Recommend a .22LR pistol for defensive purposes (I know, I know).


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benEzra
September 4, 2007, 03:59 AM
I live in North Carolina, which sometimes tries hard to be the Massachusetts of the South. NC has a wierd regulation regarding its forests; if the forest is designated a "Game Land" (as many are), then the following idiotic rule applies:

During closed seasons and closed hunting days on game birds (...) and game animals (...), it is unlawful to possess any firearm or bow and arrow readily available for use. (...) The following exceptions, however, should be noted:

--Possession is allowed on field-trial and designated target shooting areas and in camping areas for defense of person or property.

--.22-caliber pistols with barrels, not greater than 7.5 inches in length and shooting only short, long or long rifle ammunition may be carried as side arms on game lands at any time, except by hunters during the special bow-and-arrow and muzzleloading firearms deer hunting season.
So if I'm in a designated "camping area," I can have my 9mm on my person (concealed or not; I have a CHL) and the AK in the tent or in the trunk and be legal, but if I take my kids out hiking or stargazing, I'm stuck with a .22LR pistol. (I'm assuming they meant "pistol" to mean "handgun," rather than "non-revolver handgun," but given the overall stupidity of the law, who knows.) I guess the reasoning is, I don't even bother to hunt during hunting season, but if I'm allowed to carry a 3913 Ladysmith compact 9mm while stargazing with my kids out in the national forest, I will presumably be overcome with the temptation to go deer hunting with it in the middle of the night.

:banghead:

OK, to the problem at hand. If they still made Calico pistols, then a Calico .22LR with a 7" barrel would be the obvious choice, but since those are now hyper-expensive collectors' items, that's out of the question. An Intratec Tec-22 would be an option, if they actually worked, but reliability is important.

So here's my question--what's an accurate, RELIABLE defensive pistol in .22LR? How are the Ruger .22 pistols as far as reliability goes? The Walther P22 with the 5" barrel looks like a nice choice as well; how is reliability for these pistols?

Does anybody (other than Calico and Intratec) make a .22LR pistol or revolver that holds more than 10 rounds? Given that I am stuck with a short-barreled .22, the more the better.

Size is not an issue; I don't care if it's as big as an S&W X-frame or an MP5 as long as it is a ".22-caliber pistol with barrel not greater than 7.5 inches in length and shooting only short, long or long rifle ammunition."

Thanks for all the help.

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jeepmor
September 4, 2007, 04:26 AM
Beretta tomcat for small stature.

Soybomb
September 4, 2007, 05:31 AM
I think there are a few 7-10 shot da revolvers out there, s&w 617 with a 6" barrel and 10 shot cylinder. That would be my choice so that if you get one of those famous rim fire rounds that doesn't go off, another pull gets you a new one.

Action_Can_Do
September 4, 2007, 08:15 AM
The Ruger mark 3s are very accurate and dependable. They're also a pain in the a** to take apart and clean.

markmc753
September 4, 2007, 08:35 AM
Firestorm: accurate, light, durable, easy to clean

earplug
September 4, 2007, 08:56 AM
If size and weight is not A issue, the Ruger would be my choice.

Mr. Designer
September 4, 2007, 09:05 AM
I have a S&W 617 ten shot and would recommend it to anyone. I don’t use it for self-defense but if you need a .22 for defense this would be a good, reliable choice.

rchernandez
September 4, 2007, 10:17 AM
American 180...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-180
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg62-e.htm
http://www.impactguns.com/store/MGT-B01010.html



If you chop off the stock, it becomes a "pistol" :D

Marlin 45 carbine
September 4, 2007, 10:53 AM
I'll take my Taurus 94 loaded w/Velocitors. 9 shots of that is gonna do some damage.

cookekdjr
September 4, 2007, 12:16 PM
Taurus 94 if you can get it to be reliable. Lots of folks have success with these, although mine had warranty issues right out of the box. The chief benefit to these is they are j-frame sized and hold 9 shots. They are lightweight, and easy to shhot and carry. I'd load with stingers, velocitors, aguila super maximums, or similar. Use a 4 or 5 inch barrelled model to get as much velocity as possible. A S&W 617 is nice but heavy as a brick. S&W's new j-frame kit gun has a 3 inch barrel, and gives velocities about like a snub nose. Also S&W does not recommend hyper velocity for this aluminum gun. Their older steel models have only six shots. So that brings us back to the Taurus, despite the chances you may get at a lemon. At least you'll know it right out of the box and can address it then.
Good luck,

David

RandyB
September 4, 2007, 12:28 PM
Ruger Mark II or III,
Browning Buckmark

Both 10 rounders and shoot great.

Technosavant
September 4, 2007, 12:52 PM
I think there are a few 7-10 shot da revolvers out there, s&w 617 with a 6" barrel and 10 shot cylinder. That would be my choice so that if you get one of those famous rim fire rounds that doesn't go off, another pull gets you a new one.

This is what I'd do, and for that exact reason. It isn't that .22 semiautos are unreliable- there's a large number that are VERY reliable. The problem is that rimfire rounds are themselves unreliable. Some just don't go off, and it takes longer to rack the slide than it does to just pull the trigger again. As accurate and reliable as a good .22 semiauto can be, I just won't trust one defensively because of that ammo unreliability.

I'd find a 8 or 10 shot revolver with a 4-6" barrel.

Gord
September 4, 2007, 12:58 PM
I'd go with a revolver also.

My High Standard Sentinel cost me $50 and is freaky accurate out to 50 yards. 9-round cylinder, DA/SA, a little funky looking but it works. :)

Sniper X
September 4, 2007, 01:10 PM
That is such a stupid law. Here in New Mexico as long as you aren't hunting with an illegal weapon for the hunt, or not hunting if you have no license, then you can carry any weapon you want in the forest. I carry a 1911 while bow hunting, or a .357 mag, and while camping. I sometimes carry an AR if I am hunting in an area where there are Coyotes. As long as it is OK to hunt/shoot in an area, I have a Gun there!

On the .22. Any quality .22 like Ruger, or Beretta, or High Standard is great.

sm
September 4, 2007, 01:22 PM
benEzra,

I am quite familiar with this type of restriction.
Plus.
I work with physically limited folks, that have no other choice, than to use a
.22 rim-fire for defensive purposes.
Some do not have weak side hands/arms, some are under Doctors orders for NO recoil (but .22 rim-fire the exception) due to detached retina, neck/ back surgeries.

-Is there a minimum barrel length in this restriction?
Some places have a minimum of 4" barrel length, along with maximum (arrgghh! )
If not, then the Beretta 21 A, simple matte finish is best for a BUG, or Deep Conceal.
I/we do not recommend Stingers, instead for reliability the CCI high velocity loads in LRN .

-Stay away from new MKIIIs. The top end is different and every one has caused problems. I, gun person, and these folks do not trust these.

-OLDer guns, such as the Ruger MKI and MKII, are still best.
We prefer for CCW, and the folks we deal with, and introducing new shooters"
Standard Model.
Easy to tote, conceal, plenty accurate, and once the loading is found, the fixed sights are rugged.
CCI loads again and Win X22LR , are two loads that run the gun, and while not always the most accurate, accurate.

Kids : let us hope it never comes to be, still one your kids might have to use this gun. Me being me, and others like me, consider the smallest person that might have to use the gun.
Smallest not in a derogatory sense, just these Standard Models do not tire out someone as fast, and easier to shoot.

-Buckmarks, are great! Triggers are better out of box.
Again, the simple, 4" and something inch barrel.

-Colt Woodsmans, High Standards, are two other very reliable and accurate guns.
Even the "plinker" High Standard Dura-Matic, is very accurate.
This one has thumbscrew, and real easy to take down.

-Smith & Wesson 422, blue, 622 Steel.
Older steel and alloy guns.
The ones I prefer are the 4" model.
It is kind of odd, seeing the barrel "underneath".
Guns are extremely light, almost too light. Still one can forget they are CCW-ing these.
These are accurate, and super easy to take down as well.
This one was a Super great teaching tool, especially for kids .
It became real popular for physically limited folks for CCW.
Even those with hip surgeries, had no problem.

I have taken lots of squirrels , rabbits with one. I do not handgun hunt with optics/glass. Just irons.


-Revolvers : Model 18, (K frame) and the Jframe one 34, are proven!
Might be hard to find, still be easier than a Colt .22 revolver.

The 617 is a great gun, just it is big, and heavy. For CCW, and again smaller persons, the K and J frame are suggested.

-NAA Mini Revolver, is always good.
Last ditch effort with a dope head in the woods.

With a NAA, 21A for backups to whatever other choice, one can easily have 3 guns in the woods, concealed.

Proven, by me and others.

Tiny in Ohio
September 4, 2007, 01:58 PM
Why not look at a Ruger Single Six Convertable, with the .22LR and .22MAG cylinders? A quick cylindar swap, and you go from a plinking gun to a moderate self defense round. .22 caliber does not exclude the magnum, as far as I can tell. And I would rather have 6 magnums than 10 long rifles.

ceetee
September 4, 2007, 02:26 PM
I can't add much to the discussion except to say, "Don't forget the New York reload." Spare magazines are all well and good, but some .22 ammo has inconsistant recoil that can lead to stovepipe stoppages. A spare pistol on the belt of a friend may make all the difference. This can be negated by carrying a brace of revolvers...

dhoomonyou
September 4, 2007, 03:05 PM
S&W 317 kit gun
8 shots of 22LR, 3 inch barrel.

woad_yurt
September 4, 2007, 03:10 PM
Have you thought about a DA H&R revolver, like the 949 or 922 series? They're cheap, reliable and accurate. I have 923 (nickeled 922) with a 6" barrel that loves Velocitors and is very, very accurate. If you browse online auction sites, you can find one for $100-$150. For $150-$200, you could have one that is in like-new condition. After shooting thousands of rounds with them, I've never had a malfunction. They have a 9 round cylinder, too. My friend has a Walther .22 semi-auto and it jams enough to be a bother, no matter what ammo we've tried. Check out the old H&R revolvers. I wish they'd make them again.

Vern Humphrey
September 4, 2007, 03:55 PM
I gather from the wording of the law, you don't need a concealed weapon -- you can carry openly. So I'd say forget about concealment. A Ruger or Browning would do just fine.

If you're worried about the reliability of rimfire ammo, then a revolver would be the ideal choice -- mine is a Colt Officer's Model Target.

arkangel06
September 4, 2007, 04:20 PM
i sudgest a rugar mk 2 or 3 the only problem with then is miss fires happen some times maby 20% of the time so like vern said a revolver would be nice a rugar doubble action or somthing like that

cpttango30
September 4, 2007, 04:29 PM
I love my neos. But I have to agree on the revolver statement. Get a Smith 617 with a 6" barrel 10 shot and a nice holster. Then get the fastest ammo you can find out there to put in it. CCI Stinger or Rem Yellow Jackets.

FLORIDA KEVIN
September 4, 2007, 04:37 PM
try out a Berret Neos 10 rounds , 4"6"or 8" barrel ambi safety , sweet shooter

Snapping Twig
September 4, 2007, 05:00 PM
Ruger or S&W revolver, defense being your need. I have and absolutey love, a Mk II in SS with a 5.5" bull barrel, but on the odd chance you get a dud, you'd need to train to clear it under pressure. If you train, which you should since this is a defense exercise, then a Mk II would be a good selection.

Ammo selection should be a heavy bullet and TC shape if possible. You'll lose velocity in a handgun, so the ultra light hollow points might not be as effective. A flat faced slug of some weight would penetrate best.

benEzra
September 4, 2007, 05:29 PM
sm,

No minimum length, just 7" maximum. Good point about having more than one.

Tiny in Ohio--unfortunately the laws specifies short, long, or long rifle only, which rules out .22 mag. Otherwise, that'd be the logical choice.

Good point about revolvers and ammo issues, all. I was thinking in terms of pistol reliability, but I'm a centerfire guy so I wasn't even thinking about the ammunition side of things.

I think I'm going to get clarification in writing that "pistol" means "handgun" for the purpose of the law, to ensure that a revolver would be OK.

I'm also going to be writing my representatives about the silliness of this law. If the goal is to prevent poaching, a "no discharge of firearms" rule would be a lot more enforceable than a possession ban on non-pistols or non-.22's. Gunshots and/or dead deer in the back of the truck are a LOT more conspicuous than a 9mm carried concealed, as well.

Aaargh.

Thanks to everyone for the helpful replies. I am familiar with the Ruger, and have shot a stranger's S&W .22LR revolver once at the range (awesome little gun), but had never heard of a lot of the others. The Taurus certainly sits at a better price point than the S&W, judging by what they're both going for on Gunbroker. :eek:

ClarkEMyers
September 4, 2007, 05:30 PM
Dedicated .22 conversion on a 1911 frame - full capacity, can be reliable and certainly an edge on appearance.

Wilson used to catalog a classic in .22 only (no centerfire top end though a center fire top end could be added later) at a decent price - something like that would be my choice for defense

- for a kit gun anything - the S&W in an airweight or hard to find a Ruger double action revolver in .22 are good choices.

bestseller92
September 4, 2007, 05:34 PM
I cannot in good conscience recommend any .22 for defense.

If you are determined to use one, get a Ruger.

PX15
September 4, 2007, 06:16 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_5295.jpg

Firestorm FS22....

J. Pomeroy

CWL
September 4, 2007, 07:21 PM
Whatever you get, definitely get as long a barrel as you can comfortably carry. You'll need the additional velocity for such a tiny tiny round.

P. Plainsman
September 4, 2007, 08:00 PM
I gotta say, when I read the first post here and imagined myself in the poster's position, my thoughts went to the Bersa/Firestorm .22 like PX15's pic above. Just 10 rounds though.

vow
September 4, 2007, 08:10 PM
Here's my two cents on .22 rimfire. I've owned Ruger, Colt, S&W, Browning, Tarus, High Standard, H&R pistols and revolvers and they are all good. I keep reading about the unreliabilty of the .22 rimfire and I've never had one that didn't go bang whenever I pulled the trigger. When I was a little boy I had an old S&W, I believe it was a model 17 and it kept the squirrels on the table. Theres nothing wrong with a .22 rimfire as long as you can hit what you aim at. You might have to keep hitting it depending on it's size, so be it.

sm
September 4, 2007, 08:10 PM
benEzra,

Some of these "laws" are downright confusing.
Game & Fish and whomever regulates CCW - need to be made aware of such confusions.
I would get something in writing from the AG.

I've heard some regs state the gun has to be a dedicated ____, meaning one cannot use the .22 conversion.

WE are still allowed to hunt , with lights at night for Raccoons - using .22 short ammunition.

Some folks got sideways, being out with 10/22 and 1911 conversions.
This got a warning, stern one, still...

Single shot .22 rifles, Rem Speedmaster and Fieldmaster repeating rifles for etc, that do shoot .22 short, and I'd have to double check, but still if the handgun barrel was 4" or longer, and shot .22 shorts, like a revolver, these were fine to hunt Raccoons at night.
Lots of fun, with the dawgs treeing the coons.

So checking the regs of both Game & Fish, and whomever is in charge of CCW, and getting the AG to write it up, and having a hardcopy is wise .

Like they say in Real Estate: Location, Location, Location.

skeeter1
September 4, 2007, 08:41 PM
I haven't tried one (yet), but I would think the new S&W model 63 would be one that I'd look into closely. J-frame, all stainless, 8-rounds, and a 5" barrel. With a cylinder full of Velocitors, I'd feel pretty confident.

Tim L
September 5, 2007, 01:58 PM
Dedicated .22 conversion on a 1911 frame - full capacity, can be reliable and certainly an edge on appearance.

Wilson used to catalog a classic in .22 only (no centerfire top end though a center fire top end could be added later) at a decent price - something like that would be my choice for defense


kIMBER makes a .22 based on the 1911. You can't use a center fire upper on it without a lot of work as there is no ejector or feed ramp. The standard mag holds 10 rds but the Ceiner 15rd mags will work. Looking at the muzzle end of it it is hard to tell that it's only a .22.

Tim

Domino
September 5, 2007, 05:59 PM
I wouldn't recommend a Calico but they apparently are ramping up production...

http://www.calicolightweaponsystems.com/

Stick with a MkII, MkIII, or a nice compact Taurus revolver.

KevininPa
September 5, 2007, 07:09 PM
.........Buy an extra mag or two. Reliable, Accurate enough for plinkin' and SD, easy to clean.


Kevin in Pa

Fred Fuller
September 5, 2007, 08:10 PM
This one's definitely retro, but it's my all time favorite .22 rimfire- a Beretta Jaguar/70 series/70S, if you ever run across one. They haven't been made for 20 years or so but they do turn up used every so often. They are awesome little pistols.

And there are non-thumbrest grips available for the 70S, if you find one still in its GCA'68 "target pistol" garb.

lpl/nc

kgriggs8@yahoo.com
September 5, 2007, 08:15 PM
I am always surprised at the number of people that can't be bothered to read and understand the question before they post.

Anyway, .22lr is not the most reliable ammo in the first place. If you are looking to maximize reliability, I would stick with revolvers over autos. It just takes a few problems out of the equation.

Look into the S&W revolvers or if you are on a budget, the Taurus revolvers. I never recomend Taurus but there is a big price difference between the .22lr of S&W and Taurus so it may pay to look at them.

wmeSha
September 5, 2007, 10:53 PM
CZ Kadet?

mobjacker
September 6, 2007, 10:30 PM
Just bought a 22a with a 5.5 in barrel.
Wire brushed and polished the slide and action.
Just put 300 rounds of bulk through it this past weekend-

accurate, cheap, and FUN.

Sylvan-Forge
September 7, 2007, 12:07 AM
A decent revolver would be my choice.

ArchAngelCD
September 7, 2007, 02:58 AM
I would suggest a Ruger Mark II with a 5" barrel because they are not fussy about the ammo you use in it. I suggest a 5" barrel because I feel a 7" barrel is to hard to carry comfortably. A 5" barrel is probably workable and will allow the bullet to gain a lot if it's intended speed.

Since all you can carry is a .22 then you should use the best ammo you can find. I would suggest CCI Velocitor even over CCI Stingers. Even though Stingers have a velocity of 1640 fps and 191 ft/lbs of energy the projectile is only 32 gr. Velocitors fire a 40 gr projectile but still reach 1435 fps with 183 ft/lbs of energy. I would feel safer with the heavier bullet especially since it's get plenty of speed and energy.

I didn't know the law allowed you to carry a .22 pistol in a State Park. Thank you for that information.

GunTech
September 7, 2007, 09:51 AM
Anbother vote for the revolver. Unlike another poster, I have has 22 LR fail to go boom, in not one but several 22s. It's rare, but happens frequently enough to be bothersome.

I'd pick the S&W 10 shot all steel 617 six inch. I've had enough trouble with Taurus revolvers that I don't trust them.

If the 617 is too heavy, have you gunsmith mill off part of the underlug.

Yes, they are costly.

If you feel comfortable with the ruduced capacity of an old rimfire revolver, a K-22 (model 17) would be my pick. The 34 or 63 kit guns work as well, and are smaller and lighter, but you will only have a 4 inch barrel. Still, it's easy to pack a kit gun, and you can pick one up used for a easonable amount of money. And as someone else noted, a your kids could use it.

Unfortunately, model 63s are commanding a premium as they have become collectable. You can still get a nice 34 for around $400

Dave Markowitz
September 7, 2007, 10:04 AM
Damn, what a stupid law. OTH, here in PA it's illegal to carry in state parks, period.

Anyway, I would go with whatever .22 handgun you feel most comfortable with but select the longest barrel possible to wring the most velocity out of the .22 rounds. Since open carry looks like it's legal I would forgo the small guns and go for something full sized. I like the idea of a 1911 with a conversion kit -- it may give you an edge because it looks like a .45, not a mousegun, unless the potential shootee is close enough to see the muzzle.

Aside from a 1911 with a conversion kit, my first choice in an auto would be a Browning Buckmark with a Ruger second. I'll respectfully disagree with sm WRT to the Mark IIIs. We have a 22/45 Mark III that works well.

K-Frame revolvers work, and you can get speedloaders for them.

As much as I like the Ruger Single Six, I'd prefer a double action since you can't use the .22 Magnum cylinder.

When choosing ammo skip straight past the cheap bulk ammo (except for plinking) and buy CCI Mini Mag solids. CCI rimfire ammo is uniformly high quality. I can't recall ever having a dud. I would avoid HPs because penetration with a .22 LR is going to be iffy already.

It occurs to me that in addition to the pistol, a stout walking stick and/or big belt knife would be awfully good to have.

MCgunner
September 7, 2007, 10:05 AM
Revolver all the way, Smith and Wesson, Taurus. I'd probably just carry my Rossi M511 sportsman. It's only 6 shots, but it's VERY accurate and all stainless construction. It is a "kit gun", J frame size with adjustable sights and 4 inch barrel. Head shots with that thing at 25 yards is NO problem, it's a real accurate little gun. Up close, screw it in his nose and pull the trigger. That little Rossi is REAL reliable, something I cannot say about any auto regardless of price.

I do have a few autos, but I really prefer revolvers in .22 if there's any chance I have to use it for self defense, parish the thought. I've seen all manor of jams and misfires with high quality semi autos in rimfire. No thanks. And, yes, I'd use CCI ammunition for reliable ignition. This is a fact.

benEzra
September 7, 2007, 11:34 AM
What's the going rate for a Firestorm .22?

I did some Google-fu and found that the older Bersa model 23 and 223 were similar; are they any cheaper? I can't find any on Gunbroker.

I used to have a Bersa 383DA and loved it; I'd love to have the same gun in .22LR.

KevininPa
September 8, 2007, 09:50 AM
Here in NE Pa I paid around $270 ( with taxes ) with an extra mag. A lot of people complain about the price of the mags, but I've found them to be no more expensive than any other make. I ordered mine thru my gun guy, hardly ever see them on a shelf in any shop they sell so fast.


Kevin in Pa

ClarkEMyers
September 8, 2007, 10:27 AM
Jeff Cooper occasionally suggested a Walther, either PP or PPK but not PPKs - IIRC he and his daughters especially often carried one in the field. I think he emphasized precise shot placement along the lines of if you aren't carrying a 1911 then shoot for tear duct.

Seems to me Paris Theodore suggested as part of his Guttersnipe System with the off-hand eye a lay the head over rapid fire technique with the .22 - it's been suggested by others that a machinegun technique with the .22 can be almost the equivalent of a load of buckshot - 40 grain bullets being buckshot size. I'm not sure that's quite true - I think simultaneous impacts have more shock effect but then relying on shock effect is fine till it fails. I have seen live fire by an AR180 in .22 rimfire that looked like pumping a Model 12 with the trigger held back - faster than my eye could follow lots and lots and lots of suddenly empty space on the target.

EmGeeGeorge
September 8, 2007, 10:54 AM
A charter arms pathfinder in 22 mag...

or an naa mini mag in .22 mag or a black widow in the same

Bellevance
September 8, 2007, 10:57 AM
Another vote here for the S&W 617 6-inch 10-shot. Utterly reliable, durable, practical, and fun to shoot. Its perfect complement, of course, is the 686+, for those occasions when you might be permitted to make more of an impact.

TFin04
September 8, 2007, 11:54 AM
If I had to carry a 22 for defense it would be a revolver. Auto loading 22's all have reliability problems because of the nature of the 22 round. Anything from pistols to rifles, I have seen all major brands (and all of my own) jam at a pace that would completely rule them out for defensive purposes. Even the high and mighty Ruger 10/22 rifle and their 22 pistols have the same troubles, and I've shot probably over 30 different auto loading 22's in my lifetime. ALL have jammed regularly.

An alloy Smith&Wesson 8 shot 22 revolver will be much more reliable, as well as comfortable to carry.

Just my two pennies.

benEzra
September 8, 2007, 02:34 PM
Matthew,

Unfortunately, it has to be .22 short, long, or long rifle only, no magnums, per state law.

Crunker1337
September 8, 2007, 04:42 PM
I say a S&W or Taurus revolver. 10 or 9 shots respectively and highly reliable.

shooter429
September 8, 2007, 05:37 PM
The .22 LR is very dependent on barrel length to make enough power for defense. Stay away from the short BUGs as they neuter the already puny .22 to a point which renders it- well, even at point blank, I wouldn't bet my life on it lets put it that way. On the other hand, out of a rifle, it makes power enough for small game and could be pressed into defense. So, I would go with as much barrel as you can comfortably carry. Also, in this case, I would favor a good auto over a revolver because you will have a short, single action trigger and match-type barrel and sights, which make for very fast, accurate shooting. I can put 11 rds on target as fast as my buddy can get off 2 in his 9. The DA revolvers are just not as good in this department. I recommend the Browning Buckmark over the others though the Ruger Mk3 would do. If you have the money the 41 is nice enough, but my Browning makes one ragged hold at 15 yards offhand.

As far as ammunition, the debate rages. Some like Stingers, others Vipers others Aguila. I like Stingers and Velocitors in my gun.

Good luck.

Stupid laws... grumble

Shooter429

skeeter1
September 8, 2007, 08:34 PM
I would suggest CCI Velocitor even over CCI Stingers. Even though Stingers have a velocity of 1640 fps and 191 ft/lbs of energy the projectile is only 32 gr. Velocitors fire a 40 gr projectile but still reach 1435 fps with 183 ft/lbs of energy. I would feel safer with the heavier bullet especially since it's get plenty of speed and energy.


My choice of ammo for a .22 as well. Stingers are just too persnickety in some guns to be reliable, and their accuracy is always suspect. I can't think of anything bad to say about Velocitors, other than I wish they were cheaper. Oh well, you can't have it all, I guess.

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 8, 2007, 08:48 PM
Even though Stingers have a velocity of 1640 fps and 191 ft/lbs of energy the projectile is only 32 gr. Velocitors fire a 40 gr projectile but still reach 1435 fps with 183 ft/lbs of energy. I would feel safer with the heavier bullet especially since it's get plenty of speed and energy.


Out of a pistol? Not likely. You need to knock about -300-500 fps off of that which will put you at substantially less energy.

MCgunner
September 8, 2007, 09:42 PM
Quote:
Even though Stingers have a velocity of 1640 fps and 191 ft/lbs of energy the projectile is only 32 gr. Velocitors fire a 40 gr projectile but still reach 1435 fps with 183 ft/lbs of energy. I would feel safer with the heavier bullet especially since it's get plenty of speed and energy.

Out of a pistol? Not likely. You need to knock about -300-500 fps off of that which will put you at substantially less energy.

+1 Sound like rifle velocities.

I have one cheap autoloading handgun that likes stinger, actually loves the stuff, quite accurate. Also, my 10/22 loves the stuff. Amazing. Usually stinger is quite inaccurate compared to normal loads in most guns.

I mostly shoot mini mag in that 10/22, likes that, too.

cowboyneal
September 8, 2007, 10:48 PM
I carry a S&W 317 3" barrel, IWB, when I walk my dog (who has a penchant for skunks and the like). It weighs around 12oz, holds 8 rounds, and is quite accurate. I like the CCI Quikshok rounds @ 1600+fps, segmented HP bullet; they're HOT, and they work.

Josh

KevininPa
September 8, 2007, 11:28 PM
.......love the CCI rounds. Everybody talks about different forms of firearms, but CCI is always the ammo of choice. For the first time since I've owned it I had problems with my Firestorm. But as soon as I switched to the CCI Mini-Mags instead of the Rem -550 bulk pack, they went away. To be fair to the Rem-pack, the box was almost gone, so it was already cruddy. You can expect only so much.
I forget who mentioned it , but thank you for the info on the Velocitors, I never knew they were 40 grainers. Will definitely carry those on my dog-walkin' missions:). Honestly, that is one of my two dogwalkin' firearms. The other is a Bonds Arms derringer. Have a good Weekend!

Kevin in Pa

ArchAngelCD
September 8, 2007, 11:40 PM
Out of a pistol? Not likely. You need to knock about -300-500 fps off of that which will put you at substantially less energy.
Jorg,
I never said you would get those velocities from a pistol, I was stating what they were rated at. When you start 400 fps higher than other ammo even when you lose speed because of the short barrel you end up with 400 fps higher than the other. Take off 400 fps from the Velocitors you still have 1,035 fps. Take off 400 fps from CCI Mini-Mags and you end up with 835 fps. I would say the Velocitors are a good choice like I said in my first post. http://www.cci-ammunition.com/ballistics/rimfire.aspx
I forget who mentioned it , but thank you for the info on the Velocitors, I never knew they were 40 grainers.
That would be me Kevin. :) You're welcome...

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 8, 2007, 11:56 PM
I never said you would get those velocities from a pistol, I was stating what they were rated at.

Fair enough, but in a thread about pistols, it is wise to point out that those are rifle velocities and the resulting velocities and ft/lbs are substantially less out of a pistol, lest someone think that a .22LR out of a pistol approaches the muzzle energy of a more powerful cartridge when, in fact, it suffers badly from the shorter barrel.

They still would be a better choice, as you stated, but very underpowered compared to even a .380.

sundoc
September 9, 2007, 02:01 PM
I just picked up a S&W 317 .22LR w/8 shot cylinder..loaded w/ccl quik shok 32 gr HP....very light, no recoil, highly highly reliable, and very accurate in the 5-7 yd range; yes I am using it for carry/defensive use as it is all I can handle given a recent accident...

jad0110
September 9, 2007, 10:29 PM
Thanks to everyone for the helpful replies. I am familiar with the Ruger, and have shot a stranger's S&W .22LR revolver once at the range (awesome little gun), but had never heard of a lot of the others.

ben,

That may well have been me, lots of people get to shoot my S&W K-22. Do you frequent either B&R Range in Havelock or Sportsman's Lodge in Jacksonville?

For SD, I would much prefer a revolver for the same reasons others have stated: rimfire ammo unreliability, as compared to centerfire. I don't get many FTFs, but it is still just enough to give me pause about packing a rimfire auto for SD.

CajunBass
September 10, 2007, 06:05 AM
My wife's first CC handgun was a Bersa Firestorm 22. That little gun runs like a sewing machine with CCI mini-mags. She's been shooting it for years now, and I don't ever recall a misfire with that ammo. Cheap bulk ammo, yes, but not with the CCI stuff.

Since you can open carry, I'd probably go with a Ruger Mk II or III, for the longer barrel, same ammo, but that little Bersa is a good choice.

benEzra
September 10, 2007, 12:47 PM
That may well have been me, lots of people get to shoot my S&W K-22. Do you frequent either B&R Range in Havelock or Sportsman's Lodge in Jacksonville?
That was actually in Florida (I used to live near P'cola, moved back here in '03) but I do frequent B&R quite a bit. My wife and I last went there the Saturday of Labor Day weekend; I was the guy shooting playing cards with the 3913 on the pistol side, and an AK/Kobra on the rifle side.

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/uploads/1188452912/gallery_260_23_6397.jpg

:D

p35
September 10, 2007, 04:06 PM
I have a Ram-Line .22 Exactor with two 15 round magazines that's totally reliable and very light, although it's pretty large. Could be hard to find one these days- they never really caught on- but it might fit the bill. Other good choices would be the S&W .22 autos they used to make- they made some that were all aluminum framed with a 10 round mag- or maybe a Walther P22.

Vern Humphrey
September 10, 2007, 04:20 PM
I have a Ram-Line .22 Exactor with two 15 round magazines that's totally reliable
The issue goes beyond the reliability of the gun to addresss the reiliability of the ammunition. Rimfire ammo tends to have a disproportionate percentage of misfires.

Thor Bloodax
September 10, 2007, 04:37 PM
SM said on Sept 4

"I work with physically limited folks, that have no other choice, than to use a
.22 rim-fire for defensive purposes.
Some do not have weak side hands/arms, some are under Doctors orders for NO recoil (but .22 rim-fire the exception) due to detached retina, neck/ back surgeries."

That concerns me. I have had detached retinas in both eyes so I no longer shoot shot guns or big centerfire rifles. I do shoot all calibers of handguns including .357 Mag, .45 ACP and .45 Colt. What sort of risk is that?

Old Tom

6_gunner
September 10, 2007, 06:16 PM
Ruger MkII or Single Six.

V-fib
September 10, 2007, 10:19 PM
my ccw is a 642 with CT laser grips. Around the homestead cutting firewood,chores or whatever its my Taurus 94 snub .22lr with CT grips of course. I've never had a single problem with the Taurus. :cool:

Gun Slinger
September 10, 2007, 10:42 PM
ben,

After considering all posts herein and the many thoughtful suggestions offered, my thoughts center upon recommending that you acquire either a used S&W K-22 or a used/new Ruger Mk II w/5" barrel. Finding a new Ruger Mk II is not impossible as of yet with a little looking about.

The new, but certainly not improved, Ruger Mk III's are troublesome little gadgets in my practical experience as well as in the experience of two of my closest friends who would rather cuss them than discuss them. The Mk III's are a "flop" in my opinion, take it as you may.

Unfortunately, it may be even more difficult to find, let alone acquire, a used S&W K-22 as those that have 'em don't wanna part with 'em, at least not without some decent outlay in exchange.

Should you end up with either one, I would load it with the fastest 40 grain solid out of the tube on your particular gun as expansion and velocity will certainly not be optimal from the short barrel and you might as well go for what you can get, which in this case, is penetration.

Nice shooting, ben.

Good luck,

G/S

Tim L
September 11, 2007, 03:40 PM
The issue goes beyond the reliability of the gun to addresss the reiliability of the ammunition. Rimfire ammo tends to have a disproportionate percentage of misfires.

Vern got it exactly right. 99% of the problems I have had with my rimfire guns is ammo related. What ever gun you choose try as many brands of ammo as you can. Some brands have multiple problems per magazine while others have been 100% reliable.

Tim

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 11, 2007, 04:11 PM
I note that the regulation the OP quoted simply says "22-caliber pistols with barrels, not greater than 7.5 inches in length and shooting only short, long or long rifle ammunition", not ".22 caliber rimfire" pistols. So I say you tote this bad-boy on your next hiking trip:

http://www.bushmaster.com/images/catalog/c15_zoom/AZ-C15P97S.jpg

The barrel is only 7.25", and the 22-caliber ammo looks "long" to me.

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