Why open carry?


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davinci
September 4, 2007, 06:38 PM
I'm a concealed carry license holder. From my understanding, in all but a handful of states there is a way to get a Concealed Carry license. This makes me wonder, why would anyone Open Carry a pistol if you could conceal it?

In my head, I see no pro's to Open Carry a firearm in public except for getting America more accepting that guns aren't just for bad guys. That's about all I see as a good reason to Open Carry, but I think that fact can be proven more effectively with statistics.

As cons, I see that it would make an Open carrier a target for a bad guy because you are an obvious threat to them getting away with the crime. Also, it may strike some folks that you want to be a hero if trouble comes up or that you're ready to start a gunfight if the occasion arises...at least that's what it strikes me as.

Like I said, I'm a CC holder. I've honestly thought about it many times myself, and I wouldn't even draw on a fella who wanted my wallet at gunpoint. He can pull the trigger a lot faster than I can draw and fire, no way around that...and my wallet isn't worth getting shot over. If he KNEW that I had a gun, he 1) may decide not to rob me or 2) decide that I have a shinier gun than him and mug me from behind or simply shoot me and take my pistol. After all, good guns are expensive to legal folks, and very expensive to felonious folks. I've read an article recently about a thug who killed a man because he had a propane torch and HVAC supplies in his pickup that he was going to use to make crack pipes with.

Please be respectful. These are MY thoughts and opinions and I'm not trying to invite disrespectful controversy, only opinions and thoughts of your own as to why or why not Open Carry a sidearm in public places.

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jobu07
September 4, 2007, 06:41 PM
In my head, I see no pro's to Open Carry a firearm in public except for getting America more accepting that guns aren't just for bad guys.

Or police officers, security guards, or anyone else who man "professionally" carry a sidearm. Isn't that reason alone worth it?

CajunBass
September 4, 2007, 06:48 PM
Because it's a pain in the butt to keep worrying "Is it covered? Is it showing?" To heck with it. I just leave it uncovered. I've got a CHP for those days when it is half covered.

Glockman17366
September 4, 2007, 06:54 PM
I carry concealed...but not open yet. It is legal to open carry in PA.
I do agree the most valuable aspect of open carry is the cultural...meaning exposing folks that not all non-LEO gun carriers are BGs or gang bangers.
Of course, the other advantage is one can carry a larger handgun without worrying if it's printing. One disadvantage is you lose a tactical advantage...the BG knows who his first target is.

The biggest problem I see with OC is how one handles situations in which folks are intimidated. Good chance to educate someone...also a good chance to get arrested by an LEO not up to speed with the laws. No matter if you're ultimately released...getting arrested by a nervous cop (or cops) won't be a happy experience!

I live pretty close to the PA/MD line. When I decide to OC, it'll not be too close to MD. I know most of them would be frightened.

I do commend those folks who OC regularly though. In fact, the Lancaster, PA newspaper did an article on a man who regularly OC'd.

ptmmatssc
September 4, 2007, 06:57 PM
I have a permit and both cc as well as oc . I have had times that I oc where people will stop me and ask questions. I use that as a good time to inform and maybe enlighten others about responsible firearms ownership and the advantages of such . I seem to remember that people many years ago open carried all the time and it didn't make them "targets" . Today , the people that tend to target those that oc are law enforcement , not criminals , and for different reasons. If open carry made people such targets , then why are more cops not getting their weapons taken from them? Goes along with the " a criminal will just take your gun from you and use it on you " .

Sistema1927
September 4, 2007, 07:12 PM
Why open carry?

Because choices are great. Freedom is great.

Why should anyone dictate how I carry my weapons?

Mainsail
September 4, 2007, 07:17 PM
I open carry for comfort and convenience. The hand-wringers will tell you that the criminals are going to target you because of your firearm, only they will not be able to cite a single time it has ever happened.

The truth of the matter is that criminals are cowards. If they see your pistol they will go look for easier pickings. Would you, as a good citizen, intentionally walk into a situation where it is likely you’d be engaged by a person with a firearm? No, of course not. They don’t want to die any more than you do.

zoom6zoom
September 4, 2007, 07:24 PM
Because in Virginia I can open carry without having to get permission from the government to exercise my Constitutionally protected rights.

www.opencarry.org

Glockman17366
September 4, 2007, 07:28 PM
"The hand-wringers will tell you that the criminals are going to target you because of your firearm, only they will not be able to cite a single time it has ever happened."

True...I can't recall any such incident. However, there is a pretty distinct possibility of that happening...and, I'm not going to draw down over the $5-$10 I normally carry in my wallet.
Frankly, in my area...I'd be more concerned about getting busted by the cops (even if it's a bad bust..and, don't go there about suing the pants off them. The odds are it'll be tossed out as frivolous). I just don't know if I want the potential hassles.

It also depends on how urban your area is. I'm fairly rural, but do most my shopping in a more suburban area.

So, I suppose the next question is, of you guys who OC, where do you do it? A city...large town...rural area?

GhostlyKarliion
September 4, 2007, 07:30 PM
summed up nicely already, if it is a choice then choose to exercise it, no better way to educate the public on the values of firearms and marksmanship than to expose them to guns on a regular basis.

the more your gun is seen the more exposure guns will have in general, and that is always good. :)

dstorm1911
September 4, 2007, 07:38 PM
In the southern end of Arizona a BG doesn't have just 1 honest citizen to deal with, The Mac donalds down the street from us that I run up to for lunch has at least 10-15 citizens with sidearms in plain view generally everytime I'm in there, as far as cops and false arrests etc.. well the sight of sidearms in holsters is so common they don't even think twice bout it the ones who get the extra attention are the ones with the extra bulge, belt pulled to one side etc...

bout 10 years ago we had a couple cops ambushed by gang bamgers visiting from Calif. they killed one officer and had the other pinned down under his cruiser it was 3 armed civilians who bailed him outa the bad spot......

around this end of Arizona the sight of openly carried guns is as common as women wearin blouses....... and when an officer makes a traffic stop he already knows theres a very good chance the occupants are armed... they don't get excited or nervous etc...

the badguys will usually look for the easier target that doesn't appear to be armed around here as the other aspect of everyone carryin is that most of the BGs know that individual also most likally gets alot of practice as well........ I get comments alot from folks bout how clearly my handguns have been used ALOT as the steel guns have very little finish on the back of the grips the Polymere XDs have handall jrs and the finish wore off the grip safty and the slide from regular use...... now a brand new shiny gun usually tells em its owned by someone who doesn't use it much odds are 50/50 on bein able to take em.........

Bad news if they guess wrong and I just happened to have bought a new gun :D the most important aspect is how ya carry yourself... if your not payin attention to your surroundings are walkin around lookin at your toes etc... well then yea ya are labeling yourself as a target regardless of concealed or open carried and ya will be a prime target.........

I've walked into businesses and had someone whom I know was scoutin the place just leave when they notice me lookin at em, I have alota friends on both sides of the fence lawful and outlaws that was how we kept from gettin cleaned out when I lived in town, we used to run a business that specialized in cleaning out drug infested and gang infested mobile home parks etc... our first step was to make sure everyone understood we were serious as we'd roll through with 7-8 repo wreckers the day the contract was signed and tow every un-registered, disabled vehicle 2 men per truck both armed one would watch while the other hooked up the vehicle etc.. the next step was to start legal proceedings to evict all over due renters as soon as the court order came through mobile home totors rolled in and removed the houses..... no pad locking doors etc... its simply gone....

I got a reputation for not backin down and most respected that, a few are still servin prison terms who didn't, myself and all my guys made alota friends in that world who helped educate us about exactly what was going through a BGs mind............ the biggest thing the guy is looking for is the target who is not looking him in the face, the one who is busy with kids rather than surroundings, and don't make the mistake of thinkin cops are the only ones trained to spot a CW crooks dwell on learning what to look for because you as his target are confident that it can't be spotted...... he is going to pin your strong hand as he places a weapon into your ribs........ hopefully it won't be your own gun.... the person who is alert to surroundings isn't going to allow him the opportunity to act, your also more apt to be ready to draw and fire as soon as ya spot a threat while the threat must keep his intentions and weapons concealed until the moment he is going to act........ if your alert to whats going on and have an openly carried sidearm in a quality holster ya can rest your hand close to it without acting like John wayne giving you a huge edge over the BG who is already nerouse and worried etc... if your gun is concealed ya will have to either risk the clothing slowing ya down or giveaway that ya are armed..........

I really love those folks who in an effort to totally conceal a weapon place it so far outa sight that they themselves don't have ready access to it....... ya'll aren't a threat to the BG ya will however giveaway the fact your carryin with your body language etc.. while ya try and decide the best way to get that glock outa your underwear alertin the BG that ya most likally have a weapon he could sell......

And BTW stolen guns are CHEAP to those who can't buy legally not more expensive...... I used to get offers all the time to buy some really nice guns at 1/4 their retail value for used I always know they are hot and just politely pass ..........

RangerHAAF
September 4, 2007, 08:07 PM
I'm a concealed carry permit holder and I'm an advocate for open carry; the reason being is that I carry a shotgun in a rifle rack in my truck and I just oftentimes don't feel like carrying my 44 S&W 29 around in a holster because the thing does get heavy. It's not a question to me as to whether or not I'm seen carrying; I think open carry is a deterrent, per se; but I know it may unnerve your average civilian so I keep my pistol concealed.

On the other hand, I want any and every potential attacker and law enforcement officer that I may encounter to know that I'm armed, so the tag on my truck reads GUNLUVR; this is in addition to having my windows tinted down to 2% tint, which is almost impossible to see into, as well as the various NRA stickers, etc.

ArfinGreebly
September 4, 2007, 08:17 PM
One of our goals -- to borrow a phrase from Oleg -- is to make the keeping and bearing of arms so commonplace as to be unremarkable.

"Nice shoes. Who makes your holster? Goes well with your tie."

"Hi, I'm Sally and I'll be your waitress. Oh, it's you, Mr. Franklin -- I almost didn't recognize you with that new pistol. That's a Kimber, right?"

"And so I was talking with Sandy's teacher yesterday, and she says she's just plain tired of trying to carry a revolver, and she's switching to a Millennium Pro."

"Will those boarding Flight 1320 please double check to make sure their loaded ammo is all frangible. Repeat, frangible ammo is required on this flight. Replacement ammo can be purchased at the kiosk just before the gates. Thank you for your cooperation."


Unremarkable.

Open carry? Why sure. Why not?

Floppy_D
September 4, 2007, 08:39 PM
Because I live in Norfolk. :)

Joshua C
September 4, 2007, 08:52 PM
I would open carry, seeing as I'm 20, one year shy of being able to get the state CCDW permit. But, I feel the eyes of the world upon me. But, I still OC'd my 9mm down to the end of the holler and back earlier.

SJG26
September 4, 2007, 09:57 PM
I'm not a "they will take it from you" gang---but you know you're a good guy---the bad guy will try what he can---for all of you the open carry-----OFTEN----how do you handle weapons retention and level 1-2-3 etc - or do you at all??

General Geoff
September 4, 2007, 10:05 PM
Never had anyone try to take my weapon away from me, and only one person ever even comment on it (at a Wachovia bank in Catasauqua). *shrug*


I have had a few unscrupulous characters begin to approach me, get a bug-eyed look while staring at my midsection area, and briskly walk the other way.

Standing Wolf
September 4, 2007, 10:18 PM
America needs to see lots of armed, law-abiding citizens carrying openly, peaceably, and to good civic purpose.

Those who are afraid to exercise our civil rights don't still have them.

shadowalker
September 5, 2007, 12:17 AM
I have been carrying concealed 79 hours a week for the past two years, last month I've started open carrying about 80% of the time, there are places that I carry concealed, not because I am required to do so but because I feel it a good idea. Even in Walmart in Boise I haven't had a single problem, people have been far more friendly.

I carry in a level 2 retention holster most the time but do also open carry in my normal CCW holster, awareness of where people are, and what they are doing is the most important thing. The bad guy not knowing you have a firearm on your hip does you no good if he takes you down with a punch you didn't see coming.

I considered the reasons I wanted to open carry carefully and decided I didn't have a good reason not to open carry other than other people being offended.

I have open carried to Babies R Us, Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Lowes, Star Bucks, Burlington Coat Factory, Cabelas, Fred Meyers, mini storage, an auto parts store and almost every other local store and have yet to have a single problem. An employee at Burlington Coat Factory asked me help her to move an item to a higher shelf.

tkendrick
September 5, 2007, 12:33 AM
I guess I'm from the old school. I've never understood why anyone would conceal carry when open carry was legal.

Davinci and I must be about 180 degrees apart on this subject.

I travel in some very rough neighborhoods from time to time. I've had obvious gang-bangers eye-ball my truck then suddenly turn and beat feet when they realise I have a large (generally a 1911 or a Ruger Blackhawk) pistol in the holster on my hip.

Most BG's IMHO are at heart moral and physical cowards. They're not going to intentionally go head to head with someone they think may be able to hurt them.

Of course, here in AZ, it's not usually going to draw more than a second look (because they're curious to see what you're packing) from most folks, even in Phoenix.

Titan6
September 5, 2007, 12:39 AM
Why not? I don't get it. What is the big advantage of concealed carry? Especially when you can do both at the same time.

JesseL
September 5, 2007, 12:48 AM
Out for a stroll this evening with my wife and baby, someone noticed my open carried Blackhawk .41 Mag. He just smiled, nodded, and said "There's a safe family".

Geronimo45
September 5, 2007, 12:51 AM
I guess I'm from the old school. I've never understood why anyone would conceal carry when open carry was legal.
Maybe 'cause you live in a state that gets awfully hot?

Let me tell you about heat and Texas. People often become dehydrated walking across a parking lot to their car. We have more water fountains than people. After about four minutes in mid-August heat, your eyes start to boil. Sweat comes off you in buckets. That's why we have high humidity. Your lungs feel like you've been breathing in napalm. You're not. That's the breeze.

And that's the truth.... more or less. In other words, it gets really hot here, and carrying concealed usually involves an extra garment to do the concealing. Extra clothes are nice in winter. Not in summer.

Thegungal
September 5, 2007, 12:53 AM
Why shouldnt free people have the right? I have to put up with all manner of things I dont care for...pushed in my face by special interests.

Old Dog
September 5, 2007, 12:58 AM
Ah, t'would be be a great thing if open carry could again become unremarkable, such as it was for the first century and half or so of our country's existence. I like Arfin's vision, yet I fear the national spirit, such as it is, has devolved to such a low point where too many have lost the understanding of what it means to be able to defend themselves and their own families ... nothing new there, we've flogged that dead horse unmercifully.

At any rate, I disagree somewhat with these statements:
The truth of the matter is that criminals are cowards.
Most BG's IMHO are at heart moral and physical cowards. They're not going to intentionally go head to head with someone they think may be able to hurt them.
There's a new breed of bad guy out there, folks, and if you don't understand this, you have truly not been paying attention. Many of our young gangbangers have been in more firefights that most law enforcement officers, and they will go head to head even if they know their target may be armed. Then you've got the legions of dangerous mentally ill offenders out there who simply don't know and don't care. And I've personally seen what a hardcore tweaker on a five-day meth binge can do when out of his mind.

Your pretty Nighthawk Talon in its sharkskin-trimmed Mitch Rosen rig won't make everyone back away ...

Mainsail: I take it you haven't tried open carry in Pike Place or Hilltop in Tacoma? I'd kinda like to know if you've been able to carry openly anywhere this side of the Cascades ....

countertop
September 5, 2007, 01:16 AM
Why would you want to ask permission from the government to carry concealed?

Mainsail
September 5, 2007, 01:46 AM
Mainsail: I take it you haven't tried open carry in Pike Place or Hilltop in Tacoma? I'd kinda like to know if you've been able to carry openly anywhere this side of the Cascades ....

Pikes Place? Yes. Iíve carried openly into REI Seattle a number of times as well.

Hilltop? Tonight in fact. I visit Pincheís over on 6th and Sprague often.

Iíve open carried in Seattle, Tacoma, Tukwila, and Federal Way, but mostly in Tacoma -since I live here.

RockyMtnTactical
September 5, 2007, 01:52 AM
I often open carry out in the wilderness. Mostly because it's more comfortable... and slightly easier to reach for.

tkendrick
September 5, 2007, 03:02 AM
Let me tell you about heat and Texas.


What was it The Duke said? "If I hear another Texican brag about drinking water from a muddy hoof print.....":evil:


My Momma was from Texas.....but she got over it:neener:

ShooterMcGavin
September 5, 2007, 04:30 AM
I don't open carry mainly because I am afraid of uninformed cops. I think I read about someone in WA spending a lot of money to defend himself against charges for open carrying. It was legal all along.

Also, I think OCing would freak a few people out around here. I have friends who know that I carry, and even they get a little quiet when they see the gun on my hip. I don't lose sleep if my gun can be spotted as I exit the car or whatever.

I would like an OWB retention holster, just to have the OC-option.

Mainsail, I'm surprised but I think that's great you OC all around here.

Cannonball888
September 5, 2007, 09:46 AM
Because a smaller CC pocket pistol won't stop elephant, rhinosaurus or dinosaur crackheads. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b6UJsfTAnA









How about open rifle carry?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1116/898456928_527885ffc2.jpg?v=0

davinci
September 5, 2007, 10:14 AM
well, 12 hours after my original post High Roaders have responded 30 times.
The only real sensable argument, in my opinion, is the argument of gun familiarity to make the 2nd amendment commonplace enough to make carrying commonplace.

My concerns remain, and I will always conceal my weapons. Just as I have the right to free speech and I don't go up to men and say "Comb your hair, pull up your pants." I choose to keep my right to defend myself as neutral as possible among the general public, for the exact same reason...I do not wish to be considered offensive so I don't wear my rights on my sleeve for each and every occasion that I can. I could give an example and say something like "The economy was on an extreme upswing under President Clinton's administration. I find Clinton to be a solid leader." But, nobody would be offended by that, and it wouldn't invite controversy I'm sure.

Another argument is for the folks who don't want to open carry. When criminals know that 10% of the folks in your state have a concealed carry permit, they're going to think "which one of these guys is armed?" before they do their dirty deeds. If we all start open carrying, and we manage to get 10% involvement, all they have to do is look around for folks with holsters before they kidnap a child from a playground. With more concealed carry, there's no way for them to know that a TEACHER doesn't have a pistol... with the state of schools being what it is, teachers should probably be required to carry guns. What about suburban areas where crimes are committed? Just looking at the folks in the grocery store on a wednesday morning tells him that the registers are free for the taking, whereas under concealed carry, even the guy behind the counter may be packing... and if he's open carrying, I don't think it's going to stop the bad guy from putting a bullet in him first then getting another, unarmed, clerk to clear the cash drawer for him.

Also, I would like to note that my belief is that 99.9% of human beings have a genuine moral fiber. They aren't against you, they're just more for themselves...they call the police because an exposed holster on a fella makes them think "man with a gun!" I've heard that on the police scanner before, "man with a gun, 1200 N. Washington." I've even seen it on COPS on TV before. not like it's a crime necessarily, but it will get police attention is that argument I'm making.

These are my thoughts on the subject, that's why I started this thread. The reasons don't outweigh the risks, the imposition on society nor the intelligence a criminal can gather by just looking around before making an attack. Like I said before, most people are good hearted folks, and if we start arming good hearted folks, it only takes a few "I just couldn't pull the trigger!" before the criminals call our bluff. Not too mention how worthless a pistol is to an unarmed criminal. Just because you see a man pick up a kid and run off with her doesn't mean he isn't her father...and you could just as easily shoot him as a kidnapper.

I'll start another thread for that, it needs to be addressed.

Cannonball888
September 5, 2007, 10:22 AM
The only real sensable argument, in my opinion, is the argument of gun familiarity to make the 2nd amendment commonplace enough to make carrying commonplace.
davinci , if it is sensible to you, then why do you follow your statement with only arguments to the contrary?

Kimber1911_06238
September 5, 2007, 10:25 AM
I wish I could open carry. I have a concealed carry permit, but if my pistol even "prints" through my clothing I can have my permit taken away and/or fined, who knows what else. Open carry would be so much easier, more comfortable, and not have to worry about breaking the law simply by bending over. I wish all states had open carry allowed!!!

30 cal slob
September 5, 2007, 10:39 AM
just because you see someone open carrying, doesn't mean they don't have a concealed weapon somehwere else. :evil:

anyhoo, i live in a state where open carry is technically legal, but in practice frowned upon by LEO and the body politic. too close to Noo Yawk City. :barf:

We are urged to CCW.

Anyways, I OC in places like PA and VA because I really do believe in cultural desensitization.

Also, CCW does kinda suck when it is hot out.

CajunBass
September 5, 2007, 12:00 PM
My concerns remain, and I will always conceal my weapons.

I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood something. Who is trying to make you uncover your weapons?

Picknlittle
September 5, 2007, 12:09 PM
Tennessee's permit is just called a carry permit. Open and concealed carry is perfectly acceptable. I get hot pretty quickly. Another layer of clothing isn't a thing I want to have to consider. At this time I don't have a carry permit, but plan to have in the next few of months.

I can see open carry being a norm for me because I wear shorts and short sleeves 75% of the year. I also carry a lot of crap in my pockets.

I ever I should have to present a firearm, I certainly don't want to be fumbling with my sweaty, sticky pockets and clothing to get to it.

JohnKSa
September 5, 2007, 12:22 PM
"The hand-wringers will tell you that the criminals are going to target you because of your firearm, only they will not be able to cite a single time it has ever happened."I can.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/reports/reports2006/073106robNewtonPatton.htm

A man open carrying a handgun had is stolen from him
Man robbed in the Centreville area

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victimís head. The suspects took the victimís hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspectís then fled the area. The victim was not injured.

The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

Anyone with information about this incident or these suspects is asked to call Crime Solvers at 1-866-411-TIPS (8477) or the police non-emergency number at 703-691-2131.

Joshua C
September 5, 2007, 12:25 PM
Cannonball, where is that pic from?

Anyway, I think I've a friend whose OC'd a shotgun before.

Cannonball888
September 5, 2007, 12:29 PM
Cannonball, where is that pic from?
Some teenage girls buying ice cream in Israel.


Everyone in Israel serves 2 years mandatory military service including females.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1184/634258414_cc12607b69.jpg?v=0

Ala Dan
September 5, 2007, 01:00 PM
First, let me start off by saying that it is legal to carry openly in the State
Of Alabama; see AG opinion #84-00205, by then AG Charles Graddick.

Ever since the 9-11 incident, more Americans seemed "spooked" [for the
lack of a better term] at seeing any person who is carrying openly. Even
plainclothed police officers are scrutinized, until the American public views
a shield which is usually (in most cases) worn on the belt. A law abiding
citizen who holds a valid CCW license [but is not a police officer] comes
under more scrunity. Persons unfamiliar with Alabama's AG opinion, might
just dial 911; upon seeing a legally armed citizen in public? Then you will
have the hassle of explaining that you are excercising your priviledge to
be a lawful member of the armed society.

I do open carry within the gun shop to deter theft, robbery, etc. Also,
I usually open carry when going to and from the local police department
firing range; otherwise, I want to keep the element of surprise on my
side so I carry concealed~! :scrutiny:;)

Joshua C
September 5, 2007, 01:09 PM
Some teenage girls buying ice cream in Israel.


Thought so.

Mainsail
September 5, 2007, 01:17 PM
Here in WA, open carry is legal because there is no law that makes it illegal. The courts agree. This is interesting reading (http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/pdf/35333-4.07.doc.pdf)on the subject of open carry and people calling the police when they see it.

WayneConrad
September 5, 2007, 01:45 PM
Because if you have to ask permission, you're not exercising a right.

Because rights which are not exercised go away.

Because it should be seen that "civilized" and "armed" are not mutually exclusive states.

Because straightening your hair and putting on white makeup does not combat prejudice.

Geronimo45
September 5, 2007, 01:49 PM
What was it The Duke said? "If I hear another Texican brag about drinking water from a muddy hoof print....."
We've cleaned up our air and water since then. We prefer 'murky hoof prints' nowadays. :neener:

kurtmax
September 5, 2007, 02:39 PM
I don't understand why there is such a rift between concealed and open carry people. I know some CCW holders that thing OC is terrible.

I was about to respond with that case in VA of the guy getting his gun taken, but it seems it's already been posted.

I think the major advantage of OC, is that in most states it doesn't require a permit to do. In addition, it allows a person who is 18+ to carry (Most CCWs are issued at 21+).

I think it's nice to have options. Sometimes you might want to OC, sometimes you might want to conceal. Maybe you just want to not worry about printing and loosing your permit. Does it really matter what the reason is?

Also, be careful in Alabama. While it's not illegal to OC, you will be arrested for it (normally they will make up a disorderly conduct charge once they realize you haven't broken any laws). You also can't carry in a vehicle, concealed or not, without a permit.

Here's a recent case: http://www.al.com/press-register/stories/index.ssf?/base/news/1184750741307550.xml&coll=3

Sean P. Costello, who lives near the Freeman family, said Monday that his gardener spotted Freeman with the rifle about 6 p.m. Friday walking along

Oakwood and Dilston lanes. Freeman did not point the rifle at anyone or threaten anyone, Costello said.

Why the DC charge? Because the gardener felt threatened, not that the gardener was threatened...

ShooterMcGavin
September 5, 2007, 02:39 PM
The only real sensable argument, in my opinion, is the argument of gun familiarity to make the 2nd amendment commonplace enough to make carrying commonplace.
-What about the responses regarding one's comfort while carrying in very hot weather? Personally, I value my comfort.
-What about OCing so that you don't have to worry about printing or flashing? A side note: I imagine onlookers would be more spooked to see a concealed handgun flashed, rather than to see someone openly displaying their sidearm. OCing gives people the impression "I don't care if you see my gun (so there's a better liklihood I am legal)". Again, OCing might make the carryier more comfortable.

-What about the ease of access to your gun, as a reason to OC? If I am walking through a dark parking lot and I want to be best prepared, I can see a reason to pull my shirt back away from my handgun.

Is the 2nd Amendment the ONLY sensible reason you have heard thus far?

*editted because I like this reason too*:
I think the major advantage of OC, is that in most states it doesn't require a permit to do.

30 cal slob
September 5, 2007, 02:41 PM
I don't understand why there is such a rift between concealed and open carry people. I know some CCW holders that thing OC is terrible.

Yeah. +1.

Old Dog
September 5, 2007, 03:30 PM
Here in WA, open carry is legal because there is no law that makes it illegal.
While this is true ...
The courts agree.
... and this may be also ...

it's all a matter of how the existing RCWs and city ordinances are interpreted and enforced. Unfortunately, if one persists in attempting open carry in W.WA (regrettably over-populated by far too many Birkenstock-wearing, latte-sipping fools who still haven't removed the Kerry bumperstickers from their Volvos) one should be prepared for the inevitable intervention by the local gendarmerie.

I still want to see someone in civilian clothing, no badge displayed, walk end to end through Pike Place Market at 2:00 p.m. on a Saturday afternoon with a Condition 1 1911 worn in a low-riding Western-style holster ... What was that old sci-fi B-movie with the young Steve McQueen where hundreds of folks ran screaming out of the theater on to the street? I could see that happening ...

The only real sensable argument, in my opinion, is the argument of gun familiarity to make the 2nd amendment commonplace enough to make carrying commonplace.I dunno, the practicality aspect of open-carry over concealed-carry in many situations makes sense to me.

I don't understand why there is such a rift between concealed and open carry people. Not a rift, but issues of P.C. aside, it's just a difference in opinions as far as which mode is more tactically advantageous

Mat, not doormat
September 5, 2007, 03:30 PM
Less stress from worrying about whether or not it's covered? Less chance of heatstroke? Can more easily carry more of a fighting handgun than the general run of overpowered and undersized CC pistols? I think there are more good reasons than just 2A. But, do what you want.

~~~Mat

shadowalker
September 5, 2007, 03:31 PM
Just some good hearted questions, it seems like most your points apply to having a firearm at all.

Also, I would like to note that my belief is that 99.9% of human beings have a genuine moral fiber.

I agree most people are not direct threats most of the time, the 1% of people who will kill you for you for no reason is the reason I carry. Also if things turn bad and it comes down to survival good people will do what is needed to survive.

Like I said before, most people are good hearted folks, and if we start arming good hearted folks, it only takes a few "I just couldn't pull the trigger!" before the criminals call our bluff.

This would apply to anyone with a firearm, even those who just have bed side guns and don't carry at all, who should be allowed to have guns?

Further who is bluffing? If my weapon is pointed at someone it is because they pose a direct and immediate threat, I believe them to have the ability, opportunity and intent to cause me or someone else great physical harm, there is no bluff.

Not too mention how worthless a pistol is to an unarmed criminal. Just because you see a man pick up a kid and run off with her doesn't mean he isn't her father

A pistol isn't worthless against an unarmed criminal, there is disparity of force, size differences, and certain crimes that authorize lethal force such as rape. In the state of Idaho it doesn't say the bad guy has to be armed with anything, only that a reasonable person would believe that great physical harm or death is imminent.

Whether to engage or not affects everyone, it affects concealed carry people, LEO, even unarmed bystanders. A good training class and reviewing the laws gives a lot more perspective on if and when to intervene in a third party situation.

Another argument is for the folks who don't want to open carry. When criminals know that 10% of the folks in your state have a concealed carry permit, they're going to think "which one of these guys is armed?" before they do their dirty deeds. If we all start open carrying, and we manage to get 10% involvement, all they have to do is look around for folks with holsters before they kidnap a child from a playground. With more concealed carry, there's no way for them to know that a TEACHER doesn't have a pistol.

This is security through obscurity which is proven to be a falsity. OC and CC aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not going to rely on the BG not knowing if I'm armed or not to protect me, even with 10% CCW there is still a 90% chance the person isn't armed, pretty good odds for the bad guy.

JesseL
September 5, 2007, 03:45 PM
It's interesting to note that in nature, most creatures that are equipped with deadly defensive tools aren't shy about making it known (think brightly colored insects, fish, amphibians, and mushrooms).

There may be a lesson there about the value of a visible deterrent reducing the need for (and risks of) using your weapon.

bulgron
September 5, 2007, 04:07 PM
I think that if there must be permits, there should only be carry permits, and let the individual decide if they want to OC or CC. The big reason why is because of "printing" laws and other stupidity such as the california statute that says a weapon is concealed if any portion of it is concealed. These kind of things are just designed to harass legal firearm owners.

In most of the country, law abiding private citizens have the legal right to walk around armed. The wailing and fearful in America need to just get over their silly little panic attack on that issue.

kurtmax
September 5, 2007, 04:27 PM
It's interesting to note that in nature, most creatures that are equipped with deadly defensive tools aren't shy about making it known (think brightly colored insects, fish, amphibians, and mushrooms).

There may be a lesson there about the value of a visible deterrent reducing the need for (and risks of) using your weapon.

I've never thought of this before. Good point.

Mainsail
September 5, 2007, 05:25 PM
it's all a matter of how the existing RCWs and city ordinances are interpreted and enforced. Unfortunately, if one persists in attempting open carry in W.WA (regrettably over-populated by far too many Birkenstock-wearing, latte-sipping fools who still haven't removed the Kerry bumperstickers from their Volvos) one should be prepared for the inevitable intervention by the local gendarmerie.

Washington has full preemption over firearms laws. That certainly doesnít mean that the police wonít try to enforce some preempted law, but itís not likely. No city or county can ban firearms anywhere the state hasnít already. There are several parks that are posted ĎNo Firearmsí and even include a city or county code, but the police cannot enforce it. Several parks have removed the prohibition from their signs because of complaints. Every police officer I've spoken to so far knows OC is legal.

I still want to see someone in civilian clothing, no badge displayed, walk end to end through Pike Place Market at 2:00 p.m. on a Saturday afternoon with a Condition 1 1911 worn in a low-riding Western-style holster ... What was that old sci-fi B-movie with the young Steve McQueen where hundreds of folks ran screaming out of the theater on to the street? I could see that happening ...

Do you want to back this one up? If you supply the 1911 and holster, Iíll carry through Pike Place end to end twice. If the people donít go running and screaming, I get to keep the gun. Deal? :D

30 cal slob
September 5, 2007, 05:33 PM
It's interesting to note that in nature, most creatures that are equipped with deadly defensive tools aren't shy about making it known (think brightly colored insects, fish, amphibians, and mushrooms).

There may be a lesson there about the value of a visible deterrent reducing the need for (and risks of) using your weapon.

Okay. That might explain why I've been OC'ing with my HK Mk23 Socom tucked into a Safariland thigh holster.

:neener:

JesseL
September 5, 2007, 05:41 PM
Okay. That might explain why I've been OC'ing with my HK Mk23 Socom tucked into a Safariland thigh holster.:neener:

I saw a guy at the customer service counter of my local supermarket carrying a rig very much like that.

Some posters here might be surprised to learn that none of the other shoppers seemed to find him particularly remarkable, and nobody ran away screaming :neener:

James T Thomas
September 5, 2007, 05:49 PM
I had been aware of the reasoning posted here; that it is a deterrant to agression.

Yes it is. However the usual agressor is most likely one who intends to black your eye, bloody your nose, or teach you a lesson.
Or perhaps, more serious, to rob you of your money and then flee aprehension.

At the top of the scale are the cold blooded ones, who when seeing you armed, are not impressed. They are ego maniacs in addition to killers, and will simply devise a way of ambushing you or even just to slay you "efficiently" and then rob you, and carry out their acts upon your family.
The killers Platt and Matix come to mind. They obtained some of their weapons from someone at a target range, who was open carrying and not cautious.

I wouldn't feel too smug about deterring some ruffian punks from assaulting me, while the dangerous ones can map out their plan -upon viewing my advertised and publically displayed firearm.

I'm not that afraid of standing up to some punk agressor that I'm willing to give the advantage away to the serious threats.

JesseL
September 5, 2007, 06:15 PM
At the top of the scale are the cold blooded ones, who when seeing you armed, are not impressed. They are ego maniacs in addition to killers, and will simply devise a way of ambushing you or even just to slay you "efficiently" and then rob you, and carry out their acts upon your family.

Someone that cunning is probably going to give himself every advantage he can and assume that even though he can't see it, you may be armed. If that's the case, who is to say that this predator isn't going to ambush you even if you're carrying concealed?

It seems to me that in this scenario, open vs. concealed is moot and the only thing that's really likely to improve your survival odds is situational awareness.

I had been aware of the reasoning posted here; that it is a deterrant to agression.

Yes it is. However the usual agressor is most likely one who intends to black your eye, bloody your nose, or teach you a lesson.
Or perhaps, more serious, to rob you of your money and then flee aprehension.
...
I wouldn't feel too smug about deterring some ruffian punks from assaulting me, while the dangerous ones can map out their plan -upon viewing my advertised and publically displayed firearm.

I'm not that afraid of standing up to some punk agressor that I'm willing to give the advantage away to the serious threats.

It sounds like you're depending on a different kind of physical intimidation or force to deal with the lesser threats that you're so casually dismissing. That won't work for everyone. Think about what you would do if you were a small woman with half the strength and body mass of a large man. Wouldn't you appreciate having a visible deterrent, rather than having to deal with being attacked my muggers and rapists, and then shooting them with a concealed handgun?

One last thing, are you actually trying to imply that people who open carry are cowardly, or was that unintentional?

Mainsail
September 5, 2007, 06:24 PM
…give the advantage away to the serious threats.

I think the advantage goes to open carry. I can draw my openly carried pistol considerably faster than I can from concealment. If you knew beforehand that you would be drawing your handgun when you entered the 7-11, you’d tuck your shirt in and carry openly, right? (Acknowledging that you wouldn’t knowingly enter a situation like that.)

The Wiry Irishman
September 5, 2007, 06:26 PM
I would think you could draw a little bit faster if you didn't have to pull your shirt off your gun in the process

Mainsail
September 5, 2007, 06:45 PM
I would think you could draw a little bit faster if you didn't have to pull your shirt off your gun in the process

Exactly the point! What many are saying is that concealed carry in hot weather makes it difficult to effectively conceal your pistol. Some folks will carry on their ankle or in a bag (like the maxpedition) which is much slower.

Mat, not doormat
September 5, 2007, 07:11 PM
That's exactly why I don't go in for deep concealment. If you need a gun, the chances are very good that you're going to need it in a great big hurry. What I find goofy is that people will completely discard their carry rig, in favor of a competition rig for IDPA, etc. If it's not good enough for competition, where the only thing at stake is a ribbon, or a couple of bucks, why is it good enough to bet your life on?

When evaluating any given holster/gun/concealment combo, my numero uno consideration is whether or not I can get the gun into action quickly, and all other considerations are secondary.

~~~Mat

James T Thomas
September 5, 2007, 07:13 PM
"JesseL:"

I have no way of knowing whether a person carrying openly is a coward, brave or in between. I am too busy with my life to be thinking about that anyway. It doesn't interest me.

Yes, you may be slain, showing or not, but the cold blooded ones will size you up before, even if briefly, and I would hope to be alert enough to recognize it and prepare. And of course by what you do and how you do it, you can preclude placing your self into a vunerable condition where you are easily eliminated. That just goes all the time. Whether or not you observe others around you or not.

The way my wording may sound to you may be what you read into it, or it may be my inability to write explicitly. I do try to say just what I mean.
And very seldom if ever do I imply by what I'm writing. I'm too old for that and have seen too much of life.

The small woman, someone ill, disabled, etc. can benefit from open carry, but I don't believe attacks upon the weak or percieved weak come out of the clear blue sky either. I think there is always or should I say most of the time some preliminary activity leading up to attack -where by the defender may "produce" a weapon to change some one's mind and stop short.
Many of the more experienced, very large, under the influence criminals would view the open carry by some one weaker as a challenge, and arrange their assault to surprise that person completely.

"Mainsul:" (That's pronouncement) I've never counted on the "fast draw," having been caught in too many ambushes -and survived them! Now, that was military experience, granted, but, I think the principle is the same.
The infamous FBI Firefight that I previously mentioned is an example. Those agents; it was by their own doing, became "caught" in the ambush, and even with superior numbers and great gun skills, they were in trouble.
You probably will never know "beforehand," but by alertness, you may be able to alter your course to your advantage even before going into action.

Saints be protecting you Irishman, it is faster if you don't have to pull your shirt of your gun, and then, it is even a little faster if you already have your gun in hand!

Do you actually think that you will be involved in a show down at High Noon type thing? That some perp is going for his piece right in front of you; after some sort of hot verbal exchange?
Gentlemen, if you come around a corner, go to your car in the dark parking lot, or exit your workplace to go home, and suddenly it's "stick 'em up!"
Then I would forget trying to beat him to the draw -he has already beaten you.
If he commences draw, or slaps leather -first, he has beaten you.

Jim

JesseL
September 5, 2007, 07:24 PM
Gentlemen, if you come around a corner, go to your car in the dark parking lot, or exit your workplace to go home, and suddenly it's "stick 'em up!"
Then I would forget trying to beat him to the draw -he has already beaten you.
If he commences draw, or slaps leather -first, he has beaten you.

You're not beaten 'till you're dead or you give up. In the situation you describe, the odds aren't good. It could be that a fast draw will make the difference on whether you are truly beaten.

SJG26
September 5, 2007, 10:30 PM
SIgh.....anyone with an opinion on my original query:
"for all of you the open carry-----OFTEN----how do you handle weapons retention and level 1-2-3 etc - or do you at all??"

Fly320s
September 5, 2007, 11:08 PM
SJG26,

I don't carry openly very often, but I do OC.

For retention, I use and open-top, contoured leather holster (Level 1?). I also have training in weapon retention.

RPCVYemen
September 6, 2007, 01:20 PM
In my head, I see no pro's to Open Carry a firearm in public except for getting America more accepting that guns aren't just for bad guys.

The other advantage is that you may get an opportunity to test your weapon retention skill!

I am sure that you train as intensely at weapon retention as you do at the other skills you need for SD. So you'll probably pass. Of course, the "not pass" grade on this test will be sort of a bummer ...

Mike

fletcher
September 6, 2007, 01:22 PM
I prefer to CC. However, I would like the OC option to be available during the 4-5 month stretch of heat we have here in the summer that makes full-size concealed carry a bit difficult.

Tequila jake
September 6, 2007, 01:55 PM
Open carry is not legal here in Texas, but I have a CHL and carry concealed where it is legal. However, I don't think I would carry openly here even if it were legal, for several reasons:

1. Depending on how you carry it, the gun and holster can get hung up on seat belts, chair arms, etc.

2. I carry in my front pants pocket and it's reasonably comfortable. Even with the same gun (either a S&W 642 or a Kahr PM9), I can't imagine any type of open carry that would be as comfortable.

3. Maybe carrying openly would dissuade a potential attacker from coming after you, or maybe it would persuade him to shoot you in the back and take your weapon as well as your wallet. And as was pointed out, if the bad guy comes at you with his gun already drawn, there's no way you can draw and fire before he shoots you. If I'm carrying concealed, I feel that a felon is less likely to shoot me because I don't represent a potential threat to him. I'll just give up my wallet, 'cause I never have enough money in it to risk my life over.

4. It has been so long here in Texas since private citizens have been allowed to carry openly that it would be years before all the LEOs would know it is legal. Therefore, I can envision being arrested, or at least questioned, by LEOs during the first few years it was legal. Even more likely is that anti-gunners or gun-fearers (is that a word?) would report me to LEOs.

My $.02 (and probably not worth that much....)


Tequila jake

JesseL
September 6, 2007, 02:20 PM
1. Depending on how you carry it, the gun and holster can get hung up on seat belts, chair arms, etc.

That hasn't been a problem for me.

2. I carry in my front pants pocket and it's reasonably comfortable. Even with the same gun (either a S&W 642 or a Kahr PM9), I can't imagine any type of open carry that would be as comfortable.

That's probably true for the guns you carry, but I like to carry something a little bigger and easier to shoot accurately.

3. Maybe carrying openly would dissuade a potential attacker from coming after you, or maybe it would persuade him to shoot you in the back and take your weapon as well as your wallet. And as was pointed out, if the bad guy comes at you with his gun already drawn, there's no way you can draw and fire before he shoots you. If I'm carrying concealed, I feel that a felon is less likely to shoot me because I don't represent a potential threat to him. I'll just give up my wallet, 'cause I never have enough money in it to risk my life over.

This doesn't seem to be a real problem. We've had mention in this thread of maybe two cases of this happening to people that were open carrying. I'd bet you could find at least that many examples of people being killed for their concealed piece too.

There is also the fact that even if you don't appear to be armed, a criminal may still consider you enough of a threat (as a witness) to be worth killing. I don't want to trust my life to the mercy of a guy who's already decided to rob me.

4. It has been so long here in Texas since private citizens have been allowed to carry openly that it would be years before all the LEOs would know it is legal. Therefore, I can envision being arrested, or at least questioned, by LEOs during the first few years it was legal. Even more likely is that anti-gunners or gun-fearers (is that a word?) would report me to LEOs.

Although it's never been a problem here in AZ, I think rights are worth fighting for. Thank goodness all the great civil rights leaders of the past didn't let the fear of being questioned or arrested by the police stop them.

Mainsail
September 6, 2007, 05:27 PM
Maybe carrying openly would dissuade a potential attacker from coming after you, or maybe it would persuade him to shoot you in the back and take your weapon as well as your wallet.

Here’s the one example cited in this thread. Pay attention to the time of day the incident took place. Again, for all the hand wringing, it simply isn’t enough of a threat to persuade me that’s it’s any more realistic than a zombie invasion.

Man robbed in the Centreville area

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured.

The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

WayneConrad
September 6, 2007, 05:35 PM
Weapon Retention is easy: I don't purposefully close with bad guys. Cops get close to bad guys on purpose--that's why weapon retention is such an issue for them. With rare exceptions, it is not for the rest of us.

Weapon retention is a canard. It's not a serious risk unless you're arresting people.

kurtmax
September 6, 2007, 05:49 PM
Awareness of your surroundings and things like Cooper's color code will be much more important than the retention features of your holster....

Gaiudo
September 6, 2007, 07:35 PM
I only ever concealed carried when I lived a bit further out east. It just seemed like the thing to do when I didn't want to draw attention to myself in common company.

However, since moving a bit further west, and having not had the opportunity to get my CCW, I've been very grateful for the right to carry openly. Otherwise, every time I moved (which has been many recently!) I would be disarmed until my CC course was taken, and the papers processed, and I received my CC license. The last several times I've moved, that would mean no CC for me at all, in the past several years!

Open carry is a great way to have a firearm on you without worrying about many of the other restrictions/licensing issues; if its legal, just grab a gun and go.

JohnKSa
September 6, 2007, 11:53 PM
I would think you could draw a little bit faster if you didn't have to pull your shirt off your gun in the processAnd you'd BETTER be fast because you'll be forced to draw immediately when something goes down. Carrying concealed may be a bit slower but it gives you the option of choosing when to draw.Hereís the one example cited in this thread.The statement was that no one could produce an example. I did.

Guns are a very desirable item for theft. So desirable that robbers have held up gun shops manned by armed clerks. It's totally unrealistic to assume that one man walking alone down the street is going to be more threatening than a couple of armed gun store clerks on their own turf.

The example cited demonstrates what is already obvious. Criminals are willing to risk injury or death to steal firearms. The example SHOULD be unnecessary given the fact that it's COMMON knowledge that criminals have attacked openly armed persons in order to steal guns.I'd bet you could find at least that many examples of people being killed for their concealed piece too.This defies logic. How would a criminal manage this? Go about killing people he thinks might be carrying concealed?

Ragnar Danneskjold
September 7, 2007, 12:33 AM
Whether I open carry is pretty much based on how I'm dressed. I carry either a Mil Pro in an IWB, or a Walther P99 in a Galco. Usually my weapon is covered up by either a t-shirt, polo, or button down. But if I decide to wear the button down open, than my weapon is pretty much visible.

I try to dress and look pretty nice and civilized. The way I figure, if your way of dressing acting, and presenting yourself is upstanding and impressive, having a visible weapon won't automatically make people think "bad guy". So far I have yet to be hassled if I let my weapon show.

JesseL
September 7, 2007, 02:23 AM
I'd bet you could find at least that many examples of people being killed for their concealed piece too.
This defies logic. How would a criminal manage this? Go about killing people he thinks might be carrying concealed?

Concealment isn't always perfect. I've seen a lot of guys that were pretty obviously carrying yet not "open" carrying. There have been numerous threads about this. Look for guys with fanny packs, photographer's vests, 5.11 pants, oversized Hawaiian shirts, etc.

Tequila jake
September 7, 2007, 03:34 AM
JesseL and Mainsail:

1. "That hasn't been a problem for me." I carry my cell phone on my belt and (perhaps because I'm pretty clumsy) have had it hang up on seat belts, chair arms, and other things. I believe the same thing could happen to my weapon if I carry openly.

2. "That's probably true for the guns you carry, but I like to carry something a little bigger and easier to shoot accurately." I agree that a larger handgun would be easier to shoot well than either of mine, but it certainly wouldn't be any more comfortable to carry than either of them. And that's what I was getting at--the comfort angle.

3. "I'd bet you could find at least that many examples [2]of people being killed for their concealed piece too." If their weapon was properly concealed, the bad guys wouldn't know they had one and wouldn't kill them.

4. "Although it's never been a problem here in AZ, I think rights are worth fighting for. Thank goodness all the great civil rights leaders of the past didn't let the fear of being questioned or arrested by the police stop them." I agree completely that rights are worth fighting for, and I will be happy to fight for the right to carry openly. However, because of the other disadvantages I see, plus the possibility of arrest, I won't carry openly. I didn't say it wasn't worth taking a chance on being arrested if a person wants to carry openly, it's just not worth it to me.

5. "Hereís the one example cited in this thread. Pay attention to the time of day the incident took place. Again, for all the hand wringing, it simply isnít enough of a threat to persuade me thatís itís any more realistic than a zombie invasion.


Quote:
Man robbed in the Centreville area

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victimís head. The suspects took the victimís hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspectís then fled the area. The victim was not injured."

Note that there is no mention that they took anything except the victim's handgun. If he had not been carrying openly, I would assume that they wouldn't have attacked him.

Bottom line: for those who want to carry openly, I hope that all states soon allow it. But it's not for me....

Tequila Jake

Feanaro
September 7, 2007, 04:13 AM
I carry my cell phone on my belt and (perhaps because I'm pretty clumsy) have had it hang up on seat belts, chair arms, and other things. I believe the same thing could happen to my weapon if I carry openly.

I hang my phone on stuff all the time. But I've never hung a pistol on anything. I don't bang it into walls and such. Whether it's a good, tight holster or a raised awareness, I've never had that problem.

JohnKSa
September 7, 2007, 04:10 PM
I'd bet you could find at least that many examples of people being killed for their concealed piece too. Concealment isn't always perfect. I've seen a lot of guys that were pretty obviously carrying yet not "open" carrying.So basically you're saying that not concealing properly puts you at risk of being killed for your firearm?

Maybe I'm missing something but that seems like a terrible argument for open carry...

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