Zero Tolerance Weapons Policy strikes again!


PDA






GTSteve03
September 5, 2007, 02:39 PM
And people wonder why we badmouth public schools here... :cuss:

Wheeler student suspended for having knife
By YOLANDA RODRÍGUEZ
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 09/04/07

A Wheeler High School student has been suspended for 10 days and charged with a felony for carrying a weapon onto the campus.

According to an arrest warrant, Wilford Ray Chandler Jr. had a pocket knife with a 2.5-inch blade on Aug. 29, a violation of the school district's weapons policy.

Jay Dillon, a Cobb schools spokesman, said Chandler left the Wheeler campus about midday — a violation of the school's rules. When he came back onto the grounds, a school resource officer searched him and his car, which is standard operating procedure when a student leaves campus without permission.

The blade, described in the warrant as a "multipurpose-type pocket knife," was found in the center console of the car.

"He left campus when he wasn't supposed to, and he acknowledged that," Dillon said.

The district's zero tolerance policy dictates that a blade longer than 2 inches gets an automatic 10-day suspension and criminal charges. Smaller blades get a 5-day suspension and may result in criminal charges, Dillon said.

Last year, "dozens" of weapons were found in Cobb schools, he said.

Dillon noted that on Friday a Pebblebrook High School student stabbed another student on campus. That student, a juvenile whose name was not released, was suspended and charged with bringing a weapon to school, aggravated battery and aggravated assault.

The injured student, also a juvenile, was OK, Dillon said.
So, the SAK wasn't even on his person, just in the console of his car. I like how you are mandatorily searched when coming back to campus. Makes me glad I'm not in school these days, and I only graduated high school 8 years ago. :(

The poor kid gets a felony charge and won't be carrying guns for the rest of his life now. Hey, if the anti's can't get it to work through legislation, they'll do it somehow! :fire:

If you enjoyed reading about "Zero Tolerance Weapons Policy strikes again!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Bitmap
September 5, 2007, 02:54 PM
Homeschooling. It's for the children.

fletcher
September 5, 2007, 03:05 PM
What a waste of time and resources.


I remember in high school one time when I accidentally brought my big Swiss Army knife to school (the one with like 40 tools on it). I had left it in my trumpet case while on a scout campout the previous weekend, being the troop bugler. Got to school, saw it in the case and started freaking out because of the weapon policies. Just crammed it underneath the platform in the case and left it there. It's a shame I even had to worry about that.

Sistema1927
September 5, 2007, 03:10 PM
We used to carry 4" Buck Knives in belt sheaths as part of the unofficial young man's "uniform" when I was in High School. And, we had our rifles and shotguns in our vehicles in the parking lot, often in visible gun racks.

Funny how we didn't have any problems in those days.

Zero tolerance = Zero common sense :barf:

I pity the kids who are growing up in "Nerf World" these days.

Loucks
September 5, 2007, 03:21 PM
I'm not even 30 yet, but I carried a pocket knife to school every day from 3rd grade until I finished college without a single objection from an educator or administrator. Why do I suddenly feel like sitting on the front porch in a rocking chair, smoking a cigar and complaining about the world going to pot?

Actually, a cigar sounds good right about now. Sancho Panza, here I come. :evil:

35Rem
September 5, 2007, 03:30 PM
I'll do one better (worse) this is in a small town in Alabama.


Cottonwood Student Arrested

COTTONWOOD: A student at Cottonwood High School was found in possession of a police baton Tuesday.
Houston County Sheriff's Sgt. Randy Anderson, also referred to as Deputy Randy, School Recourse Officer, said the student did not threaten or hit anyone with the baton, often called a "billy club". However, Anderson stressed there is a zero tolerance policy regarding weapons at school.

The student, who was not identified because of his age, was taken to the Southeast Alabama Diversion Center. It's not immediately known where he got the baton.

Robert Hairless
September 5, 2007, 03:32 PM
Yow!

Forgive my exclamation but I belong to a generation in which part of the rites of passage to manhood was the gift of a good pocketknife. It was both a tool and a badge of impending adulthood, a tangible sign that the adult world believed that you had developed a sense of responsibility. My father liked the idea too, in part because it gave him the opportunity to give me the jobs of opening packages and boxes.

I probably still have one of those I was given at that time tucked away in a drawer somewhere. I was very proud of it. Still am.

We live in a strange new world now. The one in which I was a child and grew to adulthood was imperfect and needed serious improvement, but in many ways it was a more humane world than the one we've given you folks. My generation obviously has made some dreadful mistakes that you people need to correct. I apologize for my part in it. I'll add, though, that I never supported the kinds of lunacy being discussed here.

What will happen, I wonder, to the increasingly large numbers of children who are being felonized by this madness. Perhaps more serious, what will happen to the other children who are taught by it to be passive components of a herd.

Standing Wolf
September 5, 2007, 04:51 PM
Another Great Triumph in the wussification of America.

CZ.22
September 5, 2007, 06:12 PM
If anybody ever tries to search my care at school they're going to get a resounding "NO!"
The kid has a pocketknife in his car. Most likely an SAK or multitool. You'd think he had brought an h-bomb with him.
I swear to God, if I ever start a school, it's gonna have a zero-blissninnnie-leftist-idiotpolicy. Knives would be fine.

ilcylic
September 5, 2007, 06:20 PM
Hunh. I always carry tools in my car. It's just the smart thing to do. After all, we're living in a different world now. Terrorists could attack at any time, and it pays to be prepared for emergencies.

yesit'sloaded
September 5, 2007, 06:23 PM
I hate to think like this, but wouldn't it be a solution if everyone gave their kid a knife. Then they could not send home everyone so they would just have to accept it. Way back when schools were built because parents pooled their money for the good of their children's future. Now it is the government telling you that your child must go to school and must learn all the liberal trash they cram down their throats. By the time I have kids they will be reading to kindergartners how little Jimmy loves both of his daddies. I support the boy scouts now as much as ever because they have yet to back down. They will not accept homosexuals, they teach teach firearms, promote moral value, and independence from social welfare. They don't care how unpopular it is and sadly the number of boy scouts is going down. And...they all carry knives because you never know when you will need a good pocketknife.

obxned
September 5, 2007, 06:25 PM
Shame they don't have a zero tolerance of stupidity!

The only purpose of public education that I can see is that it does teach kids how to survive outrageous quantities of bullcrap!

FieroCDSP
September 5, 2007, 06:26 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Zero Tolerance is simply an excuse to avoid making decisions you might have to stand up for. Once upon a time, such a situation would have required a principal to decide whether the child had evil intent or not. Now we can't trust anyone but the courts to decide how much evil intent your child has, because it's obvious that the only reason you need a knife (or scissors, or a hole-punch) is because you're looking to hurt someone.

Please, God, let common sense ring out.

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 06:32 PM
Ha! Same thing happened to me a while ago. I dunno if it was a felony, but boyhowdy did they get me on it. It sucked. I think this kid can get it stricken from his record when he's 18, so he should be able to own firearms when he's older.
Either that, or I'm screwed.
This would be one of the few times that I'd say "screw the law!" with any honesty.
By the way, being able to survive extreme quantities of bull is a necessary life skill.

koja48
September 5, 2007, 06:35 PM
Glad I grew-up when & where I did. Shotguns/deer rifle/ gear in the trunk so we could leave directly from school to go hunting in my '51 Chevy sedan that THOUGHT it was a 4x4. Shop teacher agreed that building a stock for my '06 was a great project & did a good deal of the inletting. I know that times have changed (not always for the better) & rules are rules (too often knee jerk overkill/politically-correct and all), but this over 1/4"???? Maybe size DOES matter! Sounds as if the kid was either a bad-a$$, or an administrator had an axe to grind (whoops, that surely wouldn't be allowed), I mean a fingernail to file (probably bad, too), alright, a nerf ball to clean . . .

jbauch357
September 5, 2007, 06:52 PM
you know if we didn't have kids regularly stabbing eachother at school the complete prohibition of pocket knifes wound't be on the agenda. don't get me wrong, I carried a pocket knife to school from middle school on - and still carry one daily (I just suppliment it with a G26 now too) and don't generally see a problem with students doing the same.

what needs to happen is a serious crack down/punishment agenda for the kids that are actually commiting the serious crimes, like stabbing fellow students - instead of cracking down on kids that may have a pocket knife in their car.

the whole thing just makes me sick...

Black Adder LXX
September 5, 2007, 07:16 PM
I had a moment when I realized *how* much things have changed when I watched 'To Kill a Mockingbird' a couple years back. In the movie, Gregory Peck talks about how when he was 12 he used to run around the woods and fields with his 22 rifle and his dad told him it was a sin to kill a mockingbird.
Kids running around at 12 with rifles... and society didn't collapse...

Snapping Twig
September 5, 2007, 07:28 PM
And yet these dweebs ignore the car as a weapon!

I'd rather face down a multi tool than a speeding car.

How about all the gasoline he brought onto campus? Admittedly it was in the tank, but he could have accessed it under these same speculative B.S. what-if hyperbolic theorems.

I bet there was a tire iron in the trunk too...

Save us from ourselves!

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 07:36 PM
Exactly my logic, Snapping Twig. They can get you for anything nowadays, it's all just a matter of whether they do or not.
Thankfully, my school is relatively reasonable.
But I'm not comfortable with my school having that kind of power over me, even if they don't exercise it.
I've often thought of a "knife strike", where several students bring pocketknives to school and make the faculty aware of them but do not surrender them, thus getting suspended.
I would do it... but if I commit another misdemeanor, they'll both go on my permanent record and I won't be able to get firearms as an adult.

koja48
September 5, 2007, 07:40 PM
Then simmer & be tolerant, Nolo. This too, will pass.

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 07:41 PM
Oh, certainly, Koja, but it boils my blood to think of the stupidity.

mpc12
September 5, 2007, 07:43 PM
I guess I came out of a great place. We had a no tolerance weapons policy at my school, but i carried a knife from day one of Kindergarten through Graduation. Almost daily in high school my knife was borrowed by a teacher. I wound up giving him one when I graduated. I just graduated in 2003 also.

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 07:43 PM
Jeez!
Where'd you go to school, mpc12?
I'm transferring!

mpc12
September 5, 2007, 07:45 PM
Sadly, we had an administration change two years after I graduated, so the glory days of keeping a knife with you, or in your car are long gone.

Zundfolge
September 5, 2007, 08:01 PM
Jeebus ... I remember making billy clubs on the lathe in Jr. High shop class ... I seem to recall I got an A for mine.

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 08:09 PM
People want a puppies and daisies world today, they don't seem to realize that the world just isn't like that.
And that gets people killed.
Our kids (I would include myself, but I was home schooled until Middle School) have been indoctrinated to be "nice". Being intelligent or thinking critically don't come into it. You're just supposed to be "nice". Every thought a kid has nowadays is either a manufactured product of being "nice" or a wild rebellion from that idea. Either way, you get trouble.

koja48
September 5, 2007, 08:20 PM
I understand. Take therapy . . . shooting, reloading, drooling over gun web sites, & conversing with members/perusing the HighRoad come to mind . . .

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 08:26 PM
I don't get out shooting enough, that's true.

koja48
September 5, 2007, 08:28 PM
Well if "Nunya, Virginia" was closer to WA State, I'd doctor ya meself . . .

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 08:32 PM
Which is actually not where I live...
:evil:

wdlsguy
September 5, 2007, 08:33 PM
I can't get over the fact that carrying a 2" pocketknife can net you a felony conviction in Georgia. :what:

ranger335v
September 5, 2007, 08:33 PM
"Zero tolerance = Zero common sense"

Yeah. In fact, it is a policy of putting policy ahead of any sense at all. God help our kids if we can't retake the "eduacation system" back from the liberals that have made things so much better over the last 40 years.

I knew in my gut that our schools were going to degenerate when congress decided after Sputnik that they were going to turn education over to the "experts" so we could catch up to the Russians. Jimmy Carter drove the last nail into the coffin of good education when he rewarded the teachers labor unions to have a Cabinet Level department in the government.

Anyone but me see what they have accomplished with that? Well, they have succeeded in dropping us down to the level of Libya and they do get to teach their own detached from reality social doctrines, if not our history or math or science or civics, etc!
And after the rivers of money we have poured on the education establishment, it still isn't enough?

They don't have to think or reason anything. They have "rules" to substitute for brains so "zero tolerance" to foolish extreems seems intelligent to them!

HonorsDaddy
September 5, 2007, 08:50 PM
You said:

you know if we didn't have kids regularly stabbing eachother at school the complete prohibition of pocket knifes wound't be on the agenda.

Gee - what a wonderful idea. Hey! I wonder if we made it illegal for EVERYONE to own guns if the bad guys wouldn't stop shooting each other!

pinstripe
September 5, 2007, 09:15 PM
I remember back in the day when I was in school. I graduated in 1983 from a public school here in central Arkansas. We would have our shotguns in the back window of the truck, waiting for school to get out so that we could hunt some dove, or squirrel. Times have changed. I could only imagine what would happen today to a senior in high school pulling up in his truck with a pump 12ga. in the rear window. Security would probably shot him dead and say that he was attempting to shoot up the school. Things are out of control, and getting crazier by the minute.
Maybe the past wasn't so bad?????

NAK
September 5, 2007, 09:32 PM
We made reactive targets in metal shop. We took them out behind the practice field and the shop teacher graded them with a .22 pump he kept in his truck...you didn't get an "A" unless they spun all the way around and stopped back on top.

CB900F
September 5, 2007, 09:59 PM
Fella's;

I think I gotcha all beat for "good old days schooling". I attended Natrona County High School in Casper Wyoming.

"OK, so what?" is heard from the peanut gallery.

So I learned, in school, in official class, how to field strip, assemble, and operate fully automatic weapons and semi automatic weapons. To top that, I also shot firearms in school. Several hundred thousand times I'd think.

:D 900F

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 10:04 PM
Oh yeah. CB totally beat us.

Elm Creek Smith
September 5, 2007, 10:07 PM
How 'bout carry your single shot .22 Remington to school with a dozen or so rounds in your pocket, put it in the cloak room, and go squirrel hunting on the way home, and no one thinks a thing about it?

ECS

koja48
September 5, 2007, 10:39 PM
So, why didn't you just say you were in home-economics? When I was a senior in HS, a young Dominican nun buried my Dad's Jeep in deep snow (and we BOTH figured we were in deep Sh**), but only AFTER she made a 100-yard running shot on a coyote with a 250/3000 Savage (and you thought prayer didn't work) . . . but you WERE raised in Wyoming & LIVE in God's Country now, CB . . .

Old Fuff
September 5, 2007, 10:45 PM
Well they keep getting them younger and younger. Administrators in this school don't have enough brains to keep their ears apart. How dumb and dumb be? Read this...

Mom Says Son Suspended for Hiding on Bus
From Associated Press
September 05, 2007 5:28 PM EDT

ANDERSON, Ind. - A kindergartner has been suspended from school transportation for two weeks because he hid from a bus driver, the 5-year-old boy's mother said. Two weeks? For what?

The bus driver dropped off Erskine Elementary students on Aug. 29, then left to pick up children at another school - with the boy still on the bus. The driver discovered him after hearing him giggle, and school officials said the driver was not at fault.

The child's mother says the punishment was too severe. She has that right...

"He's 5 years old, he just started riding the bus," said Natasha Pulley. "I find the whole situation kind of messed up." That's an understatement.

School officials re-enacted the incident with the 5-year-old to determine what happened, said Anderson Community Schools Superintendent Mikella Lowe.

"Any time a child is left on a school bus we want to find out what happened," Lowe said. "When the bus driver heard (the student), he took the appropriate steps. It was just a prank the little guy was playing."

Lowe would not discuss the terms of the student's punishment, citing confidentiality rules. Ah, that cop-out again...

Pulley said she and her husband both work in Marion County, making it difficult to drive her to school in the county about 20 to 30 miles away.

"I understand him acting out. I understand he was in and out of the seats," said Pulley. "He's just a typical 5-year-old boy that just started school." When this school gets done he won't be...

---

Information from: The Herald Bulletin, http://www.theheraldbulletin.com

alligator94
September 5, 2007, 11:02 PM
Sad to say but you have no rights in schools anymore. Towards the end of my senior year I was going out for lunch with some friends when we saw a guy trying to use a slim jim to break into my car. We were about to teach him a lesson when he identified himself as school security who were searching cars that day. This was about three blocks away from school. If you drove to school where I went they could search your car anytime, anywhere. I saw them do this many times at the local fast food places around there. I however did not let them search my car, when the school called my parents they wisely decided to drop the issue. I don't even want to think about what it will be like when my kids are in high school....

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 11:09 PM
Wait, a slim jim!? No way in Hell that is legal! You can't just break into someone's car! I don't care if it is on school property, it doesn't make the car their property! Slim jims can damage vehicles (I know, I've used one), so that could be destruction of private property. If he had such a good reason to search your locked car, he has an obligation to inform you and, in the event that you submit or the law overrides you, hire a locksmith.
You should take that sucker to court.

alligator94
September 5, 2007, 11:15 PM
Wait, a slim jim!? No way in Hell that is legal! You can't just break into someone's car! I don't care if it is on school property, it doesn't make the car their property! Apparently there was a form (quite a few different ones) at the beginning of the year that you had to sign in order to go to school that authorized them to do this anywhere at any time. From what I gather this still goes on today. No reason at all to search, just something they decide to do randomly.

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 11:21 PM
Oh, my God, that is the biggest piece of bullscheize I've seen this side of the Constitution.
Wow.
Just wow.
I don't even know what to say to that.
If you failed to sign it, could they expel/refuse to admit you?

armedandsafe
September 5, 2007, 11:23 PM
Just as I moved from SoNevada to Eastern Oregon, the principal of the high school decided to crack down on all the firearms in the parking lot. He had a LARGE rifle rack built by the woodshop class and installed in the office. We had to take our rifles, shotguns and pistols into the office and hand them to the Secretary to put in the rack during school. Pricipal reported to the School Board later in the year that the new, tougher, Zero-Tolerance policy worked. There were a lot fewer instances of kids playing hooky from the later afternoon classes to go hunting. :neener:

Pops

alligator94
September 5, 2007, 11:24 PM
If you failed to sign it, could they expel/refuse to admit you?
I believe so, but I can't remember for sure it was eight years ago. However one of my friends younger brother goes to school there, and according to him they still do this today. Yet another reason I do my best to stay away from MD now.

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 11:26 PM
Wow.
That's my school system, too.
Funny thing, I never sign a damn thing every year anyway.
:evil:
Oh, that makes me feel good about myself.
Really good.
I guess they still admit me because I keep the SAT scores up. (2090, W00T!)

goings_51
September 5, 2007, 11:29 PM
I once carried a 400 year old sword on my belt to a renaissance day in Jr. High. It was my dad's idea. This was way back in the early '90s. I also remember finding shotgun shells in my coat pocket one Monday after hunting that weekend. Now, you can't even smoke in a bar? The world has turned into a wussified version of its former self.

GTSteve03
September 5, 2007, 11:45 PM
Yeah, this pretty much seems to reflect the way things are going all over the US, ie downhill.

Now, to try and steer this thread somewhat back onto a gun-related topic:

This kind of "zero tolerance" example from school administrators seems like it would do one of two things to the young generation being entrusted with their care. Either they will soak up the idea that all weapons are bad and become the next generation of antis, or perhaps they will see how ridiculous these policies are and how they really don't help at all and do what kids seem to always do best no matter their age: refuse to listen to their elders and do the exact opposite! :evil:

Now, I don't exactly have faith that it will work out so well for us, so is there anything we can do to help keep from having all the kids growing up in public schools end up as vehement antis?

I don't know if any schools still have shooting teams like they used to do back in the day. I heard there are a few here in GA that do target shooting with 22LRs or maybe pellet rifles, sometimes they may be in the gym, I'm not sure how that works with the "no weapons" policy. I wonder if it would be possible to set up a trap/skeet team for high schoolers? I remember reading a story about that somewhere in the past, it seems like it would be really popular and a pretty safe way to introduce the kids to safe firearm handling.

I grew up shooting BB guns at empty coke cans in the backyard with my brother, but I have a feeling things like that these days would probably cause the neighbors to call the cops and say you pointed your Red Ryder in a threatening manner. :fire:

Nolo
September 5, 2007, 11:52 PM
I have to repost for homeschooling.
On a mass scale? Initiate a hostile take over of all schools? (Oh man, I wish it was that easy...)

Green Lantern
September 5, 2007, 11:57 PM
The poor kid gets a felony charge and won't be carrying guns for the rest of his life now

That's ONLY if he's *convicted,* right???? I hope so. I also hope that the judge/jury/WHOEVER holds the kids fate in their hands, has more common sense than the fools that write these policies. I know if *I* were on the jury that heard his case, that the devil would be using a snow shovel before I found him guilty of a felony!

No offspring of mine will ever set foot in a public school....

(of course, I never plan on having kids anyway...)

...but if I DID, then home or private school all the way!

I move that we open up "THR Academy." A private school where your kids will NOT be treated as a 'subject.' Do I hear a second? :D

MachIVshooter
September 5, 2007, 11:58 PM
Jeebus ... I remember making billy clubs on the lathe in Jr. High shop class ... I seem to recall I got an A for mine.

We made BOWIE KNIVES in high school metal shop and there was no problem, and that was only just over a decade ago. I remember before moving out of state, I brought some non-alcholic beer to class to celebrate with my buddies. That was in the fifth grade, and the teacher simply asked us to put it away during school. No suspension, no criminal charges. Not even a repremand. I imagine that'd get you expelled today.

Yet another reason I really don't want to have kids.

Rumble
September 6, 2007, 12:11 AM
Just the other day, we found out that my son had slipped one of his GI Joe toys into his backpack before school (he was going to a friend's house after school, and wanted to take his toy - perfectly understandable). Well, it turned out that this toy had some very nicely rendered plastic guns with it (a little 1911, and a combat shotgun, and so forth).

And, in this day and age, we had to tell him that he could never take those things to school again, because they might get him kicked out.

He asked, "Why?"

We answered, "We don't know. Because there are stupid people making dumb rules every day. Please don't take the toy to school anymore, even if the rules are dumb."

It is absolutely ridiculous that we even had to formulate the thoughts that led to the request that he not take postage-stamp-sized toy guns to school, lest he be expelled.

MinnMooney
September 6, 2007, 12:15 AM
So Alabama has 'zero tolerance' for police batons?
(As per 35Rem back on post 6)

Wouldn't a baseball bat be as (or more) deadly? How do 'they' let students use baseball bats on school property without charging them with a felony?!? And you can only imagine the charges that would be heeped upon anyone carrying an umbrella (w/a pointy end, no less!).

frogomatic
September 6, 2007, 12:15 AM
good grief, when I went to highschool(95 graduate) we MADE knives in shop class(still have mine, been with me on every hunt since I made it). Hell, I made a replica of an ceremonial indian warhammer(netted me an A, woot!). Nobody batted an eye. I wretch every time I'm reminded how far we've fallen in just my short lifetime.

@machIVshooter: makes me not want to have kids either. Unfortunately, I know the responsibility we have to bring better young men and women into this world. America doesn't need gun-control it need breeding-control. I'm going to run for president on the 'no kids for morons' platform.

froggy out...

IA_farmboy
September 6, 2007, 12:46 AM
Now, you can't even smoke in a bar?

Oh how I wish that was more common. I very much dislike going to bars because I come out at the end of the night smelling like an ashtray. I could only tolerate the smoke as long as I was properly, um, sedated. While I could tolerate the smoke after a few drinks it made hitting the dartboard a bit difficult.

Many restaurants have "non-smoking" areas which happen to be just on the other side of a short wall from the "smoking" area. That can make an enjoyable night out with friends turn into one hell of a literal headache. I don't care if you want to suck down that crap, just don't do it in my air.

Back on topic...

I remember looking through the high school yearbook one of my older siblings had. There was a picture of three students dressed up in turbans and robes holding plastic machine guns "skyjacking" the principal. Yep, the principal posed with the students, with a huge smile, while they pointed plastic guns at him.

This was the same principal I had when the school adopted many "zero intelligence"... oops, I mean "zero tolerance" policies. My how things can change so quickly.

They were cracking down on drugs and had the policy that any pills you were taking had to be dispensed by the school nurse. That is one policy I broke often. If I had a cold I'd put cold tablets in my pocket before going to school. I was almost hoping to get caught. Never did.

These "no weapons" policies are quite idiotic. I've heard of several times where a sharpened pencil made a very effective weapon. Belts, books, shoes (or at least the laces), even a chair. Here's an idea. Let's have the students wear a uniform, one of those jumpsuits so they won't be wearing a belt. Can't be having any pockets to hide a knife... or a Tylenol. Slippers on the feet. Make sure the desks and chairs are bolted to the floor. All pens are to be on a chain connected to the desk. I've seen places like this, and the sign out front didn't say "high school".

arizona-hermit
September 6, 2007, 12:54 AM
When I was growing up (yes, it was a long, long time ago), it was not uncommon to have pistols, rifles, shotguns, slingshots, fishing poles (whatever was needed) scattered throughout the school (in lockers) to be used before or after school for hunting/fishing.

I usually had a .22 revolver or rifle in my locker from the 6th through the 12th grade and no one could have cared less. Many kids did and nothing 'bad' was ever thought about it. I lived in a rural community and 80% or more of the students were hunters or fishermen.

There were never locker inspections or shakedowns and metal detectors had not even been invented yet.

Life was much simpler.

You could see any number of weapons hanging in the back window of pickups in the high school parking lot.

Course back then, many schools had shooting classes as part of gym (PE or alternative anatomical foundational functioning enhancement for you youngsters).

Where did we go wrong as a country? Guess that would be a whole new thread.

Ready2Defend
September 6, 2007, 01:10 AM
My kids have knives at school everyday :what:(the boys are 10 and 11 years old). Some days (with the principal's permission) they dry fire lever action rifles and a single action pistol - 357mag working firearms:what:(no live ammo in room, rockwall backstop, supervision by adult. )




















OK - We home educate our children, and I am the principal.:neener:

Gaucho Gringo
September 6, 2007, 01:13 AM
This is getting to the point of absurd. When I went to high school in the mid 60's I carried a 4 1\2" pocketknife. I also had my Winchester Model 06 .22 in my closet since I was 12 with the ammunition and I never went on a killing rampage. I also knew where my fathers guns and ammunition were but I never touched them. My father was a Marine Sargent and veteran of WWII & Korea. He taught me how to shoot when I was 6 or 7 and also taught me the difference between right and wrong and a lot of other things too. He never had to worry about me doing something wrong because he had told me what would happen if I did. I have tried to do the same with my children who are now in their early 20's and I enjoy shooting with my son. My Winchester model 06 is now being shot by the 4th generation of my family and hopefully in a few years my granddaughter will make it 5th generation. I hope she will not be the last.

Geno
September 6, 2007, 01:17 AM
This is truly troubling, and appears, at face-value, to be illegal. There are two issues: 1) zero tolerance and 2) search and seizure.

Zero tolerance requires that the student:
1) knowingly bring a weapon to school
2) the item must truly be a weapon (not a picture of)
3) the student must have brought the weapon with the intent to commit harm to people and/or property.

Regarding the auto search:
Regarding the leaving campus w/o permission and returning, thus subjecting to a search, I point to T.L.O. V. New Jersey, in which the court said the administrative team had "en loco parentis" power(in place of the parent). This means that when the child is at school, the staff and administration have the power over the child to do as a "reasonable and prudent" parent would do. Depending on circumstances, a reasonable and prudent parent might search their child's belongings, i.e. backpack, locker, pants, jacket, even car. Body cavity...hang it up!!! Call the parents and a doctor.

Would a reasonable and prudent parent search the child's car? Perhaps. But, usually there must be indication that a rule was broken. Step 1 is met. He left campus w/o permission. The next step is to ask is it reasonable to assume he left to get a weapon? Perhaps. Was there recent conflict? But, this matter became a mute point, because it is adopted policy...read publicly and adopted by the Board. That makes it local law, literally. The policy should be in the student handbook.

However, let's take a pragmatic look here. IMHO the Zero Tolerance was not met. Period. Not from the information that I have seen. Regarding the search, that is a different matter. I personally would NOT, would NOT have done the search. I find the policy offensive and over-intrusive, i.e. no reasonable and not prudent. If they feel this strongly, suspend the student, but prosecute? That is wrong. It doesn't even seem to me that it meets the standard of a weapon per the state's laws.

Regardless of outcome, this child is now marked for life! That is wrong.

Doc2005 (Former High School Principal; Current Grad. Prof. of Educ. Administration)

:banghead:

Pilgrim
September 6, 2007, 02:19 AM
When he came back onto the grounds, a school resource officer searched him and his car, which is standard operating procedure when a student leaves campus without permission.
As I recall, SCOTUS said school officials can search a student and his belongings if they have a reasonable suspicion a student is violating school rules or the law. Reasonable suspicion has a lower threshold than probable cause. I wonder if the school resource officer had authority from the school official to search this student or is acting on general orders. It could make a difference.

Pilgrim

The Lone Haranguer
September 6, 2007, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by Sistema1927:
We used to carry 4" Buck Knives in belt sheaths as part of the unofficial young man's "uniform" when I was in High School.
I was not one of them, but I remember, from when I went to high school in the mid 1970s, a sort of clique of guys who wore Levi's big bell bottoms, engineer boots and a Buck 110 in a belt sheath. They would spend many hours slicking up the action so the blade would flip out with a hard wrist flick (not easy to do with that knife.) Nobody ever got cut.

Originally posted by Robert Hairless:
... I belong to a generation in which part of the rites of passage to manhood was the gift of a good pocketknife.
Just like my first Boy Scout knife. I cut myself with it, too, even still bearing the scar 40 years later. ;) My parents just bandaged me up and told me to be more careful with it next time. :)

Originally posted by FieroCDSP:
... Zero Tolerance is simply an excuse to avoid making decisions you might have to stand up for.
Good point, I had not thought of it like that.

"Zero Tolerance" is something that sounds and feels:rolleyes: good, until the literal meaning of it is actually applied.

Regolith
September 6, 2007, 03:01 AM
This reminds me of a story I was told about my great-grandfather, who lived on a farm in the Willamette valley in Oregon.

Every day he and his brother would ride their horses to school, and on the way they'd bring a .22 pistol of some kind or another to shoot rabbits if they saw them. This was a fairly regular occurrence.

Then one year the tiny little one room schoolhouse got a new teacher, from somewhere back east. One day, my great-grandfather was getting a book out of the horse's saddlebags when the teacher saw the pistol. She punished him for having it (can't recall exactly what happened, but I believe he was sent home sans pistol).

Anyway, the school board was informed of what happened, and the teacher was fired within a week.

Ah the good ol' days.

Hell, as recently as 6 or so years ago my PE class went to the firing range for a week or two every spring to be taught basic marksmanship and gun safety. Of course, that was only a few years after Columbine, so we also had a zero tolerance policy in effect. That was hardly ever enforced unless the student who was caught was a trouble maker, though, at least for knives. Guns would have been a different manner (I once saw a kid almost expelled for simply joking that he had a rifle in his truck -- he didn't).

evan price
September 6, 2007, 04:27 AM
Way back when I was in high school our school gave each of us every year a folder with the rules printed inside it and we had an assembly where they were gone over with everyone.. if you stayed there you obviously had 4 consecutive lectures one for each year..with a question & answer session for the freshmen after each bullet point.

The weapons section (which said it was for examples and was not considered complete or final just a guideline) had a line that stated "...knives, spears, or sharpened sticks..."

My Junior Year I stuck my hand up and asked if sharpened sticks included pencils?

As fast as that I had a week's detention for not taking the stuff seriously enough.

The last laugh was on them- since the year was brand new the custodians had nothing to do so "detention" consisted of hanging out in the custodian's lounge in the boilerhouse playing Euchre and smoking with the other detainees and the custodians. (Where, may I add, no teacher or staff except the principal had a key!!)

Loucks
September 6, 2007, 07:22 AM
Apparently there was a form (quite a few different ones) at the beginning of the year that you had to sign in order to go to school that authorized them to do this anywhere at any time. From what I gather this still goes on today. No reason at all to search, just something they decide to do randomly.

My younger brother's high school tried this a few years back. My folks drove over and showed the adminstrators their ACLU cards. The form was waived almost immediately. :D

Warren
September 6, 2007, 07:36 AM
My Mom was on the Rifle Team at her high school. I have her yearbook somewhere and there is a team picture and my mom is right in front IIRC holding some sort of bolt action.

Of course this was the late 40s early 50s.

Geno
September 6, 2007, 08:03 AM
I wonder if the school resource officer had authority from the school official to search this student or is acting on general orders. It could make a difference.

Correct, school personnel go by the standard of "reasonable suspicion" versus the police standard of “probable cause". There is a huge difference. The difference of the officers searching versus administrators searching lies in the fact of who made the request.

If the administrator requested the search, reasonable suspicion applies even though the officer did the search. If the officer made the request of the administrator, probable cause applies, even if the administrator does the search. You read that correctly. This issue became extremely important in one school/court case in which I was a witness. The judge had one concern, and one concern only: "Who requested the search, me or the officer?"

Herein lies the key factor: because I had made the request, the officer acted on behalf of the administrator (lower standard). If the officer had made the request of me, he in effect would have “deputized” me, I lose "reasonable suspicion" as the standard, and have to stop the search until I receive a warrant to search. IMHO, it is never a good idea for the administrator to involve the police in the search until the search is done and over. While the difference may sound trivial, it can make the difference of disallowing evidence discovered in the search.

Doc2005

Walkalong
September 6, 2007, 08:34 AM
I know this is not news, but we routinely carried pocket knives in gradeschool. No big deal.

Owens
September 6, 2007, 08:35 AM
I wonder if attending school board meetings (en mass) and calling the administration on the carpet would have the effect of reigning in some of this lunacy? Just a thought.

hemiram
September 6, 2007, 08:54 AM
One of my friends has a son who is a Jr in HS. We were talking about how insane these crazy rules are getting, and we mentioned to the kid that we did the following:

1. Carried large pocketknives to school every day, sometimes several!
2. Took our own pills, when we wanted to, shared them, and nobody cared.
3. Often took cap and blank pistols to school when we were in grade school to show them to friends. I had a copy of a S&W model 19 that looked totally realistic. It was solid metal, and weighed more than a real one. Sadly, I never saw one like it again. I bought it in Chicago. One of my teachers saw it and just played with it all day doing all kinds of dumb stuff with it. I dropped it and broke it when I was in HS. :(
4. Had BB guns in our cars in HS.
5. Were allowed to leave school for 90 MINUTES from 11:30, until 1:00 by OURSELVES every day for lunch! When we were SIX!

And we thought they had crazy rules then. I'm so glad I'm not in school now, and don't have any kids in school, I know I would be in trouble for one reason or another, if I did.

Geno
September 6, 2007, 09:44 AM
Owens:

It could (possibly) help to attend Board meetings in that the Board determines how follow state and federal law, via implemented policy and procedure (P&P). The P&P determine how agressively the adminhistrators follow the policy of enforcing these laws. Note the difference between the law and the policy as detailed herein. It's a classic case of if 2 Aspirin are good, 4 must be great!

Gene

Owens
September 6, 2007, 10:05 AM
Doc 2005:

Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand from reading prior posts, the law:

Zero tolerance requires that the student:
1) knowingly bring a weapon to school
2) the item must truly be a weapon (not a picture of)
3) the student must have brought the weapon with the intent to commit harm to people and/or property.

The P&P (in practice):
Pictures = nope!
Plastic army men with guns = nope!
Looks like gun, must be gun = yep! Outa Here!

It is the administrators of the P&P that need some time in the woodshed with a hickory switch, not the students.

I am only deducing and possibly wrongly, that you are either active or ex administration. If so it appears that you would be exempt from the woodshed:D

Steve499
September 6, 2007, 10:06 AM
The poor kid gets a felony charge and won't be carrying guns for the rest of his life now

As long as he's not 17 yet, any record he gets out of this won't count against him. The only time kids have an adult record for offenses committed is when they are declared adults for legal purposes, always due to some particularly heinous crime. I have been generally opposed to the way nothing a kid does, criminally, seems to have any real consequences, but in a case like this one, it's a good thing.

SteveS
September 6, 2007, 10:53 AM
I guess I came out of a great place. We had a no tolerance weapons policy at my school, but i carried a knife from day one of Kindergarten through Graduation. Almost daily in high school my knife was borrowed by a teacher. I wound up giving him one when I graduated. I just graduated in 2003 also.

I just read through my daughter's school handbook and a knife like the one described in the OP would have been ok to carry under current school policy.

Zen21Tao
September 6, 2007, 11:38 AM
How about these golden nuggets:

http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/zerostup.html

I was going to post a few, but I just couldn't choose which ones were the best. They are all utterly ridiculous, to the extent that they would be funny if they weren't true.

Some of the Rampant Stupidity
* Fifth-graders in California who adorned their mortarboards with tiny toy plastic soldiers to support troops in Iraq were forced to cut off their miniature weapons.


* Rubber bands are a controlled item at Young Middle Magnet School of Mathematics, Science & Technology in Tampa FL.In a December newsletter, the Buffalo Bulletin, administrators warned parents and students ...

"There have been recent incidences of students at our school using rubber bands as a method of projecting objects at other people."

"Rubber bands are not permitted at school. If students are in possession of rubber bands for any reason they will be subject to consequences that may include out of school suspension."

"When rubber bands are required for classroom use, they will be provided and collected."

What's next, banning of ball point pens and soda straws as the students switch to deadly spit balls?


* "A 13-year-old student in Orange County, Fla., was suspended for 10 days and could be banned from school over an alleged assault with a rubber band..." "Robert Gomez, a seventh-grader at Liberty Middle School, said he picked up a rubber band at school and slipped it on his wrist."

"Gomez said when his science teacher demanded the rubber band, the student said he tossed it on her desk."

"After the incident, Gomez received a 10-day suspension for threatening his teacher with what administrators say was a weapon..." "The district said a Level 4 offense includes the use of any object or instrument used to make a threat or inflict harm, including a rubber band."


* "Two boys, ages 9 and 10, were charged with felonies and taken away from school in handcuffs, accused of making violent drawings of stick figures."

"The boys were arrested Monday on charges of making a written threat to kill or harm another person, a second-degree felony. The special education students used pencil and red crayon to draw primitive stick figure scenes on scrap paper that showed a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, police said."


* VA: Joyce Heath said her 8-year-old son returned to school yesterday after a seven-day suspension for carrying a butter knife to school with his lunch. Nicholas, a third-grader, initially was suspended for 10 days and faced the possibility of being placed in disciplinary classes for a year."

Heath said she packed a butter knife in her son's lunch along with a package of peanut butter and jelly on Oct. 1. 'I didn't think about it,' she said.

(Caution - In Some California Schools, Posession of a Peanut is grounds for expulsion - honestly ... )


* A Texas school district tried to expel a 16-year-old high school student for a year when a butter knife was spotted in the back of his pickup truck.


* Wisconsin: A sixth-grader gets suspended because of a science project. The project involved cutting an onion. He brought a kitchen knife to school.


* Texas: This zero-tolerance idiocy comes from Ft. Worth. Cory Henson plays baseball on the Diamond Hill-Jarvis baseball team. In the trunk of his car is his baseball equipment, including aluminum bats. In the front seat of his car we have a souvenir baseball bat. It is made of wood and 8” long. That’s not as long as a piece of copy paper is wide. Ft. Worth government school officials decide that the 8” bat is a weapon! The real aluminum baseball bats aren’t.


* Missouri: It is just a month after the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. A fifth-grade student draws a picture of an airplane flying into a building. Suspended.


* A third-grader has a brother serving in the Army in Afghanistan. The proud third-grader draws a picture of his brother. The drawing shows his brother with a gun. Suspended.


* Havre [MT] Public Schools Superintendent Kirk Miller said an 11-year-old student brought an unloaded .22-caliber pistol to Sunnyside Intermediate School with the intent to turn it over to school authorities. The child immediately took the weapon to the school principal, Miller said. The gun was missing a part and could not be fired.

Havre police responded at 8:51 a.m.. and took the juvenile to the police station for questioning. He was issued a summons on a charge of possessing a weapon in a school building, police said."


* Seven fourth-grade boys in Centennial, Colo., were sent home from Dry Creek Elementary School for pointing their fingers at each other like guns in a game of army-and-aliens on the playground.


* Three seventh-graders in a South Side Chicago public grade school were charged with possession of a controlled substance with intent to deliver after school officials found them selling plastic bags of purple powder for a quarter each.

It was grape Kool-Aid powder. They told school officials it was grape Kool-Aid to no avail, said their attorney, Michelle Light.

"They were rounded up and hauled off down to the police station," Light said. "No one ever suggested it was anything but grape Kool-Aid."

Even when a lawyer from the national firm of Baker & McKenzie stepped in, prosecutors refused to drop the charges and wanted the boys to agree to counseling. After three months, prosecutors finally agreed to test the purple powder. It was Kool-Aid. Charges against the boys were dropped.


* A Florida high school student tape recorded a chemistry lecture against school policy. Was she reprimanded and sent back to class with a stern lecture? NO! She was criminally charged under the state Wire Tap law.


* A 12 year old girl gets a year in custody for sexual assault for going on a "Play Date" with two 11 year old girls.


* Schools are banning dodge ball and tag because the games encourage "violent behavior."


* Some schools are removing any references to the military from their libraries, and some high schools are banning military recruiters.


* Elementary students in Texas and Louisiana have been suspended for pointing pencils and saying "pow" and drawing pictures of soldiers. A fifth-grader in St. Petersburg, Fla., was arrested for drawing pictures of "weapons."


* Students in Mississippi were held in jail for throwing peanuts at one another.


* "Terrorist threat" criminal charges were filed against two 8-year-olds in Irvington, N.J., for "playing cops and robbers with a paper gun."


* A young boy is suspended from elementary school for pointing his finger at someone and saying "Bang." It seems the school's Zero Tolerance rule extends to "Pretend" guns, including fingers.


* Another school will let kids point fingers, but only if they have a "Permit."


* 6 year old tossed out of school for bringing in his father's pager for show and tell. It seems it's classified as drug paraphernalia.


* A Boy Scout (excellent 'A' student) returning from camp was suspended from school because he left his axe and knife in his car along with the rest of his camping gear.


* An 11 year-old girl was suspended for 10 days from Garrett Middle School in Atlanta. It seems that the (10 inch 'bead type') chain connecting her key ring to her Tweetie Bird wallet was in violation of the school's "Weapons Policy."

slow944
September 6, 2007, 12:59 PM
When I was a Cub Scout leader a CS had to earn their right to carry a Scout knife before they were allowed to have it with them. So now things have reversed and you can't even posess a knife at all on school grounds?? I remember bringing my Dad's German Officer's Sword for show and tell. LORD HELP US.

MachIVshooter
September 6, 2007, 02:09 PM
Oh how I wish that was more common. I very much dislike going to bars because I come out at the end of the night smelling like an ashtray. I could only tolerate the smoke as long as I was properly, um, sedated. While I could tolerate the smoke after a few drinks it made hitting the dartboard a bit difficult.

Complaining about smoke in a bar is like bitching about the noise at a shooting range. If it bothers you, don't go.

Agreeing with smoking bans is not dissimilar from agreeing with gun control. It's still the government telling you what you can or can't do.

They passed just such a smoking ban here in CO. It irked me, especially knowing that the same folks that voted for it are the kind that will vote in favor of any legislation that doesn't negatively impact them. I will just laugh at these people when they finally pass legislation regulating cell phone useage or some such. Maybe then they'll understand why we should never let the gub'mint decide who can use what and when.

Zen21Tao
September 6, 2007, 02:32 PM
Agreeing with smoking bans is not dissimilar from agreeing with gun control. It's still the government telling you what you can or can't do.

I agree 100%. I personally believe that a business owner should be free to run his or her business as he or she sees fit. People can voice their disagreement with certain policies or practices by taking their business elsewhere. That is how a free market should operate.

Deer Hunter
September 6, 2007, 02:55 PM
I was given corporal punishment for stepping 2 and a half feet into the campus parking lot (one-A school, here. My gradudating class was 42), opening my car door, grabbing my sandwhich, and stepping back "on campus".

I caught hell for it. And this is a public school where just a few years back our principals still carried shotguns in the backs of their trucks. Times have changed in the course of only 8 years. This was in 2007, mind you.

Nolo
September 6, 2007, 08:08 PM
Madness.
How do we fix this stuff?
Madness.

cambeul41
September 6, 2007, 09:00 PM
Not long ago (given my age, that could be years) a student wore a “Never Take a Knife to a Gun Fight” shirt to class. He later admitted that he had done so to see how I twitched.

My twitch was to compliment him on the shirt and to give him a list of gunfight rules. http://www.thegunzone.com/gunfighting.html

jaholder1971
September 6, 2007, 11:10 PM
All these are reasons my wife and I won't be having children.

I'd be the school's worst nightmare.

Nolo
September 6, 2007, 11:19 PM
All these are reasons my wife and I won't be having children.
Oh, contrare, my friend, these are all excellent reasons for you to have kids. Why? So that you can raise them according to your standards and your values. If you don't raise any children, there'll be some gun-grabbing fiend who will. Carry on the legacy! I will, hopefully tenfold (if my future better half will let me... :evil:)

STW
September 6, 2007, 11:44 PM
I've carried a pocket knife virtually every day since the 2nd grade and gave one of those little Swiss Army knives (1.5 inch blade) to our daughters. Oddly enough, one of them had to stop carrying hers when she became a school teacher because of the zero tolerance policy. Even the teachers weren't exempt.

She hasn't quite bought into the theory. She kept a target with many 9mm holes in it on her frig so boys would have the proper respect.:D

Barr
September 7, 2007, 02:49 AM
I think that this punishment is unjust and undeserved. If the kid just had a pocket knife in his car and not on his person the school should have no grounds for this. If it was a gun in the car for after school hunting the school might have some very shaky ground to stand on but a pocket knife is ridiculous. If he had the knife on his person in the school, they might have had some shaky ground to stand on. It was a multi-tool to boot, can anyone say Leatherman?

jeepmor
September 7, 2007, 06:55 AM
My friends use to brag about how sharp I could get my knife. We'd be in class and someone would say, "Hey man, show them how you can shave your arm hair with your knife again."

In woodshop, it picked many a sliver out of mine and others hands, and it even trimmed some fuzzy dado joint edges because the school did not have the sharpest tools on campus, I did. And no one ever batted an eye because no one was ever in danger.

Having a son on the way now at 37, and having grown up where the rifles and shotguns were proudly displayed in said truck gunrack in highschool, I see future principals and I are probably going to have some long talks.

Why can't our administration concentrate on behavioral issues, not whether or not a student has a implement that can draw blood, but rather whether he has chosen to draw blood or shown intent. America is really starting to suck when I read this kind of poop.

Houston Tom
September 7, 2007, 07:11 AM
I got in trouble once for a pocket knofe at school me and a friend had it out playing chicken (throwing it and seeing how close we could get to the others foot). I got jerked up by the collar dragged to the office got my bottom tanned and my parents called. What waited for me was way worse than prison and I lost the knife. granted I was in 4th grade at.

In HS nearly every vehicle had a rifle or shot gun anf most boys wore a folding buck knife in a sheath.

just sad where we have gotten too

coat4gun
September 7, 2007, 09:13 AM
I have a theory that this kind of "no tolerance" policy is actually creating criminals, not reducing them. All people have a built in sense of what is right and just. The kids know this is wrong and unjust... and falling victim to this type of injustice will push some of them over the edge. I know it boils my blood to hear about it.

This is one of the many reasons that my wife and I have accepted the responsibility of homeschooling both of our sons since kindergarten. One is now an honor student in college and the other will graduate from Homeschooled High School this year. Both have owned knifes since they were 8 and firearms since they were 12.

This madness needs to stop...

GTSteve03
September 7, 2007, 09:16 AM
Time for round #2! When does the madness end? Oh yeah, when we get rid of public school administrators... :fire:

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4285931&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

Sprayberry H.S. Teen Charged with Felony for Knife at School

Last Edited: Thursday, 06 Sep 2007, 11:41 PM EDT
Created: Thursday, 06 Sep 2007, 10:44 PM EDT

Michael Needham, 17, says he was charged with a felony for unknowingly bringing a knife onto Sprayberry High School's campus.

Reported By: Charles Molineaux

MARIETTA, Ga. (FOX 5) – A high school athlete says Cobb County school police have put his chances of a college scholarship and his entire future on the line over an honest mistake. The student is facing felony charges after a knife was discovered in his car.

Seventeen-year-old Michael Needham said he had nothing to hide when officials at Sprayberry High School did a random search of his Jeep.

The search turned up a buck knife. Needham's father said it was a knife that Needham forgot to remove after a camping trip.

Needham was arrested on felony charges for bringing a weapon onto school property.

"Until I was in jail, I didn't really realize. Wow, I can't believe this is happening," said Needham.

"The absolute punishment is insane. I look at zero tolerance, it's crazy," said Needham's father, Don.

Both father and son said the real trouble has only just begun. Needham was a starter for Sprayberry's football team. Now that he has been charged with a felony, he has now been banned from the team, just when he could be trying to win scholarships for college.

"I'm suspended for 10 days, I understand that, but to throw away the rest of my life for having a knife that I didn't know about?" said Needham.

Sprayberry administrators said they couldn't comment on a student's disciplinary issues. A Cobb County School representative said bringing the knife to the school was simply against the law and the law doesn't give the school any discretion.

A school system spokesperson said that if the circumstances were innocent, a judge should understand and reduce the charges but Needham and his father said that every day they wait, it endangers his chances.

"As seniors, we have meeting about schools and scholarships and things for the future, and I don't know what lies in my future because of this," said Needham.

Needham was arrested two weeks ago and he has been sidelined ever since.

Needham's father said the case was assigned to a district attorney and a judge Thursday and they hope to get the charges straightened out before the nine weeks of the high school football season run out.
Ruining future college careers, helping to create a society of young felons, this is madness! :cuss:

SteveS
September 7, 2007, 09:23 AM
In MI, the zero-tolerance policies are coming from the legislature. Following Columbine, they wanted to be seen as 'doing something.' While I am sure that there are some schools that would institute them on their own, I know there are plenty that don't like being made to enforce them.

Mannix
September 7, 2007, 09:26 AM
What the heck was he charged with? He had a pocket knife, and it wasn't even on his person!

This stuff is so stupid :banghead:.

juantew
September 9, 2007, 01:12 PM
He got suspended? Around here carrying a blade to school carries a four year prison term.

It's so bad that even the twenty-somethings don't even understand why one would want to carry a pocket knife. Much less, pack.

Badkharma
September 9, 2007, 05:38 PM
I graduated HS in 1999 - not THAT long ago - and all thru school swiss army knives were standard fare. Nothing ever happened.

In fact, get this: our high school class of 180+ (the boys only - girls got something else, forget what) got FULL SIZED LEATHERMAN tools, complete with the blades, yes. They had our school name and graduating year imprinted on the handle. It was awesome, I still have it and keep it as a back-up tool in my car. This was a gift FROM the school itself. And one step further, it was a private christian school...

Times sure have changed. And not for the better.

Avenger
September 9, 2007, 07:36 PM
I carried my pocketknife in school from about the middle of second grade on. Not only did I not get in trouble for having it, the one time I got in big trouble, the principal told me, "Now take your knife outta your back pocket so I won't break it with the paddle." I'd been sitting since before he entered the room.

OMG I just remembered, in middle school our 8th grade shop project was to make stocks for CROSSBOW KITS. The principal (not the same as the grade school one) actually suggested this! In retrospect it wasn't so smart, as the last day of school resulted in the backstop of the baseball field getting kinda perforated....

Officers'Wife
September 9, 2007, 07:56 PM
The more I read about the excesses in public schools the happier I am about being homeschooled.

gyp_c2
September 9, 2007, 08:52 PM
...if this had happened when I was in school, whoever was responsible would have had their ass handed them by my Mother...
...I shudder to think what would have happened if the Male Parental Unit got wind of it...He'd have kicked my ass for not kicking their asses...geez...
What a buncha' horse-hockey...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

RioShooter
September 9, 2007, 10:50 PM
Gregory Peck talks about how when he was 12 he used to run around the woods and fields with his 22 rifle

I did that with my cousin and his friends. One of my best childhood memories. To put this is perspective, that was in 1963.

gfd_703
September 10, 2007, 06:43 PM
1980 was the year, my AG teacher actually required every student in his class to have and carry a pocket knife. He would even have knife checks. Our senior year for homecoming each class dressed as a different group, we were cowboys. I carried a pair of colts and a 12 gage double around all day.
Now get this we loaded blanks the night before and had gun fights in the hall between class. That afternoon after school was the parade. One classmate's dad was the bank pres,so with his help we robbed the bank on the way by and left town with money bags full of shreaded paper. Knives were often given as prizes in school contest. Every year the Ag class gave our advisor a gift, one year it was a Marlin lever action. I took up the collection and went to the hardware store and bought it myself. He was so proud he took it around and showed it to the other teachers and kept it hanging on his office wall at school. How did we get where we are now?

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 10, 2007, 06:58 PM
During high school I kept a single-shot .410 in the trunk of my car that I'd use (or at least try to use) to take doves and/or rabbits after school. Interestingly, I never thought about killing anyone with it.

But this particular incident reminds me of a similar one that happened in the Dallas area a few year back. A high school kid (an honors student with an exemplary academic and behavior record) had been installing new speakers in the rear deck of his car the night before school. He was using a little steak knife to strip the speaker wire insulation and forgot to pick it up from the rear floor where he'd dropped it last. The next morning the school rent-a-cop was patrolling the parking lot, peering in through student car windows when he spotted the steak knife. The principal was notified and, in accordance with a similar "no tolerance" district policy the honors student in question was suspended and forced to attend an alternative school (read, "school for dead-beat thugs") for the remainder of the year. Completely screwed up his academics, and all because of a policy that did not allow for any human judgement or common sense.

USAFNoDAk
September 10, 2007, 07:07 PM
I guess after they found the knife, they quit looking for any more weapons. That would explain how they missed the 2 foot tire iron in the trunk, used to jack up the car, pop the hub caps and remove the lug nuts. Which is a more dangerous weapon; a knife with a 3 inch blade or a 2 foot combo tire iron, lug wrench? I know which one I'd rather face in a fight. Sheesh. This is just nutso, especially when the knife was in his car, not on his person. Most people have a very dangerous tire iron/lug wrench in their car too. When do they start the unannounced searches to round them up from students' cars?. This is bizzarro world.

If you enjoyed reading about "Zero Tolerance Weapons Policy strikes again!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!