What caliber for rabid black bear?


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MaterDei
September 6, 2007, 07:20 AM
HAGERSTOWN - A rabid black bear trying to rip out a window air conditioner lost its tug-of-war with a terrified housewife when her husband blasted the beast with a shotgun, the woman and a state wildlife official said today.

The bear rushed the house after Charlotte Stanton yelled out her screen door to try to scare it away from a goat pen. Stanton, 39, of rural Grantsville in Garrett County, said she was losing her tussle with the 134-pound sow when Michael Stanton pulled the trigger.

"I finally yelled at my husband, because I couldn't hold on to that air conditioner much longer," she said. "It seemed like forever, but I'm sure it was just seconds."

The load of buckshot didn't kill the bear, which lay bleeding and moaning in the yard of the Western Maryland home for about 30 minutes Aug. 29 before a state Natural Resources Police officer arrived to remove it.

All four family members -- including daughter Caitlin, 10, and son James Winebrenner, 15 -- will receive a series of rabies shots because of their exposure to the animal's blood and saliva, Mrs. Stanton said.

"We cleaned up the blood and stuff from the house," she said today in a telephone interview. "All of us had pretty much blood on us."

Michael Stanton, 49, won't be charged with a wildlife violation because the state allows killing bears out of season to defend people and livestock, The Cumberland Times-News reported.

The bear was the first known case of a rabid black bear in Maryland, said Harry Spiker, who heads the state's bear management program. Rabid bears have been confirmed in Pennsylvania and Canada, he said.

Spiker said the agency tested the bear for rabies because she was so aggressive.

"That behavior was just completely out of the ordinary," Spiker said.

Stanton said bears often come into her yard and most are easily chased away. But now, "when I see a bear in the yard, I'm not going to think twice about running for the house or even getting a gun out," she said.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-bear0905,0,5543864.story

I don't know why the guy didn't put the bear out of its misery.

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grizz
September 6, 2007, 07:28 AM
.17 HMR :scrutiny:

cpttango30
September 6, 2007, 07:49 AM
For a rabid bear I want a one shot kill, nothing smaller than a 45/70. with a 500 smith mag pistol for a BUG.

I have been upclose and personal with a few rabid animals. One cat war rounding around her cage in the normal circles you see on the floor the cat was running from the floor up one side across the top down the other side and then he would start all over again.

I would get a big rifle and an even bigger pistol if I were them people.

JamisJockey
September 6, 2007, 08:33 AM
12ga with slugs. There is a reason Alaskan guides use them for bear defense.

rero360
September 6, 2007, 08:39 AM
well after just reading Stephen King's Cujo again, I'd say nothing short of a 20mm rifle. but hey, I'd also perscribe a MOAB for that darn clown in Derry. ;-)

230RN
September 6, 2007, 08:48 AM
12 gauge 1 oz slug = 438 grains
Caliber is 0.73 inches.

Pick or interpolate yer velocity:

1400 f/s = 1907 ft-lbs
1300 f/s = 1640 ft-lbs
1200 f/s = 1300 ft-lbs
1100 f/s = 1175 ft-lbs

That's why I wanna buy a rifled slug barrel for my shotty.

---------

Energy = (velocity times velocity x weight) / 450240

The denominator varies slightly. Weight in grains, velocity in feet per second, energy in foot-pounds.

trueblue1776
September 6, 2007, 08:52 AM
One slug would probably work, thirty rounds of .223 would be more fun. :evil:

Legionnaire
September 6, 2007, 08:59 AM
12 gauge slugs. But I'm with MaterDei; why didn't the homeowner finish the job? I understand shooting to stop a human perp, but once you've decided to shoot the animal, the humane thing to do is put it down.

Double Naught Spy
September 6, 2007, 09:04 AM
Maybe they weren't feeling too humane after being attacked by it?

4v50 Gary
September 6, 2007, 09:16 AM
I think the caliber was the right choice. I would prefer slugs but the 00 buck seemed to have neutralized the threat ceased. To be humane, I would have finished it off.

MikeJackmin
September 6, 2007, 09:29 AM
Looks like a good excuse to pick up one of those new .375 Rugers.

yesit'sloaded
September 6, 2007, 09:35 AM
Mosin Nagant wouldn't be too shabby in this situation. Smith and Wesson makes an awesome "bear attack" kit that comes with a .50 pistol..hold on maybe I can find the link...http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=49906&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y
everyone should have one of these...just like a smoke detector. I would never want to fire one of those unless I was actually being chased by a bear.

CDignition
September 6, 2007, 10:20 AM
An AR-10 with 20 round mag would do ok also..:)

taliv
September 6, 2007, 10:23 AM
never heard of a rabid bear before.

MakAttak
September 6, 2007, 10:24 AM
One reason they may have not finished the bear off is they were afraid it may recover while they went out to shoot it and attack again.

Another reason they may have refrained from shooting it, (if they were able to think ahead) is, given the way the state of Maryland operates, they may have been afraid of being cited for a hunting violation.

22-rimfire
September 6, 2007, 10:29 AM
Those folks are going through the rabies shots. Ugh. Not plasant. They did okay. I don't know why they didn't finish off the bear.

1911Tuner
September 6, 2007, 10:53 AM
105mm...

crankshop1000
September 6, 2007, 11:05 AM
9mm with the gun held sideways.

AndyC
September 6, 2007, 11:06 AM
Jedi mind-trick - "This is not the food you're looking for..."

Geno
September 6, 2007, 11:06 AM
A 12 gauge is about as good as stopping power gets. I would prefer the 1.25 Oz. slugs

Zen21Tao
September 6, 2007, 11:20 AM
4" S&W 500

(Bullet size comparison from right to left: .22lr, .40S&W, 10mm, .45acp, 500 S&W)

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6079/500swphoto5ad.jpg

TexasRifleman
September 6, 2007, 11:24 AM
To be humane, I would have finished it off.

I would too but you can understand the hesitation to do so with all the uproar harming an animal can cause. These days it seems you are more likely to be in trouble for shooting a dangerous animal than a dangerous human.

RyanM
September 6, 2007, 12:15 PM
For those who think a shotgun with any old slugs is fine, I suggest reading:

http://www.african-hunter.com/Rifle_Choice_4_Dangerous_Game.htm

Lions are about the weight of a large black bear, or small brown. Leopards the size of a rather small black, and much thinner-skinned. If slugs don't even work against them, why would you have better hopes for the same load against a larger, heavier-skinned, heavier-boned animal?

Brenneke slugs work okay against leopards, but not lion. So basically, even the best slugs wouldn't be a guaranteed stop, against a large bear. Yet a standard caliber high-power rifle is fine for both.

I think I'd rather have an autoloading .308 or .30-06 for bear defense.

glockman19
September 6, 2007, 12:31 PM
Nothing less than a .44 mag. A Shotgun with slugs, a .460, or .50 caliber would certianly do the job.

Chipperman
September 6, 2007, 12:44 PM
Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.







All your bears are belong to us.













Sorry. :neener:

seeker_two
September 6, 2007, 12:49 PM
I have to disagree with everyone here.....rabid black bears shouldn't be allowed to own guns....

:neener:


I'm for the 12ga. At contact distance, 00 Buck IS a slug.... :what:

mpmarty
September 6, 2007, 12:53 PM
12ga slugs are way over rated if you just study the energy figures in the post near the top of this topic. My 45/70 has between two and three times the power of your 12ga. 300gr @ 2400 fps or 405gr @ 2200 and if you want to get real serious, the "new" 45/70 aka 450 Marlin.

littlegator
September 6, 2007, 01:10 PM
9mm with the gun held sideways.

The bear at issue came from the wood, not the hood. :rolleyes:

Actually, I think Bert Gummer has the right idea:

see, http://figuresoffortune.bravehost.com/myPictures/burtontruck.jpg

Neo-Luddite
September 6, 2007, 01:11 PM
Hey, regarding the lack of follow up shot to finish the bear off--maybe they didn't have any more shells. You would be suprised how many folks have an old single gun loaded 'for bear' just in case and no extra shells.

230RN
September 6, 2007, 01:24 PM
12ga slugs are way over rated if you just study the energy figures in the post near the top of this topic. My 45/70 has between two and three times the power of your 12ga. 300gr @ 2400 fps or 405gr @ 2200 and if you want to get real serious, the "new" 45/70 aka 450 Marlin.

But your .45-70 is in your closet.

My 12-ga in is mine.

Wanna trade? (Guns, not closets.) :)

Zen21Tao
September 6, 2007, 01:27 PM
A black bear's (or lawyer's) worst nightmare:

:eek: :what: :eek: :what:
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8370/liberalgunscareti4.jpg

230RN
September 6, 2007, 01:55 PM
....

Joshua C
September 6, 2007, 03:44 PM
Full auto AK-47 with a 75 round drum filled with soft points should do it....

Marlin 45 carbine
September 6, 2007, 03:54 PM
my 12 ga. reamed out for 3.5" 000. it's a SXS. they ain't no black bear ever walked that will live thru that at 20 ft. with neck shot. I've shot 3" saplings into with that.

bigun15
September 6, 2007, 04:16 PM
I would call in an artillery strike.

Beachmaster
September 6, 2007, 04:38 PM
Phased-plasma rifle in the forty watt range should work!

Tully M. Pick
September 6, 2007, 04:50 PM
Marlin 1895GS loaded with Garrett Hammerheads.

That bear will know who is higher on the food chain after one of those, I guarantee it.

birddog
September 6, 2007, 04:54 PM
well after just reading Stephen King's Cujo again, I'd say nothing short of a 20mm rifle. but hey, I'd also perscribe a MOAB for that darn clown in Derry. ;-)

Absolutely great post!! "We all swim down here Rero!!!!!"

To address the OP:

I've killed 4 black bears, and a dozen rabid raccoons. Rabid animals are different, and fearless. I would NOT want to tangle with a rabid black bear. 30-06, 180 grain. My BUG (since I don't own a 500) would be my .44mag mdoel 629 (incidentally, my BUG when I'm bowhunting for bears).

ilcylic
September 6, 2007, 05:28 PM
yesit'sloaded: I think I just found my new CCW piece! ;)

arctictom
September 6, 2007, 05:31 PM
I use a 458 when shooting backup or looking for naughty bears. For defense 45-70 with Garrets as suggested is an excellent choice.

Agouti
September 6, 2007, 05:37 PM
They let it live so their children could finish it off, and gain the XP. It's called power leveling. All good parents do it.

yesit'sloaded
September 6, 2007, 05:40 PM
I really don't want to thin of the recoil on that one, especially with a barrel under 3 inches.

Elm Creek Smith
September 6, 2007, 05:50 PM
Machinegun, .50 Cal., M85, on high rate, from the cupola of my buttoned up M60A3TTS*. If that didn't do the trick, I got a 105mm for back-up.

ECS

*(Yes, I know I'm showing my age. At least I didn't bring up my M48A5 or M60A1 (Not RISE, not passive.))

Gunnerpalace
September 6, 2007, 06:28 PM
500 S&W Magnum (shorty)

12 GA (your choice pit bull,dragons breath, or fletchete)

or my personal favorite a M1928 with "Da Switch", .45's in full auto form are the form of stopping power I would use in this situation.

230RN
September 6, 2007, 07:12 PM
Another reason they may have refrained from shooting it, (if they were able to think ahead) is, given the way the state of Maryland operates, they may have been afraid of being cited for a hunting violation.

I think there have been a number of posts / threads dealing with folks possibly getting in trouble for putting a creature out of its misery after they hit it with a car or whatever.
----
EDIT: I think they might have been on PDO, though.
----

Apparently, in most States, putting an injured wild creature down has to be done by a Commissioned Peace Officer.

It's sad when the Government assumes incompetence on the part of the citizens, isn't it?

In this case, I probably would have used another shot and just claimed I shot it twice the first time aroound --or that it got up and started attacking again. But it all depends.

I probably would have double-tapped it the first time, though.

GunTech
September 6, 2007, 07:17 PM
Another vote for 458. 500gn soft points.

Personally, I''d like something like 9.3x74R in a double, but most don't want to spend $4K on a walkabout rifle, or pack around 10 pounds of gun.

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/img/ArmsPreview/S.892.jpg

black bear
September 6, 2007, 07:24 PM
I posted this before in another "bear thread"

I camp in the bear woods often and alone, no matter how heavy is my pack, I always find room to take my "Bear kit".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/blackbear11784/bearkit.jpg

It consists of a perimeter alarm (with a trip cord and screaming siren) and an additional driveway alert gizmo (An infrared motion sensor that sound an alarm).
That is the "early warning part", for defense I have a Colt Anaconda .44 Magnum and a Borealis 1050 lumens flashlight.
The light will blind the bear (it is 1050 lumens) giving me enough time to shoot with precision.

Not to go groping around in the dark for my gun and light, I have a one AA LED light (about 5 lumens) going on the whole night hanging from the ceiling of my tent.

I have had some experiences with bears around my tent in the past, so I consider my precautions not too extreme.



All the best
Black Bear

DoubleTapDrew
September 6, 2007, 07:27 PM
said she was losing her tussle with the 134-pound sow when Michael Stanton pulled the trigger.

:confused: Was it a cub? Thats pretty light. I wouldn't want to get into hand-to-paw combat with a rabid bear but my dog almost weighs that much.

I'd use a Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle BB gun with a compass in the stock and a thing which tells time. Take it out Ralphie style.

skinewmexico
September 6, 2007, 07:30 PM
Geez........it was a 134# sow, not an Alaskan grizzly or Cape Buffalo. The Red Ryder probably was the right gun.

woof
September 6, 2007, 07:35 PM
You mean you all don't already "have" your rabid bear gun at the ready? You gotta be careful you don't grab your rabid raccoon gun by mistake though.

brickeyee
September 6, 2007, 07:55 PM
"Those folks are going through the rabies shots. Ugh. Not plasant. "

Not a big deal at all.
About a dozen shots over 3 months.

The old abdominal shots went away 30+ years ago.

Banta
September 6, 2007, 08:11 PM
"I posted this before in another "bear thread"

I camp in the bear woods often and alone, no matter how heavy is my pack, I always find room to take my "Bear kit"."



That's a good idea, I never thought of that. Early warning sure beats waking up with the bear standing on top of you.

BobMcG
September 6, 2007, 08:22 PM
There's no way I'd trust a normal big game weapon and loading for this... :eek:

I'd get out my special, limited edition "Rabid Bear 5000" with it's patented "Rapid Rabid Repeating Action" and down it instantly! :cool: That measly, rabid bear wouldn't know what hit it! :p

TehK1w1
September 7, 2007, 12:49 AM
I'd go with anything chambered in Mcmillan FatMac. It's a 20mm cannon case that has been shortened and necked down to fire .50 BMG rounds.
415 grain case capacity, 750 gr bullet at 3400+FPS!!!

Alternately, how about a 729 Jongmans?
.50 BMG round necked up to fire .727 bullets
Think 1048 gr bullets at 2265 FPS...

cbsbyte
September 7, 2007, 01:02 AM
12 Gauge. Enough said.

Malodorousroadkill
September 7, 2007, 05:00 AM
How about a saiga in .308 loaded up with 180grain round nose?

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