Bullets by prescription?


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fletcher
September 6, 2007, 12:14 PM
As far as gun control proposals go, this is WAY out there:

http://media.www.dailytarheel.com/media/storage/paper885/news/2007/09/06/StateNational/Pharmacist.Proposes.Gun.Control.Measure-2952909.shtml


Media Credit: DTH photo illustration/Allie Mullin
David Work, former head of the N.C. Board of Pharmacy believes that effective gun control in the United States can be achieved through requiring doctors to write prescriptions for patients to buy ammunition.


Since retiring from leading the N.C. Board of Pharmacy, David Work is promoting a new role for medical prescriptions: gun control.

Work, a former UNC professor of pharmacy law, said he thinks the best way to reduce the number of gun-related crimes is to regulate access to ammunition in the same way doctors regulate drugs - by having physicians prescribe bullets.

"It's a serious proposal," he said. "It's thinking outside the box."

The U.S. ranks highest in the world for civilian firearm possession - a study by the Small Arms Survey, an independent research project in Geneva, found that there are 90 civilian-owned guns in the U.S. for every 100 citizens.

Ammunition is easier to buy than guns, Work said, and individuals who obtain guns illegally can buy bullets at a gun dealer easily if they're 18 or older.

Work said gun and ammunition laws have dangerous loopholes, as illustrated by the Virginia Tech campus shooting that killed 32 students and faculty in April.

The criminal record of the shooter, Seung-Hui Cho, was misleadingly clean from a law-enforcement perspective, Work said, but a professional physician quickly would have spotted Cho's mental instability.

"A family physician knows his or her patients," he said.

Paul Valone, president of Grass Roots North Carolina, a gun-owner's advocacy group, supports the easy availability of ammunition and said it prevents a black market that would be impossible for law enforcement to combat.

"Ammunition is very easily produced," he said, adding that he made about 10,000 rounds of ammunition per year when he shot competitively. "In the unlikely event that they succeed in restricting ammunition sales, they will create a black market in ammunition sales that will make meth labs look pale by comparison."

It's the duty of the courts to decide who's fit to bear arms, he said, "not an arbitrary determination by a physician or a psychologist on whether someone is fit to exercise their rights."

Lisa Price, executive director of North Carolinians Against Gun Violence, said she agreed with Work's intentions but not the prescription-based proposal.

"I can see how doctors could see good and bad aspects of someone's character, but I just think this would be difficult to work out," she said.

Price said she preferred a compromise between the current system and Work's idea. She proposed that the rules to buy ammunition should be the same as those to buy a gun.

"We've already got a model of checking into someone's background," she said. "I think the same laws that apply to buying a gun should apply to buying bullets."

Work said a new system is necessary, even if it's not his prescription-bullet proposal.

"Because what we've got does not work for the safety of the people."



Contact the State & National Editor at stntdesk@unc.edu.



This is priceless:
Ammunition is easier to buy than guns, Work said, and individuals who obtain guns illegally can buy bullets at a gun dealer easily if they're 18 or older.
Then what makes you think they won't also obtain ammunition illegally?

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strat81
September 6, 2007, 12:19 PM
Take two bullets and call me in the morning? Who comes up with this stuff?

K3
September 6, 2007, 12:23 PM
It's the duty of the courts to decide who's fit to bear arms, he said, "not an arbitrary determination by a physician or a psychologist on whether someone is fit to exercise their rights.

I disagree with this. The Constitution doesn't mention having anyone decide who is fit to exercise their inherent rights.

DoubleTapDrew
September 6, 2007, 12:23 PM
Will my HMO cover my ammo?

Doctors kill more people than "gun violence" each year. They are in no position to talk.

K3
September 6, 2007, 12:25 PM
Lemme see...

Are there generic substitutes?
What's the copay for brand name cartridges like Federal?
Do they do 90 day supplies by mail order?
How much ammo constitutes a 90 day supply?
What about FDA approval?
Will they start selling ammo at Walgreen's?

fletcher
September 6, 2007, 12:28 PM
New merger for ammo manufacture? GlockSmithKahr?

Bad joke, bad joke... ;)

TexasRifleman
September 6, 2007, 12:31 PM
Can I get 5 dollar copay on .308 and M193?

Hmm, it has possibilities.....



(this is the dumbest idea i have heard in a long time)

eliphalet
September 6, 2007, 12:43 PM
makes as much since as the idiot that was wanting to put diapers on animals a few decades ago. The world is full of fools if some one will give them attention.

30 cal slob
September 6, 2007, 12:54 PM
i'm sure at some point .22 LR will go over the counter

gak
September 6, 2007, 12:54 PM
Odd that people think they can legislate themselves into safety. After paying huge taxes for law enforcement and law creation we are still no safer from someone who decides to break these laws. I fail to see why people still believe there is some undiscovered magical law that will prevent all crime.

Instead of spending more money on more laws, and driving up the debt with more supposed "enforcement" agencies, how about:
1. Cutting government bureaucracy/out of control spending.
2. Enjoying life as free men/women, but being willing and able to defend that life rather then spend billions of dollars just so you can ask the crook to hold on for 10-20 minutes so you can dial the police, give them directions and explain the situation, then wait for them to show up to save the day.

Up here in Canada if you're a law-abiding citizen that has never broken the law, yet you arm yourself so that there is a chance you might live when attacked, you are breaking the law and will be thrown in jail.

We have a case in the courts right now where a man refused to give pan-handlers money, so they stabbed him to death. Now the superior courts just overturned the remand order and granted low bail to one of the attackers "because time in solitary confinement for the killer would be difficult." Wow, how hard a time is it for the victim WHO IS DEAD ?!

Please don't let yourselves in the U.S. get as looney and government-controlled as we are in canada...

iiibdsiil
September 6, 2007, 12:54 PM
Regulating Xanax, Vicodin, Percocets, Oxycodones, and the rest has really slowed down the people from still using them illegally... :rolleyes:

rdhood
September 6, 2007, 12:59 PM
"We've already got a model of checking into someone's background," she said. "I think the same laws that apply to buying a gun should apply to buying bullets."

I strongly believe that this is what is coming at some point. A NICS check everytime you buy ammunition. Ammunition/primers/powder could only be purchased through an FFL. Of course, that means no mail order ammunition, and a NICS fee everytime you go to your local gun store for ammo. But since 65% of the folks in these forums see nothing wrong with background checks, they won't mind doing one for ammo, too.

fletcher
September 6, 2007, 01:00 PM
I strongly believe that this is what is coming at some point. A NICS check everytime you buy ammunition.
We could expect prices to skyrocket if that happens.

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 6, 2007, 01:06 PM
Bah, this is just a silly attempt to get his 15 minutes by proposing something suggesting that his profession is somehow the be-all, end-all of solving the world's maladies. He's getting exactly what he wants, his name and his silly idea passed around.

littlegator
September 6, 2007, 01:13 PM
...and obtaining drugs by prescription has completely erradicated illegal drug use, right? :rolleyes: Looks like the good doc has been taken some of his own medicine... :scrutiny:

Kimber1911_06238
September 6, 2007, 01:16 PM
great idea, since people never get their hands on prescriptions illegally.

Claude Clay
September 6, 2007, 01:31 PM
.thinking outside the box.......more like outside his mind. so, people dont forge perscriptions? doctors dont 'hand-out' scripts & pharmacies have room to inventory ammo. LMAO. this isnt even worth of saturday nite live skit.

K3
September 6, 2007, 01:35 PM
I strongly believe that this is what is coming at some point. A NICS check everytime you buy ammunition. Ammunition/primers/powder could only be purchased through an FFL. Of course, that means no mail order ammunition, and a NICS fee everytime you go to your local gun store for ammo. But since 65% of the folks in these forums see nothing wrong with background checks, they won't mind doing one for ammo, too.

Do you think the number is that low? I'm thinking a bit higher. :)

MilsurpShooter
September 6, 2007, 01:40 PM
So no more Milsurp ammo because it's past it's expiration date? :rolleyes:

Justin
September 6, 2007, 01:41 PM
He's getting exactly what he wants

Merciless mocking on the internet?

You'd think that if he wanted that, he could have at least tried to top The Star Wars Kid.

MachIVshooter
September 6, 2007, 01:51 PM
I don't even know where to begin with this one. I guess I could start by pointing out that anyone who tries to apply their professional experience directly to a completely unrelated issue is an arrogant bufoon.

What he has done would be like me (an automotive technician) suggesting that people undergo an annual state inspection to be sure that they are fit to be on our streets, and those that fail must recieve surgery to correct the problem.

I don't know why some people think you can apply the same solution to every problem.

Blackbeard
September 6, 2007, 01:56 PM
Paging Dr. Kevorkian....Dr. Kevorkian to the ammo counter.

Doggy Daddy
September 6, 2007, 02:03 PM
Justin
Moderator

He's getting exactly what he wants

Merciless mocking on the internet?


I believe the name "David Work" should become as famous as "Lee Paige". Two profound examples of profound idiocy.

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 6, 2007, 02:29 PM
Merciless mocking on the internet?

All publicity is good publicity. ;)

Hazel
September 6, 2007, 02:33 PM
What the hell does ammunition have to do with medicine? This is definitely among the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

"I think the same laws that apply to buying a gun should apply to buying bullets."

Make sure that people who buy bullets also have a gun out of which to shoot them. Can't have people just chucking 'em at each other, like they've been doing. :neener:

Zen21Tao
September 6, 2007, 02:46 PM
a former UNC professor of pharmacy law, said he thinks the best way to reduce the number of gun-related crimes is to regulate access to ammunition in the same way doctors regulate drugs - by having physicians prescribe bullets.


And, the best way to reduce the number of pedophiles that solicit children on the internet is to have doctors prescribe internet uses.

We can also cut down the numbers of written death threats and cases of libel by having doctors prescribe pens, pencils, paper, and other forms of communication.

Oh, and lets not forget those poor children that get started down that road to crime by playing violent video games, listening to explicit cds and watching violent movies. Perhaps we can have doctors can start prescribing these various forms of entertainment. Come on... its for the children.

Professor K
September 6, 2007, 02:50 PM
Yeah, cuz you know, prescription only painkillers are just SO HARD to find without one. Right....

romma
September 6, 2007, 02:52 PM
"Dr, this ammo you prescribed is just not cutting it! I think I need something stronger".

"Wow, you went through all that ammo I prescribed last week already"?

"I think it is becoming habit forming for you son"!

"But, here is some sample packs of Winchester White Box to tide you over for a bit. Try shooting some snap caps and dry firing to help with your withdrawals after that"...

After that try an ice bath for the muscle cramps!

romma
September 6, 2007, 02:54 PM
Cartels in Columbia and Mexico won't do stuff like assemble illegal cartridges for street sales in th USA either?

ArfinGreebly
September 6, 2007, 03:03 PM
I seem to remember a post of mine from a while back where I point out that "mental health" could be used to abridge the Second Amendment without having to pass a bunch of new laws.

In that discussion, it was pointed out that this was a silly idea.

My response was that, as silly as it might be, that didn't mean someone wouldn't try it.

And here we are.

Q.E.D.

mpmarty
September 6, 2007, 03:08 PM
I believe we need to amend the BATFE to the BATFEP Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives and Pharmaceuticals. Only BATFEP approved medicines with a valid sporting use could be prescribed by doctors!:neener:

fletcher
September 6, 2007, 03:09 PM
^ Sounds good. They still have 21 unused letters to get working on.

Hazel
September 6, 2007, 03:11 PM
^^ "BATFEP" is fun to sound out too. :)

MrPeter
September 6, 2007, 03:13 PM
So what happens if you get an overdose of bullets? Can you overdose only with bullets that start with a "4"? What if you took 16 9mm's instead of 7 .45's? I guess would depend on if you took it topically or orally or as a suppository...?

Is it true that 9mm is a gateway caliber to other, heavier and more serious centerfires?

:neener:

W.E.G.
September 6, 2007, 03:24 PM
The problem is bullets.

http://www.snappedshot.com/uploads/Iraq/capt.sge.ald45.100707172425.photo04.photo.default-512x341.jpg http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/images/uploads/afp_iraq_bullet.jpg

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=69a_1188504992

bad shooty bullets... very bad

Ready2Defend
September 6, 2007, 03:30 PM
Great. I'll be having people showing up at my ER at 3am first day of deer rifle season saying they need a refill on their hunting caliber. "Sorry doc, I used up my last ammo sighting in the gun and forgot to save some for the hunt. By the way, where is the closest 24hour drive thru ammo store?"

230RN
September 6, 2007, 04:54 PM
Lemme see...

Are there generic substitutes?
What's the copay for brand name cartridges like Federal?
Do they do 90 day supplies by mail order?
How much ammo constitutes a 90 day supply?
What about FDA approval?
Will they start selling ammo at Walgreen's?

Will you be able to buy it from Canadian companies?
If you load your own, would you have an "Ammo Lab?"
If they raid your Ammo Lab, will they cart your children off to Social Services?

Zen21Tao
September 6, 2007, 05:05 PM
But, under the BATFEP, would those pain killers that are strong enough to actually work be classified as "assault meds" and thus banned in most states?

Also, what about waiting periods? I can see many injuries either heeling on their own or becoming infected and worse before the waiting period to get medication is up.

RoadkingLarry
September 6, 2007, 06:49 PM
"It's a serious proposal," he said. "It's thinking outside the brain."

there, I fixed it for him...

Standing Wolf
September 6, 2007, 09:04 PM
"It's a serious proposal," he said. "It's thinking outside the box."

Too much beer on the Wheaties again.

Atticus
September 6, 2007, 09:24 PM
Since retiring from leading the N.C. Board of Pharmacy, David Work is promoting a new role for medical prescriptions: gun control.

He is a piece of ....Work. Thinking outside of the box is a great understatement.

.cheese.
September 6, 2007, 10:17 PM
I'm ALL for this. Great idea.

Why? It'll take care of the ammo expense issue! I already know plenty of doctors who can write prescriptions if I need it.... and I have health-insurance..... HELLO?!

(ok.... in all seriousness.... it's dumb.... for the same reason that I don't go to a gun range for a prostate exam)

SSN Vet
September 6, 2007, 10:23 PM
Hi, I'm David Work from the N.C. Board of Pharmacy, and I'm either a complete idiot! or just an average liberal who wants to abuse government power to un-enpower the serfs.

carpediem
September 6, 2007, 10:24 PM
Ambulatory Pediatric Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Academy of Ambulatory Care Nursing
American Medical Women`s Association
American Medical Student Association
American Medical Association
American Association for the Surgery of Trauma
American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
American Association for World Health
American Nurses Association
American Association of Neurological Surgeons
American Public American Health Association
Association of American Medical Colleges
Black Mental Health Alliance
Congress of Neurological Surgeons
National Black Nurses` Association
National Association of Chain Drug Stores
National Association of Pediatric Nurse Associates & Practitioners
National Association of Public Hospitals
National Association of Children`s Hospitals and Related Institutions
National Association of Community Health Centers
National Spinal Cord Injury Association
Physicians for Social Responsibility
Society of Critical Care Medicine

Guess what they have in common, according to the NRA

telomerase
September 6, 2007, 10:25 PM
doubled, sorry

telomerase
September 6, 2007, 10:26 PM
Why There's No Cure for the Common Cold

I shovel telomeres for a living. My friends in the computer industry are always asking me: “Why can’t you biotech guys cure cancer? Or aging? Or the common cold? What do you do with all those billions of government research dollars?”

Well, it’s time to confess: Biologists bought three stuffed mice and two petri dishes in 1974. These are recycled in staged publicity photos in such high-profile popular glossies as Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Cell, and Eur J Gastroenterol Hepatol. Our much-hyped “gene sequencing,” “chromosome imaging,” etc. are all done on Photoshop by companies in Taipei . All the rest of the money goes to yachts, scuba equipment, and private islands in Fiji for all postdocs and research associates. That’s why medical researchers always look so tanned and vigorous.
--------------------------------------------
OK, seriously: If the computer industry were running under the same conditions as biotech, this is how it would work:

There would be a Federal Data Administration (FDA). Every processor, peripheral, program, printer, and power cord made in or imported into the USA would have to obtain FDA approval. This would require an average of 19 years of safety testing on lab rats and clinical trials for effectiveness on nerd volunteers with informed consent, before prescription for general human use is allowed. Any change of any kind to any chip, ergonomic keyboard, or line of code would require re-approval of the entire system and any hardware or software that could in principle be connected to it via Internet, intranet, or hand-carried disk.

In the medical system, this sort of approval can be done for only a bit over $802 million per drug or medical device (Tufts study, 2001). So it might cost only a few times more when applied to a global industry producing next-generation silicon chips. Anyway, how can anyone put a price tag on safety? Think of the children!

Today even someone who dropped out of college could legally own a large software company. To remedy this unconscionable state of affairs, state licensing boards would be created to require American Mainframe Association (AMA) membership for all computer professionals. This would ensure that all programmers go to college and postgraduate school for at least eight years, and then serve multi-year nerdships and residencies before being allowed to practice independently. Thus programmers would be fully prepared to start writing BASIC programs by age 28-30, and attain full professional status by their 40s.

These AMA professionals would prescribe for consumers the “right” hardware and software (within the prescribing and cost limits of the appropriate HMO, see below). To guard against improper (“recreational”) use of computers, all information products would now require a prescription from a professional.

A Data Enforcement Agency (DEA) would be empowered under the asset forfeiture laws to confiscate the property of smugglers and users of illegal data processing paraphernalia, such as that used in so-called “video games” or “palm pilots.” The DEA would also have the responsibility of ensuring that no unapproved data flows in or out of our borders.

Then the IRS would make buying computers for the home use of employees a deductible expense for employers (but not for employees), as is true of health insurance today. Companies would be forced to buy computers for their employees through Hardware Maintenance Organizations (HMOs), instead of allowing the employees to buy them directly.

Finally, the Federal government would hire hundreds of thousands of programmers and chip designers to work in government-run “computer research,” controlled by NIH, the various armed services, and other fountains of innovation. Private “cybertech” companies could have whoever was left over . . . if they could figure out how to con investors into funding companies which were rarely allowed to sell their products.
--------------------------------------------
If we had really let government run the computer industry this way, there would be no Intel, IBM or Apple. There would be no chip industry. There would be no Internet. The NIH would be funding hundreds of labs to develop better vacuum tubes.

Now, all you programmers who are snickering at the poor dumb biologists: let me point out something. You, personally, aren’t made of doped silicon. You are made of DNA and some other junk banging around inside lipid bilayers. If you want to improve your life in any meaningful way, you need to be able to buy stuff to upgrade your DNA system.

Some organisms, like Bowhead whales, already manage to make DNA systems work for over 200 years. That means their cancer control is 1,000 times as good as ours (twice the lifespan times 500 times the cell number), and their aging control is at least twice as good. A real free-market biotech industry could pirate these already-existing DNA programs and sell them to you cheap (whales don’t get royalties, and DNA replicates as easily as chips do).

So, since you computer guys have all the money, it would behoove you to use a little of it to get rid of the FDA and all the rest of the medieval guild nonsense that encrusts the biotech industry. Then you would finally see some progress against cancer and aging.

Oh, the common cold? We could wipe out the existing varieties, but RNA and DNA hackers will always resequence new types. Viruses will always be with us; you just have to continuously update your immune system’s definitions.

230RN
September 7, 2007, 02:08 AM
Re mpmarty's "BATFEP"

BATFEPSBNMATVSATOHNTYMOYNNWLYPWWYWKBYMGAHWBBDPQTQB


"Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives, Pharmaceuticals, Scissors, Brickbats, Noisy Motorcycles, All Terrain Vehicles, Slingshots, and All The Other Hairy Nasty Things Your Mommy or Your Na-Na Wouldn't Let You Play With When You Were a Kid Because You Might Get All Hurted With a Boo-Boo or Disturb the Peace and Quiet of Their Quilting Bees."

Now we're getting somewhat closer to Utopian Ideals.

Be a good little boy, now.

MachIVshooter
September 7, 2007, 02:18 AM
You think they'll offer medicartridge for retirees?

Regolith
September 7, 2007, 02:46 AM
Deaths (per year) due to Medical Malpractice: 195,000 (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/11856.php)

Deaths (per year) due to firearm related injury: 28,827 (http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm)

So, who needs to be controlled, now?

Sylvan-Forge
September 7, 2007, 02:49 AM
....

Cannonball888
September 7, 2007, 08:52 AM
Painkiller bullets---the friendly ammo.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/246/462233589_80b842ad6c.jpg?v=0

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