Crossbows: 'archery' or 'shooting?'


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Odd Job
September 6, 2007, 12:22 PM
What is your opinion...is using a crossbow 'archery' or is it 'shooting?'

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News Shooter
September 6, 2007, 12:25 PM
I don't even think compound bows constitute archery

wheelgunslinger
September 6, 2007, 12:53 PM
This topic has been flogged into dust on various archery forums to the point that posters have been kickbanned or put on probation. It's quite an emotional topic for the archery world.

Personally, I subscribe to the stringgun camp's philosophy, at the moment. A stock, sights, and a trigger mechanism preclude it from being archery.

The main challenge with archery is aligning both the bow and your body in the correct position. The crossbow removes this challenge by its design.

I don't believe that crossbows are evil. I don't think that those who disagree with me or use them and love them are the spawn of Loki. And, I'm glad that hunting regulations provide exceptions during archery seasons for the handicapped to use them instead of a bow.

But, imho, crossbows are shooting and not archery.

MachIVshooter
September 6, 2007, 12:57 PM
Well, the act of using a bow is still considered shooting, whether it is a longbow, recurve, compound or crossbow.

Beyond that, I don't think we can really consider the use of a crossbow to be archery. Closer to using an airgun, really, in that it stores energy created by the user, but does not require that the operator resttrain that energy.

Colorado DOW only allows crossbows during rifle season, so I guess I'll go with that.

MD_Willington
September 6, 2007, 01:36 PM
I'd consider a crossbow to be a hybrid.. how eco-friendly.. LOL

ArmedBear
September 6, 2007, 01:38 PM
My state's Fish and Game laws consider hunting with a crossbow to be "shooting," unless you have a physical disability that precludes using a bow, in which case it's "archery."

How's that?

REOIV
September 6, 2007, 01:41 PM
It is shooting but with an arrow.

Though I really don't see why there is so much fuss about them.

They were invented to make shooting a bow easier for someone with less skill and also invented to be able to shoot a bow much more powerfully.

News Shooter
September 6, 2007, 01:43 PM
Robin Hood out shot the Sheriff's men with crossbows with his long bow.
I know because I saw it in a movie

benEzra
September 6, 2007, 03:15 PM
Both.

Brian Williams
September 6, 2007, 03:51 PM
neither

Bazooka Joe71
September 6, 2007, 06:29 PM
You need a neither option.

And a both option.



I vote neither though.

Gunnerpalace
September 6, 2007, 06:33 PM
Well lets see here it fires a "bolt" or also know as an arrow so it is archery look at its historical context, and on a side-trip these have been banned throughout their long history, in MI you need to be disabled and get a special permit to hunt with one (and when you go to get that permit you get the whole "well since you are disabled you really should not be hunting" deal). Basically the Crossbow is a shoulder fired bow.

exar
September 6, 2007, 06:38 PM
It's a bow. It's just a bow made for the King's conscripts. A conscript with a crossbow can much more cheaply kill a knight. It could take a good decade to become proficient with the English long bow. To the OP, I say archery.

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 6, 2007, 06:40 PM
I'm pretty sure it's not a firearm either way.

ArfinGreebly
September 6, 2007, 06:43 PM
You forgot "catapulting" as a category.

The slingshot, the trebuchet, the crossbow, the onager, the ballista (crew served crossbow), and probably some others I've forgotten are all tension-powered weapons (as opposed to combustion-powered).

The bow (longbow, short bow, recurved bow, even the compound bow) is unique in that a) the tension is entirely in the bow body (as opposed to the e.g. the band in a slingshot) and b) the trigger is the archer's hand & fingers. The string harnesses the tension of the bow and allows the archer to impose tension on the bow.

So, a "hurling' device that uses springs, twisted cable, counterweights, elastic bands, and the like, especially one having a trigger mechanism, would be a different class.

I would class them as "catapults," allowing archers to have the purity of their sport.

[Note: I be makin' this up as I go. Feel free to embellish.]

Cosmoline
September 6, 2007, 06:44 PM
This topic has been flogged into dust on various archery forums to the point that posters have been kickbanned or put on probation. It's quite an emotional topic for the archery world.

Really? Wow. It seems pretty clear to me. Shooting requires the release of pressure either from compressed air, black powder explosive, or smokeless powder propellant. Archery requires the relase of tension from a string of some sort. So maybe the catapult is a form of archery, but the crossbow is not a form of shooting. Where's the pressure? Where's the barrel? Triggers and scopes do not make the firearm.

Whether the crossbow or compound bow or whatever are allowed as weapons for hunting in a particular GMU at a particular time is a completely different issue. I'd like to see the special seasons include any primitive non-firearm weapon from spears to selfbows. But exclude compound and cross bows.

RoadkingLarry
September 6, 2007, 06:45 PM
A real hot button topic in traditional archery circles. As someone who makes primitive selfbows from Osage and Hickory and hunts with them in the regular archery season a crossbow is a far cry from what the folks that worked to get the archery seasons in place intended. No different than any other tool but IMHO no place in the regular archery season fro able bodied people.

deadin
September 6, 2007, 06:54 PM
Shooting requires the release of pressure either from compressed air, black powder explosive, or smokeless powder propellant. Archery requires the relase of tension from a string of some sort. So maybe the catapult is a form of archery, but the crossbow is not a form of shooting.

I don't know, I always "shoot" an arrow, not "arch"? it.:D

Cosmoline
September 6, 2007, 06:57 PM
Isn't it "loose"

CWL
September 6, 2007, 07:06 PM
It's all shooting. "shoot" was used as a word long before firearms were adopted.

People get "shot" by arrows, bolts, bullets.
Nobody gets "arched" by an arrow...

This is clearly differentiated from other missle weapons:
Nobody gets "shot" by a spear, javelin, dart...
Nobody gets "shot" by a catapult, ballista, onager, trebuchet...
Nobody gets "shot" by a bomb, cannonball, mortar round, artillery strike, rocket barrage...

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 6, 2007, 07:07 PM
This is clearly differentiated from other missle weapons:
Nobody gets "shot" by a spear, javelin, dart...
Nobody gets "shot" by a catapult, ballista, onager, trebuchet...
Nobody gets "shot" by a bomb, cannonball, mortar round, artillery strike, rocket barrage...


Not true, I was once shot by an atlatl. :(

ArfinGreebly
September 6, 2007, 07:35 PM
Etymology Dictionary:

archer
1297, from O.Fr. archier, from L. arcarius, from arcus "bow" (see arc). Also a 17c. name for the bishop in chess. Archery is c.1400, from O.Fr. archerie.

arc
c.1386, from O.Fr. arc, from L. arcus "a bow, arch," from PIE base *arqu- "bowed, curved" (cf. Goth. arhvazna "arrow," O.E. earh, O.N. ör). Electrical sense is from 1821.

Deciphered:
A bow, in its original form, formed a curve, or "arc" in the lingo of the day. So the bow is the arch and what you do with it is archery.

So, if you really wanted to push it, any tension-catapult device, including the crossbow and ballista using an "arch" as its tension spring could be said to be included in "archery."

However, for most people (and especially "archers") that won't fly.

Gun people have a similar issue with "pistol" and "revolver" ("well, that's not a pistol, it's a revolver!") even though the original packaging for Colt's Revolving Pistol made no such distinction.

So, I'm guessing, if an "archery" club wanted to filter out crossbows, they'd have to make it a definition in the bylaws.

The phrases ". . . including the following [-list-], but excluding the following [-list-] . . ." and ". . . hereinafter referred to as . . ." spring to mind.

You just can't leave it up to "everybody knows," 'cuz "everybody" knows something different.

Zeke/PA
September 6, 2007, 08:16 PM
Archery is archery and a crossbow is suppen' else.
Zeke

Hogfan1911
September 6, 2007, 08:23 PM
All I know is I bought one because I found it in Bass Pro's outlet store for like 75% off. Was still in the box wrapped in plastic. Thought about selling it for a profit, but Dad has an old elbow injury that keeps him from using a regular bow (any type), so I kept it so he could use it.

Atticus
September 6, 2007, 08:30 PM
Neither really. I use fat, heavy bolts to shoot through heavy brush and light thin bolts for long shots and better expansion. :evil:
It launches an arrow of sorts. It requires less skill than a bow for sure, but still has many of the same limitations. I don't see how anyone could construe it as shooting.

Roadkill
September 6, 2007, 09:41 PM
I don't think it really matters to the deer. Dead is dead.

Timthinker
September 6, 2007, 09:49 PM
The crossbow has been a controversial weapon since Pope Innocent III banned its use against Christians in the 12th century. But why has this weapon received such scorn? The answer is simple: the crossbow requires less skill to use than a conventional bow. This means that virtually anyone can become proficient in its use in far, far less time than it takes to master a bow. This fact upsets archers today as much as it did in ages past. Hopefully, this very brief explanation reveals a major reason why people dislike the crossbow so intensely.

Does the crossbow fall within the world of archery? The answer is yes, because the crossbow is still a bow whether people like it or not. Now, I respect the time, effort and dedication that conventional archers devote to their sport. Such dedication, in my opinion, speaks well of them as individuals since it can develop perserverance and other positive personality attributes. But none of this can change the fact that the crossbow remains a bow that shoots an arrow. This is the way I view the matter.


Timthinker

Odd Job
September 7, 2007, 03:24 AM
Interesting responses, gents.
Opinions seem to be equally divided at the moment.

Cannonball888
September 7, 2007, 08:11 AM
Firing fletchettes out of my shotgun is archery :p

StuckInMA
September 7, 2007, 10:11 AM
Both. You still "shoot" things when using archery equipment.

The projectile and the way it's fired puts it in with archery IMO. It's just a different type of archery.

Just like shotguns, rifles, black-powder guns and handguns. There's a world of difference between them but they are all considered hunting with a firearm.

If you really want to muddy up the waters throw in mechanical releases and bow mounted scopes for compounds. :D

Picknlittle
September 7, 2007, 03:00 PM
Archery is archery and a crossbow is suppen' else.

As with anything, as technology advances, tools of every kind get transformed to make them more effective or easier to use.

I've had purist tell me that if it ain't recurve, it ain't a bow! Oddly, they aren't thinking of how advanced a recurve bow is when compared to the most primitive bows.

I've shot competitive bowhunting archery with longbow, recurve, compound, cam bow and with the exception of recurve and longbow, I've competed with and without sights, mechanical releases and stabilizers. Each has it limitations, each has it's learning curve. to be good with any of them, one must do the same thing a handgun or rifle shooter must do,..... practice. I've never competed with a crossbow, but I have toyed with one or two and they also have a learning curve if one wishes to be proficient.

TN, allows the unrestricted use of crossbows during archery season. I'm glad, because bad shoulders prevent me from practicing archery.

It's still a set of limbs with string and arrow. It ain't rifle shootin and ya still gotta git purdy darned close to git cher critter with it.:)

In every sport where technology advances design, someone thinks whomever is using that technology is cheating. Just ask some of the purist BP shooters how they feel about anything that doesn't use a flash pan!

amprecon
September 7, 2007, 07:22 PM
There is no "fire" in this arm. The crossbow is a technological evolutional progress in weaponry.

turtlehitman
September 7, 2007, 07:34 PM
I said archery, but I think it is both.:)

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