[Mantis]

I need to get some new two way radios. The old FRS band radios I have do not work well in the mountains where we hunt. Can anyone suggest a radio that will work from a valley to the other side of a ridge where there is no direct line of sight? I'm looking for one you don't need a license for and hopefully under $100 per pair. Thanks.

[Avenger29]

As far as I know, line-of-sight is quite essential for FRS radios.

There aren't many options, license or not- even armature radios that are short-range FM (on the 2-meter band) use repeaters to deal with the line-of sight problems.

[wdlsguy]

Some ideas off the top of my head:
1) Satellite phone
2) Mountaintop repeater
3) Near Vertical Incidence Skywave (NVIS)

[GunTech]

Not exactly easy to pack around an NVIS rig, as propogation favors 80m for daytime NVIS. 132 foot dipole antenna anyone?

With FRS & GMRS, you would have to use something like a store and forward repeater. All UHF and VHF radios are line of sight.

[Stretchman]

Not necessarily. Ham radios work well. CB might work better. AM will propagate around hills etc, but at 27 MHZ you may experience a lot of noise. If you are looking for really solid comms in the mountains you have 2 options.

Sat Phone, which is expensive.

Mobile repeater. Which is also expensive, but it is a one time charge, and there's no cost per usage. Your vehicle can serve as the mobile repeater station. Many of the new mobile radios can do cross band repeat. The HTs can run about 150 for 5 watts, and the Dual band capable mobile unit around 300 to 350. You will have to study for and pass the ham exams in order to use the gear, but they are not too hard. You also need a circuit in your vehicle that will start and run your engine to recharge the battery in the event that you intend to use the radios a lot. It keeps the battery from running down.

That would be the cheapest and most reliable way to ensure that your comms are solid. But you may want to check with the local ham radio clubs. They may have a repeater that already covers the area you hunt from. Which means you can simply test, buy a couple handhelds, and be good to go.

[GunTech]

HF does not propogate around hills. Aside from something like tropospheric ducting it's all the ionosphere or something else physically reflecting radio signals. That's true of pretty much all radio waves, which travel in a straight line. The only way to get signals to 'go around' somewthing is to reflect them of something else.

CB radio (27 MHz) is 11 meters band, very close to the Ham 10 meter band. Propogation for booth is pretty poor right now. With the occasional opening.

You also need to be licensed to operate on ham frequencies. Tech to use VHF/UHF. General to use HF with a couple of exceptions

Tod, N7WD

[wdlsguy]

If the ridge is sharp you might be able to use knife edge diffraction. If the ridge is not sharp you might be able to use ground wave.

[Mantis]

Thanks !

[Neophyte1]

GunTech: spot on

[GunTech]

Thanks. I'd hope I'd know something about radios after being a Ham for 20 years with an Amateur Extra ticket.

For those who want portable, high quality radios, I recomments you get you technician license. There's no morde code and my daughter got hers at 10 years of age. It's not hard, and a 2m or 70cm handheld is so superior to those FRS/GMRS radios it's not even funny. And as noted, there are repeaters scattered all over the country.

For ruggeg use, and the radio we recommend for emergecy comm, take a look at the Yaesu VX170 2m. It's heavy duty, waterproof and has a very long lasting battery. It won't brake if you drop it, and you can find them for about $130.

http://www.qrz.com/hampix/d/w/n7wd.1157251351.jpg

[eliphalet]

No idea what your plans are but being this is a hunting thread. Probably unneeded but just a reminder, if your discussing game or game movements while hunting, 2 way radios are illegal, at least in this state. We do use the cheap ones for "hey where are you etc."?

[IA_farmboy]

I need to get some new two way radios. The old FRS band radios I have do not work well in the mountains where we hunt. Can anyone suggest a radio that will work from a valley to the other side of a ridge where there is no direct line of sight? I'm looking for one you don't need a license for and hopefully under $100 per pair. Thanks.

I don't think such an animal exists. Any radio that doesn't need a license is going to have very limited power and therefore limited range. Some people have communicated many miles with FRS but that was with line of sight and natural features (hills and/or the gound) as a reflector.

Those $100/pair radios are toys. Any radio worth talking on a hunt will cost at least twice that, personally I'd expect to spend at least $150 each. To do what you want you will need a license or some kind of subscription based service (cell phone, sat phone, pager, etc.).

I'm going to suggest avoiding subscription services, there are fees for use and unknown coverage. I think that you would be best served with getting some kind of radio license. Like Stretchman and Guntech I am also an Amateur radio operator. I can certainly recommend getting an Amateur radio license. Another radio license you should consider is GMRS. Those combination GMRS/FRS radios you will see in Walmart and Best Buy are to be avoided. Get a real GMRS radio with a detachable antenna and the capability to use repeaters.

An Amateur radio license is free but you have to take a written test (which costs less than $15) and is good for ten years, renewal is free and no re-testing if renewed within two years after expiration.

A GMRS license costs (IIRC) $70 and is good for five years, no test. Renewal costs another $70. Amateur or GMRS expect to spend $200 or more per handheld radio. Just the antenna can cost $40. The antenna is very important. I remember buying my first portable Amateur radio, it was quite deaf and mute until I bought an antenna that was more efficient than the one that came with it.

Like others mentioned before, barring some kind of serendipitous propagation, you will need a repeater. Cell phones and pagers work so well with so little power because there are repeaters everywhere for them, although most people call them "cell towers".

Single band repeaters are quite expensive ($1000+) but allow for use of cheaper, single band, handheld radios to use them. Amateur and GMRS single band repeaters cost the same, in fact most manufacturers do not differentiate between the two, program it one way its an Amateur repeater, program it another way and its GMRS.

Cross band repeaters are cheaper ($300+) but require more expensive ($300+), multiple band capable, handheld radios to use. A cross band repeater is Amateur only (barring commercial services).

If you look hard enough you will find store-and-forward repeaters for GMRS/FRS. THOSE ARE ILLEGAL. Not only are they illegal you will still be forced to use those crappy FRS toys to make them work, that is when they do work they do not work well.

I'm throwing around some big numbers for you to spend not to discourage you. You need to realize that is how much good gear costs. As a hunter I imagine you spent over $1000 on your weapon and ammunition, probably about $150 on just your boots. A radio is just another tool and expect to spend good money to get good gear.

[Mantis]

We use the radios when hunting so we can make sure we know where everyone in our hunting party is to ensure we have safe shooting lanes and to be able to communicate with each other in the outside chance someone gets lost. We also let each other know when we change positions, again for safety reasons. The area where we hunt is full of ridges, valleys and hills, so we usually have to relay messages from one person to the next since we can rarely hear every one at the same time.