I am making a semi auto pistol barrel


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Clark
July 7, 2003, 01:45 PM
I got some Parker Hale .308 Mauser barrels to play with.
I am cutting one in the lathe to be a Tokarev pistol barrel.
I think the way the commies made them was on the lath and then welded on the lug that is pinned to the link.

One problem I will have is the PH bore is .2985" and no stock pilot will fit.
I will have to pay extra for the 7.62x25mm Tokarev reamer.

Another is if I have a long bull barrel, there is no way to get the bushing on the barrel. I am going to have to make a bushingless tapered barrel.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=365203

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s&w 24
July 7, 2003, 02:17 PM
sounds realy cool. Why a tokarov and not a CZ 52? I will be very interested in the accuracy you get out of it!

Jim K
July 8, 2003, 12:01 AM
I have not checked my Tokarevs, but the U.S. way of making that type of barrel was usually by forging the whole thing, drilling the hole and then turning and milling the outside. Some were made in two pieces (like modern BHP barrels) but the bottom lug was always one piece with the breech part. Let us know if the welded on lug works.

Jim

Clark
July 11, 2003, 03:26 PM
I have TIG welded on barrels before, and it works.

I think other kinds of welding get the metal so hot that the heat treat is changed.

Jim K
July 12, 2003, 09:40 PM
I wasn't thinking of the heat treatment, I was thinking of the bottom lug breaking off, as it stops barrel recoil. But if you have welded them on before and know it is OK, then it should work.

Jim

Sunray
July 13, 2003, 02:44 AM
What you're doing is experimenting with odd stuff. You'll have to make everything. You obviously have the machining skills so making the parts you need shouldn't be a big deal.

Johnny Guest
July 14, 2003, 07:55 PM
As you are going to a great deal of trouble with machining and all, why not custom-make a bushing for the larger OD barrel. It APPEARS to me that this would be easier than fitting up a bushingless barrel/slide relationship on a non-production arm.

Best,
Johnny

Clark
July 15, 2003, 12:20 PM
Johnny,
I didn't think about the bushing until I was already into it.
I was going to use the stock bushing ~.5", but the bull barrel I want to maintain is ~.94", which is larger than the slide of a Tokarev. The bushing inside diameter would have to be larger than the slide the bushing must fit inside.

The barrel is probably not going to be a tight bushingless fit [given my poor machining skills], and I will have to go thought some hoops to accuraize for the 100 and 200m targets [drill and tap for some screws in the slide and expoxy to fit].

Today I am working on the scope mount. The idea is to I am making a scope mount to attach with drill and tap to the barrel and sweep back over the slide with a Weaver rail.
I have been thinking about making the Weaver rail integral with the mount, but I think now I will just do my standard trick and cut up a surplus Tapco AR15 riser and bolt it to the top of the mount.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=379341

Clark
July 27, 2003, 01:26 PM
Everyone who sees it in this state asks, "Is that a silencer?"
The answer is, "No, that is a bull barrel and it is heavy."
The barrel weighs 3.7 pounds and the scope mount another pound.

It doesn't shoot yet.
I have got the link on and the extractor relief cut, but I am still looking for a cheap reamer. The rental people don't have floating pilot reamers and the retail cost for the reamer is $175.
That Parker Hale .2985" bore is a real problem.
I hope the other guys are just screwing them into their Mausers and shooting .308 so they never have to put a pilot in the bore.

Clark
February 8, 2004, 10:34 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=399367

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=784771

P95Carry
February 8, 2004, 11:05 PM
This is intriguing .... and I am an engineer .. albeit - not much ''hands on '' these days. The lathe is languishing!!

Fascinating ....:)

Clark
February 9, 2004, 02:00 AM
P95Carry,
I am an engineer of 25 years, but a lathe operator for only a few hours.

I am mostly interested in the idea and the performance, not in making jewelry, like I have a choice with my skills:)

cpileri
February 9, 2004, 05:36 AM
Clark-
You have been at thsi awhile, how is it going?
The long barrel CZ-52/Tok is an interesting project.

Also, if you are somewhat inclined i have been looking for someone to make a custom Sig 220 barrel: interested in at least hearing about it?
C-

Peter M. Eick
February 9, 2004, 08:27 AM
Clark,

If you don't mind me asking, what field of engineering? I have followed your posts with intrigue over the years and as a geophysicist I am very curious.

Clark
February 9, 2004, 01:22 PM
The long barreled Tokarev project got constipated over money.
The Parker Hale surplus .308 Mauser barrels have .2985" bore, not the standard .300" bore. The replaceable pilot reamer in 7.62x25mm was a custom order $200. So I finally got a 30 Mauser reamer off the shelf with .299" solid pilot for under $100 last week. I am going to have to lapp out .0005" of the first 1.5" of the barrel.

I have a BSEE 1978 University of Wash.
I have been designing switching power supplies ever since.
I overload them until they blow up.
Then I fix what ever design weakness was the primary failure and overload them higher.
That trick has allowed me to make reliable designs in a short order.
Other designers put a statistical number in an oven and wait.
I just build one and blow it up right now and fix it right now and blow it up right now....

Despite all the guns and power supplies exploding around me, I have never experienced any pain from the blow ups. I have been shocked and burned by power supplies and kicked like a mule by guns, but I am still going.

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

Peter M. Eick
February 9, 2004, 05:52 PM
I would have guessed EE or ME. My wifes a CE and you seem more adventurous then CE's. Thanks for all the hard information. Your posts are fascinating to those of use with a physics/technical bent.

Clark
February 9, 2004, 06:15 PM
Peter,
Most of my adult male relatives are engineers.
Many of us are gun nuts.
Most of us are lousy spellers and lousy at music.
I think we have mutant brains.
I would never want to be a non gun nut or a non engineer.

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

Peter M. Eick
February 9, 2004, 06:59 PM
My family is the same way. All of us kids are Scientists or Engineers. I guess having both parents who are PhD's you tend to learn to think as a scientist. Thanks again for the very informative posts. I particularly like your high pressure loads. Knowing the "real" top end of a gun helps a great deal when I sit down and design loads for my guns.

Take care and keep safe!

Clark
July 14, 2004, 01:43 PM
OK,
It is ready to shoot.
I am going to shoot it without recoil spring.http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1117627

Clark
July 14, 2004, 01:46 PM
Here is another pichttp://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1117631

P95Carry
July 14, 2004, 02:04 PM
Shucks!!

Awaits report of results!:p

Kend
July 14, 2004, 11:21 PM
You can rent the 30 Mauser reamer here for $25, 4-D Products (http://4-dproducts.com/chamber_reamers.html)

Clark
July 14, 2004, 11:50 PM
I have a 2x7x32 Leupold Vari-II rifle scope on it.
I was using S&B 7.62x25mm factory ammo.
The chamber is reamed with a 30 Mauser reamer, but the differences are minute, and have to do with a shoulder angle on a shoulder that is barely visible.
I used no recoil spring.
I fed single shot without a magazine.

At 50 yards I shot two 5 shot groups; 2.1" and 2.5"
At 100 yards I shot one 5 shot group: 4.2"

Much better groups would be possible:
without wind
with a better rest
with a shooter who is a better shot with a pistol
with better ammo.

Black Snowman
July 15, 2004, 12:55 PM
Fairly impressive results none the less! What ammo were you using? The S&B?

Now, I have this idea for a completely new autopistol in a wildcat cartridge, you could just whip that up for me right ;) for free of course :D What would the time frame be on that? 10 or 15 minutes :p

Clark
July 16, 2004, 12:14 AM
At realguns there is the 17-357RG project:
http://www.realguns.com/

Joe does everything first class.
I try to do it on the cheap.

Black Snowman
July 16, 2004, 11:26 AM
I try to do it on the cheap.

I know I can't afford 1st class :D

Thanks for the link. It's been a while since I've been to RealGuns.

The .17-357 project sounds interesting. But I was wanting to go in a bigger direction. :D

Clark
July 16, 2004, 06:02 PM
If you want a fun and cheap project, convert a Tokarev to 9x23mm.
It can be done on a small lathe with a 64 piece drill set and a Tokarev 9mm barrel.
Buy some Win 9x23mm or Starline 9mm Supercomp brass, use your 9mm dies, and you are getting 357 mag full house loads from a semi auto.

I think the 9x23mm was more fun that the 7.62x25mm long barrel project.

Uncle Jaque
October 3, 2004, 11:33 PM
If that barrel is 18" or more, couldn't you legally attach a shoulder stock to it?

Over on GB we were casting about for ways to build a 7.62 X 25MM Carbine, and building up on a CZ-52 was one option discussed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/UncleJaque/CZ-52/CZ-52CrbnDrawJCC.jpg

What size drill did you use to rechamber that 9MM?
Did you grind the end back about a quarter inch as a "Pilot" and leave the shoulder square where it transitions back up to case dia.?

I want to do it to a CZ-52 9MM barrel I have, but I think I'll stay with LARGO on that. Someday may fool with such a conversion on my my Polish Tokarev if I can get a good deal on a 9MM barrel for it.

Are parts between various Countries of Mfr. of TOKS reasonably interchangeable?

cpileri
October 4, 2004, 06:16 AM
Not at all trying to slam, but why 9mm?
I thought the whole idea was to create a 7.62x25 carbine which is more-or-less unique in the marketplace?
There are lots of 9mm carbines?
C-

Uncle Jaque
October 4, 2004, 08:08 AM
I think I'm getting you a little confused here, cpileri, by running my ideas together. :confused: ??

The 7.62X25MM Carbine is a toatally seperate concept from the pistol converted to 9X23MM.

But now that you mention it... a 9X23 WinMag Carbine might be an interesting thought at that!:evil:

You may have started something, here!:D

cpileri
October 4, 2004, 05:56 PM
Well, happy to help out!
:)

I am still intrigued by the 7.62x25 carbine though.
C-

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