[jsalcedo]

I went to make a layaway payment at my local gun / pawnshop.

As always I had my Mak in a fobus paddle under a long loose fitting shirt.

I was making my payment and chatting with the fellow who sells guns to me all the time and he asks: "what gun are you carrying?" while pointing
at my hip?

This was in front of the store manager, another employee and a customer
further down the counter.

I said "I don't carry a gun. What are you referring to"?

The guy says: "well whenever I see a bulge under someones shirt I have to ask what gun they carry"

I told him it was my insulin pump and he kind of smiled, nodded
and went back to his business.

Don't get me wrong, I like dealing with this guy and I've bought at least 10 guns from him but I feel he was way out of line trying to get me to admit to the fact I was armed.

I'm also thinking about changing my carry method because now I'm always going to be worried about excessive printing.


Did I do the right thing?

Any suggestions?

[OF]

In that situation, I don't think I'd make a big stink, it being a gun shop and all - but I think it's quite rude to 'out' someone like that.

If it was just you and him in the store, no big deal, but with another customer...

- Gabe

PS: and yeah, I'd look into another carry rig :)

[geekWithA.45]

Insulin Pump!

Gotta remember that one!

[Carlos Cabeza]

Oh that,.................thats just my colostomy bag.:D

[WhoKnowsWho]

It's my battery pack? (Don't stop now heart!)

It's my cell phone?

It's my leatherman super ginsu version?

I don't think I would have cared in a gun shop, since people are already in there looking, I wouldn't care about other customers too. I would try and spread the word that yes, CCW is okay.

There actually was a guy last time I was out who saw my wife make a purchase and saw her give the CCW for the background check, and he was interested in knowing what he had to do to get one. I had no problem letting him know where we went and some of what is involved.

[jsalcedo]

I guess I was concerned mostly because here it is illegal for someone to reveal they are armed.

I didn't know the other gunshop employees and If I had said "yep got old makkie right here" they could have called the cops and had me arrested.

[olyAR73]

Someone in his line of work Im sure it pays to have a keen eye. Me being a gun enthusiast, Im sure I would have asked the same question.:cool:

[Tamara]

At my gun store?

I'd have probably said "The usual, why? Whatchoo totin' today?"

[Justin]

To my mind it seems like poor form to ask if/what a person is carrying, unless they're a friend or something.
Seems especially bad if it's in a public place.

[HBK]

You shoulda told him your were just happy to see him.:p

[oldfella]

***"A gentleman doesn't ask a gentleman/lady that sort of question"***

[Alan Smithiee]

"that? just my 3000 rounds a minute GE mini gun, you know, like Gov Jessie had in Predator".

best response to that question I ever heard, wish I had said it.

[MJRW]

"It'd be indecent exposure if I showed you what that was."

[Zedicus]

Saying it's your Cell Phone would probably be beleaved more.....
Unless it's a Sholder Holster.....

[Navy joe]

I'd never ask that in a gunshop, it's just an engraved invitation for the nimrod du jour to say "oh, just this little baby right here" while whipping it out at full draw speed and pointing it everywhere. I only ask about carry pieces of folks I know well and that I think can walk, chew gum, and carry a firearm at the same time.

[Ryder]

As though it were part of his job description? Who is instructing him to do that and why?

I kind of think most gun people know how to mind their own business and keep from sticking their noses into other's. When they can't or won't then "I have to know why!" :D

[Cosmoline]

"Oh, I'm just happy to see you."

[P95Carry]

I too feel that it was at the least ''insensitive'' when others in the shop. 'One on one' ... no probs by comparison. Much as we may try to avoid printing .. it can and does happen ..... but IMO that is not actually ''showing'' openly.

It is also here technically a ''no-no'' to show .. and if someone makes a big deal having seen then just possibly , the permit could be revoked. That however I would feel applies to a blatant display ...... and not slight printing.

My shop guy knows I carry ... I have always made it known to him ....... on one occasion I wanted to check my prospective P97 purchase for fit in my P95 Fobus paddle, feeling sure it would as they are ''twins'' .... so I asked him if OK. On his affirmative response I drew toward a safe direction .. dropped mag and cleared it .... then laying it all on counter.

After the fit check I reversed the process and reholstered ... he was quite happy about that. The shop being otherwise empty also made things more relaxed. Having the right sorta person to deal with in the gun shop is I find a great plus ...... and he knows it is conducive to good business too!

[Old Fuff]

He may have done you a favor. You need a different method of carry. Better to be "exposed" at a gunshop then somewhere else.

[45R]

Should have told him that was your colostomy bag........ :)

[Boats]

If he can "make" you so can a lot of other people. Not everyone's situational awareness sucks. I'd take it as an indicator that you may need to go IWB.

[Mannlicher]

I guarantee any gun shop I hang out in knows I carry. Some of the guys will darn sure mess with ya. Bet he was messing with you too. Personally, I won't visit a gunshop that prohibits patrons from carrying. Talk about hypocrisy.
:D

[Standing Wolf]

I'd say the guy was rude. Most people in most gun shops I've been in are more polite than average.

[cool45auto]

I agree that if it was just the gun shop employees then no problem. However he shouldn't have asked out in front of everybody like that. Your carry method is probably fine for every other environment, I wouldn't think anyone would notice but at a gun shop where they're used to looking for that sort of thing.

[nemesis]

Don't get me wrong, I like dealing with this guy and I've bought at least 10 guns from him but I feel he was way out of line trying to get me to admit to the fact I was armed.

You should thank him for the feedback. If I see someone walking around advertising that they carry, I usually feel that is an invitation for me to comment on it. It's obviously not a sensitive issue if you let the world know about it.

If you don't want me to ask the question, conceal your weapon.

[Crimper-D]

I usually carry a mousegun in a front pants pocket when out doing things like browsing gunshops... Really doubt that even a clerk in a gunstore could 'make' the outline.
He might make a wrong assumption as to _where_ I carry because I have my shirt untucked, but that's because I'm a SLOB, not packing IWB!:D :p :neener: :neener:

[jsalcedo]

If you don't want me to ask the question, conceal your weapon.

I've been carrying with this method for almost 2 years with no problem in banks, gunshops, jewelry stores,etc.. worst case it looks like a lump.

Anyway asking me to reveal I'm armed is asking me to commit a criminal offense. The guy knew I had a CHL as I have to use it when I buy guns
to avoid the wait for the criminal backround check.

If the guy really wanted to help me out he could have took me to the side and said I was printing and offered to sell me a new rig.

[Boats]

That guy, rude as you may perceive him, is probably the last guy who'd turn you in to the authorites for "flashing." Talk about what a bad business decision that would be!

[St. Gunner]

Pure capitalism, he was just trying to sell you a new carry rig or carry piece.:D

If you are worried about your gunshop guy ratting you out to the cops for exposing your piece, you need to find another gunshop. At my local shop if I buy new carry ammo, I swap out the mags right there in the store. If I am going in to buy a new carry rig, I take the gun with me and we try em right there at the store and I walk out with it in whatever I bought. I get cut slack by the guy because we have shot before, but I do wish he'd stick a drum in the corner of the shop full of sand to clear em into.

Course if I walked in and wasn't carrying, they'd probably run me out think I had been cloned by the BATF or something.

The guy probably did you a favor, you may thank him for it someday. I know my shop commented to me that I was printing bad, I was carrying a 4" barreled taurus .357 and when I would bend over or squat it was really printing. I thanked em and switched carry methods.

It isn't like it is some shameful act to be packing, or that being made by a guy that deals in guns for a living means you aren't being careful. Figure if he can make you, a cop can make you. Use it as a learning experience.

[jsalcedo]

That guy, rude as you may perceive him, is probably the last guy who'd turn you in to the authorites for "flashing


I agree but his manager (rude snotty attitude lady) and a customer were close by. I have no idea what they would have done if I had admitted to being armed.

[Darrin]

I'm glad TN doesn't require concealment, it's just suggested. My local gunshop, most people are carrying in the open! (They then conceal when leaving the shop, most of the time.)

[forquidder]

It seems that the anti's have us on the ropes just where they want us. They have assigned a badge of shame to a legal act and we have accepted it. We should be actually proud of concealed carry as we are fullfilling a civic duty. So long as it's covered, who cares. WE are the Americans and until we are unashamed that fact and live like it we will continue to lose the battle of public opinion. Next time whip the son of a' out and show him. Particularlly in a gun store.

[another okie]

It was rude to say it, but I also agree he may have done you a favor. Fobus holsters are inexpensive and work fine, but they don't conceal well at all, especially a big full size, thick gun like a Beretta. Consider something that rides higher and closer to the body.

[PATH]

I don't get bent out of shape with that question. Maybe I should but I don't. Working in a gun store and being known around town leads folks to conclude I am carrying. They are correct in this matter. I guess it is a matter of what you fell comfortable with.

[Chuck Dye]

You were done a service. Thanks are due.

The essential element in CCW is "concealed."

[Flashpoint]

In the gun shop I frequent it's a safe assumption that everyone is carrying because more than likely they are. Nobody would think twice if you pulled it out and showed some on, but the common procedure is to unload it first.

[Johnny Guest]

- - - It's not as if someone asked you a super personal question in a supermarket or movie theatre with a bunch of others around. We're talking about a GUN STORE for goodness' sake.
I guess I was concerned mostly because here it is illegal for someone to reveal they are armed. Actually, no. Texas law requires that licensees conceal their handguns "from casual observation." There is no requirement that they deny possession of a firearm. I certainly think it less than prudent to engage in such discussion in some situations, but the mere discussion of possession does not equate to display, or "brandishing."

Best,
Johnny

[JShirley]

I think I'd just say, I'm a Mak man.

And then, I'd relax, man.

[Travis McGee]

Besides your pistol "printing" outside your shirt, watch out for your "checking" touches. A lot of folks almost unconsciously touch/check/adjust their piece too often. A sharp gun store employee will pick right up on this.

[David4516]

" I had my Mak in a fobus paddle under a long loose fitting shirt."

I have the same set-up, but I only carry that way when I'm camping/hunting. The rest of the time my Mak is IWB. I like the fobus paddle but it is not as easy to hide.

"I think I'd just say, I'm a Mak man.

And then, I'd relax, man."

LOL...

[Lightsped]

Where in South Texas? I was raised in Brownsville.

Back to topic. I didn't know it was illegal to carry in Texas. I thought they have a CCW license in Texas last time I checked....

[22luvr]

Every gun shop or pawn shop that I frequent has a sign on/near the front door clearly stating that "ALL FIREARMS MUST BE UNLOADED"......and virtually ALL the employees in ALL of these establishments carry a sidearm in full view.

Does that mean only the ones you intend to sell, repair, or shoot at their range? I suppose I should ask those I do business with "Does that mean my carry piece too?"

I've always wondered about that. :confused:

[Johnny Guest]

- - -Upon the laws in YOUR locality.

In Texas, the law is quite clear - - - Licensed firearms carriers can carry MOST places, unless the business clearly gives notice that entry, even by a licensee, carrying a handgun, is prohibited. Notice is usually by a prominently displayed sign meeting legal criteria, in specified wording including the Penal Code section. Violation of this notice constitutes the offense of Criminal Trespass, with specified legal penalties, including suspension or revocation of the CHL.

I can certainly understand that a pawnshop might wish to enforce such a situation, as there is frequently an intent to obtain a loan by leaving the firearm as collateral. It is less understandable that a gun shop would want to do so, unless, of course, the firearm is to be offered for examination . . . .

But, again, the law in Texas has little or no bearing on YOUR situation. I suggest you consult either your attorney or a firearms instructor there.

I have some small standing to speak of Texas pistol packin' law and its application, as I have been a state certified CHL instructor for several years. BUT - - I haven't even visited your fair state in over a decade. :D

Best,
Johnny

[PCRCCW]

Ive got a couple of notes on this thread. I carry ALL OF THE TIME...if I have my pants on ...theres a gun in there. I carry in gun stores...most of which know I make holsters. DUH...yes I have a gun on!

I dont print much....but in a gun store...if someone says "hey what are you carrying?....I show em".........Its a freakin gun store for gods sakes!

If someone has a problem with it.......they are in the wrong store. Yes, I could get the cops called on me for "flashing" my gun....but the reality of this happening in the stores I go to are >>>>>>>>A zillion to one>>>>>>>

I say you could have been nicer and at least take note that you were "made"....which is a big favor to you. Get a better carry holster/position....whatever works for you.

My favorite gun store has a sign that says..."Concealed weapons are welcome, just do not handle your weapon" That pretty much sums up my views of Gun Store CCW............

shoot well

[JohnBT]

The shops here know I have a permit because I use it as a second ID to make purchases.

If one of the clerks said something to me about a lump on my hip I'd probably say "ARE YOU LOOKING AT MY BUTT AGAIN. I'VE TOLD YOU TWICE TO STOP THAT."

John

[only1asterisk]

Telling somebody they are printing or exposed is a little like telling them their fly is open. It may not be the thing you wanted to hear, but you may be better off in the long run.

I'd also like to second what was said about body language. It will give you away more than anything else.

I have been to a few of gunshops that REQUIRED their patrons to show their guns, and many others where it was considered in bad taste. If the owner of private property makes it a policy that weapons be in the open on his property, I doubt anyone will be charged for brandishing etc.

I once came upon a gentleman in a Texas bookstore with a book in his hands, a bag under his arm and most of a Colt Commander sticking out from under his jacket. I stood well back (but blocking the view of some of the store's other shoppers) and simply told the it might be best if he adjusted his jacket. He didn't overreact or draw any attention to himself, he just adjusted his load, covering his pistol and said, "Thank you." I hope anybody here would do the same for me.

We have to hang together or we will all hang!


David

[spacemanspiff]

illegal to admit to anyone that you are armed? are you sure that you havent misinterpreted the definition of "brandishing"?

[mephisto]

I was at a gun show last year with my brother and some dufus asked my brother "whatsha got under there?" pointing to his belt line/crotch area. now my brother does not have a hand gun nor does he want one(shotgun man) his response was classic " your wifes lipstick" all the guys that heard the ? started busting up. the nob was pissed but he didnt do anything. it was his cell phone.

[Byron Quick]

Talk about a tempest in a teacup:rolleyes:

More years ago than I like to think about you could open carry in Georgia without permission. Not one single time did I even notice anyone paying any attention to me doing so. And I was pretty much a glaring minority back then.

When we got CCW, open carry without permission was taken away. Since they obviously can't charge you with carrying a concealed weapon if it's not concealed, our lords and masters coined: carrying a pistol without a license.

But you can carry openly in Georgia with a CCW permit.

The dealer I commonly patronize has known me for over twenty years. Georigia waives NICS if you have a CCW permit. The only surprise he would have would be if he found me without a pistol or two. Same goes for the sheriff who ran the background check for my CCW permit, signed my Form 4, and signed off on my C&R application.

I don't have a problem with my associates knowing I carry. Including coworkers etc. I personally believe it's good for people to know someone who carries daily for years through all the vicissitudes of daily life without becoming a threat to their safety.

IGuy behind a counter at a gun store assumes I carry? What could be more natural? I'm in a gunstore. It's warm outside. I'm dressed in a way that allows concealment...jeez.

Another point. I carried a snubnose revolver in the right hip pocket of my blue jeans in the early eighties. In time, with wear and as the jeans faded...you could plainly see the outline of the revolver in those hip pockets: the barrel, the cylinder and the grips. I carried that revolver in all kinds of places and around all types of people. Care to guess how many comments I got about the plainly visible wear pattern of a revolver in my hip pocket? Not one. Ever. Many people are just plain unobservant. The rest could care less.

I understand some folks' fear that if a goblin knows you are carrying that they will act to neutralize it. On the other hand, look at it from a predator's point of view: easier to go find defenseles prey. I've been in several situations where the only reason I wasn't assaulted was 1) I was aware of them and 2) they knew without a doubt that I was armed.

[BigG]

He was probably just tactfully pointing out it wasn't a secret that you were armed. I see lots of guys wearing dorky vests or buttpacks that are technically conceling but not really discreetly hiding their hardware. Kind of like telling you your zipper is down - I think he was doing you a favor. :o

[Double Maduro]

The thing to remember here is that it was a gun shop. How can they do business without "brandishing"? How can they give quotes for repair or trade ins if you won't show them your gun.

If all of us who have been "made" were arrested, there would be more of us in jail than criminals.

[jsalcedo]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

This was a gun and pawn shop.

The guy said "what gun are you carrying" in front of people I did not know including a customer who was in there for an un gun related purchase.

I've talked to the manager before and she knows nothing about guns
so I am unsure what attitude she would have taken given her ignorance
and crabby disposition.

It is no ones business if I'm armed or not and I'm sure as heck not going to whip out my pistol unless I'm in that shop to get it fixed and then I would bring it in unloaded and in a gun rug.


After thinking about it more and checking myself out in the mirror when I got home. The gun was concealed it was very concealed.

If the guy was trying to do me a favor he could have not blurted out his
gun comment in front of the whole store and waited or pulled me to the side.

I'm thinking the guy was trying to be smarmy and cute and if he was trying to teach me a lesson he went about it the wrong way.

I don't know about anyone else but my gun is always concealed and no one needs to know about it and I won't discuss the fact that I'm armed with anyone not even friends and family.

My wife doesn't even know when I'm carrying and I would be pissed if she asked me in front of strangers.

[Keith]

I'm sorry, but I really can't even follow the reasoning on this thread.

Is the rest of the country so paranoid that a simple little gaffe by a store clerk creates a reaction like this?
Granted, it was (possibly) bad manners for the clerk to "out" you like that... but jeez, what's the big deal! You're in a gun store, among presumably friendly people! I've had similar situations arise, especially when carrying my Kimber which "prints" pretty well, but I certainly didn't act like I was bitten by a snake!

You guys act like the clerk accused you of having body odor!

RELAX! You're carrying a gun. Legally. It is not a violation of the law if your piece "prints" and no cop is going to arrest you for such an offense. And it's not the end of the world if somebody notices that you're carrying or even makes the incredibly horrible "mistake" of asking you about it.

If you're that uncomfortable carrying, maybe you should reconsider doing so!

Lighten up!

Keith

[Mal H]

^

:D

[JeepDriver]

We don't really have the issue of where you can carry here in MD since getting a CCW is next to impossible.

But

The gun shop/range I use has a sign on the front door simple stating the CCW holders and off duty police must tell the employees that they are carrying a concealed handgun.

All they want is to know you are legeally carrying, after you tell them and show your ID it's businness as usuall

[MarineTech]

At the local gunshop that I frequent, most of the regulars carry. Myself included. The owner carries, and he knows that we carry, because he sold most of us our carry guns. He has a tendency to call us "his extra insurance policy".

He does have enough tact, and enough sense, not to call attention to it though.

[Byron Quick]

The gun shop/range I use has a sign on the front door simple stating the CCW holders and off duty police must tell the employees that they are carrying a concealed handgun.

Now, that is something I don't tolerate. I've run into similar signs from time to time. I turn around, go back to my car and drive away...never to be their customer. It's bad enough that I have to get the state's permission to exercise a right.

Sure, a property owner has the right.

I've got the right to vote with my feet, too.

That sign says one thing to me: This store owner does not want the business of people who carry concealed firearms.

[Johnny Guest]

I was just "made" at my local gunshop. jsalcedo, you posted that on 7JUL, which indicates to me this affront took place within the past week or so.

There hasn't been a cold snap in San'tone in recent memory, so I seriously doubt that the "long loose fitting shirt" was quilt-lined flannel. Perhaps the drape of your garment was not so concealing as you would have wished?

You specified the brand and type of holster, a Fobus paddle. I own three, and they are good, solid, utility holsters. I like 'em for some uses. Deep concealment is NOT one of them. I simply use a different holster when it is important to really HIDE my pistol. A well made belt slide or G-Code or IWB does the trick, but NOT a Fobus paddle.

From Texas Government Code section 411.171, . . . . '(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.'

Don't get me wrong, I like dealing with this guy and I've bought at least 10 guns from him but I feel he was way out of line trying to get me to admit to the fact I was armed. Sounds as if you have a choice to make: Put this behind you and continue doing business with "this guy," or decide the offense you took is more important than a decent, existing, commercial relationship.
I'm thinking the guy was trying to be smarmy and cute and if he was trying to teach me a lesson he went about it the wrong way. If you "like dealing with this guy," and have bought several guns from him, why would he feel the need to 'teach you a lesson?'" Is it possible you've gotten cross threaded with him on some topic? Or that you're just a l-e-e-t-l-e sensitive?

I've talked to the manager before and she knows nothing about guns so I am unsure what attitude she would have taken given her ignorance and crabby disposition. Well, sounds as if you have your mind made up about HER! Hummm - - She's in a business which has an active firearms sales component, a lay away program, and does some gun repair. Chances are, she's at least tolerant of gun BUYERS, whatever her personality, "crabby" or not. Perhaps she can sense that you are disdainful of her gun knowledge?
I'm also thinking about changing my carry method because now I'm always going to be worried about excessive printing. That would sure be a logical step. The clerk had SOME reason for asking the question . . . .

"Did I do the right thing?" Well, only you can answer that question. Looking back, I see about ten members who tend to agree about the clerk being out of line. There are some 25 who indicate they see little, if anything, wrong with what you describe. Other comments, I cannot categorize either way. Hey, you asked the question; that's my count of the responses. Let's see - - - Clerk asked a question, and you told him two separate untruths. Okay, there's no law you must answer honestly, even to someone you like dealing with.

"Any suggestions?" If the manager is ignorant and crabby, and the sales clerk is rude, despite your having bought at least ten guns from them, maybe they don't value you as a customer. Perhaps it's time to take your business elsewhere. Or, you might think about what Keith suggested . . . .

Best regards,
Johnny

[gearbox]

'round here they don't permit loaded/concealed firearms in gun shops.

[JeepDriver]

That sign says one thing to me: This store owner does not want the business of people who carry concealed firearms

I don't see it that way. They don't mind it if people carry in the store, their problem is the occational cop that comes in off duty and just pulls out a loaded gun to look at something. Which is what spawned the sign.

As it was told to me:

An off duty police officer was holster shopping when the employee turned around to get the holster down the officer went for his gun. No one knew he was armed or that he was a police officer. Well the employee saw the guy go for his gun out of the cornor of his eye and reacted. That reaction was to push the customer away with one hand and draw his 1911 and click the safety off with the other hand and aim at the officer. Since then there has been a sign.

I've seen when the cops come in and even the few CCW holders that there are in Maryland. The walk in with their ID in hand and say they have a concealed weapon. And that's it.

[raveon59]

turn it into a positive experience-although it was really none of his business, he really did you a fav...you may want to experiment with another mode of cc...

[Double Maduro]

GEARBOX,

Around there they don't allow empty guns in gun shops either, do they?

[jsalcedo]

Johnny Guest,

Thanks for breaking that down for me. I'm not sure if you intended
to be snide but I'll just chalk it up to my being oversensitive.

I've been pondering whether I'll keep doing business at this shop.

They have the best prices have been cool to me up to this point but the snotty manager snapped at me when I wanted to see how many payments I had made and was condescending when I asked her if I could
use my C&R to buy from their shop.

My frugal nature says stay but my gut tells me to not go places where I'm made to feel uncomfortable.

The fobus was the paddle type under a buttton down long shirt 3x size
not much for fashion but helps when I need to reach high on a shelf or reach down and pick something up while carrying.

Oh well, when I go back in August to make my last payment I'll see
how they act and maybe clear the air if need be.

[forquidder]

Since concealed carry is legal in most states and self defense is also a God given right pointed out in in the Second Amendment I think it would behoove all of us to cultivate an attitude which reflects those facts in a humble, confident sort of way. We are doing nothing wrong so acting like a 13 year old who has just been caught smoking pot in the bathroom does nothing to advance a positive image among the public when we are "made". That sort of guilty shameful attitude gives others an image that we are doing something wrong and enforces all the negative stereotypes. A strong confident person doing the right thing with the force of truth behind them and acting from that conviction can do alot to help change most resonable peoples negative stereotypes.

[JShirley]

A strong confident person doing the right thing with the force of truth behind them and acting from that conviction can do alot...

Amen!

[jsalcedo]

Ok so if you are in a store and the manager asks you what you have
on your hip. What do you say?

If you say "its my handgun" then the manager may call the police and accuse you of brandishing

There are many threads on THR about the importance of not advertising the fact you have a CCW.

Its not about being weak or strong, righteous or cowardly.
It's about staying away from folks and situations (including police officers) that do not share your views and may act to unfairly punish those who choose to carry.

Its not unheard of for folks to get busted for exercising their rights
then having to go through the expense of proving their innocence.

I'd rather stay under the radar thanks.

[nemesis]

Anyway asking me to reveal I'm armed is asking me to commit a criminal offense.

I wouldn't ask if you were armed. If I saw that you were carrying, I'd smile and politely ask "what kind of gun do you have there"? Be thankful that you are now aware that your carry methods are suspect.

Would you rather be made by the punks in the mall and be jumped without warning so they could get your gun?

Concealed is the key word and too many people don't polish their concealment methods. A word from a friend, keep it out of sight and it will be out of mind.

[forquidder]

We do all we can to keep a weapon concealed but when someone sees

the print on our hip there are a multitude of calm, truthful responses we

can make. In most cases (unless it's a cop) a pleasant smile is all that is

needed. As we have no need to respond to anyone asking a question

about a legal activity, no response is needed. Depending on the situation

and rather than trying to come up with something off the top of the head,

silence can be Golden.

[arinvolvo]

Its a GUN store...who cares if you are carrying???

As long as you are carrying legally, then why lie about it, or get all embarrassed...

Its a gun, not a holster full of nudie pics of your wife.

[Keith]

>>>>If you say "its my handgun" then the manager may call the police and accuse you of brandishing<<<<<

And after the civil suit was over, you'd be able to afford a lot of new guns!

This is nothing less than paranoia. You are not breaking the law. You are not doing anything for which you need feel ashamed. Until this thread I had no idea that simply carrying a gun engendered so much shame and fear among some people!

Keith

[jsalcedo]

Its not about shame or fear.

Its about privacy, courtesy and social ettiquite.

If I lived in Arizona I would open carry a .454 Casull on one hip and an
a Smith and Wesson 500 mag on the other.

But this is Texas and my CHL instructor (also a cop) pounded the "never admit to being armed" mantra into our heads for 2 days.


This thread has a similar theme.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30239

[Keith]

One should not make assumptions, but it sounds like you haven't been carrying long and you aren't really comfortable with it yet. I understand that and recall the sort of hyper-awareness I had when I first began carrying.
I'm sure that it is perfectly legal for a businessman to ask if you have a gun, just as it is perfectly legal for you to ask a guest in your home if they're packing.
And I'm equally sure that nobody would arrest you for answering the question truthfully.
I think you should have just explained to the clerk that "if" you were carrying a gun, his question would put you in a dilemma since CCW is predicated on concealment. Simply educate him and leave him a bettter gun store employee than you found him.

And RELAX! No cop is going to arrest you for such a gray-area violation and no DA would forward the charges if he did.

Keith

[arinvolvo]

By the by, if he runs a private shop, of which you are a guest, you are on private property, and I suppose it is his right to ask you anything he wants....You dont necessarilly have to answer, but of course, being his property, and his right to ask, I suppose he could tell you to leave, deny you business, etc....

Of course, it is also your right to keep your mouth shut, but then if he wants you to leave, better do so.

And we all know that "social etiquette" gets left at the door when most people enter pawn or gun shops. ;)

[Schmit]

From a person who has been carrying concealed for years and works behind a Gun Shop counter..

First (from CCWer), IF you know what to look for there are tell tale signs that someone is carrying concealed, no matter how good their concealed system is. This can range from printing to just the way you move (i.e. bending at the knees w/streight back to pick something up vice bending at the waist or not reaching above your shoulders). Most people print to some extent or another.

The guy behind the counter may have just been giving you a heads up that your CCW system isn't as concealed as you'd believe.

Second (from someone working behind a gunstore counter that also has an indoor Rifle & Pistol Range). We have a sign on the outside of our store that reads... in large Print - "NO Loaded Weapons". This is for our and our patrons safety. However, this is for the "general" public (if you will). LEOs we make an exception for... along with Members(usually long time members) whom we KNOW can safely handle their firearms. If someone comes in that we don't know and we see they are carrying concealed we will ask about it, if they say they are LEOs we will ask for ID... if they are not LEOs, we ask them for their CCW Licence then we will ask them if it is loaded... if it is we will inform them of the No Loaded Weapons requirement (it IS a private establishment) and ask them for their weapon so that WE can unload it or ask them to please leave the establishement and unload. We do this very politely.

Keep in mind that this is for OUR (and our patron's safety). I can't count the times that people have had loaded weapons in the store (not on the range... that is acceptable though I (and other employees) have had problems there also) and, while they thought they knew what they were doing, were totally inapt. Once we had a guy come in with an AR to shoot on the range. He brought it out of his case and of course there was a mag in the gun. He "clears" the gun so we can check it by racking the bolt. Out pops a cartridge and the bolt doens't lock back but, yep you guessed it, chambers another round from the loaded mag. That is bad enough, however, he had the muzzle pointed directly at another employee who, luckilly, was keeping an eye on what was happening while helping another customer. Upon seeing the cartridge eject from the rifle and hearing another round chamber he pushes the customer out of the way and then dove for cover himself as the employee helping the idiot literally jumps over the counter and forces the muzzle of the gun towards the ground and releaves the idiot of his weapon. Needless to say we didn't allow him use of the range. This is only one (extreme) example.

General rule on safe gun handling is that, unless the individual's knowledge/techniques are of know quality it is highly suspect!

I'd take it for what it probably was - A well versed professional letting you know that your current wear was lacking somewhat for concealability.

[Johnny Guest]

This is posted for general information of members in other localities. It refers ONLY to Texas state law. As quoted previously, the legal definition of "Concealed handgun" refers only to visual observation. The law requires that handguns be concealed in public. It does NOT require that the possession be kept a deep, dark secret.

But this is Texas and my CHL instructor (also a cop) pounded the "never admit to being armed" mantra into our heads for 2 days. A CHL instructor telling students it is A Good Thing not to advertise to all and sundry that he/she is armed, is excellent advice. I tell my students the same: There is no sense in exciting the sheeple, many of whom cannot understand the difference between a peaceful, honest person opting to be legally armed and some vicious criminal bent on perpertrating carnage upon the populace.

BUT - - It is no violation of the law to discuss being armed. To suggest that such an admission is a violation of the law is erroneous. If you say "its my handgun" then the manager may call the police and accuse you of brandishing First: Any person even asking for the CHL application packet is provided (without charge) a copy of the booklet, Texas Concealed handgun Laws and Selected Statutes, state publication LS-16. Besides being required to complete the 10 to 15-hour education course, the applicant certifies that he/she is familiar with the applicable laws - - - Meaning they understand the content of that booklet. I invite any Texas CHL holder to re-read the contents and note: There is no use of the verb "brandish" anywhere therein.

Second: The common meaning of the term, "brandish" is, "To wave or flourish threateningly, as a weapon." WEBSTER'S II NEW RIVERSIDE DICITONARY, 1984 ed., p. 89. Says naught about "speaking of" or "referring to."

I really didn't want folks to think that Texas CHL law redefines, or even refers to, the word.

Its not unheard of for folks to get busted for exercising their rights. That may be true, but I've never heard of it. As a state certified CHL instructor, I receive the mailouts on current decisions concering charges against licensees. I haven't seen any mention of ANY licensee being harassed merely for having a CHL. There HAVE been a (very) few arrests for criminal activity by a licensee, resulting in CHL revocation.

The majority of peace officers I know are generally pro-Second Amendment, or at least, philosophical about the laws with which they don't agree. Why would a cop endanger job and livelihood to knowingly make a false arrest? - - To commit the criminal offense of Official Oppression? As long as we are discussing the law, I'll note that a peace officer convicted of falsely swearing to an affidavit resulting in the confinement of any person is not eligible for probation of his sentence. Think about that - - A cop that lies someone into jail lies himself into jail as well. I think that's a pretty good law.

"It is not unheard of for folks to be struck by lightning on the shooting range." I would really be intellectually dishonest if I made this out to be a normal or frequent or usual occurrence, wouldn't I?

Yours for clarity of expression :D ,
Johnny

[rappa]

Local gunshops down here don't allow loaded or CCW unless you have LEO ID. No worries about being made here.

[crewzer]

Being a manager of a Pawnshop, we always are on the lookout for the concealed UZI or what not. I don't believe he was trying to embarass you or put you on the spot. Anyone that carries into our shop here in Arizona, I always bring it to their attention that they have a firearm. Sometimes your best customers could turn into something really crazy. If it was a real big issue, he would have said more. I am not sure of your CCW laws for your state, but if you are going to carry you must remember their are those of us that are always checking out all the people around us. We don't let anyone reach into bags or purses that we cannot see into. Some women feel a little offended by this, but we always joke about looking for grenade launchers. Look at it in the positive side. You need to choose a better concealment method if you were found out. Good luck and stay safe.

[jsalcedo]

I will follow up since there seemed to be a lot of interest in this thread.

I went back to the pawn/gunshop where the incident occured to pick up my layaway keltec p32.

Computers were down so I hung around the shop and talked to the guy who pointed out my CCW in the first place.

This the first time I had seen him with a full sized glock in open carry.

His shirt was covering it but he untucked when he buzzed in some gang banger types.

The clerk was super cool and gave me some gun cleaning tips and what to look for in reblued guns and talked me into a US GI M1 carbine (underwood).


So I guess the embarassing (to me) act of him pointing out my carry piece was not intended as malicious and he ended up keeping my business so all's well that ends well.

BTW I keep the keltec in my rear pants pocket now it fits perfectly and is very easy to draw (looks like I'm reacing for my wallet)

Best of all no printing. So no more "is that a gun in your pants or are you happy to see me" comments

[Nick96]

You probably walked into the most "gun savy" environment in the world. If you can pull off CC there, most anywhere else should be clear sailing.

That said though, perhaps a bit more thinking about effective CC is in order to assure complete annonimitity every where else.

[Bainx]

Yes, it is rude to make a point of it if you think someone is packing.
While at a favorite shop a year ago, a dude came walking in and the first thing the owner said was "what you got on your ankle?"
I was floored
The guy stated, "what do you mean?...." totally perplexed.

The owner had it wrong
The guy coming in had no idea what he was talking about
But I did
Totally uncalled for

[clubsoda22]

some people care less than others. I was in my barber shop and there was an off duth detective who carries a full size beretta in a new york police style sholder holster. He just casually hung up his vest before taking a seat in the chair.

Before you say anything about the appropriatness of that, imagine a small 1 chair barbershop with a magazine rack filled with gun/car magazines, frequented mainly by people like me. (Cop's, Paramedics, Firefighters, a few mechanics). Doubt there is anyone there who doesn't pack heat.

Seriously, getting made in public, i'd be embarrassed, getting made in a gun shop, who cares, you're among allies. So you got made in the shop, after i go throgh the shop i usually go into the range and practice draw/fire. Kinda gives it away.