I had a negligent discharge today...


PDA






Glock22
September 10, 2007, 12:24 AM
So today I had a negligent discharge this evening. I got complacent and forgot that I had put two rounds of buckshot in my HD shotgun's magazine tube. I pumped it once nothing came out and I assumed that it was empty. So I decided to dry fire it. I brought it up to my shoulder and lined up the ghost ring sights and pulled the trigger.

The worst sound is when you hear a bang instead of a click. My room smelled like gunpowder, my ears were ringing and I saw a golf ball sized hole in my mirror and I could see into my wall.

Seeing that hole and hearing that boom was the worst and most surreal moment of my life. The first thought that went through my head was, "I can't believe I just did that". The 00 buckshot did not penetrate through the house so that is a blessing.

After it happened I wanted to cry, vomit and a lot of other things all at the same time because I did not believe what I had done. I am going to keep the empty shot shell as a visible reminder of what happened today. I really thought that it would never happen to me. But further possible tragedy was averted because I had the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

Afterwards I went for a drive to clear my mind. I don't think I will be able to sleep tonight because I am so keyed up. I know I screwed up and I am forever going to be more careful. So that is my story...

If you enjoyed reading about "I had a negligent discharge today..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Bartholomew Roberts
September 10, 2007, 12:29 AM
Good work on keeping the muzzle in a safe direction. The great thing about the four rules is that unless you violate more than one of them, you are limited in how much damage you can do.

What all and how far did the buckshot penetrate?

grampster
September 10, 2007, 12:33 AM
You're not the only one. You got an incredible learning experience with no serious cost. You'll be a much better, and safer person around firearms from now on.

Hoppy590
September 10, 2007, 12:35 AM
sorry to hear it, but i suppose better to happen under these circumstances than some one get hurt.

quick question. do you live real rural? i mean. if your neighbors called in reporting a gun shot. and then you leaving the house and driving away, could lead to much confusion. and probibly a high stress traffic stop.

Glock22
September 10, 2007, 12:35 AM
Through my mirror and into the wall where once it hit the wall it went sideways kind of. All told it penetrated about 10 inches diagonally.

nitesite
September 10, 2007, 12:40 AM
It has been said that a ND is only a second away from happening to any shooter, regardless of experience or due caution. It just takes a moment of inattention, and any one of us can become complacent if we are not totally focused 100% of the time. And statistically it is difficult to do anything 100-percent of the time.

It happened to be your turn. Thank God it wasn't worse.

BUT, I would surmise that it will NEVER happen to you again, and that is the "positive" ending to your story.

I think it takes balls to confess when NDs happen. The one time it happened to me was 25-years ago and there was no internet group to share the experience with.

trueblue1776
September 10, 2007, 12:41 AM
After it happened I wanted to cry, vomit and a lot of other things all at the same time because I did not believe what I had done.

uh... wow, accidents happen, don't beat yourself up. Guessing it won't happen again.

Not to be insensitive but..

Through my mirror and into the wall

Were you posing in the mirror?


:D (cheer up dude)

hankpac
September 10, 2007, 12:41 AM
Thisis a good time to examine what the load did in damage, and penetration.
I have long been a detractor of OO Buck as a home defense weapon, because of overpenetration issues. How many walls did this single round penetrate? How much spread? can you supply photos?
if the buckshot penetrated one wall, and struck another with semi penetration, it had enough power to kill a child in the next room.
think about that.

The Unknown User
September 10, 2007, 12:43 AM
I'm glad you're safe. It's good nobody got hurt, aside from your ego. But hey, a shot to your ego is better to a shot anywhere else, right?

JKimball
September 10, 2007, 12:46 AM
That's tough. Thanks for sharing. It is always good to be reminded how easily it can happen.

Have you seen this thread?:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=297825

Glock22
September 10, 2007, 12:51 AM
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/180graingoldot/100_1903.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/180graingoldot/100_1904.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/180graingoldot/100_1905.jpg

And now to answer questions I was not posing in the mirror thats just where I happened to be pointing it. They penetrated about 10 inches and after it entered the wall they started to deviate and go sideways. That is why the shot did not penetrate all the way through the house. I also think that it may have hit a stud.

Afterwards I went outside to with my surefire to see if it penetrated the house and it didn't. When I was out there my neighbor who is a hunter safety instructor came outside and asked if I heard the shot. So I told him yes, it was me and I then told him the story. The police didn't show up so I assume that no one called it in.

nitesite
September 10, 2007, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by hankpac:
I have long been a detractor of OO Buck as a home defense weapon, because of overpenetration issues. How many walls did this single round penetrate? How much spread? can you supply photos?
if the buckshot penetrated one wall, and struck another with semi penetration, it had enough power to kill a child in the next room.
think about that.

Sir, would you please read your own post again, and wise the hell up.

Penetration thru one wall and into another is going to occur, whether it's 9mm, .45, .223, .38-Special, .380, .22LR, #1 Buck,.... should I go on??????????

Please let the original poster keep his thread ON TOPIC.

it had enough power to kill a child in the next room. think about that.

Practically any firearm has the potential to do that. We don't need you to remind us of that.

You wanted to add the element of drama into this thread. You succeeded. And that's totally inappropriate.

W.E.G.
September 10, 2007, 01:00 AM
Dry-firing should only be done after you have triple-checked for live ammo.

Always remove the ammunition source, operate the mechanism at least two cycles, and then VISUALLY INSPECT for the presence of ammunition.

As this lesson has taught you, it is not acceptable to "forget" that a gun is loaded - especially if you are manipulating the trigger.

Of all guns, I think a pump shotgun is one of those guns that you would notice if you were chambering a live round. What else was going on that you could have not noticed the sound and feel of a live round feeding through the mechanism versus a slack mechanism?

I negligently fired a 30-30 in an occupied kitchen in 1976. I had "forgotten" that it was loaded.
No excuse. Just stupid. It was loud. Very, very loud. I remember that smell too.

P.S.
You can take down the Christmas lights.

Glock22
September 10, 2007, 01:01 AM
Of all guns, I think a pump shotgun is one of those guns that you would notice if you were chambering a live round. What else was going on that you could have not noticed the sound and feel of a live round feeding through the mechanism versus a slack mechanism?

It was just me being careless and complacent.

Dope
September 10, 2007, 01:03 AM
I can only imagine how loud that was. How long did the ringing last? Hopefully you didn't suffer any permanent hearing damage.

Dope

Glock22
September 10, 2007, 01:12 AM
The ringing didn't really last all that long. I think....

Kentak
September 10, 2007, 01:17 AM
I hate when that happens.

No one should be so complacent or so smug to think that it can't happen to them. It can. Sometimes to the most experienced because they become so used to the routine of gun and ammo handling that they allow a momentary lapse of concentration, and....bang.

Ditto on how extremely important the four rules are. As has been said, if you screw up on one, the other three can limit the consequences.

I wrote about my ND a couple years ago. Was cleaning and reassembling a couple of Glocks. Finished one, inserted a loaded mag and set it aside to later go back upstairs to the strongbox. Worked on the other one for a while. Started dry firing it, concentrating on the trigger pull. Absent mindedly (that's the flaw) picked up the other one to compare the trigger pull, completely forgetting it had a loaded mag. Racked it, pointed it into the crawl space, and....bang. Even though I believed I was handling an unloaded gun, I still pointed it in a safe direction (into the basement crawl space with cement block and solid earth beyond). Now, when handling guns in a cleaning or dry firing situation, I triple check that there is no ammo or loaded mags anywhere in the vicinity. Also, remembering to always check the chamber when picking up each different gun--even when going back and forth. It's not silly, it's smart. We are human and mental lapses occur if we get complacent or smug.

Glad no one was hurt.

K

damien
September 10, 2007, 01:24 AM
I wonder if the ND is going to add to your seven years of bad luck... Maybe you can serve that sentence concurrently.

P.S. You might want to get some snap caps for dry firing. If there is a snap cap in the chamber there is certainly not going to be a live round.

chris in va
September 10, 2007, 01:24 AM
You know what, I applaud you. Here's why.

First you pointed it in a 'safe' direction before dry firing. That act alone saved your bacon and someone elses.

Second we're all human, despite what some people like to believe. We all make mistakes. I certainly have. But you readily admitted your fault and even exposed yourself on this forum to the (potential) wolves with much humility.

In my opinion a true conscientious gun owner reacts exactly as you did. Now if you had laughed about it and had all your buddies come over to inspect, I would've :scrutiny:.

Oh and we can all learn from this too. I certainly have.

feedthehogs
September 10, 2007, 01:34 AM
It has been said that a ND is only a second away from happening to any shooter, regardless of experience or due caution

(Edited -- Please mind your manners/VOLK)

Must be said by the same people that say, hold my beer and watch this.

351 WINCHESTER
September 10, 2007, 01:35 AM
Thank the Lord no one was hurt. Last year my neighbor bought a .22 survival rifle for $5. It was a jamomatic so I told her to bring it to me and I'd see if I could get it to work. I cleaned it, loaded her up and took it outside. I fired 4 or 5 rounds before it jammed. I brought it back in the house and opened and closed the bolt about a dozen times (with the mag. out). I was too lazy to get my reading glasses to inspect the chamber, so I just pointed her at the ceiling and pulled the trigger. There was a live round stuck in the chamber. That's why rule # 1 is rule # 1. There were 4 or 5 kids in the house at the time (they all shoot) and after that happened I reminded them as to why you always point your muzzle in a safe direction. I hope that is a lesson they will never forget.

ShooterMcGavin
September 10, 2007, 02:47 AM
I think it takes balls to confess when NDs happen.
Yeah, I agree. Thanks for sharing the experience. I can almost imagine the sickness you probably felt after it happened.

Thank the Lord no one was hurt.
:scrutiny: Why don't we just thank Glock22. He is reading this thread too.

thorn726
September 10, 2007, 03:21 AM
well you did suffer hearing damage, but you just lose some of your top-end, high pitches, you won't notice, you lose it with age anyway.

at least you did follow most of the four rules and no one was hurt, and i'm sure this public venting will keep it from happening to you, and better yet you are probably helping prevent a more serious accident by us all reading this.

coulda been MUCH worse

gunfighter48
September 10, 2007, 03:54 AM
There are only two types of gun owners; those that have had a ND and those that will have a ND. Don't ever say it can't happen to you!! We that have had NDs always thought it couldn't happen to us. Mine was with the first 1911 that I ever owned. The only ND in over 40 years of shooting. Resulted in nothing more serious than a hole in the carpet. But scared the :cuss: s__t out of me. I learned the manual of arms with the 1911 very quickly and it will not be forgotten!!!!!!!!!

Don't Tread On Me
September 10, 2007, 04:05 AM
You mean it didn't make a 3 foot diameter hole in the wall? Man, reality is way different than Hollywood huh?


Not meant as a threadjack. Thanks for the pictures.



Be safe.

Guitargod1985
September 10, 2007, 04:16 AM
Glock22, glad you are okay and nobody was hurt, dude. As you well know, it could have been a lot worse. Don't be too hard on yourself. A good number of us have had a negligent discharge at one time or another. That's not to say that what you did was okay, but let it be a learning experience to you. :)

I had a negligent discharge on the 22nd of August. I've owned guns for fours years now and this was the first time that it happened. I know that four years isn't a very long time to a lot of people, but I mistakenly acquired the attitude, "I'm safe with guns, a ND will never happen to me."

WRONG!

All that it took was a momentary lack of attention. It was only after this experience that I truly realized that gun safety is not an innate characteristic. Gun safety is something which requires consistent vigilance and awareness, EVERY time you handle a firearm.

silverlance
September 10, 2007, 04:38 AM
thanks glock.
thanks for reinforcing my dedication to gun safety.

kd7nqb
September 10, 2007, 04:42 AM
takes guts to post it thanks for it. Actually this is a really good pic for HD penetration questions.

Dr_2_B
September 10, 2007, 04:54 AM
I applaud you as well. I view your story as a success story. Because you followed the rules of gun safety, there is a wall with a hole in it rather than a dead child at your house. [Or insert your own unthinkable alternative.]

Second, you brought it to the attention of your own circle of influence to help others learn from your situation. Pride didn't seem to hinder you - that's quite an accomplishment. Learning from others' stuff is a lot easier than having to learn from my own. And I KNOW I am not as safe with firearms as I could be but your post should help me revisit the rules because you brought home the feelings pretty well using only words.

Really, thanks for sharing your experience. I have no doubt that it's benefited several people here and their loved-ones.

rdhood
September 10, 2007, 09:38 AM
Always remove the ammunition source, operate the mechanism at least two cycles, and then VISUALLY INSPECT for the presence of ammunition.


+1

The visual inspection is MANDATORY

MassMark
September 10, 2007, 09:57 AM
G22: Glad you're okay and that the only harm was to the mirror and the wall. Both can be fixed/replaced and you'll move on. It takes a lot to admit your mistakes - especially on the WWW, but through that, you may help others not to repeat your mistake. I'm not sure how old/young you are, but when I was in my early 20's, I did the exact same thing with my Winchester Model 12 and a load of 00 Buckshot. I didn't hit my mirror though, I hit my John Belushi "1941" poster, (I loved that poster). Same scenario - thought I had racked free all rounds in the tube and had not. Buckshot penetrated old fashioned plaster wall and into my brother's closet in the next room. No one ever found out, as I headed to the hardware store and patched things up....It did however scare the bejeebus out of me and rattled my brain. A 12ga going off in a 15-foot square room will have a tendancy to do that. Don't beat yourself up too much - just use it as a learning experience and move on....Take care.

PS: How's the recoil on that new Benelli anyway?? :D

Fred Fuller
September 10, 2007, 10:22 AM
Glad the damage was no worse than it turned out to be. It really is a seriously sick feeling, BTDT (I was helping a friend zero a new rifle at the range, I closed the bolt on a live round and it fired instantly without my touching the trigger, muzzle was in a safe direction and no damage done save seriously jangled nerves.)

With a pump shotgun there's lots of room to visually and physically check both magazine tube and chamber any time you manipulate the gun. It was drilled into us as a good idea, and in practice it has turned out to be a really good habit IMHO. A visual check AND a tactile check of both magazine tube and chamber are a good idea in verifying the status of the gun under admin circumstances.

And the tactile check is a good habit to learn as part of running the gun under stressful circumstances as well IMHO. It's often hard to keep up with the number of rounds remaining in the gun, and you can check with the gun still at the shoulder. A press check will tell you whether there is at least one round left in the magazine and if not, a press check of the chamber will confirm the presence of a round there. It's easy enough to crack open the action and cop a feel with the support hand pinkie (if right handed) or thumb (if left handed).

But under admin circumstances, IMHO one should always combine visual and tactile checks of both magazine and chamber before treating a shotgun as if it is clear. A major downside of tubular magazines is that rounds sometimes hang up in the tube only to get jarred loose later. If you stick a finger into the magazine tube and feel an empty hole (no follower, no shell) then you know there's big trouble. If you feel a primer, you know there's at least one round in there, and if you feel the follower, you know the magazine is empty. Look at AND feel of both magazine tube and chamber before deciding a shotgun is clear- it's a good habit to get into.

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc

SSN Vet
September 10, 2007, 11:13 AM
Knowlede....
knowing how to completely check a weapon to verify it is unloaded is EXTREMELY importand.

Diligence....
taking the extra effort to make sure you know the status of a weapon (loaded / unloaded) EVERY time you handle.

Checking the chamber and not the magazine led to the death of a teenage boy in my small town. The impact on his family, friends and community was enormous.

Remember that sick feeling in your gut and you'll be sure not to make such a mistake again.

Kentak
September 10, 2007, 12:19 PM
Telling ones-self that one is too smart, careful, experienced, focused, well-trained, etc., to have a ND is the first step towards having one. IMO.

K

CNYCacher
September 10, 2007, 12:31 PM
Sorry to hear about that. Glad you are okay and glad you had the cojones to post this for the benefit of all.

Without adding drama to the thread, I believe this IS a good opportunity to learn something about penetration. Box-o-truth has only done drywall(gypsum) testing, Glock22 managed to shoot through some lath-and-plaster.
Glock22: I am going to assume that this was an exterior wall and that it didn't penetrate the house skin?
I am interested because my house is similar.

cnorman18
September 10, 2007, 01:07 PM
I, too, have heard that there are two kinds of shooters: those who have never had an ND, and those who are REALLY careful.

I once missed a cat by about six inches. No harm done but a .22 caliber hole in the floor, but the cat watched me carefully from then on...

We're in good company. Colonel Jeff Cooper himself once had an ND. If it could happen to HIM...

Technosavant
September 10, 2007, 01:08 PM
There are only two types of gun owners; those that have had a ND and those that will have a ND. Don't ever say it can't happen to you!!

No, the two types are those who have had a ND and those who haven't. Just because most people have gone from the second group to the first doesn't mean that it is inevitable. If the second group acknowledges that it CAN happen to them and they are ALWAYS careful, I do believe it is possible to go through a lifetime of shooting without having a ND. However, that requires a person to NEVER screw it up.

I have yet to have my own ND. While I might get careless and have one, I do get tired of people telling me (and others in the same boat) that it is inevitable. It is not. I appreciate stories like this one- it reminds me to always, always, ALWAYS be extremely careful.

My goal is to be on my deathbed without ever having a ND. I can do it. So can any other new shooter. The only question is whether we will be disciplined enough to do it.

And as for Glock 22, now you have seven years of bad luck...

CountGlockula
September 10, 2007, 01:39 PM
Thanks for the reminder to always double/triple/quadruple/quint..check our firearms Glock22.

Stay safe buddy.

Officers'Wife
September 10, 2007, 01:47 PM
Thank God nobody was hurt.

AndyC
September 10, 2007, 01:52 PM
There are only two types of gun owners; those that have had a ND and those that will have a ND.
It's that very sobering thought that keeps me anal about firearms-safety over 35 years after first starting shooting - never had one and hope I never do.

PAshooter
September 10, 2007, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the pictures.

Is yours an older home? I ask, because it appears from your photos that the wall is plaster over wood lathe. Penetration and behavior with modern sheetrock construction would likely be quite a bit different from what happened in your case.

Thanks for sharing your incident. While I agree it isn't inevitable over a lifetime of shooting, it certainly can happen to anyone. Learning about incidents like yours serves to make all of us more careful.

Rokyudai
September 10, 2007, 02:12 PM
Glock,

Echoing everyone else's comments. Glad you and those around you are ok. It's a startling wake up call from an event in which no one is immune to having happen to them. As it goes without saying, learn from it and move on with the knowledge you have gained. Thanks for posting. It does take guts to do so and shows character.

hankpac
September 10, 2007, 02:15 PM
Nitesite, I find your post mean-spirited.
My intention was to take this subject in the natural direction. We can belabor that this guy screwed up, and wring our hands over how it could have been worse, and never learn a thing from the incident. Marking time in one place doesn't take anyone down the road to learning.
So, by actual test performed by "Pistolero" magazine in the 80's, documented with photos, using actual built walls, with code construction (studs, sockets, window frames, with and without insulation), almost every charge, caliber and type of round over penetrated, except one.
I have seen on this forum, and many others that this particular round is insuficient in power to stop or kill a home invader, but that is an entirely diferent subject. The issue here is penetration into another room of your home, and the possible injury or death of a family member.
Our original poster states rather unclearly wether the pellets actually struck the opposite wall with any force, and there are no photos of the opposite wall.
His assesment of what damage was done on his side of the first wall, and what obstructions may have beeen encountered is good, although, I would want to peel some wallboard away, to more closely assess inside the wall, and shine a laser across to the opposite wall for the purpose of actually drawing home where the pellets struck.
In other words, now that the deed is done, and now that the damages is there, take the opportunity to learn something that could actually do all of us some good.
So lets see some photos now of what the opposite wall looks like, when seen THROUGH the hole in the first wall.
PA shooter's commment is well taken, shooting through lath and plaster is like shooting through cement! After I tore out some walls in my 1932 built home, I thought I was taking down a fortress!
BTW, our original poster didin't seem to take my post negatively.

Kimber1911_06238
September 10, 2007, 02:25 PM
Glad nobody was hurt. As long as you learned to be more careful, the experience wasn't totally negative. (i'm an optimist) It'll cost you a few bucks to fix, but it has undoubtedly taught you an invaluable lesson.

El Tejon
September 10, 2007, 02:26 PM
Glock, glad you are O.K.

This is why we older guys incessantly harp on The Four Rules. We're aren't just flapping our gums to hear ourselves type. The Four Rules are life.

We never "cycle through" rounds to clear the weapon. We retract the bolt, withdraw the round in the chamber. We then download the weapon's magazine.

Of the 3 skills involved in the triad or fighting--marksmanship, mind set, gun handling--gun handling skills are paramount as they form the base. If you live around dangerous weapons, it is mandatory that you understand how to handle them or they will damage friendlies.

Please, please, please sign up for a shotgun class. A man loves a good gun, but the software to run it will save your life and the lives of those that you love.:)

Hunter0924
September 10, 2007, 04:34 PM
Mistakes can happen, agreed they should not but they do. I hate it for you but I am glad no one was hurt. I was working on my Winchester 1897 in my shop attempting to solve a feeding issue (with live shells I might add). After a little while I had gotten the issue cleared up and shucked what I was sure was the last shell. I cleared the action (I thought it was clear), pointed it at the floor as I closed the action. I know there is no disconnector on an 1897 but I managed to add a nice hole in the wooden floor of my shop. Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
I feel your pain. I was really shaken and upset at myself for a week. I kept the hull myself and it sits by my loading bench. That has been a constant reminder to me to be extra careful.
A few extra seconds can make all the difference in the world. Thanks for sharing.

vtoddball
September 10, 2007, 07:12 PM
When I was out there my neighbor who is a hunter safety instructor came outside and asked if I heard the shot. So I told him yes, it was me and I then told him the story.

You're a better man than I. If it was me the conversation would have gone like this...

Neighbor: Did you hear that shot?
Me: WHAT????
Neighbor: DID YOU HEAR THAT SHOT!?
Me: NO I DON'T FEAR SNOT!

*long pause*

Me: What did you say?
Neighbor: Did your gun go off?
Me: ..........no. Must have been the neighbors on the other side of the house.
Neighbor: They're amish! They don't believe in owning guns.
Me: That's the perfect cover isn't it. It was them or those kids across the street.
Neighbor: *incredulous* The 1 year old twins? Are you sure you didn't have anything to
do with this?
Me: Definitely. Now if I was you I'd get back inside before Isaiah reloads.

Bones11b
September 10, 2007, 07:41 PM
Takes a real man/woman to learn from his/her mistakes. Seems like you have, and by being brave enough to post the reality of your mistake here on a public forum perhaps others can learn from your mistake as well. Stay safe everyone.

Tharg
September 10, 2007, 08:11 PM
As many have said, brave to post it here and good on ya. Glad no one was hurt. My own happened at a low point in my life, the .40 hydrashok went through the mirror, the sheet rock, the next bit of sheetrock (opposite side of the wall) and then left bits of itself impregnated on the laundry room cabinets. Thankfully there was no one in that direction. As i said - low point in my life... I tend to check at least X number of times that its unloaded before i do nearly anything w/ a gun. But as others suggested... i had my NEGLIGENT discharge. (have to agree there is no such thing as an accidental one...)

Take care and once again, glad that no one was hurt and that you had the balls to bring it here... the internet can be cruel for the hell of it.

J/Tharg!

Pigspitter
September 10, 2007, 08:15 PM
well, your lucky cause after your wife see's that hole- you'll learn the lesson why you only make that mistake once.

rocinante
September 10, 2007, 09:23 PM
I am 49 but only started getting into guns this last year. The first time I racked a pistol I thought was empty and a cartridge popped out it really got my attention and scared me.

Will Learn
September 10, 2007, 09:39 PM
I just checked the chambers of the two guns in the room. I knew they were empty but this thread made me want to check. No more tough guy poses with the shotgun in the mirror for a while eh? :) Glad to know no one was hurt.

Misfire99
September 10, 2007, 09:48 PM
I am very glad you had this happen to you and not me. Hopefully it won't because of your posting this as a reminder for the rest of us. Thanks.

I also find it very interesting that the shot didn't go through the wall. It makes me wonder about these claims of over penetration. I have a good friend that is an A class shooter and one day he was practicing his draw. He had a mag full of bullets loaded with a spent primer and no powder but with a bullet in the case to give the magazine the right weight for practice. Well one day he grabbed the wrong magizine, thinking it was the dummy rounds, and started his practice. And we all know what happened. He put a hole in his wall. This was with a 38 super firing major jacketed loads. What really surprised me was it didn't penetrate the wall. There was a nice 38 size hole on one side of the wall and nothing on the other. Not even a dimple in the sheet rock. He now has bought practice mags that all all plastic that weight the same as fully loaded mags. They are bright blue and you just can't mistake them for regular mags.

I wonder how many other have shot the wall and had it not penetrate?

RockyMtnTactical
September 11, 2007, 12:41 AM
All's well that ends well. You'll surely be more careful in the future.

Glock22
September 11, 2007, 12:46 AM
Since questions have been asked about the age of my home and the construction, I will answer them.

I think the house was built in 1907 and like people were saying before the walls were plaster and lath.

The shot penetrated my mirror went through the mirror and into the wall. For about an inch it went straight into the wall but right after that the shot pattern moves to the left diagonally. It goes about ten inches and hits something very solid.

The buckshot did not penetrate the outside wall, if it would have it would have gone through the house to the outside and then I would have had a new porthole in my bedroom.

trueblue1776
September 11, 2007, 12:47 AM
This should be in strategies and tactics but...

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/how-to-fix-holes-in-drywall-2.jpg

tnieto2004
September 11, 2007, 12:54 AM
A lesson learned .. Don't beat yourself up.. I believe all things happen for a reason whether we can explain them or not.. And I feel that you have definitely learned from it ..

helpless
September 11, 2007, 03:57 AM
It happens, here is one that happened to my father I posted a while back.

There are two types of people, those who have had an ND and those that will.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282404

ziadel
September 11, 2007, 06:17 AM
Live and learn, now get back on the horse ;)

Technosavant
September 11, 2007, 12:14 PM
There are two types of people, those who have had an ND and those that will.


Again, I will say that this is an ignorant point of view. Yes, ignorant (I mean this in the classic, not-thought-out sense). It is much the same as saying "There are two kinds of drivers: those who have caused an accident by their own negligence and those who will." I am certain that people will take issue with that one. Remaining vigilant and cautious as you drive will prevent your causing of an accident, and remaining vigilant and cautious with firearms will prevent NDs.

Just because the majority may have had a ND does not mean that it is inevitable. There is no need to excuse them saying "everyone has had one" since that is patently false. Be careful EVERY time, and you won't hear BANG instead of click.

Learn from your mistakes and from the mistakes of others. There's also no need to be judgmental and derisive of those who erred, since it CAN happen to those who have not. There but for caution go we.

1BLINDREF
September 11, 2007, 12:47 PM
A lesson learned .. Don't beat yourself up.. I believe all things happen for a reason whether we can explain them or not.. And I feel that you have definitely learned from it ..
+1
Thanks for posting your "mistake" for all of us to read and see.
It takes alot of gutts to admit when we do something like that. I think sharing it on this Forum for all to read might benefit some who aren't as carefull as they should be when handling firearms.
Very sobering story and pictures - thanks for sharing :)

rdhood
September 11, 2007, 12:50 PM
Just because the majority may have had a ND does not mean that it is inevitable. This sounds like a poll!

Something like:

* I have never had an ND (owned gun less than 5 years)
* I have never had an ND (owned gun 5-10 years)
* I have never had an ND (owned gun 10-20 years)
* I have never had an ND (owned gun 20-30 years)
* I have never had an ND (owned gun 30+ years)
* I have had an ND (in first 10 years of gun ownership)
* I have had an ND (in 10th-20th years of gun ownership)
* I have had an ND (in 20th-30th years of gun ownership)
* I have had an ND (after 30+ years of gun ownership)


if we could get 300-500 responses like the Background check thread polls, it might show something meaningful about accidental discharges in the law abiding pro-gun community.

Mainsail
September 11, 2007, 01:05 PM
Again, I will say that this is an ignorant point of view. Yes, ignorant (I mean this in the classic, not-thought-out sense). It is much the same as saying "There are two kinds of drivers: those who have caused an accident by their own negligence and those who will." I am certain that people will take issue with that one. Remaining vigilant and cautious as you drive will prevent your causing of an accident, and remaining vigilant and cautious with firearms will prevent NDs.

Just because the majority may have had a ND does not mean that it is inevitable. There is no need to excuse them saying "everyone has had one" since that is patently false. Be careful EVERY time, and you won't hear BANG instead of click.

Learn from your mistakes and from the mistakes of others. There's also no need to be judgmental and derisive of those who erred, since it CAN happen to those who have not. There but for caution go we.
I agree 100% If I thought it were only a matter of time before I blew a hole in the wall, I would sell off all my guns today. Where I live I simply cannot have a negligent discharge. That means none, zero, zilch.

A lesson learned …Don't beat yourself up…

Yes, beat yourself up! It was a foolish and potentially deadly mistake; don’t sweep it under the rug. There are two ways to learn things in life, through mistakes made by you or mistakes made by someone else. You just get to be the person we learn from this time. If you didn’t know it was loaded, then you didn’t know what it was loaded with. A slug may well have gone through the wall.

The error was in your methodology. Yes, you knew to point the gun in a sort-of safe direction, and you may have even been positive it wasn’t loaded. Where you failed was in your methodology of determining the condition of the gun. In airplane accidents we look at the chain of events that led to the crash. We often find that several ‘links’ in that chain were apparent but ignored. The one link that was screaming at you was that you didn’t visually inspect the firearm prior to dry-firing it.

Thanks for posting, but don’t listen to the well-meaning folks who are attempting to minimize this error.

07Lway
September 12, 2007, 03:47 PM
"The worst sound is when you hear a bang instead of a click"

Too right it is. That is a sound that changes the way you handle safety for the rest of your life.

When I had a ND, I would have been willing to bet my life it was unloaded (obviously or why would I pull the trigger). I locked all of my rifles away, and didn't touch them for a three months afterwards. I put my family in danger, and could have killed someone in the house. For that I can never forgive myself. I thank the Lord that the four rules saved me from pointing the gun anywhere but the floor, otherwise who knows...

I am sure no one can be as hard on you as you are on yourself (and rightly so). I never have or will let myself forget. I actually still carry the .22lr shell in my wallet to remind me that you can never get complacent when it comes to safety.

XDKingslayer
September 12, 2007, 04:46 PM
I applaud you as well. I view your story as a success story. Because you followed the rules of gun safety, there is a wall with a hole in it rather than a dead child at your house. [Or insert your own unthinkable alternative.]

First and foremost I don't know how you people can actually say "I applaud you" for doing something careless and stupid. A High Road is one thing, riding that road to this level is silly.

He didn't follow the rules. If he had followed the rules this wouldn't have happened. Period. End of discussion. Welcome to reality. He just happened to be pointing it in a safe direction when he didn't follow the rules and you people are applauding him for that?

Wow. Just wow.

Obiwan
September 12, 2007, 06:20 PM
I am going to deviate a little from the popular opinion

You should be very hard on yourself

You should beat yourself up

You should feel so incredibly lousy about yourself that you never....ever...even come close to doing anything like that again

Lessons are supposed to be painful ....that is how we learn

Acting like it is ok and/or inevitable is how we achieve complacencey

And that is not where we want to be

Good for you for admitting it.....that is a good start

Praise Jesus you followed the rules

No...I have not had a ND........

But I remember every other stupid thing I have ever done.....and it keeps me careful

I visually and physically check my chamber before dry firing any weapon

Every Time

You obviously get it....hopefully others will learn from you

JerryTheGeek
September 15, 2007, 02:36 AM
Yes, Negligent Discharges happen. They should be the source of pain, embarrassment, and a determination to never ever let it happen again.

I've been shooting since I was 8 years old, and it has happened to me twice.

The first time (http://jerrythegeek.blogspot.com/search?q=bowles) was when I was 15 or 16, out rabbit hunting, unloading my 1903-a3 and the gun went off when I flicked off the safety. Moments before, it had been pointed at my father until a 3rd hunting companion pointed out my unsafe behavior.

The second time (http://jerrythegeek.blogspot.com/2006/11/geek-kaboom.html) was 45 years later, 11 months ago, during an IPSC match. I've been shooting IPSC for about 24 years, so I should really know better.

At the end of a stage I went through the "If you are finished, Unload and Show Clear" but I didn't notice the last round leaving the pistol. I racked the slide 3 or 4 times, nothing happened. I peered into the chamber, couldn't see anything. Racked the slide again, nothing came out. After a minute, with the Range Officer peering over my shoulder, I pointed the pistol downrange and pulled the trigger. KA-BOOM!

Later we discovered that I had a broken extractor. It broke on the last round of the stage. And the base of the case had been marked with a black Magic Marker, to denote new brass.

Lessons learned:

Always make sure the firearm is pointed in a safe direction
If you're in doubt, use a squib rod to check the chamber
NEVER darken the base of your ammunition.

.cheese.
September 15, 2007, 12:02 PM
There are only two types of gun owners; those that have had a ND and those that will have a ND.

I read this somewhere originally about a year and a half ago.

Thought to myself, nahh... it would never happen to me. Literally a week later it did. (I too intentionally was pointing the gun at a wall just-in-case... I suppose almost subconsciously thinking of what-if)

Big lesson learned: none of us are above accidents... all of us can be forgetful.... that's why when handling a firearm it should always be treated as loaded.

My procedure with my Glocks for taking one apart is:
With the gun pointed in a safe direction
1) Take out the magazine
2) Rack the slide removing the loaded cartridge
3) Rack the slide and hold it to inspect the chamber - empty? Good.
4) Rack the slide and hold it to inspect the chamber - still empty? Good.
you can do it a third time if you want... I sometimes do
then I take it apart.

For the AR..... it's nearly the same thing

Don't beat yourself up over it Glock22... you learned a lesson....

when it happened to us in the past.... so did we...

I say - even if you were really really safe before, resolve to be even safer now. That's all. Don't worry.... be safe.... go forth and sin no more. :)

.cheese.
September 15, 2007, 12:13 PM
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/how-to-fix-holes-in-drywall-2.jpg

trueblue1776 - That's for drywall.

He said his house was built in 1907. Drywall wouldn't come into existence for about another 40 years.

jrou111
September 15, 2007, 12:39 PM
So I decided to dry fire it.

I know you've probably learned your lesson, so this isn't directly directed toward you...

Why do people feel compelled to dry fire their guns inside their home? The only time my firearms dry fired is when I lose count at the range :)

If I pull the trigger, it's cause I wanted the gun to go bang. It's not a toy, or something to take lightly for that matter.

zinj
September 15, 2007, 12:45 PM
Why do people feel compelled to dry fire their guns inside their home?

Because it is the most effective form of practice you can do without actually shooting.

jrou111
September 15, 2007, 12:51 PM
Because it is the most effective form of practice you can do without actually shooting.

http://www.protectiondepot.com/images/glock17.jpg

zinj
September 15, 2007, 01:44 PM
And for those of us who don't shoot Glocks?

AIM_SMALL_MISS_SMALL
September 15, 2007, 03:04 PM
I strongly suggest you do some serious soul searching.

You can start by analyzing the frame of mind evidenced by your comments here.

"I had a negligent discharge today..."

You are not a passive object to which experiences happen.

You did not "have a negligent discharge."

You need to say, "I negligently discharged a lethal weapon today."

"I got complacent and forgot that I had put two rounds of buckshot in my HD shotgun's magazine tube."

Your problem was not complacency, it was disobedience.

Disobedience is when you DO something you are not supposed to do.

Complacency is when you do not do something.

You disobeyed rules which must never be disobeyed by anyone who wants the right to call himself responsible and who wants to retain his right to keep and bear arms and who wants to remain free (not incarcerated).

You need to get over whatever immaturity is in you that makes you see disobeying rules as something that is o.k.

As a keeper and bearer of deadly firearms, you're supposed to be a real grownup now.

Act like one.

Better yet, be one.

"I pumped it once nothing came out . . ."

I have not noticed that you have analyzed this event to ascertain how you could pump a shotgun in such a way that nothing would come out (when it was in fact loaded).

What did you do wrong in pumping that shotgun?

That should have been the first question you asked yourself upon hearing the discharge.

Your self-analysis skills are weak.

You need to work on that.

Everyone around you needs you to work on that, so you don't shoot them.

" . . . So I decided to dry fire it."

Weak critical thinking skills are in evidence here.

There is a reason why the order goes "Ready! Aim! Fire!" and not "Ready! Fire! Aim!"

Your mind's sequential reasoning operations must be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT EVERY TIME YOU HANDLE A FIREARM BECAUSE YOU CANNOT CALL BACK A DISCHARGED ROUND.

From now on you need to clear your mind of every thought other than absolute perfect application of the four rules of gun safety.

"Seeing that hole and hearing that boom was the worst and most surreal moment of my life."

You're lucky that seeing a dead body which you unintentionally filled full of your 00 buckshot did not become the worst moment of your life.

"After it happened I wanted to cry, vomit and a lot of other things all at the same time because I did not believe what I had done. I am going to keep the empty shot shell as a visible reminder of what happened today."

You need to get a grip on yourself.

Your mind, your rational thought processes should have gone into high gear the second this happened.

Instead, your gut reaction was childish and emotion-drive.

You need to enter into a training program that will help you grow up.

Think about entering the military if you are not too old.

"I really thought that it would never happen to me."

Again, nothing "happened to you."

You caused it to happen.

The manner in which you articulate your thoughts here betrays how you see yourself in the world.

Unfortunately for you and those around you, you evidently see yourself as someone to whom "things happen" when he "happens" to be holding a gun.

Nothing "happened" to you or your gun--YOU "HAPPENED."

You really need to begin a form of mental training that requires pure clarity and the most extreme form of mental discipline if you are going to handle firearms safely.

You owe that to the people around you.

"But further possible tragedy was averted because I had the muzzle pointed in a safe direction."

Given what is already clear about your frame of mind, this pure luck--I would not congratulate myself about this if I were you.

"Afterwards I went for a drive to clear my mind."

Inappropriate response.

Your main concern was to soothe your feelings rather than to get down to business and do the hard, painful self-analysis required to figure how you could have pumped a shotgun in a way that caused you to wrongly believe that the shotgun was clear and safe to "dry fire."

Your underlying unconscious attitude is escapist.

I suggest you read less fluff (Oscar Wilde) and more Jeff Cooper.

"I don't think I will be able to sleep tonight because I am so keyed up."

Good.

I hope you were up all night thinking about it, and I hope you are scarred for life in such a way that you never do it again.

"I know I screwed up and I am forever going to be more careful."

That is only part of what needs to happen.

You need to know HOW you screwed up so that you do not screw up like this AGAIN.

Those around you have a right to expect you to safely exercise your right to bear arms.

If you can't do that, those around you have a right to take away your right to keep and bear arms.

"So that is my story..."

I strongly urge you to analyze where you went wrong so that you can determine how you could have pumped a shotgun in a way that caused you to wrongly believe that the shotgun was clear and safe to "dry fire."

Please follow all four of the firearms safety rules.

If you have some appreciation for Oscar Wilde, then you have some appreciation for paradox.

(A paradox is an apparent contradiction.)

Here is a paradox:

Freedom consists in, and depends on, obeying rules.

Can't figure out how this can be true?

Freedom consists in, and depends on, our obeying all rules that are beneficial for all of us to obey all of the time.

Stay free.

Obey the rules.

Ohio Rifleman
September 15, 2007, 05:22 PM
I agree 100% If I thought it were only a matter of time before I blew a hole in the wall, I would sell off all my guns today. Where I live I simply cannot have a negligent discharge. That means none, zero, zilch.

That's something that rankles with me when people say that an ND is somehow inevitable.

I can't afford to have an ND. I live in the 'burbs, where the houses are maybe 30 feet apart. Especially with the rifles I own, an SKS and a Mosin. A bullet from either of those would punch through these flimsy sheetrock and plaster walls like nothing.

Claude Clay
September 16, 2007, 02:49 PM
get the good brass & red snap caps w/ the primer spring-loaded for ALL your calibers. use them ALL the time. forces you to remove your live ammo before you can insert them. ND AD how about afore-knowledged mechanicel discharge...knowing that CZ 52's can AND do because of wear & design, sometimes (2 times in 1500 rounds) actually fire when you use the decocker. no one at the range was even aware of it. ps. i never load this gun untill i am about to fire it!

GunnyBob
September 16, 2007, 10:04 PM
You were man enough to fess up, and that says a lot. Nice tight pattern, too. Cylinder bore or Modified?

Travis McGee
September 16, 2007, 10:20 PM
BTDT. A lesson you will NEVER forget. Thank God nobody was hurt.

Thanks for your courage in sharing this. We are all always one second from a ND when we handle firearms. Lesson: NEVER get casual with guns!

(For the record, if I listed my biggest mistakes here, you'd think I was the biggest jerk alive.)

308win
September 16, 2007, 10:29 PM
One time (one time only) I laid my 700 on the ground not realizing the safety was off. A weed stubble fired the gun; the round dug a furrow about 10-12 inches long right next to my foot. This round was a 110gr VMax and I am surprised it didn't blow up as soon as it contacted the ground. All I can figure is that it must have been skimming the ground and the point didn't hit anything substantial enough to cause the bullet to disintegrate. I have always been diligent about checking the position of the safety on any firearm I am using and am even more so now. Got lucky

Doggy Daddy
September 16, 2007, 11:21 PM
W.E.G.

P.S.
You can take down the Christmas lights.

Nope, not now. I was in W*Mart a couple days ago, and the Christmas stuff is already starting to go onto the shelves. :banghead:

mmike87
September 16, 2007, 11:44 PM
Glad no one's hurt.

It's great when people fess' up and post these when they happen. It reminds all of us about the basic rules of gun handling and that's a Good Thing. You can never be reminded enough.

Red Dragon
September 16, 2007, 11:51 PM
Glock22, I am glad you are ok, a lesson has been learned, the damage can be fixed. It could have been worse, but fortunately it wasn't.

The rest is regarding the post by Aim Small Miss Small:

The excessive content of your post is entirely unnecessary. I understand what you are trying to tell Glock22 but there are ways of doing it without sounding so pompous and arrogant. The insults are totally uncalled-for. Glock22 understands that he messed up. He doesn't need to read some self-righteous post attempting to psychoanalyze his writing style and mindset and tell him how he did everything wrong. He made a mistake, a big one. He learned something from it. That's it.

Seancass
September 19, 2007, 06:24 PM
this makes me feel better about my habit of pumping the gun 3 times to see if it's empty. once shows if it was loaded, twice shows if you just loaded and maybe reloaded it, and three times means geez how much ammo did you put in this thing.

If you enjoyed reading about "I had a negligent discharge today..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!