Radway Green 5.56 issues?


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ny32182
September 10, 2007, 11:07 AM
The last time Radway Green was available from AIM, I bought 1440 rounds. I've mostly been sitting on it since then. I fired about 80 rounds in my SBR with no problems.

This past weekend though, I fired 100 rounds in my 20" M16 clone. I experienced not only what I consider to be sub-par grouping, but probably 10 of the 100 rounds popped the primer right out of the brass. Three of those times, the primer wasn't ejected from the action, and wound up on the bolt face or behind the lugs in the barrel extension, causing the bolt to not close all the way on the next round. I had to lock the bolt back and shake out the loose primer before continuing.

I also fired 96 rounds of DRS 62gr reloads. No popped primers, no loose primers, better groups... no issues whatsoever.

Ammo issue (I hope??) In any case, I had previously considered this to be the best 5.56 ammo I had on hand. Now I'm scared to even use it in a 3-gun match.

What do you think? Headstamp is "RORG 92".

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Dr. Dickie
September 10, 2007, 12:32 PM
What do you think?

I sure hope you got the only bad batch out there, as I have about 1K of this sitting on a shelve at home. I got it from AIM about a year ago as well:confused:

HorseSoldier
September 10, 2007, 12:34 PM
Any indication that primers were punctured or deep firing pin strikes on the problem rounds or the other brass?

IndianaBoy
September 10, 2007, 01:16 PM
I've run about 600 rounds of Radway Green through my 16 inch AR. No problems. Shoots way more accurately than Wolf, not as accurately as my handloads.

Functioned flawlessly for me.

waterhouse
September 10, 2007, 01:21 PM
I got mine from AIM sometime either last year or the year before. I think I've gone through about 3,000 rounds with no ammo related issues.

DMK
September 10, 2007, 01:41 PM
How was it stored?

Could it have been subjected to wide temperature variations and humidity?

flynlr
September 10, 2007, 02:41 PM
my 92RG was from wideners a year ago . and after 1000+ rounds I have had zero issues. out of both my AR's 16"DPMS and 16"RRA
heck I reloaded about 500 of them and they were flawless also.

ny32182
September 10, 2007, 05:49 PM
Any indication that primers were punctured or deep firing pin strikes on the problem rounds or the other brass?

No... the three loose ones that I recovered looked like normal strikes, as did all the strikes on the normally ejected brass.

How was it stored?

Could it have been subjected to wide temperature variations and humidity?

Of course it is surplus and I have no idea how it was stored before I got it. Since I have owned it (yeah, I guess it has been nearly a year now) it has been stored in the factory cans, not seeing any temps outside the range of 70-85 F. Same as all my other ammo.

The gun is fairly new... round count less than 500. Previous ammo fired was GA canned heat and Federal XM193, with no issues. Likewise the DRS reloads I fired on the same day as the RG had no issues. So, that is four kinds of ammo, all 100% perfect except for the RG with about 10% "primer pop out" rate. That almost has to be an ammo problem.

However, as I mentioned I did fire 80 rounds of the RG in my 10.5" AR with no problems. I wonder if the different timing of the extraction has anything to do with it.

Could this possibly be a headspace issue with my new rifle? I don't want to blow myself up.

rkh
September 10, 2007, 06:02 PM
It sounds like either:

a) The rifle that was giving you problems has a tight .223 chamber.

or

b) The rifle has a 5.56 chamber, but you did not mop the bore adequately after the rifle was last cleaned. Having an oily chamber can cause all sorts of pressure problems because the brass is prevented from obturating properly. Maybe the oil had been blown away by the time you got to your reloads, or maybe your reloads were loaded to the milder .223 spec.

What you're describing, however, is the opposite of the problems typically associated with RORG--namely short stroking/ failure to lock back. Usually those are due to leaky and/ or improperly staked gas keys.

I've had great luck with the Brit ammo in the past. Please post back once you've identified the culprit.

ny32182
September 10, 2007, 06:31 PM
Rifle has a 5.56 chamber. I always run dry patches down the bore as the last step in cleaning, but I suppose it is possible that some lube dripped from the BCG into the chamber... although I store the rifle muzzle-up, so I don't think that is highly likely.

The ejected brass with the primers still in it did not appear flattened/display punctured primers or other typical signs I know of of having high pressure.

The primers appear a little "flatter" than most others on the loaded rounds/pre-fired though, don't they?

rkh
September 10, 2007, 06:35 PM
What's the make and model of the 20" AR?

I ask because a few less scrupulous manufacturers have been known to stamp 5.56 on receivers fitted with .223 chambered barrels.

Have you ever previously used milsurp ammo in the rifle? If so, what was it and how did it shoot?

ny32182
September 10, 2007, 06:46 PM
The upper is a CMMG factory M16 milspec. The bolt carrier group is LMT milspec.

I have run some GA canned heat, Federal XM193, DRS 62gr commercial reloads, and the Radway Green. Total round count is a little under 500. All the ammo has run perfectly except for the RG.

rkh
September 10, 2007, 07:04 PM
Maybe you could give a hundred rounds or so to a buddy to test out in another AR?

Given the slow burn rate of RORG's stick propellant, blown primers are really puzzling. Although CMMG makes fantastic rifles, I'm still more suspicious of a gun (rather than ammo) problem.

Detritus
September 10, 2007, 07:14 PM
haven't had any problems with any of it "while in use" but while loading the stippers, i discovered that 2 of the 720+ rounds (seller's label said 720 but there were close to 800 in the can) had loose primers, as in the primer fell out and the round would leak powder through the flashhole when found.

ny32182
September 10, 2007, 07:27 PM
I've got carbine length ARs I can shoot it in, but the M16 clone is the only 20 inch (full length gas system) gun I have right now.

As I mentioned before, I had 80 rounds from the same can run fine in a 10.5" gun. I guess I'll just have to stick to using it in the short rifles unless more information can be forthcoming from somewhere.

I did not notice any loose primers on the loaded rounds, but did not really look. Is there a good way to test for this?

aloharover
September 10, 2007, 07:50 PM
I would either find a friend with a 5.56 reamer, or send you upper to a smith with one.
Certainly sounds like a .223 chamber problem.

ny32182
September 10, 2007, 07:53 PM
It is not a .223 chamber.

Bartholomew Roberts
September 10, 2007, 08:00 PM
Doesn't sound like this is a chamber issue since the same rifle runs other 5.56 ammo fine. My guess would be the Radway Green is building up more pressure in the longer barrel and giving you the popped primers, overpressure signs. It runs fine in the carbines and shorties because it exits the muzzle before it builds up that much pressure.

RockyMtnTactical
September 10, 2007, 08:02 PM
I had a bunch of '93 headstamp Radway that worked great for me. No problems in any of my rifles.

rkh
September 11, 2007, 01:28 AM
My guess would be the Radway Green is building up more pressure in the longer barrel


Sorry Bart, I've got to disagree with you here. :p

The Brits use a slower, more progressive powder, but I think it's physically impossible for the chamber pressure to be higher in a 556 when the bullet is at inch 17 or 18, than when the bullet is at inch 14 or 15. Internal chamber pressures are frequently measured on a curve versus the position of the bullet in the barrel. Unless the Brits have powder technology that is light-years ahead of ours, by the time the bullet has traversed 6 or so inches of barrel, the curve has reached its apex and chamber pressures are in decline.

Onmilo
September 11, 2007, 10:57 AM
I have had some issues with Radway Green not fully cycling the action on some rifles though one did have a misdimensioned bolt carrier installed, others were in spec and the stuff still failed to full cycle the actions.
Accuracy has not been any better than steel case Wolf in any rifle I have fired the stuff in either.
I still have a bunch of it sitting in a big Tupperware storage box,,,,,

Bartholomew Roberts
September 11, 2007, 06:50 PM
rkh, like I said, just a guess on my part; but if it runs fine in 16" and doesn't run in a 20" then length of the barrel must be playing some part. I based my guess on the fact that other shooters with the same lot number were reporting it working fine in their 16" - otherwise I would imagine it is just a lot of ammo that is out of spec.

rkh
September 11, 2007, 07:34 PM
it runs fine in 16" and doesn't run in a 20" then length of the barrel must be playing some part


Sorry Bart. Pressure signs don't manifest themselves at the tail end of the pressure curve. Increasing a rifle's barrel length has absolutely no effect on peak chamber pressures, and the pressures are so low by the time the bullet reaches 16" that there have to be other serious problems with the rifle if that's what's causing problems. If cycling difficulties were reported, I might suspect that it was related to the length of the respective gas tubes, but that isn't the case here.

When I get home tonight I'll fire up Quickload and generate a few graphs to illustrate my point.

Either this ammo was defective, or the OP's chamber is out of spec and/ or excessively lubricated. I would suggest that he take it to a competent AR-smith for measurement.

RobZ71LM7
September 11, 2007, 07:46 PM
I would either find a friend with a 5.56 reamer, or send you upper to a smith with one.
Certainly sounds like a .223 chamber problem.

Ditto. You'd be surprised the number of AR's labeled 5.56 that are in reality .223.

asknight
September 12, 2007, 03:48 AM
Makes one wonder why the UK was surplussing out ammunition while they were almost as involved in the WOT as the US at the time the ammo was imported. Was it rejects not even suitable for training purposes?

Detritus
September 12, 2007, 03:59 AM
Makes one wonder why the UK was surplussing out ammunition while they were almost as involved in the WOT as the US at the time the ammo was imported. Was it rejects not even suitable for training purposes?

at least in the case of the batch i bought, i'd say they sold off a bunch of stored ammo that was past it's regulation "use by date" or something similar. i don't think they were rejects b/c the brits wouldn't have stored reject ammo for almost two decades (all of mine is headstamped '89)

Zeke Menuar
September 12, 2007, 04:07 AM
I read over at that "AR" site that there were some issues with '90 Radway.

ZM

Obiwan
September 12, 2007, 11:55 AM
I have never had any issues with RG

Send the remaining ammo to me for testing

I have seen lots of 5.56 chambers that were not correct...get a reamer

www.m-guns.com

You will NOT know for sure until you try

MechAg94
September 12, 2007, 05:52 PM
I have some RG also. Haven't shot much of it.

Have you ever tried the Wolf M193 .223 ammo? That stuff didn't cycle my Armalite very well, but seems to work like a champ in my Saiga.

ny32182
September 12, 2007, 08:45 PM
I've run a couple hundred of Federal XM193 with perfect results, but never tried any Wolf in it.

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