NY State Pistol Permit Proccess


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PacketStorm
September 10, 2007, 10:26 AM
Well I have my CCW application put in with the state of NY and am now waiting for something/anything to happen. I grew up in Michigan and had quite a different process to go through in getting my permit. Basically I went into the police stations, filled out some forms and waited for my background check to clear. After a couple of weeks, I brought my pistol by and they gave me a permit for it.

NY State has gotten quite out of hand. I complete finger prints on file, both hands + palms. I have filled out 6 pages of forms. Gathered 4 "witnesses" (residents of my town/county who will swear they know me and that I am a decent guy).

I will also have to go before the county judge to explain why I need a permit that includes "personal defense". This judge generally issues permits with a big stamp of "Hunting and Target" so you would be in violation to carry your pistol out on a hiking trip into the Adirondack Mountains during a summer trip. Crazy thing is that the state law doesn't include this option in its wording. State law basically says that once you are issued a permit, it is valid throughout the state at any location not explicitly denied. If you do get stopped while carrying out of license, say at Boxmart, you haven't broken the law, just the judges order and he can take away your permit.

If I didn't have family here, I would be out of this state. I've written our states elected senators (not "my" senators) and have of course gotten very helpful replies /insert sarcastic chuckle here/.

What a mess. I just finished watching a video link from another post on the site - it was Ted Nugent talking about free men having the right to defend themselves and their family. So much for having those rights in NY.

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30 cal slob
September 10, 2007, 10:29 AM
not valid in the five boroughs of NYC, fyi.

good luck with the application.

PacketStorm
September 10, 2007, 10:31 AM
Yeah. I would not want to think about going through NYC with the pistol. I've been looking for shops that do pistol training. Most of the good courses I've found are near NYC. If I do sign up for a tactical course, I will have to find out how to get through or around the city if need be.

hexidismal
September 10, 2007, 10:48 AM
PacketStorm, what county of NY are we talking about here ? Some counties are actually quite reasonable, while others... well not so much.

CNYCacher
September 10, 2007, 11:19 AM
I also am curious which county you applied in. Here in Cayuga County, an unrestricted CCW is the norm.

Here are some tips: Hound your 4 references and make sure that they mail those questionaires back. You may want to invite them all over for dinner or something and a little fill-out party. Make up some stamped envelopes for em too.

Hound the police department you applied to, once they have the 4 references and the FBI check in-hand, they are supposed to forward the whole packet over to the judge. If they are missing one of the reference sheets, no one is going to call you and say, "Hey, we would really like to move ahead with this application, but we don't have everything."

K-Romulus
September 10, 2007, 11:53 AM
Yes, that is the epitome of the "relatively simple and reasonable restrictions" we are fighting against.

PacketStorm
September 10, 2007, 12:04 PM
I'm in Erie county.

MilsurpShooter
September 10, 2007, 12:28 PM
They do that in Erie? I thought it was a NYC and Westchester only thing. Man this state is really getting out of hand, I just hope the DC case will give us a foothold to start turning some of this stuff in our favor

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I feel for ya, I attempted to go through the process myself but decided to wait on it until I really find a handgun I want to buy and have some use for. Good luck with it

perpster
September 10, 2007, 12:42 PM
PacketStorm, I am dreadfully sorry that no NY'ers bothered to tell you that the NYS Pistol Permit Proccess does not apply equally across the state. If you go to an urban area there is no permit proccess at all. Just look for a car with its trunk open in a "bad neighborhood" and you can avoid all the red tape. Almost everyone else does it, so why shouldn't you?

Rokyudai
September 10, 2007, 12:49 PM
I agree with ya Packet...thats one reason I moved...to Texas...I am originally from Cattaraugus County (Western NY state). When I applied, it was all that you said, with the exception of going before a judge. I do recall writing my reasons for the permit as "target shooting" and "hunting", though, the selfdefense thing was more or less a given. I had to travel to the pistol permit clerk's office in a town about 30 minutes away (Little Valley). This is where the county court convenes. During my hour visit, I was fingerprinted half a dozen times, had my picture taken, and submitted the small stack of applications. I had my four "witnesses to my sanity" as it were :evil: . One was a former school principal, one was a reporter for a local newspaper, another was a county legislator, and the last was a coworker who happens to be a Board Certified psychiatrist and taught at University of Buffalo. I figured I would stack the references to my benefit after all!

After all that, gave them my fees (which god help you if you don't use exactly what they tell you to)...and waited for 9 months before I got it. Hope you don't have as long to wait.

tpl77
September 10, 2007, 12:52 PM
I live in Erie county also and find it rather amusing. I actually got my permit in the late 1980's and for some small time in that era, they didn't put any use at the top of a permit. I had my address updated on the permit a couple years ago, and they then added "hunting/ target" to the top of the permit. Somewhere back in my application it must have asked me what I intend to use the pistol for. Do you know if I can have this restriction removed?

gotta love NY !!

CountGlockula
September 10, 2007, 12:59 PM
It looks like you and me are in the same boat. I'm in CA.

Carl N. Brown
September 10, 2007, 01:26 PM
Fordham Urban Law Journal, November, 1998, carried an article
by Suzanne Novak whose title tells all:
WHY THE NEW YORK STATE SYSTEM FOR OBTAINING A LICENSE TO
CARRY A CONCEALED WEAPON IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Basically, Novak's argument is that the Sullivan Act violates due
process and equal rights. She doe not even get into any
RKBA or Second Amendment issues.

Discretionary permit laws, like the Sullivan Act, represent rule by
whim of man, and not rule of law. If car license, pilot's license or
ham radio license was administered like the NY pistol license,
there would be no question that the discretionary licensing system
is unconstitutional by any sense of due process or equal rights
under law.

romma
September 10, 2007, 01:29 PM
This judge generally issues permits with a big stamp of "Hunting and Target"

Just tell the authorities you were Hunting and Target Shooting Violent Criminals if you are caught anywhere... (Kidding)

perpster
September 10, 2007, 02:45 PM
The Sullivan Act was passed in 1911 IIRC. I wonder if the 1911 had anything to do with that.

TonyB
September 10, 2007, 03:35 PM
Yeah,the rules vary widely depending on county.I live in good one.Many of my shooting buddies don't.It is possible to get your "hunting and Target"restrictions off,again depending on who signs your permit and if they're pro or anti.Kind of sucks.In my area the pistol clerk pretty much runs the show(she's awesome)..but sometimes it's a judge,or sherrif and they can be easy or had to deal with.

Carl N. Brown
September 10, 2007, 04:27 PM
Sounds as inconsistent as the old Virginia discretionary system,
before they got "shall-issue."

perpster
September 10, 2007, 04:31 PM
If NY didn't get gun-friendly with a Republican Governor (Pataki) and Republican Senate, it doesn't look too good with a Democrat Governor (Spitzer). Of course, there's also the biparty Republican nee Democrat Mayor of NYC who is leading the anti charge nationwide. A pretty bleak 2nd Amendment picture in NY.

trickyasafox
September 10, 2007, 10:57 PM
yea we should start a NYS support group. i'm in Onondaga county.

dhoomonyou
September 11, 2007, 08:22 AM
From a former New Yorker., ME

maybe NY should consider all of the constitution NOT JUST the ones it likes.

Prof. A. Wickwire
September 11, 2007, 08:36 AM
Dhoomonyou,

From a former New Yorker., ME
maybe NY should consider all of the constitution NOT JUST the ones it likes.

I grew up in Manhattan and moved to the Albany area in 1987. One conclusion I came to after only cursory research is perhaps New York State should pay attention to it's own Civil Rights Laws.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed."

New York State Civil Rights Law Article 2, Section 4

How is a Civil Rights law not for the people?

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

dhoomonyou
September 11, 2007, 08:45 AM
PROFESSOR,
thanks, thats why I moved to FLORIDA.

MilsurpShooter
September 11, 2007, 09:07 AM
How is a Civil Rights law not for the people?

When it's inconvenient for the ruling class? :eek:

rero360
September 11, 2007, 09:11 AM
I have my permit through Onondaga countyas well, was a bit of a hassle, but they also did call me a couple of times to keep me updated, let me know that one of my references never sent the paperwork in and all that.

However seeing how I may be moving to the Fredonia area when I return to the states, I'll probably have my permit transfered over as well.

Took me 6 months to get mine, would have been one if my references had cooperated.

Good luck my man.

PacketStorm
September 11, 2007, 11:34 AM
I live in Erie county also and find it rather amusing. I actually got my permit in the late 1980's and for some small time in that era, they didn't put any use at the top of a permit. I had my address updated on the permit a couple years ago, and they then added "hunting/ target" to the top of the permit. Somewhere back in my application it must have asked me what I intend to use the pistol for. Do you know if I can have this restriction removed?

You can. I've heard the following from differnet sources:

The judge will often state the once you have had your permit for 3 years (without having any trouble with the law) then come back a re-apply.

Others have said that once you have your permit, find a good atty who will fight the issue with the judge, just wait until after you already have it, or the judge will drag his/her feet and you won't see the permit for a few years of legal wrangling.

Still others have said that if there is a good reason - like you get attacked while in town and your car window is smashed out/graffiti is put on your property (from gangs or such) then you can show there is a need for personal protection and you would most likely get the restriction removed.

The audacity of the judges and the unlawful restrictions being put into effect really get to me. I found some posts online about Hon. Penny M. Wolfgang. This judge supposedly overturned the restrictions put on some licenses in Erie county upon appeal and ruled they were unconstitutional. Unfortunately I haven't been able to confirm this. I want to get my initial permit and then see how much I have to fight to get the full unrestricted license.

WVleo
September 11, 2007, 11:50 AM
Hi, Worked in Erie County, what a joke ( State Senator Dale Volker Ha Ha ) most dangerous part of WNY in my opinion ( altho not that bad ) . Lived in Wyoming Co. in Arcade, had My and My wife's permit in 3 months , good thru out the state. Moved to Eastern Panhandle of Wv ( 1 1/2 hours outside of DC ) because of wife's family . Got My permit here and Pa in days . There Your elected officials that are the problem in Ny I think anyway ......WVleo

Saturnine
September 11, 2007, 07:30 PM
How much did the permit end up costing you? I've been trying to figure out what the total is after all those fees, and I think it's over $200. I hope I'm wrong.

Dorryn
September 11, 2007, 08:06 PM
Theres your problem! Erie county, Buffalo hates guns. Ontario county, where I got my CCW, was simple and easy. Sure, I had to wait 6 months for it, but wham bam done without any hassle or having to meet a judge or any of that which you described.

jlday70
September 11, 2007, 08:37 PM
I am down in Chautauqua county, and had my permit back less than two months after I turned in my application no restrictions...Thank god Chautauqua county is fairly conservative.

rero360
September 11, 2007, 10:50 PM
it cost me 99 dollars for the background check and three dollars to update my address and add a pistol to the permit.

however because I'm military or just have a honest face, they didn't charge me the twenty dollar fingerprinting fee, ten dollar fee to just get the paperwork, and because I had just qualed with the 9mm at the base and was able to get a letter from the instructors saying I had done so I saved an additional 45 to 65 dollars by not having to take a handgun safety course.

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