Why in the world Steyr the "blacksheep" of the polymer handgun market?


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Snowdog
September 10, 2007, 02:53 PM
Iím having difficulty understanding why Steyr is having such a hard time catching the attention of US consumers. Flipping through my CDNN catalog this morning, I found them offering the Steyr MA1 9mm or .40S&W for $349 NIB.
Last year I purchased the previous model M40 and still love the pistol. The ergonomics are possibly the best Iíve experienced in any handgun and itís proved itself accurate and 100% reliable.
With the loaded-chamber indicator, accessory rail, trigger safety, manual safety (albeit a bit unorthodox, yet effective), rapid target acquisition sites (trapezoidal, again a bit unorthodox, yet effective) and other features, it's not lacking sophistication. With the cut rifling, it can also be fired with lead bullets without the polygonal-barrel controversy. It's also built like a tank (yet weighs a little under 30oz unloaded).

Seriously, if I were forced to choose between an M40 or a Glock 22 or 23 for duty or defense, I wouldn't hesitate to choose the Steyr.
I'm seriously considering the purchase of this updated Steyr simply due to the price.

Does anyone know there arenít more Steyr owners out there? Is it the lack of advertising? Lack of customer service (Iíve never had to contact them)? Lack of accessories such as molded holsters? There must be some reason.
Does anyone know of any US agencies or PD departments that tot Steyrs?


I suppose the argument can be made that theyíre uglyÖ but the same can be said of Glocks and XDs.

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fletcher
September 10, 2007, 02:58 PM
Does anyone know there aren’t more Steyr owners out there? Is it the lack of advertising?
My guess would be a combination of style (it's not a very good looking gun IMO) and that local gun stores just don't seem to carry them for whatever reason. I've never seen one in person, not even at a gun show. Lack of advertising is probably another big reason.

Black Majik
September 10, 2007, 03:08 PM
If Steyr is the black sheep of the polymer market... the SIG Pro is it's brother. For some reason, both don't do well compared to the more popular polymer guns.

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 10, 2007, 03:11 PM
My guess would be a combination of style (it's not a very good looking gun IMO)...
Really?

http://www.steyrarms.com/uploads/pics/STEYR_M-A1_large_view_01.jpg

What do you find less attractive about this gun compared with other more popular polymer frame pistols? As far as aesthetics go, I'd say it has a more interesting look than any Glock I've ever seen.

Devonai
September 10, 2007, 03:11 PM
If they offered three-dot sights as an option I would take the pistol more seriously. $349 is a good deal, though.

fletcher
September 10, 2007, 03:12 PM
What do you find less attractive about this gun compared with other more polymer frame pistols?
I really don't like the back - looks very disproportional compared to the front.

Silvanus
September 10, 2007, 03:13 PM
Same as with the P99. A lot of people don't even know they exist. My guess is that it's the lack of (good) marketing.

looks very disproportional compared to the front.

I agree, that bothers me a lot. And I like the look of Glocks and Walthers...

Snowdog
September 10, 2007, 03:16 PM
Ugly, maybe... but it's definitely more of an "interestingly ugly" than a "repulsively ugly". :D

Yep, $349 is a steal in my book!
I believe I actually will buy the MA1 now that I've thought about it. I see they've done away with the manual safety, but that's not a significant concern for me. Besides, Glock doesn't have a manual safety and appears to have done just fine without one. It was a somewhat useful feature though.

The lack of girth in the rear seriously allows your hand to get a high grip, reducing the snappy recoil of the hotter .40S&W varieties to feel downright mild in comparison to other .40S&W handguns I have or have fired. I'm sure the distribution of weight also helps (the slide is massively stout, nothing delicate here). Besides, the aesthetics are quite deceiving; the pistol fits me like a glove... the ergonomics were definitely considered (and perhaps a focal point) during this handgun's creation. One should handle a Steyr to fully understand what I mean.

Did I mention they're tanks? I would imagine the way these handguns are made, they must have an incredibly lengthy service life.

kirkcdl
September 10, 2007, 03:25 PM
Complete lack of factory support in the US is the problem.Go to a Glock match,there's a factory gunsmith there that will completely rebuild your Glock if it needs it,for free.Try to simply locate a Steyr factory smith in the US.

That said,I owned and (regretfully) sold a model S40,and I currently own a model M40 which I'll never sell.It's one of my favorite guns.

Now if I can only find another S40 that the seller isn't trying to make a house payment from the sale of...:banghead:

Devonai,the Trapezoids do take some practice,but after a couple hundred rounds you'll be much faster at rapid-fire and follow-up shots than any 3-dot setup on the market.The sights look ugly,for sure,but they work the best once you're accustomed to them...I wish they were available on the market for some of my other guns.A tritium version would be sweet...

Snowdog,are you a Steyrclub.com member??

Browning
September 10, 2007, 03:55 PM
It's probably a combination of poor marketing and poor advertising.

Steyr doesn't advertise much, so people don't know about them, so gun stores don't stock them, so people don't buy them and as a result they haven't ever really been popular. Most of the people that I know haven't ever heard of them. With all the popular firearms out there the way that they got started at first with a new gun was to advertise the crap out of it and to basically give stuff away for free to gun writers so that they'd write about it.

That would be my guess anyway as there's nothing wrong with their guns.

Warren
September 10, 2007, 05:53 PM
I've fired one, it was an inaccurate jam-o-matic POS.

armtpo
September 10, 2007, 06:05 PM
I owned a steyr M9 and regrettable traded it in to the factory for a new model m40a1. The original 9mm I found to be very accurate after I took those horrible trapezoid sights off in favor of 3 dot. Also, the 9mm versions were known to be, and acknowledged by the factory, problamatic. The new model 40 cal just didnt shoot as nice, feel as good, and they gave me new factory night sights that were dim and didnt lend to accuracy instead of switching out with my own. I honestly did enjoy shooting the original m9 with safety when it ran smooth but then again it was always a toss up on how it would run. I sold the m40a1 shortly after receiving it.

Snowdog
September 10, 2007, 06:06 PM
I've fired one, it was an inaccurate jam-o-matic POS.


Funny you say that, I can say the same thing about the only Glock 20 I've fired... it wouldn't feed more than 3 rounds without feed issues. I was seriously put off with the model and felt it was garbage. I have since learned what the vast majority of G20s are absolutely reliable.

Obviously the G20 I fired was a lemon (which all manufacturers pump out... all manufacturers, bar none).

Obviously, the Steyr you fired was also a lemon.

Snowdog,are you a Steyrclub.com member

No, I didn't know that site existed. I'll check it out. Thanks!

Mortech
September 10, 2007, 08:11 PM
I love the trap sights on my M357 , their biggest problem is having a stable customer support outlet here in the states . Even mags weren't that hard to find (I just bought and used the 40S&W ones).

tinygnat219
September 10, 2007, 09:52 PM
Maybe it's the fact that they don't have a large presence here in the US, or they just don't do any effective marketing unlike Springfield and the Croatian XD.

Who knows? Maybe they should look at Kel-Tec to do their marketing for them.

Rustynuts
September 10, 2007, 10:11 PM
That is one fugly gun in the pic!

benEzra
September 10, 2007, 11:10 PM
Part of it may stem from bad timing. Just after they introduced it initially, to a lot of favorable press in the gun magazines, the Steyr company was sold (IIRC) and importation was interrupted for at least a year. So that window of opportunity to capitalize on the "what's new" thing passed without them being able to establish much of a foothold.

I've read a lot of good things about the design, and the low bore axis reportedly makes it very shootable and controllable. I think the sighting concept also makes sense, though it's hard to say for sure without actually shooting one.

Ala Dan
September 11, 2007, 05:31 AM
As has been written before, Steyr cannot keep a U.S. importer~! :eek:

Recently, GSI in Trussville (AL) was a Steyr importer; but now, Steyr is long
gone from their inventory. This could be in part due too the fact that the
owner of Steyr in Austria has [or had?] cancer? At least that is a very loud
rumor that has been circulating for quite sometime. :uhoh::(

Moonclip
September 11, 2007, 06:01 AM
Sigmas get little respect also except for the low asking price which makes them more prevalent than I think they would be on their own merits. I recently picked up a used sw9ve for $100 and even at that price point I'm not too impressed.

Steyr seems to have a knack for producing unorthodox handgun designs like the GB.

Harley Quinn
September 11, 2007, 12:39 PM
Cheap :what:Not really.

http://www.steyrarms.com/index.php?id=208

They are known for the rifle (assault) side of it, more than pistol.

Snowdog
September 11, 2007, 01:07 PM
I'm sure that's the MSRP, not what they typically go for on the shelves... though if they were better known, I can see them being sold for those prices; they're very well made. It seems whenever CDNN gets a shipment, they consitantly go for less than $350, regardless of the model. My M40 was around $329 when I puchased it about 18 months ago. The current MA1 models CDNN is offering in either .40S&W or 9mm is still $349 (or $339 if you'd like to purchase 3 or more :p ).

HammerBite
September 11, 2007, 05:21 PM
I really don't like the back - looks very disproportional compared to the front.
I agree that it doesn't look pretty, but it does allow you to grip the gun a lot higher, which is generally considered to be a good thing.

Also notice the trigger finger clearance cut in the frame and the trigger angle. Everything seems to indicate a high grip.

Eyesac
September 11, 2007, 09:22 PM
Who knows, maybe I'll check one out for the next pistol...

Harley Quinn
September 11, 2007, 11:24 PM
I agree that it doesn't look pretty, but it does allow you to grip the gun a lot higher, which is generally considered to be a good thing.

Also notice the trigger finger clearance cut in the frame and the trigger angle. Everything seems to indicate a high grip.

Some may not like that particular feel of shooting, it comes straight back into the hand and not as much rise at the muzzle.

Some complain their elbow hurts after shooting that type of recoil gun.

These are not the heavy recoil pistols as revolvers are and especially the TC and the rifle cartridges they are known for, those who don't understand exercise to improve ones strength, need to partake of it.
Helps in shooting quite a bit, strong grip is good, squeeze a ball, it will help. Squeeze leaving the index finger out of it.

Then squeeze the index and the thumb at the same time.

trueblue1776
September 11, 2007, 11:28 PM
WuzYoungOnceToo-

I agree, that is a fine looking gun, I hadn't seen the new models yet. I haven't wanted a new pistol in a while, I think I do now.

StrikeEagle
September 12, 2007, 02:04 AM
I really don't like the back - looks very disproportional compared to the front.


Ya, it has Pinch-Butt... :uhoh:

bannockburn
September 13, 2007, 04:04 PM
I have an early M9 and I've been very happy with it. I originally thought the Walther P99 was the most ergonomic pistol that I ever handled; the M9 felt even better. The trigger is not as smooth as my Glock but it's still serviceable. I liked the trigger guard safety; seemed like a smart place to put it too. The trap sights do take some getting used to but I kind of like them on this gun. Why not very popular? Well when they finally did get to the dealer's shelves, instead of the high cap mags, they were stuck with the ten rounders. And after reading the manual I found out that there was supposed to be a spare mag with it; mine only came with one. The importer was no longer handling them; they sent me to another distibutor who eventually sent me one. So definitely the lack of product and service support has probably hurt sales, along with the obvious competition that other established manufacturers have in this particular segment of the gun market.

doc2rn
September 13, 2007, 07:00 PM
Either you love them or you hate them. I really like my shootin' my buddies, says he wants to trade for my PX4. I think I am getting the better end of the deal.

Harley Quinn
September 13, 2007, 07:25 PM
Either you love them or you hate them. I really like my shootin' my buddies, says he wants to trade for my PX4. I think I am getting the better end of the deal.

I would say so:uhoh:

I was handling one today, it was good feeling and sighting quick (in my paw),
interesting sights, one step ahead of all the others, they have been for years with the assault guns.
;)

Mr Kablammo
September 13, 2007, 07:54 PM
I find the grip to be on the small side. The sights are OK. Accuracy is acceptable. The trigger is excellent, IMO. If you could get the Steyr trigger in an XD frame then you would have a superb gun. The problem is the too frequent double-feed. You have to hold the slide open, push the bullet back into the mag, and then finish clearing. I think rate of jamming is about 1-100. Yow!

Snowdog
September 13, 2007, 08:07 PM
The problem is the too frequent double-feed.

Not to sound like a spokesman for Steyr, but uh... what?
Double feed? Maybe with the specimen you've encountered, however I've never heard of such a thing from other Steyr owners I know. I had a EAA Witness that had a penchant for doing that, but I certainly wouldn't claim that particular issue was a problem "too frequent" of the breed overall, as this was the only Witness I had personal experience with. It's kind of a damning thing to say, by the way, without citing any sources.

I think rate of jamming is about 1-100. Yow!

If this is something you're experiencing with your Steyr, obviously your Steyr is in disrepair; send it in to remedy the problem. My Steyr's rate of jamming is about 0 in 3000 (approximately). My Steyr is one of the few handguns I've owned that has never "jammed" in any fashion.
I'd say these results are far more typical than those you've encountered. Seriously, if you have a Steyr with such issues, have it addressed. No one should ever accept a pistol that malfunctions once every 100 rounds; it's completely unacceptable by any standard.

Harley Quinn
September 13, 2007, 08:14 PM
Talking to the owner of the gunshop today he said when folks complain he allows them to shoot into the tank in back. Never has he experienced a problem with a Steyr.

He mentioned a person was having a problem and brought back a gun because it jammed. He took it into the back room and shot it, no problem.

Told the guy to get some lessons on how to shoot.:neener:

Gary

jpwilly
September 14, 2007, 12:59 AM
A few years ago you could get them at Davidsons online for around $300. A co worker of mine got one and we went to my range to shoot it. It was a terrific little pistol. No jams excellent accuracy! The sights were different but I liked them, everything doesn't have to be 3 dot sights you know. My Taurus automatics have the Heinie straight eights and I can shoot them as well as 3 dot sights.

Dr. Peter Venkman
September 14, 2007, 05:19 AM
Maybe it's because they sell .50 rifles to extremists who give it to insurgents who shoot our troops. :mad:

Drifter721
September 14, 2007, 06:16 AM
Glock already answered all the questions quite well, many years before the other poly clones started to show up.

Mr Kablammo
September 15, 2007, 01:18 AM
Do a search on the phrase "steyr and jamming". Read the threads with title ***Need Help***, and Streyr vs P95. Complaints about jams in each thread. There are also many compliments.

Thunderbear
September 15, 2007, 01:08 PM
Probably because half the world can't spell it, let alone pronounce it. Suits me fine, I'm a black sheep too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/Mjollnir/Random/Picture702.jpg

Harley Quinn
September 15, 2007, 01:40 PM
ThunderBear:D
John Anderson Song says it all.

:uhoh:

Black Sheep Lyrics

Artist(Band):John Anderson Review The Song (0)


My daddy was a brakeman on a highball traveling train
Mama she raised four little children and the family had a good name
And papa and mama wanted all for us they never had
Big brother little brother sister too none of them turned out half bad
Cept me I'm the black sheep of the family

Big brother went to college and became a doctor man
I guess he makes about a million dollars a year off the folks on insurance plan
He's got a big long Mercedes Benz and a house overlooking the town
He sits in his Jacuzzi and he watches the sun go down
And he feels real sorry for me I'm the black sheep of the family

Yeah I drive me a big ol' semi truck I'm makin' payments on a two room shack
My wife she waits on tables and at night she rubs my back
And I tell her what my papa said to my mama when he got off a highball train
Wake me up early be good to my dogs and teach my children to pray

Little sister married a banker yeah he owns a country club
He bought her a big ol' racing horse and a funny lookin' little dog
He buys her big rings and diamonds and a brand new Japanese yacht
They like to get together and talk about all the things they've got
But they never mention me I'm the black sheep of the family

Yeah I drive me a big ol' semi truck... etc...

I'm sayin' woman wake me up early be good to my dogs
And teach my children to pray


HQ

Conqueror
September 16, 2007, 12:03 AM
I had a M40A1 and I regret selling it every day. It was a fantastic weapon. Never jammed, never had any issues at all. Easy to clean, easy to own, easy to shoot. Great guns, if I ever find another I will buy it without hesitation.

Browning
September 16, 2007, 09:34 AM
Too bad that the Steyr GB pistol never caught on.

When I was a kid a friend of my fathers had one and I loved it.

Now they're expensive and rare, which is too bad.

It was a great pistol.

I know that alot of people think of Aug's or the M40 when they think of Steyr, but I think of that GB.

http://www.remtek.com/arms/steyr/gb/gb.htm

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg71-e.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_GB

18 rounds of hand filling and comfortable 9mm goodness that was accurate as hell.

patentmike
September 16, 2007, 10:23 AM
"Marching to the beat of a different drummer for 100 years." might be a marketing slogan, if they had marketing.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/patentmike/LEFTSIDEc.jpg

Plumber576
September 16, 2007, 06:00 PM
Maybe it has something to do with Steyr selling .50 caliber firearms to Iran and being banned from US import?

trueblue1776
September 16, 2007, 06:04 PM
Maybe it has something to do with Steyr selling .50 caliber firearms to Iran and being banned from US import?

Do guns commit crimes on their own now?

Plumber576
September 16, 2007, 06:26 PM
Hey, I'm jsut saying that's why they might be a black sheep. Not meant to be a smart-ass remark, just an idea.

Conqueror
September 16, 2007, 07:56 PM
Maybe it has something to do with Steyr selling .50 caliber firearms to Iran and being banned from US import?
Steyr did nothing wrong. The sale was pre-approved by the Austrian government, and transactions between Austrian companies and Iran are not under the purview of US law. I've heard rumors about an import ban but seen nothing to substantiate the rumor; as far as I've been able to tell, Steyr merely had troubles with its US distributor, not our gov't.

Plumber576
September 17, 2007, 02:58 AM
I stand corrected, there is no definite ban I can find.

mons meg
September 17, 2007, 05:17 AM
Just found this thread...I'm with Snowdog. My M40 (original) malf rate is about 1 in 2500, and that was when my wife shot it and got a stovepipe when she limp wristed it. I've shot "white box" plinker ammo all the way up to some crazy Georgia Arms defense ammo through it. The GA stuff let me know it was there, but was still controllable.

I bought it to be my carry gun, and carry it is what I do. I had no problem finding holsters for it online...ended up getting a High Noon IWB that fits real nice.

When people ask about it, I tell them it's "More Glock than Glock" :)

atblis
September 17, 2007, 11:14 AM
Steyr has had issues. I believe the basically went out of business not too long ago. Switched importers. etc. etc.

Also, Steyr didn't do the right things to get it in the public eye

See Glock, Springfield and the XD, etc.

Police don't issue them. That's good publicity they lack.

10-Ring
September 17, 2007, 07:09 PM
I was impressed w/ the Steyr I shot & was on the verge of buying one in 9mm but I think the lack of a dealer / service network plus a relatively unproven firearm was the deal killer for me.

Noxx
September 17, 2007, 07:14 PM
I've really been eyeballing the new Steyrs. They're inexpensive, the sights are.... easy to acquire, if a bit wonky, and they fit my hand pretty well despite my general dislike for polyguns.

Dr. Peter Venkman
September 18, 2007, 06:15 PM
Do guns commit crimes on their own now?

Gee, I must have missed the ethical part of selling firearms to totalitarian regimes. :rolleyes:

Owen
September 18, 2007, 06:26 PM
the trapezoidal sights are a little difficult to get used to.

trueblue1776
September 18, 2007, 07:21 PM
Gee, I must have missed the ethical part of selling firearms to totalitarian regimes.

I didn't know there was an embargo. Iran is hardly totalitarian, they foster animosity against the US that's about it. President Ahmadinejad is a nationalist, just like our president.

Conqueror
September 18, 2007, 09:46 PM
^^^don't make the mistake of thinking Ahmadinejad runs the country though. Every decision he makes has to go through Ayatollah Khamenei, who has supreme veto power, and who is a Shia religious leader.

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