[TheFrontRange]

I have a Kimber Custom with the factory standard full-length guide rod. When the time comes for recoil spring replacement, would I gain (or lose) anything appreciably by switching over to a standard-length guide rod at the same time?

In making the switch I figure I'd need the new guide rod, a new recoil spring plug, and a new spring. I'm guessing my existing barrel bushing would still work. What size/weight spring would I need to switch to? (Heck, I must confess, I don't even know the poundage of my current spring! It's whatever came new on the gun 1,400 or so rounds ago.)

All this said, my Kimber works well in its current guise...I know that old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I guess I'm just looking for something that might be within reach of my very, VERY limited "gunsmithing" abilities LOL! :)

[Tamara]

I'm ditching the FLGR on my current Kimber in favor of a stubby GI one. IMO, a FLGR doesn't really add anything on a CCW gun and subtracts from its utility.

[TheFrontRange]

I'm ditching the FLGR on my current Kimber in favor of a stubby GI one.

Tamara, what brand of new parts are you using for the conversion? And, was I including everything one would need to make the switch (new spring and plug in addition to the new guide rod)?

Also, what model Kimber are you making this change on? Just curious...mine is a five-inch Custom.

Thanks!

[Al Thompson]

I did the same on mine a year or so ago. No adverse effects. I used a local outfits parts, but (IMHO) Wilson has good stuff.

[Tamara]

Tamara, what brand of new parts are you using for the conversion? And, was I including everything one would need to make the switch (new spring and plug in addition to the new guide rod)?

I dunno what brand; whatever my 'smith scared up for me. Yup, all you need is a stubby guide rod and plug (and a spring if you feel like it). Actually, most FLGR spring retainers will work with a stubby GI guide rod, but your gun will look like it's a .45/.32 over-and-under. ;)

Also, what model Kimber are you making this change on? Just curious...mine is a five-inch Custom.

Also a five inch custom; an old Clackamas gun.

[BigG]

NOTE: if it's a two piece FLGR, remember to unscrew it before you throw it into two different parts of the lake. ;)

[45auto]

I believe Ed Brown sells the parts that you want.
Of course, the Brownells catalog will probably give you more choices.

Spring weight depends on your load, but a 16lb is a pretty safe bet for hardball and lower( reasonably).
I don't know what Kimber uses as a standard, but you have time with only 1400 rounds on the spring.

[Steve Smith]

The first thing I did to my latest Spriingfield was to remove the FLGR and put in a stubby. Field maintenance is a good thing.

[E357]

I think you want to hear about the springs and plug. I believe your will still work, but you might want to get a standard plug so you won't see the little hole in the front. Someboby please correct me as I don't have any "normal" 1911's. For normal loads most people use about 16.5 springs.

Elliot

[Kruzr]

A gov't size Kimber has a 16# factory spring in it. Changing out the guide rod won't affect the spring rating.

[BigG]

Doesn't a Kimber have the non-standard Blunderbuss bbl sans bushing?

[popeye]

Only the Kimbers shorter than 5" have bushingless system. I.E. Compact. Once you remove G.R. front cocking serrations are not only ugly but super-floo-us.

[BigG]

Boy, I swore TaxPhD had a 5" Kimmy with a blunderbuss bushingless lockup.

[popeye]

BigG.......you could be right, Kimber has more models than Carter had pills.

[4v50 Gary]

Full length guide rods - well, they made $ for some folks.

[Gunfyter]

Ok, I too have a Kimber 5". Just for the sake of argument, why do away with the rod? What does a short rod do that the long one won't? Or, was the FLRG the answer to a nonexistant problem?

[Steve Smith]

I just don't like having to have a tool to dissasemble the gun.

[Tamara]

Full length guide rods aid in extraction and feeding...


...extraction of money from your bank account and feeding it into the account of the person selling the FLGR. ;)


I don't mind 'em on purely target/range guns; there's one in my Les Baer. I won't have one in a CCW piece, however, as they add nothing to a fighting handgun and detract from your ability to rack the gun on any convenient edge or corner. The fact that serious fighting 1911's like the Baer TRS, Wilson CQB and Springfield Pro don't have full length guide rods is, perhaps, significant.

[Sean Smith]

I won't have one in a CCW piece, however, as they add nothing to a fighting handgun and detract from your ability to rack the gun on eny convenient edge or corner.

You know, it occurs to me that the trendy Novak (or equivalent ripoff) rear sights on those guns are a "tactical" handicap, because you can't use them to rack the gun by hooking them on something like you could with 1911 sights that aren't made just to look cool. In that light, the ever-lovin' Novak sights are just as "un-tactical" as a FLGR is. :p

If you obsess of that kind of stuff, the Trijicon 1911 rear sight or the Yost/Robar style rear sight would be more "tactical," and still allow the rear-sight-racking drill (and a better sight picture than the teeny traditional 1911 sights...)

Personally, I don't care about any of the above. :evil:

[TheFrontRange]

I just don't like having to have a tool to dissasemble the gun.

A huge "thank you" to all who replied to my questions here...and I agree with Steve Smith's remark above...I find myself making sure I have a barrel bushing wrench EVERYWHERE right now hahaha...and for some reason it took me two or three gun shows to even find somebody local who carried the darn things in the first place! :)

[sm]

I'm with Tamara , I agree 100%

I have just dug into my gunsmith's whatnot box and grabbed the stubby and stuff and replace mine to GI set up. My Kimber had a 16#, I replaced with a 18.5# from Wolff.

I may have one with a FLGR, I think I used it to show students the difference. I need to check on that one--it feels left out I bet.;)

[Southern Raider]

I just don't like having to have a tool to dissasemble the gun.
If made in reference to the two piece guide rod, I have to agree. These have no place on a defensive sidearm and are a PITA on a target weapon.

For the one piece guide rod, just eject the mag and use the tip of the floorplate to push down on the plug. Yeah, it's a "tool", but it's one that generally can be found with the rest of the gun.

[Sean Smith]

For the one piece guide rod, just eject the mag and use the tip of the floorplate to push down on the plug. Yeah, it's a "tool", but it's one that generally can be found with the rest of the gun.

But wait! A FLGR isn't tactical because... uh... somebody said so, and Novaks are tactical because... uh... somebody said so...

:neener:

[dleong]

But wait! A FLGR isn't tactical because... uh... somebody said so, and Novaks are tactical because... uh... somebody said so...
A FLGR isn't considered tactical unless it is painted black. More tactical points if it is flat black as opposed to a glossy black.

DL

[TheFrontRange]

For the one piece guide rod, just eject the mag and use the tip of the floorplate to push down on the plug. Yeah, it's a "tool", but it's one that generally can be found with the rest of the gun.

Thanks for the tip, Southern Raider...I'll be giving this a try!

[Tamara]

But wait! A FLGR isn't tactical because... uh... somebody said so, and Novaks are tactical because... uh... somebody said so...

Did you know that you're the only person to use the word "tactical" in this thread? :p

Okay, Sean, here's your chance to be the first person to adequately explain to me what benefit a full-length guide rod confers on a 1911. (...and please don't tell me it "keeps the spring from kinking" or it "adds a whole extra ounce out by the muzzle for faster splits.")

Any honest 1911 smith will tell you that they put in a FLGR because customers expect to see one on a gun; it's no more functional than the hood ornament on a Studebaker. It reduces functionality, complicates takedown and reassembly, and gives nothing back for all that. Why have one?

:confused:

[Sean Smith]

Did you know that you're the only person to use the word "tactical" in this thread?

And did you know that you are making the mistake of taking my smart-assed remarks even pseudo-seriously? :D

OK, here is my sorta-serious take on it, for what it's worth...

The practical benefits of a FLGR are, at best, iffy. Their main benefits are subjective, by making a gun "feel" tighter and smoother when you cycle the gun by hand. They also do put more weight in a useful place (under the muzzle), and do offer the slight theoretical advantage of making the spring compress and expand in a more uniform manner. Just waving your hands and saying "don't use argument X" is no way to argue anything. :p

The practical disadvantages of a FLGR tend to be overstated too. You don't NEED a tool to disassemble a 1911 with a one-piece FLGR at all, unless the bushing is fitted so tightly that you need a wrench to turn the sucker. Of course, if the bushing is too tight to turn without a tool, that really isn't the fault of the FLGR, now is it?

You can just use your thumb, or the magazine to depress the plug and then turn the bushing.

I'll be the first to agree that two-piece guide rods just plain suck; they shoot themselves un-screwed, for instance, which is a pretty big disadvantage. And if you glue them together like some people do, why use a two-piece setup in the first place.

:confused:

And they don't prevent you from racking the gun on a convenient edge or corner, either. They may negate one way of doing it. But so what? So do most sights that people use on their guns... yet you don't hear anybody complaining about that... probably because it is, at best, a peripheral issue on any gun for any use. Very few guns other than the 1911 use stubby guide rods, so by your reasoning all those Glocks, SigSauers, and so forth should be strictly for range use too...? ;)

Are you a flighty, impractical shooter because you have guns with Novaks, when other sight designs would have a practical benefit and still give you a good sight picture? After all, it " reduces functionality" by your own definition, and sights that don't provide a fine sight picture. By your own reasoning, they are just as much of an impractical ripoff as a full length guide rod... :eek:

On the flipside, the practical benefit of the stubby 1911-style plug is pretty negligible. They make taking down the gun marginally quicker. And, that's about it. There are other tricks you can do with them, like sticking your finger near the muzzle of a loaded weapon to find out if it is loaded. If you plan on taking apart your gun in the middle of a gunfight, you need a better plan, not a different kind of guide rod thingy.

I use FLGRs sometimes, but that's because my 1911s are often 10mm guns, and in that particular circumstance I'm willing to do anything to get any theoretical advantage in function, no matter how itty bitty. But I do lots of stuff in 10mm guns I wouldn't do in a .45 gun... AFTEC extractors and EGW firing pin stops, for instance. My current .45 1911 I'm shooting has a short plug, and I've felt no urge to use anything else. But in my mind it has neither great benefits nor crushing disadvantages compared to most other options.

[BigG]

... has a short plug ...

Ahem. The correct term is GUIDE, iirc. the SPRING PLUG is the other end that hooks under the bushing on a std 5" 1911-type.

[Silent Bob]

I personally have no need or use for FLGRs, in fact I hate them. But I have heard the joke, and kind of agree with it, that it keeps novices from attempting an improperly-done pinch-check and blowing their fingers off!

[10-Ring]

I prefer the standard GI style guide rod. Much more simple than the FLGR & a tad easier to field strip.

[bogie]

If you plan on taking apart your gun in the middle of a gunfight, you need a better plan, not a different kind of guide rod thingy.

What was it - "If Plan A is taking .308 rounds to the vest, then Plan B had better be something?"

[PCRCCW]

Ok...I got a question. I like FLGR's (shoot me :neener: )

Tamara states that it keeps you from doing one handed slide cycling.....
The barrel interferes with this as much as the guide rod does...well, pretty close anyway.

IMO..if its done correctly and doesnt bind and cause drag, whats the harm in a FLGR.....it just isnt like JMB designed it? If thats the reason.....MIL SPEC guns ONLY for all of you 1911 die hards.......

Ill post my address and you can send me all of your Kimbers, Bears and Wilsons...Ill save you from those "other improvements" that arent MIL SPEC on your 1911's.......:what: :D

Shoot well

[sm]

It is written if you use Skateboard Tape you must remove FLGR and go to a stubby GI style. Its in the TFL archives...somewhere...;)

"But you can't use a paperclip to field strip your gun" I never seem to have a darn paperclip around.

I do know its easier to get mud out the recoil spring swishing around in a bucket w/o a FLGR. You had to be there I guess.

[Tamara]

IMO..if its done correctly and doesnt bind and cause drag, whats the harm in a FLGR

No, the correct question is: "What's the benefit?" ;)

[BigG]

No fair using logic, Tamara. :o

[Sean Smith]

2 weeks + later, and the best y'all can come up with is some pedantic semantic nonsense about short plugs vs short rods?

:neener:

[BigG]

I been outa circulation for a couple weeks, Sean, but I still dig it when you talk dirty! :neener:

[Sean Smith]

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/sadness.gif

[Tamara]

Well, so far, I've been convinced that they offer one ounce out towards the muzzle (I suppose I could also use a "monolith frame" or just a piece of lead screwed under the dust cover for the the same benefit) as well as two other advantages that were self-described as: subjective ... "feel" ... theoretical advantage

Heck, I'm sold. ;)

[TaxPhd]

BigG,

Nope, my 5" Kimber has bushing, and FLGR.



Scott

[Sean Smith]

Heck, I'm sold. ;)

Tamara: who was trying to make a sale? I may not be a master debater, but jeez, I started my post with:

The practical benefits of a FLGR are, at best, iffy.

...which for most people would be a most excellent hint that I'm not trying to convert the short recoil rod heathens to the shining truth of the long rod. ;)

Guess thats why I don't work in marketing. :neener:

If I was suggesting anything, it was the extravagant bashing of long guide rods is just about as silly as the extravagant magical claims that the makers of the part advertise.

[45auto]

Although I'm still debating whether to use one or not, it did seem to make one of my loose Colt's rattle less and it did change the ejection pattern a bit.
At least that's my impression. I don't get the occasional overhead ejections and all the brass ejects in a more similiar pattern.

If this is true:D , then it may provide for a more consistent slide/frame relationship and consequently, more consistent ejection.

Probably has no effect on a 1911 with a tight slide/frame fit.

[Tamara]

To borrow a phrase:

And did you know that you are making the mistake of taking my smart-assed remarks even pseudo-seriously? :D

;)

[WJR]

Chicks dig the long rod. Also, when you have a long rod, you do not have to be a master debater.

Sorry, I could not resist.

WJR

[Skunkabilly]

master debater

:scrutiny: :D

Seriuosly who thought of FLGRs? I can see how maybe a tungsten one would be good for IPSC Limited 10....

[Sean Smith]

Tamara,

If you can't figure out that my goofy response to your goofy response was goofy...

Master debater... shining truth about the long rod... man, tough crowd!

:evil:

[Futo Inu]

Tamara, gunfyter said:

"Ok, I too have a Kimber 5". Just for the sake of argument, why do away with the rod? What does a short rod do that the long one won't?"

So, the ADVANTAGES to you of switching from the long to the short are: Hmmmm (scratching head). C'mon, now, you don't REALLY think it's difficult to take down a FLGR gun? And do you REALLY engage in one-handed cycling? (if so, then maybe this is a reason)

The DISADVANTAGES are: 1. It cost you MONEY to buy the short one. 2. You potentially compromise that weight which you seem to agree might be an advantage, and is a far simpler method than attaching the piece of lead you mentioned. 3. It IS in fact more difficult to put the damn thing back together with a stubbie - the FLGR makes it easier.

So, on balance, it seems you should stick with "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". You are incorrect that the proper question is "What advantages do the FLGR have", since the status quo for you is FLGR, and you are justifying making a change. That would indeed be the proper question if the gun came with a stubbie.

[Coltdriver]

1400 rounds is enough to wear out any recoil spring on a 1911.

It will still function with a wore out spring but if you put a new spring on it you will notice the difference as the rate of "slam" of the slide will be reduced slightly with a new spring vs a wore out one.

On my first 1911 I shot so many rounds though it that it would cycle bird shot from CCI:D It was a great snake dispatcher.

I admit having installed a full lenght guide rod on my Colt Govt Enhanced but I do wonder about the validity of it. I don't think that the guide rod has any real effect on the accuracy. The added weight up front may reduce the muzzle flip a wee bit but I honestly can not tell.

You can probably pick up the original USGI issue spring and guide stub at a gun show for a few bucks.

[happyguy]

I asked about FLGR's on another forum (I was thinking about picking up an XSE) and the general response I got was fugetaboutit. If there is one in the weapon, fine. If not, fine. As long as the gun runs, what difference does it make?

As for sights, all of mine are those impractical non-tactical rabbit ear types. Heck, some of them don't even have white dots!

Regards,
Happyguy:D