Shooting open sights better than scope.


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.41 magnum man
September 11, 2007, 06:58 PM
Some of you might have seen some of my groups that I posted pictures of using open sights. I had some 3 inch groups at 90 yards. Well, I bought a Leupold 2x scope for my Ruger .41 magnum and sighted it in last week. Out to 50 yards I am shooting fine with a rest, but at 90 yards I am all over the place in a 8 or 10 inch circle. That is with a sandbag rest. Another thing I did was try to shoot off of shooting sticks with the scope, and I can't hold it still at all! But with the open sights I can shoot great. I even shot a squirrel at 30 yards last week just resting my gun on my atv. I think most of my problem is caused by the added weight from the scope and rings. Of course, I am going to shoot with what ever is the most accurate for me, but I was just surprised at how poor my shooting is with the scope.

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gravis86
September 11, 2007, 07:11 PM
Well, since you don't need that scope, can I have it?

g.willikers
September 11, 2007, 07:38 PM
The problem with using a scope seems to be caused by focusing on the dancing crosshairs instead of the target.
By focusing on the target instead of the scope, the crosshairs seem to find the target and steady up.
Don't know why this happens, but it seems to work.

MCgunner
September 11, 2007, 08:35 PM
Either that or you might try taking it off 10x. LOL Well, I shoot a 2x scope a LOT better than irons. I think concentration on the target is the key.

.41 magnum man
September 12, 2007, 09:28 AM
Gravis, check your mail today and see if the scope is in there.

I do wonderful out to 50 yards with a rest on the sandbags. But using any other object to steady off of is useless. Those cross hairs don't just dance around, they do the hip hop boogie woogie! I do great with a scope on my rifle. I have taken deer off hand out to near 100 yards. But it is easier to hold than a revolver. The more I think about it, it must be the added weight of the scope on my pistol that causes me problems. I can hold it much more steadier when just using the open sights. But I will concentrate on the old target concentration method more like you guys mentioned and see if I can get any better.

22-rimfire
September 12, 2007, 10:30 AM
I had the same problem shooting my Ruger SRH in 480 with a 2x Leupold scope on it. It was my first scoped handgun and I was not used to it at all.

I have found that you will be more accurate placing shots out past 50 yds with the scope, but you have to take your shots quickly. I believe you have the same wobble with open sights, you just don't realize it at long longer ranges. Pull up your 41 revolver and sight quickly through the scope.... are you more or less "on" immediately. If not practice. You just need to get used to the scope. Don't use the handgun scope to "scope" the animal or target like a rifle; line it up and shoot!

I carry a monopod hunting in the woods with the SRH. I pretty much will not take a shot past 40-50 yds unless I have a rest. There is usually time and that is why I chose the monopod. Shooting sticks are too slow and clumsy. I adjust the monopod to the height that I need when walking, sitting or standing hunting. In a tree stand, I hang it on a branch or nail and plan out a rest in advance in various shooting directions. I am pretty useless on followup shots on a running deer, but so far I have not had one run far. My only handgun buck was shot prior to buying the monopod (Polecat Expedition model) and I had shooting sticks with me. I shot with the gun resting on my knees as I was sitting on a big rock.

Love those 41 magnums. Sometimes I wonder why I chose to use the SRH for hunting over the 41 mags. The answer lies in mounting a scope as the Model 57's I own are not drilled for a scope and I didn't want to have one drilled. The Model 57 Mountain Gun is my sidearm on the rare ocasions that I carry a rifle too. The SRH is just too dang heavy to carry both. I tried that combination.... always grabbed the rifle first, so I now leave the rifle at home.

I have the new Blackhawk in 41 mag that I have not shot yet. Been trying to get the feel for it since I am mostly a double action shooter to this point.

MCgunner
September 12, 2007, 11:05 AM
I have found that you will be more accurate placing shots out past 50 yds with the scope, but you have to take your shots quickly. I believe you have the same wobble with open sights, you just don't realize it at long longer ranges.

Yep, you are wobblin' just as much with the irons, just not as obvious as with a little magnification. I took a spike last season at a full 90 yards with my contender and 2x scope. I've shot 200 yard groups off sandbags with that gun at 3". It can be mastered even by a duffer like me. :D My eyes have never been that great and as I age, irons seem to be less and less effective for me.

Walkalong
September 12, 2007, 01:50 PM
Yep, you are wobblin' just as much with the irons, just not as obvious as with a little magnification

That's a fact, and the wobble makes us nervous and we wobble some more, and it makes us more nervous and.......

When we could not see the small movement in the open sights we were blissfully ignorant, confident, and steady. :D

.41 magnum man
September 12, 2007, 06:10 PM
Thanks for the encouragement and good advice, guys. I'll keep working at it.

There is something to say for being blissfully ignorant on some things!

bigmike45
September 13, 2007, 08:29 AM
.41 Magnum Man,

I have been hunting with my stainless Redhawk in .41mag, and with a 2X Leupold EER Handgun Scope for over 20 years. I had the same problems when I first mounted it. There was an older guy, at the range, watching my frustration build, when he offered assistance. He said, "Son, if you dont have the scope adjusted to gain its best accuracy at 25 yards, you have lost the battle". He also said "However far off you are at 25 yards will be increased 4 times at 100 yards", and he was correct. At first I was shooting 2" groups at 25 yards, which ended up being about 8"-9" off at 100 yards. When I finally, through practice, handload development and patience, was able to get it to shoot literally, a hole in a hole, at 25 yards, the 100 yard group became a cloverleaf. Just remember, even with that great scope on top of your gun, the revolver, in most cases, is not a target weapon. 8-10" is about the size of a standard pie plate and if you can keep your shots within that pie plate, it is considered, by most handgun hunters, to be sufficient. To me, that spread, is not sufficient, if for no other reason than the ethicality of taking game with a handgun. I have been taking Texas whitetails, mule deer and even a book Fallow Deer with that same Ruger 41mag. and have yet to loose any game because of a bad shot. Hope this helps!!

Big Mike

22-rimfire
September 13, 2007, 12:52 PM
Sage advice.

I don't claim to be a great shot at 100 yds with a revolver. But it is fun trying, frustrating too. I do most of my shooting at 25 and 50 yds with the scope. The scope adds to the precision of your aiming and you need to take advantage of that at the shorter ranges too. My bullet spreads open up after 50 yds and it is precisely because of what the gentleman said. No real surprise, but it is hard to shoot a handgun accurately, even from the bench, at 100 yds. Separates the men from the boys! The 41 mag is a very good shooting gun. I just have to get out and shoot MY new 41 mag blackhawk and it does not look favorable for the next couple of weeks due to work commitments out of town.

The other good part is you can easily see your holes at 25 yds with a pair of binoculars and you don't have to walk up and check your targets as often. I just put up targets with a number of aiming points.

HammerBite
September 13, 2007, 02:14 PM
22-rimfire and a couple of others got it right; the scope makes your natural wobble much more apparent and your mind says "oh sh*t" and struggles to narrow the wobble and release the shot at just the right time, thereby making things worse. You need to fight this urge and try to relax and just concentrate on the target and the trigger squeeze. You don't want to narrow the wobble, you want to will your hand to settle down and do nothing but sit there, as if it was dead; then the wobble will take care of itself.

The only advantage a scope gives to a shooter is better vision. That can be a double-edged sword.

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