[Detritus]

after some in depth discussion with my wife it has been decided that the next gun purchase to be made will either be a Springfield "Loaded" (specificly the parkerized version model #PX9109LP), or a RIA Tactical.

the question that has come up is whether or not the SA is even worth considering in comparison to the Rock. more to the point, IS there, taking into account the aprox $80 for the up grade to trijicon night sights on the SA, nearly $300 worth of value in the Springfeild "loaded" over the RIA?(price comparison based on RIA listing at Sarco and the davison's listing for the SA "Loaded"

other than the RIA lacking night sights is there any thing that the Springfield has that the Rock doesn't?

a few bits of info that may help

Gun will start as a purely range gun, once i feel proficient enough/comfortable enough with the gun i'll take a CHL class and this gun will be the most likely canidate for carry when i CAN carry (most times when i wind up going to on trips in to Houston etc too many of the places i wind up going to are not legal to carry in to even bother).
I do not at this time see in real huge need for the Night sights. i see them as a having utility on a carry gun only. and the above mentioned fact that even after i get my CHL I most likely will rarely be able to carry, means that their preceived utility to ME is reduced
the MSH of either pistol would be on the short list for replacement, as mentioned i prefer Arched w/ lanyard loop, Also as i understand it i'd have to replace the "innards" if i did this with the SA due to the changes made for the ILS lock
most likely any mods made to this gun will be Done by me.
the gun may at some point see use in the local action pistol matches
Oh and in full truth if i get the RIA, i'm VERY likely to buy the SA loaded at a later date and keep the Rock as a "project gun"


Anyway i'm kinda torn down the middle, the Springfield "loaded' is just about exactly where i want a 1911 to be, but for $300 i could probably make the RIA pretty dang close and still have ammo money left.

So what do you guys think?

Any and all oppinions and information is welcome and appreciated.
thank you.

[RRTX]

Given the choice, definitely Springfield (that is actually the exact model I carry.) Everything about Springfield is higher quality compared to any RIA I've ever handled, plus SA has some of the best customer service in the industry should you have any problems with it.

ETA: My PX9109L has 2k plus rounds through it with zero malfunctions.

[Ala Dan]

I agree on the Springfield. Great gun, excellent customer service~! ;):D

[gaudio5]

i actualy like both my rock and springer they both shoot 100% i just got done building my own custom 1911 and it runs great too

[Prof. A. Wickwire]

Detritus,

I purchased both a Springfield (the GI Model) and a Rock Island Tactical. For about a year the Springfield was my carry gun, until I bought the Tactical.

Ever since then, when I carry, the Tactical comes with me. The only change I made was to swap out the full length guide rod and plug for GI standard. Just makes clearance drills easier.

For my $0.02, go with the RIA, you will never be sorry you made that decision.

Rock Island Armory also has great service. Take a look at the Armscor/Rock Island Forum over at M1911 Forums (http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=17). The Rock Island Rep posts over there under the name of ArmscorBA and will take care of any problems.

Good luck and good shooting.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

[citizen510]

I carry my Rock Island every day. I have had no failures in over 1800 rounds. I did upgrade the sights and grips for a buck fifty. I trust this gun with my life. And I can still afford ammo. Get the Rock. Don't believe the SA hype.

[the pistolero]

Don't believe the SA hype.
I wouldn't call it "hype." I'd call it a "well-deserved reputation for quality," though I fully understand some beg to differ. I can't speak for RIA, but from my experience, Springfield Armory makes great weapons and stands behind them.

[aji]

Did a lot of research on SA 9109 before I bought it almost 2 years ago. Excellent decision. I have not been disappointed.

[surjimmy]

Springfield

[Euclidean]

I'm not a big 1911 guy but the PX9109L I have is just great. Were I buying new, I'd get the SA if I could afford it.

[Linkinlog]

Just because it costs less doesn't mean it is cheap.

I love my tactical. I could have bought a loaded or other 1911, but $ for $ the tactical is the best deal.

RIA also makes a Match 1911 that is hand fitted. I believe they run about $600.

I vote to buy the tactical or match and spend the rest on ammo.

[Snowdog]

Man, am I ever glad I bought the RIA back when they were still $279 NIB from SOG. I was like a kid on Christmas when I got that puppy home and gave it a once-over. It was very impressive for the price. Sure, I had to chuck those silly slick wood grip it came with, but decent double diamond walnut grips are easy enough to acquire.
All but 300 or so of the 2000 rounds I've put through my RIA have been either Masterblaster 200gr RNFP or Magnus 200gr SWC and not a hiccup yet.

I can't say the same for my Kimber. My first series Kimber Classic Custom will easily hold its own with any factory JHP, but it absolutely hates SWCs. In the Kimber's defense, it is a very nice looking 1911. ;)

If you can still find the RIA for a fair price, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find yourself disappointed with the purchase.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p3155c70276c2a8a0dcf4fa7560bb668d/e8380ad1.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p5f30041b4a9f7f4d59c5533189c812cb/e837f816.jpg

[M1 Shooter]

Do yourself a favor and buy a Colt, everything else is just a copy! ;):D

However, of the two you mentioned, I'd go with the Springfield, Inc.

[Mastiff4570]

it interesting that you bring that up i can't decide between the two either the RIA seem nice and i actually was looking tat hte springfield GI45

[Detritus]

Do yourself a favor and buy a Colt, everything else is just a copy!

I wondered how long this would take....

NO sorry i don't buy guns for the rollmark, nor cars for the hood ornament.
and Colt wants a WHOLE heck of a lot of cabbage for that rollmark.

to illistrate
pricing as listed on davidsons

Colt M1991A1 (sights etc similar to SA Mil-spec) $750

SA Mil-spec $576

Springfield Loaded (BUNCH of nice upgrades) $774

I won't pay nearly $200 to have a prancing pony and the word "Colt" on a gun, esp not when for $25 more i can have almost every upgrade i have ever wanted in a 1911.

and come right down to it that's the real reason I started this thread. to determine if, in this case ie SA "loaded" Vs RIA "Tactical", the Springfield loaded is a case of "buying the rollmark". or if there is some real, immediate, and tangible benefit to getting the Springfield.

[M1 Shooter]

Geez, don't get your panties all in a bunch! It was said somewhat jokingly, hence the little smileys I put afterwards.

For the record, I do prefer Colt's, and not just for the "roll mark", but because I believe them to be better than the others. I've owned Springfield's, Kimber's, and an RIA. IMO, the Colt's are made better, with better materials(the least amount of MIM for example), and my Colt's have been completely reliable right out of the box. All the other brand 1911's I've had had issues, with Kimber being the worst.

As far as prices, I've seen Colt XSE's, similar to SAI's "Loaded" series, selling for $800-$850, not $200 dollars more than the SAI, and I paid $675 for my NRM 1991 Commander. Yes that's more than the SAI GI, but it's a much nicer pistol, the SA GI is not even in the same class, IMO.

However, as I said in my earlier post, out of the two you listed, go with the SA, it is a better pistol than the RIA. At least that's my experience, take it for what it's worth.

And...chill out a little. ;)

[aguyindallas]

Springfield all day long.

[Calhoun]

I haven't shot the Springer, but I do have an RIA Tactical and it's very nice. It shoots very well and has a very tight fit. And you can buy a ton of ammo for the price difference.

Good luck.

[wally]

Get the RIA and have money left to buy ammo for it!

I've got over 11000 rounds thrugh my oldest RIA.

--wally.

[Detritus]

Geez, don't get your panties all in a bunch!

sorry, didn't really mean to come accross so strongly... :uhoh:

dealt with too many completely unrepentant "brand X" snobs (as in the type that will iterally say "Buy [Brand X] all others aren't worth the drive to the store, I don't care what you say!") over the years. Being the guy in the gun club that prefers Savage when everyone else he runs into is shooting Remingtons (or customs built on 700 actions) can be a REAL pain sometimes.

i really should not have taken that frastation out on you. again sorry.

[Fumbler]

i really should not have taken that frastation out on you. again sorry.
Don't apologize. He can't transmit his sarcasm over the internet and everyone runs into internet snobs all the time.

I hate the short replies that give no sort of reason for the choice.
If you don't explain why you think X product is better than Y product then you may as well not reply because any little inexperienced mall ninja can regurgitate crap he heard someone else say.

Back to the subject...
The thread timing is funny. I had my RIA Tactical come into the shop today and will pick it up as soon as my pistol buying permit comes through.
It will be $445 OTD ($65 over dealer cost). Not the best price on a RIA Tactical, but not bad either. SA mil-specs are $600 and Loadeds go for ~$750-800 locally. Heck, the shops around here charge $650 for the dang Taurus 1911s.

I could have spent more money on a Springfield, but I decided to take a chance on the RIA. I wanted to get my hands on a good cheap 1911 before the prices skyrocket (remember the Norincos?). I like to tinker with guns anyway, so if it isn't reliable or accurate I will make it work with a little elbow grease. Home done melting, action and trigger polishing, front strap checkering, and a refinish job is planned for the RIA in the future too.

I've shot Kimber Custom IIs, S&Ws (which I think is a pretty darn nice 1911), and a SA Loaded. I'll let you know how the RIA stacks up in a few days.

[45auto]

I don't know the answer, but the real difference is not only reliability, but durability. Meaning, if this is a gun that will see 10,000, 20,000, 50,000+ rounds...which gun will hold up? How many parts will break, does it need to be rebuilt sooner, etc, etc.

If someone is buying a 1911 that might only see 5,000 rounds in it's "lifetime", then it's "easier" to make a choice IMHO.

I'm not saying the RIA can't, simply I'm not reading about any high round count RIAs yet...doesn't mean there aren't any!

[M1 Shooter]

Detritus said

sorry, didn't really mean to come accross so strongly...

dealt with too many completely unrepentant "brand X" snobs (as in the type that will iterally say "Buy [Brand X] all others aren't worth the drive to the store, I don't care what you say!") over the years. Being the guy in the gun club that prefers Savage when everyone else he runs into is shooting Remingtons (or customs built on 700 actions) can be a REAL pain sometimes.

i really should not have taken that frastation out on you. again sorry.


Hey, no problem, I understand exactly where your coming from (I'm a Savage fan as well).
I guess I do come across as a Colt snob, but I didn't mean to, I'm sorry for that. It's just that my experience with other 1911's has led me to Colt's and they have been the best 1911's I've ever owned. I avoided them for a long time for the same reasons you mentioned plus a few others. Then I bought one, WOW. I have seen the light, so to speak.

However, the two Springfield's I had, a GI and a SS "Loaded", were good pistols after they were tweaked and broken in a bit. They both had some feed issues when I first got them, but it was a simple fix, and they worked just fine after that. The RIA I had was an OK pistol, I just wasn't impressed with the fit and finish, and it too needed some tweaking to get it 100% reliable. I didn't have the Tactical model though, so maybe they're better.

So, once again, based on my admittedly limited experience, go with the Springfield. In fact, if I couldn't have my Colt's, Springfield 1911's would be my pick, and I can't give them any higher praise than that.

Good luck with your choice, and most of all, have fun and be safe. :)

[AndyC]

Same "problem" here - I was really looking forward to buying a Springfield Loaded, but I've been following the RIA for a while now. For now, I can only have one of them (I have an FAL to feed too, and .308's pricey); I used to own a Norinco 1911 and people don't like it much when you out-shoot them with an inexpensive firearm :D

[Fumbler]

Hey, no problem, I understand exactly where your coming from (I'm a Savage fan as well).
I guess I do come across as a Colt snob, but I didn't mean to, I'm sorry for that. It's just that my experience with other 1911's has led me to Colt's and they have been the best 1911's I've ever owned. I avoided them for a long time for the same reasons you mentioned plus a few others. Then I bought one, WOW. I have seen the light, so to speak.

However, the two Springfield's I had, a GI and a SS "Loaded", were good pistols after they were tweaked and broken in a bit. They both had some feed issues when I first got them, but it was a simple fix, and they worked just fine after that. The RIA I had was an OK pistol, I just wasn't impressed with the fit and finish, and it too needed some tweaking to get it 100% reliable. I didn't have the Tactical model though, so maybe they're better.

So, once again, based on my admittedly limited experience, go with the Springfield. In fact, if I couldn't have my Colt's, Springfield 1911's would be my pick, and I can't give them any higher praise than that.

Good luck with your choice, and most of all, have fun and be safe.

Now that's a good useful reply :)

What kind of tweaking did you have to do to the SAs and RIA? Throat polishing?

[M1 Shooter]

What kind of tweaking did you have to do to the SAs and RIA? Throat polishing?

Yes, I had to polish the throats, and the RIA needed to have the extractor tuned up a bit. After I did that, they ran 100% with everything I fed them.

[Detritus]

I'm not saying the RIA can't, simply I'm not reading about any high round count RIAs yet...doesn't mean there aren't any!

there area few around, some of the folks over at 1911Forum (http://forums.1911forum.com/) have them, also consider that Charles Daly and at least some High Standard 1911s are also built by armscor using the same Frame, Slide, and (i'm willing to bet) model appropriate small parts.

Lastly, even though it's a model that hasn't really had enough time on the market for there to be "high round count" examples, the STI Spartan is build on Armscor frame/side sets.

[Fumbler]

I picked up my RIA 1911 Tactical and took it to the range this weekend.

I'm impressed by the quality. I'd say overall fit and finish are 95% of a SA.

There are a few machining marks. The muzzle end of the slide shows a few around the recoil spring cover. I did find a few small metal shaving inside the slide and grip safety area that were left over from the machining.
The beavertail safety isn't perfectly flush on the underside where it pivots.
The gun just barely rattles. My Sig 228 rattles more. I'm no expert shot, but I can shoot it as accurately as my Sig and GP-100.
The finish is a nice parkerized look. More of a dark grey than black. Out of the box, the finish was worn off the corner of the frame behind the right side of the safety. I attribute that to poor handling during assembly.
The grips are some foreign hardwood. I think they're a little too fat and will probably swap them out. They are slick too. Out of the box there were a few wood fibers that didn't get cut cleanly out of the mag latch cutout. That took about 1 minute to clean up with a pocket knife.

The gun truely is impressive when you consider the cost.
I had two hiccups. Once when my friend disengaged the slide catch and the round didn't fully chamber. The other time it did the same thing while he shot it. It did not take much force to push it into battery.
I think it's a magazine problem. The gun came with one Novak's 8 round mag. It is very difficult to push a round out with your thumb because the case catches near the rear of the feed lips. So, I think the slide spends all its energy pushing a round out and doesn't have enough left to push it into battery. Swapping the mags or a little filing may fix that.

Other than that, it worked well for the 150 rounds I shot.
The safety engages and disengages with a good snap, the slide catch works, the Novak's style sights are nice.

I'm just getting started. Time will tell how durable and reliable it really is.
However, at $445 out the door it's one hell of a deal.
I wouldn't buy any other 1911 if I had the money.
I just wish I could get it in stainless...

[mrcpu]

Get the RIA. Replaced the spring with a 17.5lb wolff, and haven't looked back since.

[Black Majik]

Easily the Springfield. All things considered, the main reason would be the forged slide and frame.

[10-Ring]

Go w/ the Springer! ;)

[crankshop1000]

I have a 1911A1 rock and just bought a Springfield hi-cap 1911 loaded. Both are Parkerized finish and appear to be quite alike in fit and finish. The rock does have a forged slide (actually a extrusion process that is very durable. The Rock is also CNC machined. Either the Rock or Springer will be a fine choice.Or you could get both...

My RIA 1911A1 with stainless beavertail and Crimson Trace grips
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff90/crankshop1000/IM002255.jpg

My Springfield PX9707L high cap
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff90/crankshop1000/IM002253.jpg

I like the parkerized models.Chuck.

[Cocked & Locked]

That's a hard decision to make...Springfield -vs- RIA. I once had that problem and decided on shiny Super .38 ones of both brands :cool:

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL523/3082611/9381895/251827366.jpg

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL523/3082611/9381895/251827370.jpg

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL523/3082611/9381895/193409822.jpg

Then to confirm my decision, I decided I needed one more of each. I found another nickled RIA, but can't find another Springfield one. :(

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL523/3082611/9381895/261865253.jpg

[Desert 45 Rat]

Where did you find those beauties?

[AndyC]

Yaaaargh, shiny! :eek:

Then again - coulda been worse, coulda been a pair of Blocks ;)

Although I don't like shiny guns, they do look pretty when paired in that black-lined case - very nice indeed.

[jaydee1156]

Get both!

[Detritus]

Get both!

I will, the question was which to get first :D;)

[dogngun]

I recently bought an Armscor-made 1911 compact pistol, my 3rd Armscor -made 1911 over the last 8 years. (Armscor makes RIA and Charles Daly 1911's). I liked it so much, I bought another full size Daly 1911 yesterday.
I have NEVER had any problems with any RIA/Charles Daly/Armscor 1911 pistol. I have used them as carry pistols in the past, and carry my Compact right now. I will carry the full size as soon as I have run some rounds thgrough it (it was bought used).
They are great 1911 pistols.
Armscor has excellent customer service and very high quality standards.
FWIW, I bought my first 1911 in 1972, a Remington Rand.
Mark

[1911 guy]

I've got and enjoy both, but get the Springfield. Here's why.

Springfield has the highest quality frame and slide one the market today, they are drilled and milled square and the barrels are accurate. Everything else is gravy, especially if you ever want to swap/upgrade parts. You'll really appreciate the frame being square, then. My G.I. is being re-built into a carry gun and will retire my current when it comes home. Utterly reliable, after swapping out the questionable factory recoil spring. A whopping $7.

My Armscorp pistol is my daily carry gun right now. It's beat up, finish worn and has some pretty bad scratches, but it runs. It runs to the tune of about 10,000 rounds so far and I had my first failure this past spring. Well, first non-magazine related failure. I had fits for the first couple weeks of ownership finding mags that tripped the slide stop reliably. Oddly, CMC shooting stars work well, as well as Colt and Mec-Gar.