[romeo212000]

I was at Bass Pro the other day looking at their guns on sale (which are still usually higher than the regular prices of my local guys) and saw a remington spi453 auto shotgun for around $350.00. I asked to look at it, noticed it was a little bulky but seemed to be pretty well made, and able to take a beating. I noticed that it was made by a company named Baikal. After doing some research I found they are a russian gunmaker who has been making guns for years. I was wondering if you guys had any knowledge or experience with these.

[MCgunner]

Not with the auto, but I can attest that the doubles are well made and regulated, just not adorned with frills. They're hard working guns, though. I've heard a lot of positive about the 453 and have thought of getting one, but don't really feel the need all that much.

[ArmedBear]

We got one as a rental at the range where I shoot shotguns.

It does send lead downrange.

However, it is pretty heavy, especially for an aluminum receiver. It also shaves chunks of metal from the bottom of its ejection port when you shoot it. Significant chunks. I wouldn't buy one after seeing that.

I'd look at the Mossberg 930 (or 935, if you're REALLY looking for a 3.5" gun). Balances well, well-built in the USA, inexpensive, reliable by all reports. Same price range as the 453, but IMO the Mossberg is a gun I'd much rather have.:)

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=10&section=products

http://www.mossberg.com/images/products/930/85110.jpg

[Gordon]

Guess American craftsman want too much(or the corporate bean counters think the sucker consumers will buy anything that they can make more profit on :cuss:) to make a quality gun like an 1100, or even a (shudder) 1187:fire:

[ArmedBear]

I dunno. If Mossberg can produce a Made in USA shotgun for $450 retail in Walnut, Remington should be able to, as well.

If you ask me, it looks like Remington has given up on building affordable autoloaders, whereas Mossberg has taken the ball and run with it. (Remington has definitely given up on building O/Us. Interesting, given that their 3200 still commands a high price, old and used. The bean counters must have broken their calculators.)

I like the 105CTi. Liked it the first time I shot it. But at that price?

I don't have a pressing need for another 12 Gauge autoloader. When I do, the 930 is on the short list. I can buy 2 for the price of competing guns.

If I want to spend too much to customize and tweak a gun for the range, the 1100 and 39X have that market nearly sewn up, just because there are so many of the guns and people make parts for that reason. But as an off-the-shelf gun, that Mossy is in its own class.

[klcmschlesinger]

I just got my SPR453 home a couple of days ago. Shot a few shells but haven't put it through its paces yet. I have done extensive research on this gun even asking many people in Europe (counterparts at my company) if they know anything about them. Everything tells me they are a pretty popular gun in Europe with a solid reputation for being a workhorse but not being pretty. One thing I have been told several times is to follow the owners manual on the gas regulation system with this gun. It states to shoot approx 100 heavy steel shot shells before shooting lead or any light loads. It somehow breaks in the gas system to accomodate all loads after break in. My European counterparts have said that if you follow these directions, you won't be dissapointed. So I will follow up after I get some time this duck and goose season with it.
FYI, I got mine for $64 dollars because Bass Pro had a deal where if you drive a Toyota Tundra and fill out a questionaire you get a $15 gift card. I did it 8 times and a few friends did it a few times for me. What a deal!!!

[MCgunner]

If I get another autochucker, it'll be specifically for waterfowl and likely be a 935 Mossberg. I'll mostly shoot 3", though, so I might get a 930 instead, but I have a good 2 3/4" gas gun, don't have the need for another. I'd also like to get it in camo. I really prefer the tang safety on the Mossy. As I understand it, the 935 will shoot 3" or 3.5". I don't currently own a 3.5" gun. If I did wanna shoot 3.5", be good for my shoulder to shoot it in a gas gun.

The 453 has the advantage of shooting 2 3/4 to 3.5", but I haven't seen one in camo and, of course, there's the crossbolt safety.

[throdgrain]

As far as the Baikals go, we have them in over/under as loan guns at our clay pigeon range. They are bloody ugly no frills guns that kick like a mule if you're used to a semi-auto, but are so strong if you're out on a farm with one it can be used for vermin control and then hammering fence posts in with no ill effects :)

They are a bit like the AK47 of the shotgun world.

[MCgunner]

LOL, well, mine's a little side by side 20 gauge. It don't kick too bad and it shoots SWEET! However, it does sorta give one a headache to sit there when the birds ain't flyin' and just look at it. I don't know if they make side by sides any uglier. It'd help to have decent wood with decent checkering and a decent finish, I guess. But, at least I won't get too worried about actually USING the gun. LOL I sure didn't buy it for looks, which is a good thing I reckon.

[ArmedBear]

WRT the safety, I wouldn't want to shoot a gun that takes chunks out of its receiver when you fire it, no matter what safety it had.:)

The 935 is reputed to shoot heavy field 2 3/4" shells just fine. If you use 1 1/8 oz. going 1290, I don't think it'll have any trouble.

[MD_Willington]

They are a bit like the AK47 of the shotgun world.


The Saiga's are the Kalashnikov of the shotgun world...

[ArmedBear]

Do they regulate the things well, now?

I've known people who had trouble with Baikal doubles, pre-Remington. And I've heard that the new ones do shoot straight.

What they need to do is have the Russians build and assemble the metal parts, then ship them to Turkey to have them finished and stocked. The end result could be relatively cheap, bulletproof, and pretty.

As it stands, though, I'd take an ugly gun that's a pretty shooter, and reliable, over a pretty gun that falls apart inside, any day of the week!

[MCgunner]

Do they regulate the things well, now?

I've known people who had trouble with Baikal doubles, pre-Remington. And I've heard that the new ones do shoot straight.



Yeah, mine is regulated perfectly to 40 yards. It overlaps out at 50 and beyond a little, limits any slug shooting to shorter ranges, but not atypical of any side by side. I was making some 40+ shots with it on doves couple of weekends ago and impressing myself. :D With Winchester AA, that full choke really tosses a tight pattern. It's kinda usless inside 35 yards, have to be spot on to hit with it. The IC got most of the work. Been thinking maybe IC/mod would be a better combination, actually. Other than playing with the chokes a bit, the gun shoots really sweet.

[romeo212000]

Anybody else seen or heard anything about the action taking chunks out of the receiver, or this just a one time freak thing? Shooting a hundred rounds of 1 1/4oz steel shot to break it in can get expensive fast. You could use that money to buy a nicer gun, the way the cost of loads are these days couldnt you?

[klcmschlesinger]

I am going to use mine for duck and goose so my first 100 rounds will be shooting at waterfowl. No waste of money for me. Also, I bought 100 rounds of duck loads (#2's 1 1/4 oz) from wal mart last year for $36 after hunting season was over. I could just shoot those, break it in, and that would not put me closer to any other gun that would be "better". Actually I don't even know how good mine is yet, I have only shot a handful of loads through it. Again, I will let everyone know how it does later after I get some time in the blind with it.

[skinewmexico]

Baikal was obviously enough of a threat that Remington bought them.

[Gordon]

Don't get me wrong, I like Baikal products and have been using them since they were snuck in from Canada in the 70s. My beef is seeing another major US manufacturer (read employer) off shoring their production . So the soon to be chicken pluckers (well no, those are illeagal Mexican jobs) er 'service workers' are supposed to consume their foreign produced products! Something is wrong in this equation and IMHO we have to do what we can by going to the US produced alternatives (unless they get too trashy)to hold off 'The New World Order'. Rant off.

[Gordon]

Don't get me wrong, I like Baikal products and have been using them since they were snuck in from Canada in the 70s. My beef is seeing another major US manufacturer (read employer) off shoring their production . So the soon to be chicken pluckers (well no, those are illeagal Mexican jobs) er 'service workers' are supposed to consume their foreign produced products! Something is wrong in this equation and IMHO we have to do what we can by going to the US produced alternatives (unless they get too trashy)to hold off 'The New World Order'. Rant off.

[romeo212000]

I am considering buying a Stoeger M2000 for about the same price anyways $369.99. Its not exactly a Benelli or a berretta but it uses the same system and I have heard good things about it. It seems like the only people who bad mouth them are the people who had to go out and buy a $1500.00 Benelli. Maybe they are mad at people for spening 1/4 of what they did and getting basically the same system. Obviously some of the parts may be aluminum instead of steel, and there is no recoil reduction system. But geez is that really woth an additional $1100.00. I can buy a recoil pad for a whole lot less. I would love to have one of the top of the line guns one day, but until I can afford it, I bet the stoeger serves me just fine.

[klcmschlesinger]

I have read great things about the Stoeger, especially of late. Good luck and let us know how it runs. I have concidered on myself several times and may still get one for light loads, dove, etc. Been bouncing around some O/U's but a nice auto for dove would be nice.

[evbutler462]

The newly designed Stoeger 2000 is my favorite gun now. Make sure it has the red bead front sight and the elevated rib just forward of the recever. The original model had a white bead front sight and a low vent rib.

There is a lot of gun for the money. I had one of the original Stoegers and it did not fit me and the quality was inferior to the new edition.

Now that Stoeger has this model fine tuned, it is one of the better bargains out there. Fits great, but: Add a Limbsaver #10008. You will have a poor man's Benelli for 1/3 the money of the price. The new edition is very close to the Franchi I-12 and $300.00 cheaper. It resembles the Benelli Montfeltro in looks and the action is not so much different. The recoil spring is in the same place as the I-12, around the magazine tube. The Monte's recoil spring is in the stock.

If you go shopping for a Stoeger, be sure that the front sight is the high viz red and the rib is slightly higher at the receiver. This is how to tell the new edition from the original. There is a world of difference in them fit, quality, etc.

My dealer tells me that he hasn't had to return any of the new designs to the warranty center. With the old design, it was a frequent occurance. It will take a while for Stoeger to outlive the bad reputation of those original models that slipped through QC. Some of those original designs are still on the shelves and some dealers are selling them cheap to get them gone.

Mine has digested everything I have fed it, down to 7/8 oz. However, I would not have one without a Limbsaver. The recoil is typical inertia driven. The Limbsaver tames the beast.

[ArmedBear]

Shooting a hundred rounds of 1 1/4oz steel shot to break it in can get expensive fast. You could use that money to buy a nicer gun, the way the cost of loads are these days couldnt you?

My thoughts exactly, but I'm not a frequent waterfowl hunter, either. That's why I object to heavy guns. When you go quail hunting in rough, rocky, steep high-desert terrain, every extra ounce feels like a pound after an hour, and when the birds flush, you want a quick gun. For pass-shooting geese, I suppose an 8 1/4 pound gun would work BETTER, not worse. So it all depends...

Seriously, though, check out the Mossberg 930. Nice gun, for a nice price, US-made, and it feels a lot better to me than the Russkie clunker being discussed here.

WRT the chunks, I have only had experience with that one example of the gun. Maybe it's the only one with the problem. For what it's worth, the Browning Gold is known for something similar, though not as extreme, and people still love it. I still think that the 930 is worth a good, long look. I've been impressed. Not all my guns are American-made (try to find an American trap single for a "regular guy" price, for example), but if there's a great US-made option, that's a plus for me.

[Sound Dude]

I own two of the Remington branded Baikals - an SPR310 O/U in 28ga and the aforementioned SPR453. I really like my SPR453. It's a little heavier than my Beretta 391, but not grossly so. Bass Pro had 'em on sale and I couldn't resist. I wanted a semi-auto I could tramp in any kind of muck and not have to worry about it, and that's what I have. As others have stated, run 100 rounds of a heavy load through it to break it in. I have no empirical evidence to suggest that if you didn't your gun wouldn't work, but what the hey.
I was trying to decide between the Stoeger 2000 and the SPR 453 as my "beater" shotgun, and the SPR453 won out. Built like a tank and the price is right. Bought mine at Bass Pro when they had them on special for $340.

[SDC]

Baikal is actually the name for the "export" arm of the Izhevsk armory (now known as "Izhmash"; http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml

[MCgunner]

100 rounds of steel? Hell, I don't know if my Mossberg 500 has ever fired anything, BUT steel. All I do is hunt ducks and geese with it and it's got a steady diet of 3" steel or heavy shot. I use heavy shot on geese anymore. If I got a 453, it'd be for waterfowl. I do a lot of duck hunting, it being cheap and plentiful down here, not to mention excellent hunting.

Yeah, I bought up some ammo when Wallyworld had 'em on sale after last season. Normal price ain't, but 10 bucks a box, though. You can pay that much for some lead loads, Remington nitro pheasant for instance. I shoot 5.50 or so a box Winchester AA at doves and fire a lot more rounds than I do for a typical 6 bird limit on ducks.

[MCgunner]

Now THIS is funky! I doubt it scares Harley Davidson or the Japanese too much for market share. LOL

http://www.izhmoto.ru/img/1146952262/1146952290.jpg

[Stover954rr]

I own 2 baikals (one "remington", one pre remington) They both shoot awesome, and I have had no problems with any of them. I have out shot benelli's on a regular basis. It comes down to the shooter. Both guns have a ton of Grouse kills and work like a charm. I highly recommend them for people with low budgets!