California Gun Control - a smashing success


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The-Fly
September 12, 2007, 12:27 PM
http://www.ktvu.com/news/14095215/detail.html

RICHMOND, Calif. -- An outbreak of deadly violence in the San Francisco Bay Area stretched from Richmond to San Jose overnight as a rash of shootings left seven dead and at least eight people wounded.

The worst violent occurred in Richmond where three were killed and five were wounded in a wave of violence that swept over several Richmond neighborhoods, according to police Lt. Mark Gagan.

Two of the shootings occurred within 10-minutes of each other at around 8 p.m., Gagan said.

Meanwhile, two people were killed Tuesday night in a triple shooting in San Jose and two men were found dead in an Oakland double homicide.

The first Richmond shooting happened around 8:10 p.m. at First Street and Macdonald Avenue in the Iron Triangle neighborhood. Two people were shot, one of them killed, Gagan said.

Ten minutes later in South Richmond, four people suffered gunshot wounds at 37th Street and Wall Avenue. It is not immediately known if any of those victims died in the shootings.

Earlier at around 3 p.m., 21-year-old Deondra Holden of Richmond was shot dead behind the wheel of a sports utility vehicle near the intersection of Richmond Parkway and Hensley Avenue in Central Richmond, according to police.

Officers responding to reports of a shooting in the area of Canal Boulevard and Ohio Avenue found Holden slumped in a SUV with bullet wounds to his upper body. He was pronounced dead at the scene, police said.

The final shooting occurred earlier Tuesday morning at around 9:45 a.m. in the 300 block of Willard Avenue. One person suffered gunshot wounds but survived, Gagan said.

It is unknown if any of the shootings were related. No arrests have been made and investigations were ongoing.

In San Jose, authorities were investigating a Tuesday evening shooting that claimed the lives of two people and sent another victim to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries, according to San Jose police Sgt. Nick Muyo.

Police responded to reports of gunshots in the 1900 block of Poco Way in San Jose at 8:41 p.m. and located three victims, Muyo said. He said two were pronounced dead at the scene and the other suffered non-life threatening injuries.

No suspects have been detained and police did not disclose victim information.

The shooting marked San Jose's 20th homicide case this year.

In Oakland, two men were shot and killed Tuesday night in a double homicide on Oakland's deadly Bancroft Ave.

Officers responded to reports of gunfire at around 7:50 p.m. in the 4500 block of Bancroft Avenue, according to a dispatcher. Two men who had suffered gunshot wounds were pronounced dead at the scene.

The homicides ran Oakland's murder rate to 95 for the year.

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armoredman
September 12, 2007, 12:42 PM
Doublespeak will proclaim that the death toll would have been much higher if not for former Mayor Fienslime's gun control, and all of her hard work in Congress stemming the flow of assault weapons into San Fran and Kali altogether. What a hero...

Im283
September 12, 2007, 12:47 PM
don't these criminals know that killing people is against the law?

Eyesac
September 12, 2007, 01:03 PM
Speachless...

Seancass
September 12, 2007, 01:42 PM
that sounds like a war zone. its unbelieveable that there can be that many murders in one area and cover it all in one article, like its so normal to have someone shot to death while sitting at a light, presumably just singing along with the radio and waiting for the light like any one of us would be doing. i hope every one of these murderers suffers a similar fate as they have handed out; to die slowly in the middle of a road as people walk by without caring.

CountGlockula
September 12, 2007, 01:51 PM
Irony.

LeoC
September 12, 2007, 02:25 PM
I'm sure a lot can be attributed to gang activity.

Incidentally, Oakland is Alameda County, right? Home of gun-banning legislator (and CCW holder) Don Perata? Wonder what HE's going to say about this :barf:

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 12, 2007, 02:30 PM
Home of gun-banning legislator (and CCW holder) Don Perata? Wonder what HE's going to say about this
He'll say the guns are coming from gun shows in Nevada. That's the reason they say gun control in California doesn't work.

QuarterBoreGunner
September 12, 2007, 03:56 PM
TNT along the San Andreas Fault line and let that state GO!
Trust me, we can hardly wait until the massive earthquake that's coming causes the San Andreas fault to give way...

...and everything EAST of it sinks to the bottom of the ocean.

Play nice or don't play at all.

ArmedBear
September 12, 2007, 04:07 PM
Note how it doesn't say a THING about who the "people" were who suffered gunshot wounds, or who the 21-year-old driving the SUV was, apart from a name. No mention was made of any possible motive. Seldom are people killed in their cars in broad daylight for no reason whatsoever.

Given the neighborhoods and the pattern of violence, I'd bet these were gang and drug turf wars.

"People suffered gunshot wounds" is a strange way to put it, when you think about it, unless nobody had any clue about what happened or why. Somehow, I doubt that's the case.

No cop in the area had an opinion? Or no cop dared speak his/her mind? Or the reporter didn't want to know.

That's how you turn a story about a serious social problem, about people involved in a form of organized crime (and sometimes neighborhood-level terrorism, which organized crime has always used) into a story about an anonymous gun. Oh, those evil guns that go around and shoot people.

Just my reaction to this story.

Nolo
September 12, 2007, 04:15 PM
So basically, twice (7, if I read correctly) as many people were killed in California on that day as Americans were killed in Iraq yesterday (4). That is inexcusable. The government there should be overhauled. If they cannot keep their deadly crime rate to below war-zone levels, then they are doing something wrong.

ArmedBear
September 12, 2007, 04:24 PM
What if the unsaid information in the story went like this...

Instead of:
Meanwhile, two people were killed Tuesday night in a triple shooting in San Jose and two men were found dead in an Oakland double homicide.

Two known members of a San Jose street gang were killed Tuesday by members of a rival gang from across the bay. Two members of that gang were found dead later that day in Oakland. Tagging found over the bodies indicated that the killing was in retaliation for the earlier murders.

Instead of:

Earlier at around 3 p.m., 21-year-old Deondra Holden of Richmond was shot dead behind the wheel of a sports utility vehicle near the intersection of Richmond Parkway and Hensley Avenue in Central Richmond, according to police.


About 3 in the afternoon, Deondra Holden had just made a delivery of crack cocaine to Central High School in Richmond, and was returning with the money, when witnesses say he was shot by members of a rival gang of crack dealers who claim Central High as their turf. They went through his vehicle, took several bags assumed to be cash, and fled the scene, witnesses said.

(Except that no witnesses would ever talk, of course.)

That's probably about how the story REALLY went, give or take some details. The gist is there.

Colt46
September 12, 2007, 04:37 PM
That means you have a slightly better than even chance of getting away with murder. Jesus wept.

ArmedBear
September 12, 2007, 04:38 PM
Colt, actually, most murderers probably eventually get convicted though, since they're multiple repeat offenders.:p

Patriot-Brewer
September 12, 2007, 04:44 PM
For all those that failed geography 101 and plate techtonics 101;). When the San Andreas goes and lops off California, it's only lopping off a small sliver of south-western California.
Now, while losing all of L.A. will be a good thing, we'd also lose large portions of Riverside and San Diego counties...majority Republican areas with representitives that are largely pro-gun. The crappiest thing is that most of the bay area will still exist.:(

Euclidean
September 12, 2007, 04:48 PM
I say we take the combined CA based THR members plus the calguns people and put them somewhere safer for a while, say, Arizona. For about five years, all expenses paid.

In the meantime, the USMC goes in and just wrecks everything in the state. Burn it all to the ground. And they leave. We give nature five years to mostly retake it.

Then we we send the people still in AZ back to CA to start all over again.

Edit: I'm being facetious and expressing how I can't believe it.

ArmedBear
September 12, 2007, 04:50 PM
You don't need the USMC.

I think that over the next few years, the overregulated, overtaxed economy of CA might have about the same effect without a shot being fired or a bomb dropped.

QuarterBoreGunner
September 12, 2007, 05:00 PM
The crappiest thing is that most of the bay area will still exist And my home, and my mom's home and my dad's. And most of my friend's homes and lives. Quit your whining about how much California sucks. I live here and I love it. If you'd like to see how dedicated we our here to protecting our rights, and for examples of the sheer genius displayed by the Californian gun owner to work within the law, spend some time on www.calguns.net.

And I would direct you to this post from Oleg (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3646236&postcount=1):
"Conduct becoming ladies and gentlemen is expected, without religious, national or other prejudices. That means no slurs on Californians...[snip]"

Remember, wherever you live has problems too. Clean your own house first.

Roccobro
September 12, 2007, 05:03 PM
So many mixed emotions after reading all that misery.

I'm still reelling from the San Frans DA's decision in '04 NOT to seek the death penalty for a registered gang member killing a SF cop with an AW!!
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/04/14/BAGPP64NE314.DTL

I think one or more of the latest victims should have been that DA and some of her family instead.

Justin

Clyde Nocar
September 12, 2007, 05:05 PM
Its clear to me. They just need a few more laws. That should do the trick!

CWL
September 12, 2007, 05:14 PM
Unbelievably rare for San Jose, but sounds like a typical Sat. night for Oakland and Richmond.

Richmond CA boasts one of the highest murder rates in the USA, in addition to street gangs selling cocaine/crack/weed; it is also HQ to the Richmond Hell's Angels and was one of the original starting places for our national crystal meth crisis...

Here's a link to Don Perata's CCW application. If anyone isn't aware, Perata is one of the leading proponents (and greatest hypocrite) of gun control in CA.
http://www.equalccw.com/donperata.gif

Pilgrim
September 12, 2007, 05:22 PM
Isn't it strange there have been no arrests or prosecutions of people for making death threats to Senator Perata?

Pilgrim

QuarterBoreGunner
September 12, 2007, 05:27 PM
I'm still reelling from the San Frans DA's decision in '04 NOT to seek the death penalty for a registered gang member killing a SF cop with an AW!!
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...GPP64NE314.DTL
Yeah, that sucked, I met Officer Espinoza once and was impressed with him.
While I'm in no way defending her, the DA Harris was in a pretty messed up position: She was recently elected and ran on a campaign promise of pledging to never seek the death penalty for cases she presided over.
Then Issac was killed and everyone (me included) was screaming for the head of the scumbag that killed him on a stick.
I understand staying true to your intentions and promises (especially if they helped her get elected) but dammit that ****** needs to die.

KBintheSLC
September 12, 2007, 05:31 PM
"So basically, twice (7, if I read correctly) as many people were killed in California on that day as Americans were killed in Iraq yesterday (4). That is inexcusable."

Probably because our soldiers in Iraq have the means to defend themselves.

ArmedBear
September 12, 2007, 05:31 PM
She was recently elected and ran on a campaign promise of pledging to never seek the death penalty for cases she presided over.

A promise like that would get a DA elected in San Diego, well, never.

Pilgrim
September 12, 2007, 05:35 PM
While I'm in no way defending her, the DA Harris was in a pretty messed up position: She was recently elected and ran on a campaign promise of pledging to never seek the death penalty for cases she presided over.
I take it she won't have the endorsement of the SFPD's police officer association next election?

Pilgrim

JohnL2
September 12, 2007, 05:45 PM
Most likely gang violence.
Pretty much affirms what one of the guys at work told me. He's a former felon.
He said gun control is an absolute joke.
If he wanted to he could go into the city and get anything he wanted. If the gun is hot, or connected to a body, it is dirt cheap. He said it pretty much goes like this, a guy in the suburbs has a drug habit. Short of money, he starts fencing stuff on the streets to feed his addiction. Guess what has decent street value for crank on the streets?

I was amused he asked me if I bought any of my guns "offline". Cynical bastard. Everyone is crooked in his eyes.
Definitely had that hustler and playa' attitude.

50 Shooter
September 12, 2007, 05:45 PM
Seeing that someone else already brought it up and this is the second time today that I find myself writing this.... California is sitting on a subduction zone and is rising on the tectonic plate, so the idea of it falling off into the ocean isn't going to happen.:rolleyes:

I know this breaks the hearts of many so get over it, those of us trapped here are doing all we can do and need all the help we can get. So help us out or be ready to fight when it comes your way.:)

QuarterBoreGunner
September 12, 2007, 05:48 PM
I take it she won't have the endorsement of the SFPD's police officer association next election?
This would be a safe assumption.

JLStorm
September 12, 2007, 05:56 PM
I wonder if continual news like this will either prompt californians to either want more gun laws to feel more protected, or get so fed up with the way things are that they realize their laws are not working and start moving the other way?

Colt46
September 12, 2007, 08:51 PM
I would think that would be standard procedure. Does anybody know if there was any record of his reporting these threats to any jurisdiction?

CountGlockula
September 12, 2007, 09:02 PM
One solution: We don't need to move out of CA, we need good 'ol THR folks to move INTO CA!!! Power in numbers.

Crime is super prevalent in Oakland/Richmond/San Jose area and we need folks who will take a stand to protect themselves and be buddy-buddy with LEOs. It's seems that there are only a good handful of us folks here.

thorn726
September 12, 2007, 09:11 PM
hooray! yep, i live in one of the safe? parts of nor cal, Berkeley, we are in between richmond and oakland, across from SF.

Gun Control works GREAT here!!!!!

practically no one in Berkeley has a gun, so the gun owners form neighboring cities have no trouble at all controlling us berkeley citizens at will..

it works so well we only hear shots in this town once or twice a week...

i've lived in a few other areas, all much more lenient on guns, and i have seen and heard way more gunfire here than anywhere= as in i never heard any criminal shots until i came to cal.

HA! one of my first weeks in CAl, kids shot at each other at a REST AREA over stupid gang graffitti

yep, GOOD JOB pols!

Great- looking over the locations, i have been in my truck at all of the richmond and oakland shootings locations. that rich parkway one is pretty remote too, odd spot for a killing.
(i don't go to SJ)

thorn726
September 12, 2007, 09:16 PM
I wonder if continual news like this will either prompt californians to either want more gun laws to feel more protected, or get so fed up with the way things are that they realize their laws are not working and start moving the other way?

TV reports after shootings usually show about a 50-50 split in public opinion, of course no telling how accurate that is.
the one saving grace
the majority of Californians do seem to realize full on banning of guns equals house to house searches for guns, and few want that.

personally i find more of a 40-60 split in favor of guns here among people i talk
to, but the problem is the anti-gunners here are OVER THE TOP.

the people who have been against guns here usually tell me
"not even the police should have guns, they should all be destroyed"

which i find hilarious. one tool makes an 80 lb woman tougher than a 280 lb man.

RustyFN
September 12, 2007, 09:30 PM
I grew up in the Bay Area. I wouldn't go to Richmond and most of Oakland and SJ in the day time, you can forget at night. Those places have been bad ever since I can remember. I moved away 12 years ago and can only imagine how bad it is now. I agree that most of it is probably gang related so for the most part no great loss.
Rusty

Mot45acp
September 12, 2007, 09:34 PM
I was born and raised in San Jose on Monterey Highway right by the Santa Clara County Fair Grounds and Capitol Drive In/Flea Market.

I was 17 when I realized all was heading south, (friends shot at school) so I moved to the real South. I havent looked back.

This was how my interest/lifestyle in the firearm culture began. When you are told you cant have something it makes you want it more.

Charles Foxtrot
September 12, 2007, 10:36 PM
The obvious answer is pass more laws! The criminals obviously need more laws!

<Sigh>

Studies and anecdotal evidence have shown that the shooters will likely have a long history of arrests, maybe a few prosecutions, and little, if any, actual punishment before they pulled the trigger. Our crims, excuse me, victims of society, are given every chance, the lawabiding gun owners: less all the time, the victims: none.

Crazy state. Crazy politicians. Crazy voters. I'm starting to think I'm crazy too, for trying to stick it out.

eric.cartman
September 12, 2007, 10:48 PM
Geee,
If we only had brass micro stamping on those dreaded semiautomatics we could have saved those innocent lives :what:

:banghead:

KC&97TA
September 12, 2007, 11:59 PM
You know, I'm not from CA, but I live here... I stay in San Diego Country as much as I can... I've driven to LA once this year, when I did, I brought my pistol with me.

San Diego County seems to have the common since that the rest of CA seems to lack, we a huge support for the out door recreations, hunting, fishing, beaches, desert off roading, 4x4 trails, atv trails, public and private ranges and the LEO have our respect and assistance to turn a blind eye to some of our CCW or when we go to investigate why the car alarm is going off with your 1911 in 'mexican carry'.

Maybe it's all the US Marines, Navy and Army Personel stationed down here in So Cal that make a difference and conservative nature that makes this county different vs. the dope smokeing, college party, holly wood types.

wideym
September 13, 2007, 04:27 AM
Even if an earthquake caused the PRK to slide off the contentint I'm sure it would be blamed on Republican/hunter/milita/racist white guy shooting at the fault with an evil black semiautomatic machinegun firing teflon coated, 50cal, cop killer bullets. :)

Sylvan-Forge
September 13, 2007, 05:29 AM
So what is to stop the gunowners of California from banning together (Calguns?) and bringing suit against the local governments and/or the state itself for impedement and infringement of the 2nd?

Mannix
September 13, 2007, 05:33 AM
So what is to stop the gunowners of California from banning together (Calguns?) and bringing suit against the local governments and/or the state itself for impedement and infringement of the 2nd?
First they need some case law establishing the 2nd as an individual right. We should have that my next year around late summer(if SCOTUS takes Heller), or we could have a contradictory ruling, which would really stink.

Fisherman_48768
September 13, 2007, 01:01 PM
He'll say the guns are coming from gun shows in Nevada. That's the reason they say gun control in California doesn't work.

Then California needs to build a fence around the state to keep it's residents from coming and going.

Gordon
September 13, 2007, 01:20 PM
Sounds like Darwin thinning out the herd. What we really need is a large free fire zone, completely unpoliced with all the confiscated drug contraband dropped in by helicopter. Once a month send in armored bulldozers to push the bodies into lime pits (or leave them) until we cut the gangs, criminal and doper populations down to proper size.:)

Roccobro
September 14, 2007, 01:54 AM
The meat is kinda tough and stringy, but declaring open season on drug runners might thin their herd a little. :D

Justin

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