[viking499]

What would you recommend as a decent quality, cheap priced O/U 20 guage for my 11 year old son to shoot birds and some clay with? No youth models. Single trigger.

[Oldnamvet]

Cheap and O/U don't go together too well. Having said that, I have a Stoeger Condor in 20 ga. that I have put through a couple thousand rounds with no problems as yet. A very utilitarian gun but at $300 I can go through a bunch before I would have saved money putting out $2K for one of the really good O/U guns.

[MCgunner]

Okay, I never remember how to spell it, something like Yildiz, is that right? They have 'em at Academy and they look really good and I've heard lots of positive replies to them from owners. I think that would be ONE Turkish gun I could live with. Many of the Turkish guns have had problems, but this one seems pretty stout. Other than that, a Remington Spartan is a STRONG gun that will last as long as any box lock, but it's butt ugly. I have a side by side I really like. I rather like cheap side by sides, own two, one I've owned since 1971 and have put through hell duck hunting salt marshes. It is a Spanish gun and stills shoots well and locks up tight. So, inexpensive (I prefer the term to "cheap') doubles can serve quite well. Would I rather have a Browning Superposed? SURE! Buy me one and I'll be happy to use it!

Really, what I dislike about the Spartan is the wood. It's supposed to be walnut, but it ain't very pretty, the finish is dull, the fit is, shall I describe as "overlapping"? LOL And, the checkering is blah. But, hey, that don't affect how it shoots. The thing is a good shootin' gun. I'm only now starting to use it, bought new last winter, but so far I've been really impressed with it. Nothing really wrong with the metal parts. They all fit up fine. The receiver on mine is nickeled which should keep corrosion down, I hope. It's rather plain, but that's okay. I ain't all that worried about engraving and such.

[TX1911fan]

Yildiz is a great buy. I own 2, a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge. They are my only "non-name brand" guns, but that hasn't been a problem. I have over 2,000 rounds through each, and they are holding up nicely, no problems. If you can get to an Academy Sports store (they are the importers) take a look. The wood varies, so if you look around, you can find some nice stuff. I bought mine intended to use if for a couple years and the upgrade, but I don't know if I'll need to now. Here is a shot of both of mine together.


http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8393/dsc0224ac8.jpg

[romeo212000]

Ill second the yildiz. I own a 12 gauge and my friend owns a twenty and they are fantastic guns. I have around 2000 rounds through mine as well and it has never even had a hiccup. You can find some beautiful wood on the stocks (ask to look at them) and they come with 5 chokes. Part of the reason they are soo affordable is because Turkey (where they are made) has not joined the European Union yet and therefore their cost of labor is very low, so dont let the price fool you. They are pretty light weight so I recommend shooting 1oz loads out of the 12 gauge and 7/8oz loads out of the twenty. Fantastic gun for the money.

[Milkmaster]

I reccommend the Remington Spartan 310. My son uses one for his trap team effort with no problems. Dick's Sporting Goods has them right now for $399.

[TX1911fan]

I added heavier recoil pads to overcome the light weight. With light loads on my 20 gauge it seems like a .22 to me.

[MCgunner]

I was really lookin' hard at a 20 gauge Yildiz when I found my Spartan SPR220 and just had to have it. :D I got it for $299 and it's been a dandy so far. I still don't own an O/U in my collection, but they're pretty affordable. Just don't know if I can justify yet ANOTHER shotgun. But, I'd sure like to own a Yildiz, good lookin' guns for the money.

[ArmedBear]

Why no youth models?

Fit is kinda important, unless you want him to learn that shooting shotguns is no fun at all and he's rather do needlepoint and play with dolls instead.

Stoeger Youth 20 (around 300 bucks and from what I've seen, quite reliable) has a 13" LOP, 36.5" OAL, and weighs 5.5 lb.

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/condor.tpl

Unless your son is one enormous 11 year old, he'll be a LOT happier shooting that than a gun that's way too big and heavy for him. In a few years, another kid will want it, and it should be really easy to sell. Then your son can get his first "forever" shotgun (SKB is a favorite of mine and not too expensive) in adult size. If he has earned it.:)

[Cheeseybacon]

Someone help me out here. I am having the darnest time understanding why so many over and unders and other various dedicated skeet/trap guns are so freaking expensive, especially when you consider just how simple their design is. A simple, two-shot, break-action shotgun does not strike me as the kind of weapon that would go for thousands of dollars, yet apparently they do. Why is this?

[ArmedBear]

Here's a clue.

A friend of mine did some restoration work on the worn monoblock on my Browning BT-99.

When he gave it back to me, I noticed that it was on a completely different receiver. He'd mixed barrels, foreends and receivers from one of his guns, and mine. And everything fit perfectly. Hinges, chamber face, everything. Then I put my own receiver and foreend on the barrel, and they fit perfectly, too. There's a lot more that has to be "just right" on a break-action than on a receiver gun (and the real nice semiautos can be in the same price range, even with plastic stocks, these days).

It's much more expensive to make a perfect break-action gun that shoots straight and lasts for hundreds of thousands of rounds, with perfect polished blue and nice wood, than to make something like an 870 Express (which I also have). The 870 was designed to be cheap to build and require no precision fitting. And even the 870, if you get the Wingmaster with a nice finish on it, is over $600.

A violin is much simpler than an electronic keyboard, yet a good violin is much more expensive. For similar reasons.

[2RCO]

It costs a hella lot more to make a quality OU than it does to make a Semi-Auto or pump. The fit has to be just right and you can't just slap two barrels together. Read about John & Val Browning's early adventures with FN and the Superposed. They could crank out Auto 5's all day long but it was a long time before they could get the quality on the Superposed up to a point they felt they could sell them.

[TX1911fan]

Plus the fact that you have two barrels. Just that fact alone adds to the cost. Take the cost of a quality single shot and then price out the cost of a replacement barrel, and you'll see it starts to add up pretty quick.

[MCgunner]

It ain't the hardware, it's the fitting and regulation of barrels and such. In this modern era of CNC, CAD CAM, laser alignment tools, etc, you'd think the costs would be reduced, though.

[atblis]

Buy a used one and get something decent. I'd avoid the Turkish stuff for now.

SKB/Weatherby
Beretta
Browning

There are some decent Spanish,Italian,etc. guns that are okay. Good luck getting parts when something breaks.

Autoloaders break them just as well.

[ArmedBear]

I picked up an old Ithaca SKB 20 Gauge in great shape for $500. It had a couple stock cracks behind the receiver, but they were along the grain and were easily fixed with glue. It looks almost like it did when it was new, and shoots like a new one.

A great gun, without any reservations. atblis is right on.

[elkhuntingfool]

What would you recommend as a decent quality, cheap priced O/U 20 guage for my 11 year old son to shoot birds and some clay with? No youth models. Single trigger.

I picked up a Stoeger Condor in a 20ga - very very nice gun. My father in law loves it as well - shoots better than his 12ga O/U. I also have that in a 12ga. You'll enjoy it.

[orionengnr]

I have owned a Stoeger Condor; pretty nice SxS, good value.

I've had two Baikal SxS, and liked them both. My friend has a Baikal O/U, and he likes it just fine. They are good value as well. The Spartan is an up-priced Baikal.

I've looked at the Huglu (another Turkish shotgun, and they look very well-built. Just a few more bucks, but some very nice wood.

I'm not a big shotgunner, so I don't "get" the $1000+ O/Us. Especially for an 11 year old.

Good shopping, happy hunting.

[Jimmy Newman]

I shot a youth model Winchester 1300 pump my dad bought from a friend of his until I was 13 or 14. At that point, I switched to an old 20ga O/U that my grandfather bought for me. At that point, it was way too big for me, but I shot it anyway because I liked the gun. :)

I wasn't really big enough to handle the O/U until I was 15 or 16. I think most full size O/U's will be really front-heavy for an 11 year old and hard to handle. My experience helping young kids learn to shoot shotguns in Boy Scouts has agreed with this pretty well so far.

[RonE]

Are you stuck on an O/U? the second barrel adds lots of foreward weight. How about a Remington 870 pump. Same money as a cheap o/u but less weight, easy to get parts, and proven to shoot thousands of rounds flawlessly.

[New_geezer]

So many people seem to get stuck on the idea of an O/U. I admit I got the bug too but not for my first gun.

A Remington 870 or Mossberg 500, pumps, are great first guns, proven, versatile and easily configured many ways. They are also fairly inexpensive which is a good thing if you don't know yet that your son will even like the shooting sports. A quality pump is a basic part of any gun collection.

I can see the value of going with a full size gun tho. The adult stock can always be cut down for now and replaced later as he grows. The full size gun will better absorb recoil. I've tried a few youth sized models and they can kick pretty good.

But if an O/U is they only option, Yildiz would be the only Turkish option I'd check out ATT. Baikals are good but heavy. Stoegers I've seen are crude but durable. I'm reluctant to invest heavily in a sport the kid may not enjoy or get much use out of. On the other hand these will always be good beat-around or loaner guns if he does like the the sport

[MCgunner]

Are you stuck on an O/U? the second barrel adds lots of forward weight. How about a Remington 870 pump. Same money as a cheap o/u but less weight, easy to get parts, and proven to shoot thousands of rounds flawlessly.

:what: I've found quite the opposite. Repeaters balance out front over the support hand and my doubles all balance between the hands making them a little whippy, not as smooth swinging, but quicker to the shoulder. Now, this is side by sides, not OUs. That Yildiz I handled felt quite similar, though. I have picked up a HEAVY 10 gauge double before and it was way muzzle heavy, but it had THICK barrels. I guess it's how they build 'em. You don't want a 5.5 lb quick pointing 10 gauge, unless you're the incredible hulk or something. :D

I think a kid would like my 20 gauge Spartan. Mine's a coach gun with 20" barrels, but it can be had with 26" tubes. It's light, quick handling, and the stock is short. I added a THICK Pachmayr recoil pad to mine to increase the length of pull. It was quite short for me, felt like a chinese SKS, but that'd be a good thing for a kid. I don't know how their OUs fit, though, never picked one up. I only gave $299 for the spartan. You can get a 870 express or Mossberg 500 or Maverick for less, but 300 ain't that much of an investment and you can sell it if he don't like it.

[txgolfer45]

Honestly, I'd recommend your son get a good used 20 ga semiauto like a Beretta AL390 or Remington 1100.