[Boats]

We all know what the antis say about these unfortunate incidents--"the availability of guns makes them do it."

Why don't we play social scientist for a minute? In my 36 years on this planet it does seem to be the case in the past twenty years that multiple victim shooting sprees are more numerous than when I growing up. To confirm this, I just spoke with my father, who also doesn't recall quite so many in the 50s, 60s and 70s. There were rare cases he recalled like Whitman, the Son of Sam, and some others, but he could not recall workers going in and shooting up factories, or students blasting their fellows, and he distinctly remembers that the term "goin' postal" entered the vocabulary in the 80s.

What are your theories about the seemingly increased incidence of mass shootings or serial shootings? It doesn't appear to be merely a case of increased media focus. Or is increased media focus helping to cause these shootings through a copycat phenomenon of "goin' out in a blaze of glory," turning what were once quiet suicides into mass homicide followed by suicides?

What gives?

[Preacherman]

I would lay a lot of the blame on two sources: Hollywood and the news media. Hollywood portrays violence in its most gruesome form, in movie after movie, and saturates our society and culture with its images (even while most of the "stars" pontificate against "gun violence" and for "gun control"... go figure!). TV shows imitate this in many cases. As for the news media, they don't bother reporting the GOOD uses of guns much, but sensationalize and over-report every single BAD use of a gun that comes along.

No wonder potential bad guys get ideas... :rolleyes:

[Shalako]

I think the diminished sense of personal responsibility plays a part. Its always someone else's fault that their life took a dump.

[cuchulainn]

1) The pop-culture's glorification of social angst and misery. If the movies have blame, IMHO, it's not so much in showing graphic violence, but in bombarding people with the notion that they are socially attacked by their peers and oppressed by authorities ... but that those attackers and oppressors actually are inferior and deserving of contempt and even hatred. This runs the gamut from left to right, from counter-culture movies to conservative talk radio. Most people aren't affected to a wacked-out level; a few are [see 2) to 4)].

edited to add: Shalako's point plays into this.

2) We have more population density, which means more opportunity for mass attacks.

edited to add: This density isn't just geographic, but per-building. School buildings and office buildings hold substantially more people and pack them in tighter.

3) We have more population, which means more wackos.

4) Combine 1), 2) and 3 and you have a higher likelihood that wackos will have opportunities.

5) More mobility, meaning wackos can go to dense population easier if need be.


Other factors:

Copycats? Absolutely.

Less respect for law and life? No question.

Access to guns? Absurd. There is less access to guns.

More media? Yes.

Less parental control? Yep (even in adults who had less parental control).

[2dogs]

"In 1962 this magazine published a seminal
paper by experimental psychologist John
B. Calhoun entitled “Population Density
with an observation by the late-
18th-century English demographer Thomas
Malthus that human population growth is
automatically followed by increased vice and
misery. Calhoun went on to note that although
we know overpopulation causes disease
and food shortage, we understand virtually
nothing about its behavioral impact.
This reflection had inspired Calhoun to
conduct a nightmarish experiment. He placed
an expanding rat population in a crammed
room and observed that the rats soon set
about killing, sexually assaulting and, eventually,
cannibalizing one another."

http://cwis.livjm.ac.uk/bes/Research/PA/CopingCrowding00.pdf

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe we be da rats? :what:

[Jeeper]

I think that it is a demise of strict family control and child control in schools. Now days kids know their parents and teachers cant do anything to them. I also think that once it was done one time then people get the idea to become a copycat. All the kids that are doing it are also misfits. They were the geeks and nerds who always got teased. I think that video games als have something to do with it. Not in the way you might think though. I think that these kids who are nerds and such now can go hide and be tough in their video game world. Before video games they might have actually been outside socializing with others. Video games and the internet have made them less social.

[2dogs]

Or, for the crop circles crowd, check out this theory (go to the site, read it all, lock and bolt the doors, don tin foil cap etc.....................you may be next)

-----------------------------------




"Shortly after the Austrian met with Rayelan, the tragedy at Columbine happened. Rayelan now believes that the Columbine killings were the beginning of the final push to take all guns out of the hands of the American people. One month, to the day, after Columbine, another similar shooting occurred in Georgia. These killings are not random acts of teenage violence. These school killings are a planned, methodical attack on the American Constitution and the freedom which is enjoyed but taken for granted by citizens of the United States of America.

The method of the attack is designed to inflame anger and hysteria in the American public. The media whips up the anger and hysteria and keeps it fresh in America’s mind, with continual graphic, around the clock, "overkill" coverage and commentary of the dead and wounded victims, the pain and suffering of the families, and the traumatic scars left on America’s children. The President uses the hysteria of the moment to blame guns for the problems in Americas schools and with America’s children. In the heat of hysteria, Congress is pressured to pass more guns laws. "

Read more here:



http://www.rumormillnews.com/operation.htm

[Sheslinger]

I agree with more media exposure reason. However...

When my parents got out of college, people got jobs that they stayed in until they retired. Nowadays, you can be the best employee ever and save the company hundreds of thousands of dollars but if someone on top decides you make too much money or to cut staff across the board, no one will say, "Oh, wait, we can't lay off Sheslinger because she is too valuable. Let's lay off a couple of our no-good managers who can't make any decisions and don't know anything instead". You cannot be loyal to the company but have to be a mercinary instead and ditch them before they ditch you to survive. Granted, there are some small businesses that are a pleasure to work for but corporations as a rule will use you up and spit you out.

Some people just can't handle stuff like this. Me? I have my bad days (meaning I am in a bad mood for hours after work) and then I remember that the important things in life are my faith, my family, my friends, and my health that I have to be thankful for. Everything else is a means to an end and can be replaced.

Sheslinger

[2dogs]

Or this theory:

Because there are FRICKIN' LUNATICS out there! There have always been frickin' lunatics and always will be frickin' lunatics- and guess what? They are going to do FRICKIN' LUNATIC things!

Like shoot up coworkers, throw their kids in rivers, hack up the neighbors.

The world is a dangerous place, no?:eek:

[Tamara]

Mass shootings seem to be caused by gun control laws.

The more stupid laws like the Brady Bill and the AW ban, the more spree killings we seem to see. :uhoh:

[Carlos Cabeza]

I can't stand it when I hear the term "goin' postal". :banghead: The phrase was coined for a post office shooting in Edmond, OK. by a man named Patrick Henry Sherrill. :fire: A weak minded individual that couldn't bear his own shortcomings and endure the hardships of life. :barf:

[rrader]

Mass shootings seem to be caused by gun control laws.

Truth. Years ago kids could get firearms at any Sears or True-Value hardware store and none of this mass killing went on. The more society divorces kids from the normal and wholesome experience of firearms use and ownership, the more warped and perverted view they will have of them.

Hollywood isn't helping with their saturation-level bombardment of kids with the most peverted, anti-human, violent imagery that their twisted imaginations and misused technology can create.

[HBK]

You guys have pretty much summed it up, especially cuchculainn and Tamara. I bet the antis are going to have a field day with the two incidents today. What was up with the Rayelan thing? That's kind of scary. It sounds crazy, but there have been attacks being pressed on our RKBA. Actually, it is kind of ridiculous, but that shooting sprees are followed by intense attampts to ban guns.

[P95Carry]

Yeah, this has been covered pretty well. I honestly think ... if carry was not barred from schools (legit of course) ..... and the workplace ..... things would be a great deal safer.

A regretable fact of life is - that there are out there a few head-cases .. no way to avoid that. They will always find a gun if determined enough .. what matters most is the means to counter such an attack from one of them .... in fact probably just deter .... apart that is from the suicidal ones!

Banning, banning and more banning just will not cut it ... not in the social environment we find ourselves in these days.

[Mark Tyson]

I think it is the media. It sure as heck isn't access to guns. There has always been violence in this society, and there have always been unbalanced crazies out there. But I don't think there were as many spree killings in the past as there are today. One thing that changed was the rise of mass media. There are certainly individual cases of criminals imitating movies - Scream and Natural Born Killers come to mind. The Columbine killers reportedly bragged "it's going to be just like doom", a reference to the ultra-violent video game.

It's still just a tiny fraction of probably already looney people who go off the deep end and kill someone. But the rise of spree killings seems to parallel the rise of mass video/cinema entertainment a little too closely to be a coincidence.

Will they next propose a ban on violent video games and movies?

[Jim March]

First, the Lockheed-Martin plant involved is an *extreme* victim disarmament zone. Gee, that helps. Not.

Second, the media has taught the nation's lunatics that only GUN violence will get them noticed. The same week some wackjob drove a Cadillac through a school and killed four, another nutter shot a school up. Care to guess which one made national news, and the other just local? Hint: there's no pressure to ban Cadillacs.

The only way a nutcase with bombs can "get fame" is to either send out a huge number of bombs, or bomb a "liberal media darling" such as an abortion clinic.

[Navy joe]

I think the diminished sense of personal responsibility plays a part. Its always someone else's fault that their life took a dump.

Ding, ding; we have a weiner. I also agree that gun control laws are causal by making guns some perverse corner in the popular psyche. The recognition that mass killers get also helps in that people with low self worth see a final way to glorify themselves. The thought is "everyone said I wouldn't amount to nuthin', I'll show them."

Another train of thought. I am a very edgy driver because I am very much aware of how people use their vehicles as a proxy to express their emotions. I am a very respectful driver because that is the way I want to be treated, I leave holes, don't tailgate and get the heck out of the way when I'm slower than someone behind me. What strikes me is how caught up in their own world everyone is. People will race to the very end of a closed lane and then try to merge, cut you off, drive right over top of you if you give them the chance. The common thread is respect for others, they have none and are in their own little world.
Translated to guns, these people are acting out and really have no regard for the others they kill, it is just what satisfies their selfish wants. The value of life means nothing if it is not their own. The gun is the same as their car, they are using a powerful device to compensate for their frustration and fears that they cannot do face to face with another person.

Tangent: Just as I figure I would not stand there and bleed in a mass shooting, I figure that not many folks have been able to show me blatant disrespect on the road twice ;).

[Skunkabilly]

Lack of personal responsibility, it's always someone else's fault.

[standingbear]

the erosion of values and morals in society today.for example; its seen to be ok by some folks for someone to lie as long as the liar is doing a good job otherwise in their minds(define infidelity?).its seen as just business to charge people 5 bucks a bag of ice(that normally costs 2 dollars a bag) when the power goes out.the throwing out of common sense in society...no tolerance policy yet no body bothers to teach lil johnny to respect others right and why theres a no tolerance policy to begin with.the old blame it on someone else mindset and ill sue.removal of discipline in schools(now theyre just removed or sent off to juvy hall)on and on..

[Sarge]

My theory is pretty simple. We all get wrapped a little tight sometimes, and the vast majoprity of us unwind in one harmless way or another. Some folks don't get unwound until they come apart like a clock spring.

If I have learned one thing, it is that in most of these cases, someone, somewhere was close enough to the shooter, either geographically or emotionally, to see it getting ready to blow. Somebody, somewhere is usually in a position to either stop, it or report it to somebody who can. maybe they just get numb to the perpetrator's conduct and don't notice, maybe they're afraid, or maybe they just don't want to get involved.

You can bet, whoever they are, they are probably seeing with 20-20 hindsight today.

Too bad- but one thing's for sure; an armed citizen inside that plant could have stopped this lunatic. I thought places like this had a kick-??? security staff?

[Ed Brunner]

My theories are just a little different. Boats, you touch on one factor. It was rarer in your father's generation because there were a number of deterrents which are not as effective today. Fifty years ago, most children were raised in two-parent homes and were educated the way the parents wanted, including religion, morality and ethics. Crime was rarer because way back then people had too much to lose by becoming criminals.

Today it is different. Parents are no longer responsible for raising their children. In fact they have little to say about how the children are raised and educated. You cannot find religion, morality or ethics in many schools. All of this contributes to the absense of self-worth found in a lot of today's youths. It helps to explain why some feel they have nothing to lose.

And, somewhere I read that quite a few of school-shooters had been forced to be on ritalin.

Obviously there are other reasons.

[ninenot]

All of you touched on this a bit--but my thought is that there's a diminished respect for life (and property) out there---SERIOUSLY diminished.

Whether it's Hollywood, or the televising of wars (life) or the major/petty larceny and dishonesty that's evident not only in Corporate life but on the streets...

We are worshipping the wrong gods.

[Cal4D4]

For my 2¢ I go with 2dogs and the rat study. All the other stuff is just a side effect of stress caused by population and job pressures. A mechanism planted in our DNA code. Some animals (lower on the food chain?) - sheep and rabbits for example - can literally be frightened to death by a strong surprise. Family breakdown and loss of social standards/respect for your fellow creature results in aberrant behaviour. Killing itself is amoral in nature. What worries us is when it happens in the wrong set and setting.