Rifle enthusiasts, this one's for you.


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WinchesterAA
September 14, 2007, 08:17 PM
Rifles are my specialty through and through. Shotguns I've got years of experience, but rifles came first for me. Pistols I'm getting a lot of experience in lately, but having shot a really large chunk of todays and yesterdays rifles, I've got a good solid grasp on what a real rifle needs...

that being said, I'm embarking on a project to get my own firearm designs up and running. I need money for that, however, and that's where ya'll come in..

I'm pretty sure the responses here won't surprise me much, but I'll never turn an idea down until I thoroughly contemplate it and decide it's not what my business will represent as far as quality and functionality go.


What do you want out of your rifle? What rifles do you love, and why? What about those rifles you love do you wish was different?

Do you like detachable magazines? Do you like a reliable system to feed stripper clips? How many rounds do you want in your rifle? How much or how little do you want it to weigh?

What's something you want that isn't offered by anyone else?

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esmith
September 14, 2007, 08:38 PM
What's something you want that isn't offered by anyone else?
Cheap ammo to feed it.

eliphalet
September 14, 2007, 08:49 PM
I think most of those questions would depend on if it is to be a sporting gun or military/home defence. Hunting I would like to see more choices in LH and removable magazines.

Bartkowski
September 14, 2007, 09:02 PM
For hunting, a Rem 700 BDL is a great looking and peforming gun, all I would want is more caliber choice, as of now they offer what, 5 or 6 choices.

rangerruck
September 14, 2007, 09:29 PM
A internal double stack mag that holds at least 4 rounds plus 1 in the pipe, so we can evenly divide the box of ammo, into two or four loadings.

a fully adustable rear site, a receiver bridge, which will allow you to set up your scope mounts in more than just one exact place, and the bridge mus be high enough, so a 50 mm front scope bell, wont hit the rear site assy., even the long varmint type scopes. a bent , or dogleg bolt, or rear slant bolt, so that if you are using a longish scope, the handle doesn't hit the rear of the scope, like it will on a CZ.
An adjustable trigger, or if not, a trigger that is 4 lbs or less from the factory.
a decent recoil pad, allready on the back, if caliber is above say, 243.

Clipper
September 14, 2007, 09:40 PM
A light (like 5lb or less loaded, with sling and good peep sights), short, bolt or pump in a good medium caliber like .260rem that won't cost $2000.00.

chad1043
September 14, 2007, 09:46 PM
History, fun, and long lasting... I'll lean on the lever action 30-30. Nothing has proven it's equal.

GunTech
September 14, 2007, 09:47 PM
A light (like 5lb or less loaded, with sling and good peep sights), short, bolt or pump in a good medium caliber like .260rem that won't cost $2000.00.


I've been thinking about this as well. Take a CZ-527 in 6.5 grendel and put it into a light composite stock and you'd be pretty close. The wood stock version of the 527 carbine weighs 5.9 pounds.

DMK
September 14, 2007, 09:51 PM
See these threads:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=302520

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=302677

Cosmoline
September 14, 2007, 09:54 PM
I've been thinking about this as well. Take a CZ-527 in 6.5 grendel and put it into a light composite stock and you'd be pretty close.

Tasty. To expand on that idea further, why not give the CZ-547 a double stack flush five rounder with the capacity to take larger high caps.

I also think iron sights are sadly undervalued and underused in 95% of the rifles on the market--the CZ's being the exception.

Pump action rifles are an interesting idea that for some reason never seem to get much attention. In an intermediate chambering they can be incredibly fast and fun.

Also, BALANCE is sadly hard to find in modern rifles. It used to be one of the key elements of rifle design, but these days the engineers just try to make the rifle lighter and lighter. This in turn makes recoil worse and worse. You can reduce FELT weight by many pounds if you understand how to get the balance right.

Chrome
September 14, 2007, 10:16 PM
A double barreled break action rifle in 30.06 would be both awesome, and somewhat simple to accomplish. Like a No. 1 Ruger with a touch of high-class shotgun mixed in.

I'd also like to see a semi-automatic .308 with the bolt lock option. So the rifle either functions as a semi or as a single shot at the flip of a switch.

I'd also like to see a shrunken Garand in .22LR. But I'll keep dreaming on that one.

Later,
Chrome...

MinScout
September 15, 2007, 12:51 AM
How about something along the lines of a European stalking rifle. A light-weight (6 lbs), break-action, sleek, elegant single shot with good solid iron sights and integral scope bases.

SaMx
September 15, 2007, 01:27 AM
that light pump or bolt with good peep sights sounds nice. Maybe not only in .260 or 6.5 grendel, but in something more common too, like .243?

CB900F
September 15, 2007, 01:43 AM
WinchesterAA;

I'd like to see a Mauser actioned gun available with a left hand bolt that appears in calibers that are common, but the other makers of LHB guns don't/won't touch. For instance, 6mm Remington instead of .243. The .257 Roberts, 6.5 X 55 Swede, .280 Remington instead of the ubiquitous .270. That kind of thing.

What in the world is to hard about screwing a 6.5 Swede barrel into a left handed action?

I've written to CZ asking them to think about the above caliber choices if they decide to import LHB CZ550's.

900F

ReadyontheRight
September 15, 2007, 02:02 AM
I would like a nice, realtively inexpensive side-by-side double hunting rifle. Available in 30-06, 45-70 and what ever other calibers people like.

If your game is not at least slowed down for you to reload by the second shot, shots 3, 4, 5+ are not going to matter.

If New England Firearms and Thompson Center can make great singles, why not great doubles? The Chinese or the Russians are going to beat them to it.

koja48
September 15, 2007, 02:11 AM
6.5 Grendel in a highly-accurate single shot . . .

ReadyontheRight
September 15, 2007, 02:14 AM
Chrome - you beat me to the double-barrel, break action 30-06 idea.

I think it's a HUGE, gaping hole in the firearms market.

Evil Monkey
September 15, 2007, 02:19 AM
I would like to see more assault rifles using 7.62x39mm and the same mags. Everything ambidextrous.

I'd also like to see more rifles coming standard with picatinny rails. *cough* AK's *cough*

Most importantly, I'd like to see a grip feed assault rifle utilizing a telescopic 5.56mm cartridge. Am I asking for too much? :D

I'd also like to see more rifles using the AK style long stroke gas operation system, fixed ejector, and generally I would like to see extremely simple rifles like the AK with the least amount of parts possible in the weapon. Lots of integration too, like the op rod and bolt carrier being semi-permanently together. No separate charging handle like the FAL or AR15. The rifle also must be as ergonomic as you can make it.

wolf13
September 15, 2007, 03:06 AM
Something that looks life the older rifles, nicer. Todays rifles just don't look as good. 4 rounds plus one in the chamber and some peep sights. Aside from that, not much else. A Garandsh gun would be nice in a different caliber, same general design and conept, just in different calibers.

wideym
September 15, 2007, 03:55 AM
For a semiautomatic, military style rifle it needs to use commonly availible mags. 5.56mm use AR mags, 7.62x39mm use AK mags, .308 use FAL/HK mags...you get the picture. I wanted to buy a .308 AR, but every one I looked at had factory specific mags that cost 40-60 dollars apiece.

Clipper
September 15, 2007, 05:13 AM
To elaborate on the pump rifle, one of my favorite rifles is my wife's Remington 141. If that rifle was made lighter, with a 20" barrel, and a Savage-type rotary magazine (detachable or not, though the twisted tube mag it was made with is indeed suitable for pointed bullets anyway), in 243, .260, etc, with maybe a light composite stock, it would be right up my alley. would a tang-mounted safety be pushing it?

RockyMtnTactical
September 15, 2007, 05:53 AM
I want to see proven designs married with ergonomics and flexibility/modularity.

For instance, the Masada has done a great job (on paper) of taking great ideas, common parts, and coming up with a new platform to use them on.

I am not sure which types of rifles you plan on building, military style, hunting and/or target rifles?

The AR15 and it's variants tend to be the most popular among people in the US. Something along those lines would surely a good place to start and have success IMO... Something in 5.56, w/ a chrome lined barrel (not an HBAR!!), and uses AR15 mags...

dscottw88
September 15, 2007, 06:10 AM
I think there might be a trend moving towards bullpup designed weapons. To have an accurate rifle in such a compact design is something everybody wants. Iv'e never seen a bullpup that just didn't look wierd to me. But regardless, that something you might want to take a look at. RockyMountainTactical said it best: Use AR15 mags. There are so many in the market its rediculous. That said, Give the operator Dozens of options. The AR is loved because you can do almost ANYTHING to it. Those 3 Options would spell success for me!

alucard0822
September 15, 2007, 09:06 AM
straight pull bolt similar to the schmidt rubin action, with the 3 pairs of locking lugs similar to the sako bolt that lock into the rear of the barrell, allowing a light aluminum reciever, with an adjustable trigger similar in design to the howa. Nice wood, internal 5rd double stack mag with some nice wood to boot would make for a light, quick and simple stalking rifle in 260 rem, 30-06, 338rem. Or similar action with a thumbhole stock, heavy fluted floated barrel and 10 rd box mag in 204, 22-250, 7mm-08, 308 should be a nice target gun.

KadicDeshi
September 15, 2007, 09:42 AM
I would really like to see a semi-auto version of the AK SMGs such as the Bison. I think it should be chambered in 9mm, .40, 10mm, & .45. I'd love to get one of these and SBR it.

Barrett

kBob
September 15, 2007, 10:25 AM
OK I'll Play and suggest an impossirifle or three as well that I would like.

I would like to see a small scale M98 Action that is scaled down to .223/5.56mm turned into a near copy of the M1903A3 (thus illiminating the magazine cut off and two piece firing pin) (Hmm did I just describe a shrunken Mexican M1954?) . Give it a C type stock scaled down for use by 6 to 11 year olds and a sporting stye composite stock that can have spacers added to lengthen pull as the kid grows.

Alternatively just copy that Mauser type little rifle the Chinese breifly imported in 7.62x39. Same-same on stocks.

I would also like to see someone rebarrel a plain old SKS or AK type rifle with a stiffer barrel in that old Bench rest caliber 6mm PPC just to see what it does. Might have to stay with the lighter bullets to make OAL but who would not like to freak people out with a sub minute of angel (reliably) capable Volksgewar? Tried to get someone to do this back around 1995 that was playing with improving SKS accuracy (reported that a tension type barrel stiffiner even from gas block to front sight seemed to improve accuracy BTW) ALso suggested that that or a 6.5 or 7mm version might prove a very usefull "new' Round for an assault rifle. It did occur to me that a 7mm model would be basically the same as the original cartridge for the EM2 in Britians early test before the swich to the American .30-06 base cartridge.

Say, there's another if I had all the money and time in the world project, scale down an FNFAL to the second of the series in 7mm (very first FAL prototypes were 7.92 Kurz), but use our easily available M43 cases to make an M43 based 7mm round. Then anyone wanting to have the "if only we had listened to the Brits on 7mm and adopted the FNFAL" wail, then they could just buy one and prove to all their M-1A and AR buddies how stupid the US was. Shoot we could maybe get a law through congress to the effect that two cases of doing such on a public internet forum would require them under threat of sever penalties to purchase one or prove they already have! Think of the sales!!!!

-Bob Hollingsworth

Rem700SD
September 15, 2007, 11:45 AM
A dedicated 10mm carbine that would take existing Glock Mags, or other existing 30+ capacity mags.

geojap
September 15, 2007, 02:46 PM
I'm very much of the same opinion as Evil Monkey. A magazine-fed semi-auto rifle in 7.62x39 or 5.56x45, with a reliable piston system, picattiny rails either attached directly to the receiver or securely mounted above the barrel, decent peep sights like the FAL or Garand, good ergonomics, solid ring attachments from which to hang a sling securely, and a quality trigger with a short, crisp break. The ability to use existing mags (like Bulgarian waffle of AR15 mags) would be nice. Stock 2-4 MOA accuracy with quality ammo would be nice. The ability to maintain the same accuracy as the barrel is heated from cold to hot would be nice too. Some rifles are better at this than others.

WinchesterAA
September 15, 2007, 06:14 PM
great ideas guys. Keep em coming =)

Vern Humphrey
September 15, 2007, 06:30 PM
Hmmm -- for hunting, I'd like to see a really light weight (6 lbs) rifle in 7mm 08 Remington. It ought to be a clone of the classic Model 70 Winchester, and I'd like it with a walnut stock, checkered with a schanable tip. And I'd like a butt trap for cleaining gear.

jpwilly
September 16, 2007, 01:40 AM
History, fun, and long lasting... I'll lean on the lever action 30-30. Nothing has proven it's equal. Except for the 30-06

GunTech
September 16, 2007, 01:52 AM
I'll lean on the lever action 30-30. Nothing has proven it's equal

Now that's a fan of 30-30. Equal in what? 7x57 worldwide has killed far more game. 303 British is up there as well. 30-06 has already been mentioned.

Charles W Webb
September 16, 2007, 02:43 AM
I'd love to see a modern semi auto rifle not based off the dragunov in 7.62x54r





Oh and I whonder if an ar in 30.06 is possible? I'd buy that in a hear beat if they were out there.

tasco 74
September 16, 2007, 03:19 AM
my new favorite rifle is the remington xr-100 single shot rifle .. i saw it in a rem catalog a couple of mos ago and last week i held one at sheel's in coralville.. what a great rifle! it has a laminated thumbhole stock with vents under the barrel,the xp-100 action and a heavy target barrel/varmint barrel chambered for .223 or .22-250... this one was fitted with a bore sighted leupold scope and it felt just right to shoulder..i want one! i wish i could afford the price on it:(..

coelacanth
September 16, 2007, 04:17 PM
a) pick a family of cartridges. my choice would be those based on the .308 Winchester : .243 Win. , 7mm-08 , .308 Win. and .338 Federal. b) that leads you to a modern short action for bolt action rifles from the deer woods to the S.W.A.T. teams. c) establish your reputation on three things: accuracy, reliability and customer service. I believe it was Charles Askins who said, " Only accurate rifles are interesting.". d) partner with ammo makers and scope makers to develop specific packages for specific applications that are simply the best available.

Vern Humphrey
September 16, 2007, 04:28 PM
Now that's a fan of 30-30. Equal in what? 7x57 worldwide has killed far more game. 303 British is up there as well. 30-06 has already been mentioned.
All great cartridges -- but on horseback, there's nothing like having a Model 94, its scabbard hanging from the gullet of the saddle.

gunnie
September 16, 2007, 05:48 PM
bolt actions seem the norm in an accuracy format. they are also nearly as reliable as a hammer. for some, they are even nearly as fast as a semi/fully, if hitting a distant target rates high in one's plans.

levers/pumps are less accurate. they are slightly less reliable than a hammer. for some, they are even nearly as fast as a semi/fully, if hitting a closer target rates high in one's plans.

semis/fullys can exhibit good accuracy traits, but usually at the cost of extended use reliability. some examples have made a hammer seem a viable alternative, at ranges too close for clearing jams. they are THE fastest shooting rifles made, and will shoot nearly as accurately as a bolt if tightly fitted, and semi-selectable.

double and single shot rifles are a niche market. the DO have distinct advantages over other systems, in their own element.
however regulating doubles to hit where one aims them gets dollar intensive. they don't sell very well in today's market.


so why re-invent the wheel? rather than trying to find a place in the GLUTTED american marketplace that has been unaddressed, perhaps improving the existing offerings would be more likely to flourish. with the exception of roller block actions, the non stop flow of "improvements" to rifle basics for the last century, have to my knowledge, failed. it could even be argued that with the nose dive in firearms mfgrs quality standards, rifle offerings have advanced to the rear as much as forward.

unless ed mcmahon's merry band of disbursers have come calling of late, your chances of having the financial resources to start rifle making are slim, except on a custom basis. and even that rareley rises to a level of quitting one's day job. on the other hand aftermarket items seem to get almost as much market share as OEM rifle mfgrs.

if your bank account allows, my suggestion to you would be to buy a cold hammer forging barrel rifling machine from whoever made the one steyr uses. buy the machinery needed to chrome line the bore. have progressive rifling blanks machined in 50BMG, 7.62, and 5.56. sell these to the army.

elmer keith's idea of progressive rifling was NOT a crack pot scheme from the porcelein think tank. the army even tested it out and got results of:

1- increased velocity
2- reduced pressure
3- extended rifling life
4- prohibitive fabrication costs

the hammer forging method has eliminated #4...

here is a void needing filled?

MinScout
September 16, 2007, 06:02 PM
One thing I would like to see on more sporting rifles are adjustable stocks. Good ones that don't rattle and give a stable platform for accurate shooting.

gunnie
September 16, 2007, 06:09 PM
bolt actions seem the norm in an accuracy format. they are also nearly as reliable as a hammer. for some, they are even nearly as fast as a semi/fully, if hitting a distant target rates high in one's plans.

levers/pumps are less accurate. they are slightly less reliable than a hammer. for some, they are even nearly as fast as a semi/fully, if hitting a closer target rates high in one's plans.

semis/fullys can exhibit good accuracy traits, but usually at the cost of, [at best], extended use reliability. the inverse therom applies here, less accuracy=more reliability. some examples have made a hammer seem a viable alternative, at ranges too close for clearing jams. they are THE fastest shooting rifles made, right up to the point the barrel starts to droop. they will shoot nearly as accurately as a bolt if tightly fitted, and semi-selectable.

double and single shot rifles are a niche market. they DO have distinct advantages over other systems, in their own element. however regulating doubles to hit where one aims them gets dollar intensive. they don't sell very well in today's market.

so why re-invent the wheel? rather than trying to find a place in the GLUTTED american marketplace that has been unaddressed, perhaps improving the existing offerings would be more likely to flourish. with the exception of roller block actions and the availability of newer materials, the non stop flow of "improvements" to rifle basics for the last century, have to my knowledge, failed. it could even be argued that with the nose dive in firearms mfgr's quality standards, rifle offerings have advanced to the rear as much as forward.

unless ed mcmahon's merry band of disbursers have come calling of late, your chances of having the financial resources to start rifle making are slim, except on a custom basis. and even that seldom rises to a level of quitting one's day job. on the other hand aftermarket items seem to get almost as much market share as OEM rifle mfgrs.

if your bank account allows, my suggestion to you would be to buy a cold hammer forging barrel rifling machine from whoever made the one steyr uses. buy the machinery needed to chrome line the bore. have progressive rifling blanks machined in 50BMG, 7.62, and 5.56. sell these to the military.

elmer keith's idea of progressive rifling was NOT a crack pot scheme from the porcelein think tank. the army even tested it out and got results of:

1- increased velocity
2- reduced pressure
3- extended rifling life
4- prohibitive fabrication costs

the hammer forging method has eliminated #4...

here is a void needing filled?

gunnie

WinchesterAA
September 17, 2007, 02:05 AM
thank you very much gunnie, that was great help.

I plan to start another business that I and a friend are both very skilled at. Let that get going well enough to sell it for enough money to fund my future projects. I'm about to take up a job as an apprentice gunsmith, so I'll get some really good experience as well as learn exactly what I don't have for making what I want to make.

nevertheless, an infinite amount of "my rifle is almost perfect, here's why it aint" comments isn't nearly enough and are my main focus. I want to introduce something not necessarily different, but more in-line with todays technology whereas 50 years ago computers were huge.. firearms today seem more like redneck mechanics that had a great idea, but that idea aint quite complete... Firearms today are built on observation. Things could be done much better, and I know how they can be done. Everything else is a matter of customer opinion, because I do want this to give me a high life so I can take care of my wife and kids to the expectations of myself, but also because I love it and I want to introduce something far more effective for any use than what we have today, because it just aint something I'd want to bet my life on.

The AK, my bolt guns, my 870, and my revolvers I'd all be pretty damn close to betting my life on though..

wheelgunslinger
September 19, 2007, 12:03 PM
My needs:

A magazine fed medium caliber self loader that can be used for home defense, game hunting, and sport shooting like 3 gun match and medium distance shooting. But, in a bullpup design. And light.

I don't want a cabinet full of rifles. I just want one good one that I can use for everything.

BillinNH
September 19, 2007, 12:16 PM
I'd like to see pump action offered in a number of common calibers. For many applications it is as strong as a bolt and it is faster for repeat shots than a lever. I would include an external hammer for cocking and decocking when there is already a round in the chamber. And it should have a detachable box magazine or a permanent non-tube magazine so it can shoot spitzers.

And while you're at it, make it a takedown.

I have a rifle with most of these properties (no external hammer) and I love it. It is a Savage model of 1903 and mine was built sometime between 1906 and 1921. The design clearly works. See thumbnail.

Bill

Kalashnikov
September 19, 2007, 09:39 PM
Replica firearms would fill a big niche today. I'd sell my soul (had I not lost it in a poker game) for a replica SVT or G43 or FG42, Etc. Also you can easily pick up on the tacticool market with some nice new bullpups (again you can make replicas of the new guns). Finally cheaper guns are good. Casting can be just as strong and sturdy as forging if you know what you're doing, and much cheaper. So give casting a try, and you have yourself the cheapest and some of the sturdiest rifles around.

PercyShelley
September 20, 2007, 01:34 AM
Kalashnikov, there are replica FG-42s. They go for 10K U$. I hope that was some poker game.

I would like to see a sub $100 bolt action in 9mm along the lines of the Spanish destroyer carbine. 9mm is some of the cheapest centerfire ammo right now, and its ballistics are fairly close to .22lr. It would be, therefore, a good rifle for people who don't want something hugely expensive to buy or to operate, but who wants something that can reliably dispatch large vermin two or four legged. Since the action should be dirt cheap to make, as much of the costs as possible should go into accurizing the rifle out of the factory doors. Compatability with common magazines would also be a plus.

the hammer forging method has eliminated #4...


Gunnie, how exactly will you remove the mandrel from the barrel after it's been pounded around? With conventional rifling, it should screw right out. I don't see how this will work with progressive twist.

Cool idea otherwise though.

SaMx
September 20, 2007, 01:44 AM
the above, that takes glock mags. sized for the glock 26 mags up.

plus maybe versions in .40 and .357 sig and .45 acp too.

and it could change caliber's by changing barrels/uppers like an ar-15.

Kalashnikov
September 20, 2007, 02:08 AM
Kalashnikov, there are replica FG-42s. They go for 10K U$. I hope that was some poker game.

I should have rephrased that. AFFORDABLE replicas. And it was three 3's. I lost to two pair.

Davo
September 20, 2007, 02:23 AM
A nice .22 boltie that is as accurate and classy as the winchester 52, and an affordible m14 clone.
The .260 boltie in an ultralight and walking varmint configuration is good too.
And the SMLE in many scales and calibers would be cool.
Oh yeah and a mini gun in .22 lr.

JWF III
September 20, 2007, 07:16 PM
2 sub 1/2 moa bolt rifles
1 in .308 that uses M14/M1A1 mags
1 in 5.56 that uses AR mags

Dr.Carbine
September 20, 2007, 07:28 PM
I've always liked the look and feel of the M1 Carbine and I wish there were rifles styled like that, but maybe in 7.62x39 or .223. I like the Mini 14, but again I would have preferred it looking more like an M1 Carbine than an M14. I also like the previous poster's idea of bolt actions that would work with the military type box magazines. It's like the old WW1 trench gun concept. Cool.

gunnie
September 21, 2007, 08:36 PM
attn: PercyShelley

"Gunnie, how exactly will you remove the mandrel from the barrel after it's been pounded around?"

{BLUSH}

uh, well, duh...that could be an ointment in the fly couldn't it?

guess that idea WILL hafta come under the heading of "from the porcelein think tank"!!!

gunnie

Vern Humphrey
September 21, 2007, 08:48 PM
A nice .22 boltie that is as accurate and classy as the winchester 52
Try a Kimber. Mine is an M82, and it has accounted for a box car load of squirrels, and I have won enough at .22 Silhouette to pay for it.

Bobarino
September 21, 2007, 09:44 PM
i want an HK 91/PTR-91 with an ambi charging handle and a bolt hold-open/release. that would be my dream gun.

Bobby

rockstar.esq
September 21, 2007, 10:55 PM
How about a safety that's mounted on the thumb side of the gun! It never ceases to amaze me that right handed bolt actions have safeties mounted on the left side of the action. Yes yes I know you can operate it but it'd be easier if it was on the other side of the action. While I'm on the topic of safeties, consider one that can be operated with the gun in a thumbhole stock, preferably without dismounting the shooting hand. The old Garand / M14 / Mini 14 style works really well and would be a fine starting point.

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