[F4GIB]

Investigation continues. Apparently THP officer standing at open door with his hand on the handle saw the dog in the car and announces it was there but failed to close the door. THP video to be released today. http://www.herald-citizen.com/NF/omf.wnm/herald/news_story.html?[rkey=0024318+[cr=gdn

[sm]

Clicking on link above resulted in 'error -not found"

[Zander]

Local news in Nashville reports that, based on patrol car on-board videotape, it was just three seconds from dog exiting the open door 'til it was slaughtered by the LEO.

The "investigation" concludes that the LEO acted "in accordance with policy"...whatever the heck that is. Yet another CYA pronouncement from the brass.

I feel sorry for my LEO friends who get another black eye every other day from badge-wearers who are so ill-trained and out-of-control that it's alarming to non-LEO citizens.

I see only bad things from this trend...and can't imagine why corrective actions can't be taken. How much of the population has to be alienated before "management" takes corrective action?!?

[F4GIB]

I used the old link, went to <news> then to the <story>. This is the URL that showed up.
http://www.herald-citizen.com/NF/omf.wnm/herald/news_story.html?[rkey=0024318+[cr=gdn


The tape shows one trooper standing on either side of the Smoak vehicle at the doors and shows that one car door is standing open. A trooper standing right beside that door looks in and comments that there is a dog inside. The trooper appears to be holding the car door open.

The Smoaks have said they repeatedly asked the troopers to close the car doors to keep their dogs from getting out on the highway, but the troopers did not do that.

The tape shows the dog Patton (a boxer/bulldog mix) hopping out onto the roadside.

He trots around in a circle and comes back toward Officer Hall, who fires his gun at the animal, killing it instantly. It happens so fast from the time the dog hops out -- within three seconds according to the tape's counter -- that perceiving the threat to the officer may be impossible for the casual viewer.

The video clearly records the handcuffed Smoak family reacting to the killing. Their shocked cries, the sound of their grief can be heard plainly on the tape, as the troopers continue to control the three.

Hummmm. Viewers may find it impossible to perceive the threat.... Hummmm?

I hope one of the Nashville TV stations posts a copy of the videotape. It's not on the THP website.

[Blackhawk]

Uh, oh. Doesn't play well for the CPD officer or the THP officers, does it?

[Blackhawk]

F4GIB,

You can fix that link by moving the ? to the other side of the [/URL] tag. :)

[F4GIB]

Video available here: http://www.newschannel5.com/

Watch the THP officers as they stroll around the car (left side) and scratch their legs (right side). They knew the "high risk" had long disappeared, if it every existed. They had proximity and plenty of time to close the door.

The dog is small (and good too- it sat in the car for several minutes). Too small for a pitbull and certainly no doberman. Mailmen, UPSmen, plumbers, EVERYONE deals with dogs every day WITHOUT shooting them. Why can't policemen? Their daddies could because I don't remember weekly dog shootings (as now) in the 50's or 60's.

[Sindawe]

I just watched the video. Its apparent to me that the cops were not overly stressed about the situation, walking about in a relaxed manner, and from what I can see looking in the car before the hapless canine comes out to see what going on. And even with the poor quality video from Real Player, I can tell that it was a Bulldog, NOT a Pitbull. Dog runs out, and w/in seconds the cop is shooting the dog. Looks to me like a trigger happy cop. Net Result: Another black eye for Law Enforcement.

[Gordon]

Well this COULD be the $1000000 dog!:neener:

[Blackhawk]

Definitely bad news for the THP and CPD public relations folks. This pig isn't going to get prettier no matter how much lipstick they slop on it or how many fancy ribbons they gussy it up with.

Looks like some LEOs are going to be hung out to dry. Some TN taxpayer money will be moving east....

[CZ-75]

Definitely bad news for the THP and CPD public relations folks. This pig isn't going to get prettier no matter how much lipstick they slop on it or how many fancy ribbons they gussy it up with.


No offense, but weren't you the one who made a big deal out of "troubling" anti-LEO attitudes in the original thread???

Those cops just COULDN'T be trigger happy JBTs, could they?



I remember talking to an older officer once whose opinion of current LE hiring procedures was "hire the handicapped."

If standards are going down, and I assume they are, anecdotally, from the frequency of untoward consequences that befall innocent civilian victims from derelict LE officers and departmental procedures, then I expect things to only get worse.

In addition to this general miasma of incompetence, I seem to hear about officers commiting obviously criminal acts in my neck of the woods with alarming frequency (in the past year; e.g., sodomy, rape, murder, conspiracy, battery, grand and petty theft, spousal abuse, trafficing in a controlled substance, corruption/bribery, election fraud, illegal records searches).

Care to wonder why some of us have so-called "anti-LEO" attitudes?

[Edward429451]

:rolleyes: :( :fire:

[Mustang]

Lets see if the Department's pedals work in reverse as quickly as they moved forward to defend these "procedure following" officers.

[MitchSchaft]

CZ, I do believe that is a southern figure of speech and he was not calling the cop a pig. I'm guessing you're from up North :scrutiny: .

[CZ-75]

CZ, I do believe that is a southern figure of speech and he was not calling the cop a pig. I'm guessing you're from up North .

I am, though I live further down South than you do now.

Point was why the sudden change of heart towards LEOs from the other thread. The word "pig" is irrelevant and never interpreted to be more than a colloquialism.

[Cal4D4]

Videotape sure takes the "he said, she said" outta the public protest versus police account stuff. Those car mounted cameras are cutting both ways. We got to improve public perception of police conduct. Look at the hit counts on any "no knock warrant" or doggy murder type threads. At least some of the population is uneasy with this stuff. It only took 10% discontent with Brit rule to fire off the 1776 rebellion. Do you guys really want to be seen as an occupying force or as community members keeping the peace?

[CZ-75]

We got to improve public perception of police conduct.

I asked a G-man and some local LEOs at the range once why they didn't do everything they could to get the bad ones off the force, but they mentioned that it could backfire and you'd be w/o backup from there on. Serpico Syndrome it should be called. The main reason why nothing will chage until some citizens take to using appropriate force to defend themselve from those criminals who also wear a badge. Don't expect things to go smoothly for those citizens standing up for themselves, though.

:banghead: :cuss:

[Sindawe]

for such blatent abuse of postion and authrority. I think we all know what our immedeate reaction would be were we in the Smoaks position. I'm thinking of long term, what others in the community can do. Ruled out violent retaliation, pranks on cops home/possesions, etc.

What DOES some to mind is simple. Shun the 'officers' involved, the families & the Depts until the 'officers' are dismissed from duty (fired) w/no severence. Nobody does buisness with 'em. No selling, no buying, 'Your money is no good here' no nothing. Don't talk to 'em, don't accept calls, refuse letters and email, if you see them on the street, ignore them utterly.

Thoughts on this?

[jmbg29]

Well, Eric Hall sure showed us one way to go from hero to zero in the time it takes to blink.

For all of the folks on this board that said that the cops were "under the stress of a felony stop", tell me, did that insane clown posse look like anything other than a bunch of lackidasical Bozos?

I guess it's just a good thing there weren't any toddlers in the car. They'd be in a box by now.
:fire: :cuss: :fire:

[Randy63]

If that PIG shot my dog I'm afraid I would wind up in prison.

It's no wonder why so many law abiding people have a very low opinion of LEO's

I don't think of police as helpful public servants. I think of them as a bunch of out of control thugs.

K22

[schild]

Taken right from ATF tactics, 1st they shoot your dog!

[2dogs]

My work computer won't let me view the video- I'll have to wait until I get to my home computer- but from the sound of it, this is one pathetic display of police incompetence.

A freakin' BULLDOG for chrissakes! If it was a bulldog , cop could have used the shotgun as a lever to flip the dog over and then rolled him around on the ground before handcuffing it. Shooting it!? Pathetic.

No offense to LEO's, but cops (at least here) are getting dumber every day. We had one story here about a cop who got lost in her squad car driving a prisoner from the police station to prison- 5 miles- for 7 hours!!!! She was so lost she drove over a bridge from PA into Trenton NJ and didn't know where she was!!:what: This is not a joke. And it is only one example, not an atypical fluke.

Cop who shot dog- fire his @ss.:fire:

[JMLV]

he did to that bulldog - a shotgun blast to the head!
but a 30 caliber bullet will suffice - anybody know where lon honeruchi is these days? I hear he freelance these days.

[Diesle]

THP Dog Shooting (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/09/police.kill.dog/index.html)

And, as bonus, look for the vote on the cnn home page.

Diesle

[KMKeller]

Is it just me, or was officer Hall screaming like a frightened child before he shot the dog?

[Greg L]

Link to the poll:
http://www.cnn.com/

Poll results:
Yes 21% 1082 votes
No 79% 4190 votes
Total: 5272 votes

Greg

[ojibweindian]

Yet another incident that re-enforces my severe distrust of almost everyone with authoratative positions.

[TallPine]

Whatever happened to "Hi doggie ... nice doggie ... easy doggie ... that's a good boy ..."

Ever notice that mail "men" and meter readers don't have to carry shotguns with them ?

What would this cop had done if a two-year old in a tantrum threw a pacifier at him - blow him away with a shotgun????

[ZekeLuvs1911]

What a bunch of ignoranus moronic LEO's. Not all LEO are like these but what a bunch of winners we got there.

[TheeBadOne]

Post the link to the video

[buzz_knox]

If I remember the video correctly (I can't get it to run to work on my computer either), the dog wasn't in an aggressive posture, as evidenced by the upraised tail and the postion of the head and ears. It wasn't looking for a fight but was probably trying to get around the cop to its owners.

[ZekeLuvs1911]

What a group of lame brain officers we got there! I never trusted the police force very much anyway but I respect what they do. Now, my level of trust and respect has gone the way of the Andrea Dora and Titanic.

[riverdog]

Sorry to disagree, but the video doesn't show what Officer Hall saw, much different perspective and he didn't have the option of replaying the tape. The major screw-up was made when they didn't contain the situation by simply closing the door as requested. That would have been the "common sense" approach.

110 MPH in a Taurus wagon? :rolleyes:

[J Miller]

There are good cops, and there are bad cops.

But lately, (the last 10 years or so) it seems that they have gone out of control. There is not one iota of restraint on police officers at all. They can kill people, or animals, and do just about anything they want without being held responsible for what they do.
I fear LEO's a whole lot more than I fear criminals. And for just reason. I have no defence agains them.
If a citizen is accused of anything by a cop, he / she will be charged in criminal court. If they arn't killed, or have their fingers cut off, or beaten to a bloody pulp first. When they are exonerated they have no recourse against the cops other than a civil suit. Even if they win, it doesn't effect the cops one damn bit.
Many of the instances reported recently of police abuse of power, if done by a citizen would land them in prison. But a cop is almost never charged, or dicsiplined. They as instruments of our government are out of control. Just like our government.

And it is getting worse. More and more instances are making major media now. But it is only the tip of the iceburg.

We as citizens have more to fear from the uncontroled suedo military LEO's in this country, than we do from the criminals element in our society.

[.45TCB]

There's a longer version of the video available here (www.tennessean.com). Click on the link that says "full clip".

[TheeBadOne]

The full video worked for me, very poor quality, must be due to crunching it down for the net. Looks like the dog ran out to the right then made a fast bee line right to the officer with the shot gun who shot the dog at litteraly point blank range (looked almost like a contact shot). What was the dogs intent? It came on him very fast, could it have wanted to bite him? Don't know. Wish the audio was a little better too. Perhaps the dog was trained to play/attack a flashlight at home like one article quoted. In that case the dog rushing the flashlight/shotgun aggressivly makes sense, except to the cop who wouldn't know that. Bad for all involved.

[Pendragon]

Sickening.

They could have closed the car door once everyone was secured.

I hope they get a good settlement. I hope officer puppy shooter gets the boot.

[Russ]

If I were the Smoaks, litigation just became my full time profession. The Cop should go to jail for animal cruelty also. What a jerk. Probably a law against letting the retarded wear police uniforms and carrry guns too they could go after him on too. A dog of that type would probably have tried to lick him to death.

[Betty]

Merging this thread with existing thread in L&P.....

[hso]

And the folks from SC couldn't have just closed their car doors when they exited the car to keep their dogs off the road for what reason?

Look, I'm not going to excuse the leo's here for what happened, but the Knoxville paper said the dog was a pit mix breed, that it jumped out of the car with it's tail wagging initially and stopped wagging it's tail when it came straight at the leo, and the leo waited until the animal was almost at contact before he fired. While the family said the animal was a loveable "Scooby Do" we need to remember that loveable "Scooby Do" can do some serious damage when he thinks he's protecting his family. So what's the LEO to do, wait until Scooby locks onto his leg or weapon arm?

http://knoxnews.com/kns/local_news/article/0,1406,KNS_347_1660897,00.html

[Daniel T]

And the folks from SC couldn't have just closed their car doors when they exited the car to keep their dogs off the road for what reason?


No, the couldn't have. Not without ending up like their dog anyhow.

[TheeBadOne]

Demise, not true at all. Look how many times the occupants of the car disobeyed commands. How many times did they drop their hands down, turn around, etc, no shots fired. I think one of them closing the door would have been no big deal. I know it's an emotional issue, but lets be realistic here.

[F4GIB]

>> TheeBadOne posted <<
"Looks like the dog ran out to the right then made a fast bee line right to the officer with the shot gun who shot the dog at litteraly point blank range (looked almost like a contact shot). What was the dogs intent? "

Did you see where the family was? The dog jumped out of the car and his momentum carried him to the right, THEN HE SAW MOMMY, and ran straight for her. Unfortunately Officer Hall was standing there.

This is what bother us civilians - Meter readers, postmen, and every unamed person in America deals with dogs WITHOUT shooting them. Is it the fact that the officer has a gun that makes him shoot first? UPSmen don't. And, if some police officers(seems like many) are so willing to shoot dogs, should we worry shooting will become the firct choice with people too? Didn't this officer have his steel toed boots on? I can think of a dozen ways to deal with a DOG without shooting it (after all, I have to, I have no gun).

The big problem here is that incidents like this destroy the public's sense that they can safely interact with the police. Disaster shouldn't be the result of complying with the officer's commands.

Saying the family could have closed the door is BS. If Mr. Smoak had reached for the door or made any other "furtive" movement, you'd be defending his being struck, shot, or whatever. He did ask them to take action but they ignored him. He's lucky he didn't get injured for "mouthing off."

"Ve vere yust followink procedures." That ain't good enough. Maybe it passes when the victim is a scumbag. But every once in a while along comes innocent, some videotape, and ... .

[riverdog]

I think one of them closing the door would have been no big deal. I agree, one of the LEOs could easily have closed the door and contained the dogs. This was totally preventable and unnecessary.

[Elmer Snerd]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30324

http://www.putnampit.com/pithome.htm

[Zander]

Has anyone read or heard that the THP requested backup on the felony stop?

Or did Officer Goober just show up, shotgun in hand, because he was bored?

Since the THP has an HQ in Cookeville just off I-40, seems they would have had all they needed to effect the stop without out-of-control wannabes getting in the way.

[TheeBadOne]

Did you see where the family was? The dog jumped out of the car and his momentum carried him to the right, THEN HE SAW MOMMY, and ran straight for her. Unfortunately Officer Hall was standing there.

I supose the aggressive barking and growling heard on the tape was for mommy too?

Saying the family could have closed the door is BS. If Mr. Smoak had reached for the door or made any other "furtive" movement, you'd be defending his being struck, shot, or whatever.

Really? How many times on the tape did he disobey commands? LOTS, and he wasn't shot. Neither were the others.

[triggertime]

As buzz_knox has already noted, the dog came out of the car wagging its tail and looking for its owners. It was not displaying an aggressive posture.

Was the shooting justified? Not in my eyes. The dog was wagging its tail, folks. If it had been growling, barking and dripping saliva from its mouth, then maybe it would have been a different story.

Double tapping a non-aggressive friendly dog with a 12 gauge shotgun at pointblank range is not necessary or justified regardless if it was a felony stop or not.

As I see it, Officer Hall is a loose cannon that should kicked off the force immediately before he accidentally shoots someone.

Before you beg to differ, think about this. What if you were pulled over by this exact same mentally challenged cop and he finds out you have a carry permit and that you're armed. You make a sudden move for your proof of insurance and he draws and fires killing you where you sit.

That wouldn't be too different from what you saw in the video, would it?

[TheeBadOne]

http://www.pink-floyd.org/barrett/discography/apples.gif

[triggertime]

"I supose the aggressive barking and growling heard on the tape was for mommy too?"

The aggressive barking and growling was probably from the K-9 unit present for the supposed felony stop and not from the owners dog. :rolleyes:

[DeltaElite]

All this heartache, because they didn't shut a door. :(

As I have said in another thread, aggressive dogs get shot.
That is the training and my mindset.
However it didn't have to happen, if the door had been shut as requested by the folks in custody.

[ojibweindian]

TheeBadOne

All of this crap because someone left a wallet on the hood of his car. Doggie gets wasted, kids become basket cases, everyone gets to experience life as a felon because of a wallet that flies off the roof of a car.

This whole thing, the cops involved, all of it is serious BRAVO SIERRA!

[DeltaElite]

Yanno, I am still not seeing why a "felony stop" was done at all.
Oh well, that's why I don't trust cops, even though I am one.

[mjustice]

Can anyone find out what the TSP was told about these folks? I don't see how one civilian lady playing detective and calling 911 can lead up to a felony stop with no other corroborating information.

MJ

[J Miller]

OK, I said my piece on the other thread before it was merged with this one. I stand by my comments.

But I have some questions.

Was the family, or any member of it charged with anything? How did a wallet that was left on the roof of a car lead to a felony stop?

I have read the CNN article linked to here, but in the mood I'm in today, (not because of this thread), I don't want to watch a dog get blasted. And these questions haven't been answered. Unless I just missed them.

As for the family not obeying orders from the LEO's, I don't find this surprising. Many people will not simply turn timid when faced with a situation like this. They will attempt to retain a bit of control over themselves and their possesions. Even if it is an exercise in futility.

[Daniel T]

Demise, not true at all. Look how many times the occupants of the car disobeyed commands. How many times did they drop their hands down, turn around, etc, no shots fired. I think one of them closing the door would have been no big deal. I know it's an emotional issue, but lets be realistic here.

Sorry TheeBadOne, but I disagree. Moving your head or hands is no where near as threatening as manipulating an inanimate object is. Actually, realistically, I think that if they had tried to close the door, they would have been assaulted by a cop, but probably not shot. Of course, then someone might really have been attacked by one of the dogs.

Edited-spelling

[2nd Amendment]

At this point what baffles me is that there is still someone seeking to defend the officers. I haven't seen a key thing mentioned in this: Even if the dog were attacking this justifies shooting that runky-dink thing? I've pulled brawling pitbulls apart before(as recently as last week) and remained unscathed. How much "danger" would have been involved in giving this mutt a kick as opposed to discharging a weapon on a busy highway in close proximity to a fair sized group of people?

Absolutely freaking amazing.

[Tim Burke]

I find it amazing that people want to blame the Smoaks for not closing their car doors, when all they did was follow directions. Whether or not they would have been shot for closing the car door, given how it turned out, I have no difficulty in believing that they thought they would be shot if they made an unauthorized move.

[Kevlarman]

Why look, it's "Officer" Hall's contact info, taken direct from the Cookeville website:

Officer Eric Hall
931-520-5318
ehall@cookeville-tn.org

Please, don't abuse this info. :rolleyes:

[TheeBadOne]

Didn't this officer have his steel toed boots on? I can think of a dozen ways to deal with a DOG without shooting it

This is laughable to the point of being ludicrous


Kwai Chang Caine lives again...:rolleyes:

[rock jock]

This is laughable to the point of being ludicrous
Why is it laughable? I have defended myself against aggressive neighborhood mutts with a swift kick as I am sure many others have also.

[Frohickey]

A woman motorist called the Highway Patrol on a cell phone to report "a large amount of money" apparently being thrown from the vehicle, which she said was traveling at about 110 miles per hour, according to a transcript of the call released Wednesday. She described the vehicle and gave its license number.

After the initial call at 4:52 p.m. CST, a "be on the lookout" alert was sent out for the vehicle and, shortly afterwards, dispatcher Shannon Pickard in Nashville sent a teletype message to all Middle Tennessee law enforcement offices asking whether there had been any robberies with a large sum of money taken.

Dispatcher Timothy McHood in the Highway Patrol's Cookeville office, after seeing the teletype, put out another alert saying the vehicle was "possibly involved" in a robbery.

Large amount of money, thrown from vehicle, 110MPH, vehicle and license number... from that, where did Dispatcher Timothy McHood from the THP Cookeville office get the possibly involved in a robbery? All of this is from a very unfortunate chain of events where a single report just kept growing and growing.

Woman on cell phone calls about money, 110MPH and vehicle.
Dispatcher A sends out BOLO for the vehicle and asks for robberies with large sum of money.
Dispatcher B sends out alert saying vehicle is possibly involved in robbery.

Dispatcher B and Cop with shotgun should be reprimanded.

[Russ]

I understood it to be a bulldog/boxer mix, not a pit mix. Anyone with a clue about dogs would know that a bulldog boxer mix was on his way to lick the officer to death. This LEO should lose his job and never be allowed to own a gun again since he doesn't know when to use it. Had the owners tried to shut the doors, he probably would have shot them. I smell millions here!