LR Target shooting, 300-1000 yards. Beginner, never shot anything more than .22 pistols and a 10/22 rifle. Already settled on .308
Give me your input. Remember $1500 Total Budget, including Mount and rings.
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September 15, 2007, 01:50 PM
Mossberg 100 ATR , Remington 700, CZ 750, FN PBR.
September 15, 2007, 01:51 PM
Already decided on .308 huh?....ok then first you need to go to a range and shoot a .308 rifle. I am a beginner too and before a few weeks ago I had never shot anything above a .22. I went to the range and found somone shooting a .30-06 and he let me shoot it 3 times. I now have a differnt perspective for all centerfire rifles. Im not saying it was a bad experiance....I just understand why some people want a good recoil pad on their rifles.:D
Other than that you should be able to get a decent rifle and maybe a few boxes of ammo for $1500...lol:)
September 15, 2007, 01:56 PM
Howa 1500 Varmint (hvy barrel) .308 - $600
Harris Self Leveling Bipod - $100
Leuopold Scope - $700
Black Hills Long Range Ammo - $100
I do belive this would give you quite the setup. It's one I've seen, and I hope to put together in the next year.
September 15, 2007, 01:59 PM
cz, special models, 550. or 750 or UHR rifles. they will come with a 1000 yds guarantee, and will come complete with scope allready zero'd.
But if you want money left over, to buy lots of ammo, then put together a Savage for a 1000. , and then buy 500 . worth of bullets, plus throw in a Wallyworld or Academy bipod.
September 15, 2007, 02:00 PM
by the way, a good longe range scope , is the Super sniper series, good mildot ranging scope for under 400.
September 15, 2007, 02:06 PM
September 15, 2007, 02:09 PM
Tikka Varmint, If you can find a master sporter at a reasonable price I'd jump on that.
Savage BVSS or maybe a LP
CZ Kevlar Varmint
CDNN had some heavy barreled Steyrs in 308 for 600ish IIRC. Probably gone by now, but that would be nice.
I like Warne
Bushnell Elite 4200
September 15, 2007, 02:13 PM
Listen to my new setup(got it thursday)
Remington 700LTR with fluted bull barrel
HS Precision free floating stock
tactical rubber sling
Burris Extreme Tactical 3x12
Federal Gold Match .308
and that equals a 1/2moa rifle
September 15, 2007, 02:42 PM
If you're looking for a bolt action rifle I'd get a Remington 700 series rifle then the best scope you can afford with the left over cash. I use a Remington 700 CDL in .30-06, very similar to the .308 with a Bushnell 3200 series 3-9x40 scope.
It will be with in your budget and very accurate and reliable.
September 15, 2007, 02:52 PM
Don't do it, guns are addicting. The best thing to do is send me the money so you aren't tempted!!
I agree on the Remington 700, either .30-06 or .270 would be MY choice. Very accurate out of the box, wood stock doesn't have killer recoil, I don't know about the composite stock, so I can't say.
Good luck and post pics when you get the setup!!
September 15, 2007, 02:55 PM
Slap a Super Sniper on a Savage 10FP. Should come to about a $1000 and be sub-moa capable.
Just a thought, the Savage tacticool rifles in .223 have a fast twist barrel ideal for heavier long-range target boolits. .223 produces less recoil and is cheaper to shoot, both of which behoove a beginner.
September 15, 2007, 06:37 PM
CDNN Sports has FNA1 package rifles on sale for under $1500!!! You'll need to download the current sale flier.
+1 for the sniper central entry level package too.
A Savage 10FP or Rem 700 will work.
My entry level LR Rifle is a Mossberg ATR in 30-06 you can get it in 308 too. Not a heavy Barrel but it shoots MOA at 100 so far...we'll see about longer ranges soon! On your budget that would leave me $1150 for ammo to get good. Here it is:
Savage 10FP Tactical $525
TPS 20 MOA picatinny rail $67
TPS 30mm Rings $86
USO ST-10S $895
Add $100 for a good trigger.
September 15, 2007, 06:52 PM
Gun Tech makes some good suggestions. I like the SuperSniper as a bare bones long range optic.
Heres what I did.
September 15, 2007, 07:29 PM
The new Remington 798 is impressive,and you'll have enough money left over for a good Leupold scope and ammo and probably still not spend 1500 bucks
Jack A. Sol
September 15, 2007, 07:43 PM
savage and burris tactical.
September 15, 2007, 08:18 PM
The Howas isn't a bad choice, I'd consider the Savage Model 12 Varmint or the 10FP and the CZ 550 Varmint (I think the 750 previously mentioned is around $1800).
The Savages have the accutrigger and absolutley do not need a trigger job. The CZ 550 has a set trigger and again would not need a trigger job. Both can be had for under $600-700.
For a scope a Bushnell EuroDiamond 3-12 x 50 (30mm Tube) or Black Diamond 4-16 (Both more or less $600), even the Fullfield II in 4.5-14 ($375 or so). The Burris 4200's are also good scopes and the 3200 series are about the same quality as the FFII's. That should leave plenty for a 20 moa base, set of rings, and a bipod.
Rmember that if you are going past 600 yards you really want a 24" barrel minimum, 25-28" is better. If not shooting past 600 then you don't need the 20 moa base, just a standard will do.
September 15, 2007, 08:28 PM
I have to agree with Anthony, shoot a .308 first, it will take many rounds to forget the recoil and fully concentrate on the target, and a .308 is hard to ignore. 1000 yrds?? hard shot for anybody, you are trying to go from a crawl to full flight, you may be happier with a 22-250, .223, .243, all can shoot well to 300-400 yrds, and they are pleasant to shoot round after round.
September 15, 2007, 09:46 PM
A .308 doesn't "kick" that bad out of a lightweight hunting rifle, so I would imagine that out of a heavier target gun that recoil would be fine. A 30-06 kicks more out of a heavier gun of mine, than the .308 does, so if you plan on getting a 30-06, I would make sure you have a nice recoil pad on it, and a heavier gun.
Anyway, I would get a remington 700. I don't know about the savage's because I have not owned them, but many people love them for long range shooting, so a savage would probably be a good choice too.
September 16, 2007, 12:35 AM
I have to admit I don't own any Savages myself, but I've shot tactical matches along with enough savage shooters to know they are great shooters. Another feature I have always admired is the relative ease of changing barrekls on the savage.
Frankly, I haven't been too impressed with the accutrigger. It's better than the old Savage trigger, but doesn't compare well to a tuned Remington 700, or any of the numerous after-market match triggers. It's all what you are used to. There are several drop in after-market triggers for between $100-150 - RifleBasix, Timney, etc. Bell and carlson also has a very nice drop in stock for those who balk at the cost for an HS precision or McMillan
Bell and Carlson Medalist:
September 16, 2007, 12:40 AM
Take a look here:
September 16, 2007, 12:42 AM
A 308, loaded with light bullets from a heavy rifle is about as gentle as it comes while still being able to feel the recoil.
I like to use the 155gn Lapua Scenars for 1000 yard, as they have the same BC as the 175gn SMK and can be driven much faster and with less recoil.
September 16, 2007, 10:55 AM
If you have little experience, I highly suggest that you consider getting to an Appleseed shoot. Take your 22, (if it is a ruger 10/22, put some Tech-Sights on it) and get some instruction on fundamental, accurate rifle shooting (and some interesting American history). You will learn the skills needed to get you out to 500+ yards with your new rifle, and that will be a huge savings in ammo and wasted time.
Keep in mind that most folks can easily learn the skills to shoot out to 500 yards or so, but beyond 600, it gets pretty technical in a hurry. While the 308 will get to 1000 yards and still be impressive when it gets there, it takes much more than an accurate rifle to get it there.
Get to an Appleseed ( http://www.appleseedinfo.org ) and get yourself up to speed out to 500 yards, then work on learning to go beyond.
My personal choice of 308 is the M1a, as it is more than capable out to 500+ yards and that is fine with me. There are many here that have better input on bolt guns, but I suspect at this point, you might consider something less expensive, and shoot it out, before investing in a more costly rifle. Just my 2c. You can not spend enough on a rifle to make up for lack of experience and knowledge. You are going to send a bunch of ammo down range to learn to shoot out past 600 yards, most any bolt gun should give you the accuracy to learn with. Once you "out shoot" your rifle, sell/trade for more quality if you wish.
September 16, 2007, 11:27 AM
Shooting .308 150 gr. Core-Lokts out of my stock 12FV I found it to be uncomfortable. It compared to a 12gauge shooting 00 for me. I was bruised after shooting 20 rounds. I weigh 225lbs so I'm not real bony. I put a McM a3 stock on it and can now shoot 100+ rounds with no problem. That tupperware stock I found was just *****. My current setup now weighs 13.4lbs.
So like I have said before on many of boards plan on replacing the stock and just get the FV with the 26" barrel here (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/78360) you go 456 shipped they also have the Bushnell Tactical (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/41984)for 530 add TPS 20 MOA picatinny rail $67
TPS 30mm Rings $86 (I have never used them but hear they are good to go)thats $1139 plus shipping that leaves over $300 for a stock ( I paid $387 shipped for my A3 but he is out so keep your eyes open and you can find a deal).
After reading your post on here and other forums it seems you are set on the Savage so flip a coin and buy one then you can put it all together as you as you get more money. You dont need to change the stock or add a bipod to start putting rounds down range. You can add these things in a year or two or whenever finances permit.
Good luck and make a decision already. Let us know how it shoots when you get it.
The Annoyed Man
September 16, 2007, 02:40 PM
Remington 700 VSF in .308 - $831.00
Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x50mm - $530.00
Leupold bases, rings, flip-open end caps - $125.00
Total expenditure - $1,486.00
Shoots like a dream AND is classy looking.
Yes, this is a sort of Ford/Chevy debate, but in one case, you're getting cloth seats, and in the other, leather seats. Both function just fine, but one is nicer than the other. The 700 has the leather seats.
September 16, 2007, 04:35 PM
Page 35 of CDNN's current catalog
On sale for $999
TIKKA T3 TACTICAL
20” FLUTED HEAVY BARREL
308 BOLT ACTION
BLACK SYNTHETIC VARMINT STYLE STOCK
ADJUSTABLE CHEEKPIECE•SWIVEL STUDS
NON-REFLECTIVE BLACK PHOSPHATE FINISH
5RD DROP FREE DETACHABLE MAGAZINE
BUILT-IN PICATINNY STYLE SCOPE RAIL
FACTORY TESTED 1" GROUP @ 100YDS
1 IN 11” BARREL TWIST
T3 Tactical $999 +shipping and transfer (no tax though)
Warne Rings $30
Weaver Grandsalm 6-20x40 from Natchezss $299
Once you pay shipping etc. should still come in under $1500
That rifle would be ready to rock and roll. No need for modifications. Remington made a nice rifle 20 years ago. They've been slipping for years now.
September 16, 2007, 05:29 PM
Tikkas are nice, but I don't want to pay $60 (if you can find one) for a cheap plastic magazine. And not much in the way of after-market parts.
September 16, 2007, 07:20 PM
The 20" barrel on that Tikka is not going to be of much use at the longer ranges he is talking about.
September 16, 2007, 09:30 PM
I shoot a 20 inch 40x and make 1000 yards easily. Depends on the load and the bullet. I can get 2650 fps from 155gn Lapua Scenar, 2520 and WW brass, and they have a BC of 0.508, the same as the LR standard 175gn SMK. They are still supersonic at 1200 yards at Amy metro.
I do sometime miss the 7.5 inches I chopped off the barrel, but the rifle is lighter and easier to manage in tactical matches.
A 20 inch barrel will easily get you to 1000 yards if you feed it right.
September 16, 2007, 09:46 PM
You might consider something chambered in one of the modern 6.5 mm rounds. 6.5mm round has great sectional density and ballistic coeffiecent and is proving to be winning the 1000 yrd. competitions, plus it has relatively mild recoil. pretty much best of all worlds.
September 16, 2007, 10:03 PM
Here is my best advice give up the 1000 yard dream for now. Go out to a local range and view a service rifle match. Then if it is something you are interested in buy yourself a quality AR and shoot service rifle for a few seasons. Service rifle is the best start up for target shooting. 1000 yard target shooting is a very specialized event that many factors play in to. If you work your way up through the service rifle ranks. They offer plenty of competition are relatively cheap to shoot (nothing target is cheap) and are a great fundamental builder. Just my two cents.
September 16, 2007, 11:13 PM
Personally, I like long range tactical (sniper) shoots. I find shooting unusual targets at unknown distance both challenging and better training for hunting. Shooting at a bullseye at 600 yards isn't hard compared to ringing a 10 inch gong that is out there some distance. Tactical matches also tend to be held in interesting terrain with unpredictable shooting positions. You shoot anything from 100 yards to 1000+. If you aren't obsessed with winning you can have a lot of fun, and learn a lot that will be useful hunting. Taget shooting porepares you for...more target shooting.
Your's truly waiting to shoot. I'm in the jeans with the green hat in the center.
Rifle = Swiss K31 $149.95.
Scope = Bushnell 4 x 12 Banner $60.00 E-bay.
rings & mount = $65.00 E-bay.
This rifle shoots as good or better than any brand new remchester out there. Save yourself alot of money and get a k31 set up like I did, you wont regret it.
September 16, 2007, 11:36 PM
Yes, Tod, but how do you learn to do all that neatokewl stuff? Without knowing how to get hits in the first place?
I put that in the same category as the people who want to take up Sporting Clays with little shotgun background as is available from Skeet and Trap, or IPSC with little pistol background as is available from NRA. If you don't know the basics, the advanced stuff is a lot harder. And the basics are done with known distance shooting. I think the Army has lost a lot of marksmanship by jumping into popup ranges too soon. Maybe not the Marines.
September 17, 2007, 12:00 AM
OK, you got me there. Much time spent on the target range.
From the sound of it, the person in question wants to hunt, and do some 1000 yard shooting. I didn't get the impression he wats to be a world class competitor.
To have a reasonable chance of ringing steel at 1K, you have to know the fundamentals, have a decent understanding of ballistics and know how to read wind. The latter is the one I find hardest.
But there is something infinitely satisfying about pulling the trigger and hear that clang two seconds after you fired.
BTW, the army went to popups to condition troops to shoot at people - operant conditioning. Teaching target shooting doesn't help human beings overcome their reluctance to put bullets in to other human beings. Nor does target shooting prepare one for the rigors of combat shooting, which is quite unlike sitting at the range throwing lead at bullseyes. Actual studies have shown that so called 'aimed fire' delivered by expert shots has no significant improvement over unaimed fire. It's the dirty little secret of modern warfare. Read "Operational requirements for an infantry hand weapon" buy Norman Hitchman.
September 17, 2007, 12:07 AM
I went back and read over this thread, thanks to Jim's comments. The crux of his post was 'what rifle for $1500' that would be suitable for hunting and shooting 1000 yards.
The short answer is 'yes, you can put together such a rifle' and you don't need to spend thousands and thousands. However, a $1500 package ( rifle scope, mounts) is not going to be world class, and allow you to compete at the highest level.
As Jim and others have noted, to expect to do reasonably well with any of the recommended rifles (are any firearm) you will need to master the fundementals and practice, practice, practice. Formal target shooting is one way to polish your technique - but not the only way.
I certainly wouldn't spend a ton of money until you know exactly what you want. Take this first rifle and shoot the lands out of it. By the time you worn out you first barrel, particularly if you are shooting with others, you should have a much better idea of what you want or need in a rifle.
Good luck, and let us know what you decide.
September 17, 2007, 12:10 AM
I think everybody's wearing a green hat in that picture.
308 Doesn't loose much with a 20" barrel. Below 20" it does.
The mags may be plastic, but they work just fine and have proven durable so far. I will agree that the price is outrageous though. Should be $20 or less. Just because Remington's detachable mags were crap doesn't mean everybody else's are as well.
September 17, 2007, 01:16 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Savage F/TR in 223, but that wouldn't be too good to haul around hunting. So Savage Model 12 in 223, 1-7 twist. Probably stretching to 1000, unlike the 308. Well.......start with a Model 12 like this, and switch the barrel out to a Shilen yourself someday in a bigger caliber. It will cost you about $400 and 30 minutes to do the barrel swap. Try that with a Remchester.
September 17, 2007, 01:22 AM
Atblis, I came so close to buying a Tikka Tactical.
I was quite impressed by the trigger, and the weight. This killer was when I asked about spare magazines.
"$60, if you can get them"
It looks like they are more available now. However, the other factor is that I tend to personalize all my rifles. I have yet to find one that was perfect out of the box, at least for my. I am about as picky as they come, and want things to be the way I want them. It's a character flaw, but there it is. BNo real after-market for the Tikka.
In terms of the poster, the Tikka wouldn't leave much for glass, and glass is important at 1000 yards. You can usually upgrade a rifle later, but you have to replace the scope if you want to upgrade. That's not an option with the Tikka.
With a Remington, Savage or FN, you can always upgrade the stock, barrel, trigger, etc to upgrade the rifle. Not much you can do with the Tikka. You buy the full meal deal from the get go. If that's not what you want later, you have to sell it and try again.
September 17, 2007, 03:45 AM
Savage 10fp w/accutrigger= $500
Warne rings and base= $175/or less
Super Sniper scope = $300
Stockade Mule Deer or B&C Metalist stock = $275/$210
WOW!!!!!!!! $1200 and it won`t need a gunsmith to do a trigger job, tune, time, or tweek.
Just think, $300 in ammo. And shoot with the best of them.
How do I know, I have the same set-up. Sav 12/.223 Stockade M/D and Bushnell 6-24x40s on one Savage, Sav 10/.308 B&C Metalist and SS10x42 on the other. Why change the bbl on one of most accurate out of the box rifles.
September 17, 2007, 01:35 PM
What makes a set of rings so expensive? Couple hoops of metal and some screws... 175 bucks?
Obviously, there's more to it than I understand... enlighten me.
September 17, 2007, 02:30 PM
What makes a set of rings so expensive? Couple hoops of metal and some screws... 175 bucks?
If you ever fastroping out of a helicopter and drop your rifle on concrete, you'll be glad you had them. Otherwise......you can impress the guy next to you at the range.......I mean, after a point, you're getting performancce that is entirely unmeasurable, and subjective. IMHO.
September 17, 2007, 02:50 PM
I have destroyed some cheap rings before. It wasn't a big deal when my mosin lost zero every other shot, compared to when my friend went cheap and they broke and dropped a Swarovski scope off of his Steyr.
September 17, 2007, 04:18 PM
I wasn't trying to imply that you need to go cheap.
September 17, 2007, 04:53 PM
For your budget, check out Savage Arms & Howa.
September 17, 2007, 09:39 PM
I second this opinion:
Take this first rifle and shoot the lands out of it. By the time you worn out you first barrel, particularly if you are shooting with others, you should have a much better idea of what you want or need in a rifle.
But quicktime is right about practicing the fundamentals. I don't have a place to shoot that far, but I am a fairly accomplished pistol shooter--and there is nothing like random targets and the "clink" of steel. But there is also nothing like holding your breath as your front sight settles in under a black bull (over and over) to make you good at the other one. Learning control is hard. Using it is fun. It's all fun, really.
And you don't have to compete at all to train yourself, although competition is fun. The part of competition that makes you good is the practice you do by yourself (over and over) to get ready, anyway. But you have to study or shoot with others to find out how to practice.
Back on topic: when I buy a new rifle, it will be in one of the 6.5's, I think, but you'll no doubt get more for your money buying a ready-made "varmint" or "tactical" version of something in .308. You will have to train yourself to deal with a little more recoil and the trajectory won't be as flat, but when staring out, getting started at all is more important than exactly how (which is what GunTech was saying, I think).
September 19, 2007, 12:33 AM
You could probably get a rem 700 and one of these Kahles 6x for under 1500.
So where are you headed? You post alot, Im curious to see what research youve done.
September 20, 2007, 06:29 AM
This is what I have. Remington Sendero 700 7mag with 8x32 Burris Signature on .020 offset Burris Zee rings. You'll most probably need the offset to get enough adjustment range and the Zee rings are easy and cost effective. Stock is factory HS Precision.
There's enough weight that the recoil is quite acceptable. Whole thing came in under $1,500 when I got it a few years ago.