[ShaiVong]

I have scoured the board, and gotten alot of good advice from Dave McC, who is the most knowledgable and agreeable shotgunner I have ever had the privilage to absorb information from, like honey from a small mouthed bottle. :D

I'm 85% set on getting an 870 (handled an 870 and moss 500, and liked the 870 more). The one wrench in my gears is the Nova.

I like the look of the Nova, the ghost rings on the special purpose, and the mercury recoil reducers. These are things I would like on an 870 also, but I wouldnt have to expend time and energy buying them and installing them post facto.

The 870 is cheap, and tried and true. There are tons of good after market addons (which may or may not be a good thing for me:p ).

IMHO, both are good designs and would get the job done.

So my question for you knowledgable gentlmen is this:

What DON'T you like about both models? I already know whats good about them, now I want the other angle. :evil:

I'll tell you right now, I dont like the one piece stock of the Nova. I might want to get a pistol grip stock for the 870 down the road. Outa the question with Nova. (And I aint dropping 800-1000 for an M1 either).

[Preacherman]

First of all, I don't know what Dave's going to do to you after you compared his wisdom tohoney from a small mouthed bottle.You might want to be under cover when he reads that... :D

As to the choice between the 870 and the Nova: both are good guns, both will serve you well. It's hard to tell you what I don't like about them, as I've shot both, and I do like them both! However, my choice is the 870, for a number of reasons:

1. They've been around forever, and have established a reputation for longevity and reliability that is second to none. Remington's sold somewhere between 7 and 8 MILLION of them - you don't achieve that total dominance without getting something right!

2. There are humongous quantities of aftermarket accessories available for them (most of them not really necessary, but that's marketing for you...). For example, if you want ghost-ring sights, you can fit the Mossberg set for a cost of $60 plus fitting, or go with the Scattergun Technologies Trak-Lok system, or any of a number of other options. The same is not true of the Nova - many sights can be fitted, but not many other accessories are available at present.

3. You can always find a gunsmith to work on an 870 - not so on a Nova.

4. The 870 is a bit heavier than the Nova, which is an advantage from my perspective, as it soaks up a bit more recoil. I find that with a Sorbothane recoil pad installed (see http://www.kickeez.net/) I don't need a recoil reducer. You might want to try this and see.

My recommendation - need you ask? The 870.

[ShaiVong]

The recoil pad is a good idea, but wouldnt a mercury recoil reducer make the gun jump less, not just hurt less?

I.E. Faster shots on target.

[Preacherman]

In my experience, no, not at all. I've shot guns equipped with recoil reducers, and found very little difference in the muzzle jump. These were pump shotguns, of course, and I find that working the pump while the muzzle rises brings it down on target again PDQ, with or without a recoil reducer. The Kick-Eez pads are a HUGE factor, though - they're significantly softer, for me, than a Pachmayr Decelerator pad, which was the best I'd used until I discovered the Kick-Eez units. You can get them in different thicknesses, too, which helps in fitting the shotgun to you.

[ShaiVong]

Thanks preacher, good info.

[Dave McCracken]

"Honey from a small mouthed bottle"??!!

At least you didn't call me a big mouth.

I thank Benelli for introducing the Nova. It's an interesting bit of technology, and a good shotgun. I don't like the forearm rattle, or the fact that shimming the stock to raise or lower POI like I do with 870s is impossible, but these are small matters. Something is also subtly off with the stock, but many stocks fit me poorly.

The Nova may get Big Green off its collective rump and out there researching the next generation of 870.

First, they should get QC back where it belongs, and send the assembly folks back to school until they get it right.

Second, they should fund R&D enough so that a few little tweaks can be incorporated for reasons other than the bottom line. A Zytel stock and forearm set would be good for starters. A few titanium parts to produce a 2 3/4" only Enhanced Upland 12 gauge 870 weighing 6 1/2 lbs with a carbon fiber wrapped 26-30" barrel would be well received. A straight hand stock and forearm set of GREAT wood would go over with the cognescienti, and overbored barrels with long cones would also have lines forming. Stan Baker advertised his Big Bore barrels for the 870, and never kept up with the demand.

But heck, they won't even lengthen the cone, and use a design outmoded since the 60s when plastic wads made things a brand new game.

Enough grousing for now, I hope.....

[Billy Sparks]

Reference to the 870 without a recoil reducer and a Nova with a recoil reducer. I had a chance to fire both my 870 Express and my Nove Special Purpose on the same day with the same ammo. And I found that the amount of perceived recoil (a VERY subjective subject) was about the same.

[ShaiVong]

Where do you guys suggest looking for a police turn in 870? I've never seen any at the shops I frequent (only two in my area).

[Preacherman]

I'd suggest looking in a place where police have traded them in... :D

No, seriously - I don't know how you could find a police model easily. You might want to check with the major wholesalers of such weaponry, but they may not have what you want right now. I'd strongly suggest looking for a used Wingmaster and adding the necessary bits and pieces yourself. I've got 5 now, all acquired like that. Besides, it's fun!

[ShaiVong]

I was alarmed because on the Remington website, under the synthetic 870, it said something to the effect of LE addon wont work on it because its a civvy SG.

I don't want to accidently get some "dumbed down" 870 because I can't flash a badge, or eat 3 donuts in one sitting. :rolleyes:

[vertigo7]

Dixie Ammo Dump (http://www.armthepopulace.com/)

From the site:
Used police trade in good condition Remington 870 Express Magnum Police 12 Ga shotguns with 18" barrel, wood furniture and bead sights $155 each

I'm saving my pennies for one :)

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I have both---an 870 Marine Magnum and a camo Nova with 24in barrel and mag extention.

The recoil reducer seems to be a worthless gimmick---because I barely even notice the recoil from my Nova---granted I haven't put any 3.5 inchers through it either---so maybe that voids my opinion in a way. Maybe I'm fortunate and my Nova fits me just so.

Only thing I don't like about the Nova --is the forearm rattle---other than that---no problems.

No problems with my 870---my only gripe is about the forearm also----having shorter arms---I really have to reach out there to make the gun function----while the Nova has the forearm extened back a bit---so it is really comfortable.

Get what you want---I'm overall pleased with both of mine.

[Skunkabilly]

On the Nova, I wish there was a Surefire weaponlight, and that the forearm was shorter to put a 6-shot saddle. Minor logistical gripes more than anything else. I also wish there were a pistol grip stock available. Not better, just different.

The 870, I wish it were lighter, and while I can find a 7-shot model, Remington's idea that I'm not a sworn public servant makes me less worthy of two extra shots in my tube kinda ticks me off. I also wish that the Police models were easier to find over the counter. But since I'm not a cop, I'm not worthy (well just have to go thru a different dealer)

[Billy Sparks]

I usually can find the Remington Police models at the guns shows pretty easy. Matter of fact when I got my 11-87Police the dealer had it and two 870 Police's.

Skunk, I agree about the lack of dedicated weapons light but I remember seeing where someone had made a clamp on light rail for shotguns. I am seriously considering that for my Nova.

[Cameron Lamont]

Skunkabilly On the Nova, I wish there was a Surefire weaponlight, and that the forearm was shorter to put a 6-shot saddle. Minor logistical gripes more than anything else. I also wish there were a pistol grip stock available. Not better, just different.
The 870, I wish it were lighter, and while I can find a 7-shot model, Remington's idea that I'm not a sworn public servant makes me less worthy of two extra shots in my tube kinda ticks me off.

This is where I get confused.

There is a Surefire available for the Winchester Defender, and it will accept a 6-shot sidesaddle without modification. Will also take a plethora of pistol grip and pistol grip only stocks (if you had to have a pistol grip only).

Additionally the Defender is lighter 6 1/2lbs than the 870 7 1/4 lbs, and amazingly it comes with a 7 shot tube regardless of your profession. I have seen them for right about $200 in the major sporting goods stores. Brand new not trade ins...

Is there a scratching my head smiley?

Cameron

[Andrew Wyatt]

Additionally the Defender is lighter 6 1/2lbs than the 870 7 1/4 lbs

This is not an advantage. Light shotguns recoil more.







amazingly it comes with a 7 shot tube regardless of your profession.


So do mossbergs, and novas, and 870s. It's no big deal to add an extention to an 870 without one, and you don't have to worry about having a Long tube gun that only long tube barrels will fit, like a mossberg or defender owner does.

[Dave McCracken]

Re weight, sometimes light is better and sometimes it's not. More weight means a little less kick. And is the operator built like a Neanderthal, Dilbert or Tinker Bell?

Smaller shotgunners may benefit from a little lighter weapon, evne with a bit more kick. Recoil tolerance is not one for one with tonnage and altitude.

And, it's hard to make a BAD choice here. All of the major models are very good shotguns. Ford vs Dodge vs Chevy vs Toyota....

[Skunkabilly]

Cameron
This is where I get confused.

Why? He asked about Novas and 870s. So I told him what I didn't like about the Nova.

Dave McCracken
Re weight, sometimes light is better and sometimes it's not. More weight means a little less kick. And is the operator built like a Neanderthal, Dilbert or Tinker Bell?

LOL ain't that the troof, Dave! I'm a cross between Harry Potter and Dilbert :p I have a small frame but am not recoil sensitive so prefer a lighter gun.

Billy Sparks
Skunk, I agree about the lack of dedicated weapons light but I remember seeing where someone had made a clamp on light rail for shotguns. I am seriously considering that for my Nova.

Would it be a Bad Thing to have the stationary light attached via cable to a moving part? :scrutiny: I'd call Surefire about the feasability and ask about how long it'll hold up. I don't have any experience on it, maybe it's a non-issue....

[ShaiVong]

And, it's hard to make a BAD choice here. All of the major models are very good shotguns. Ford vs Dodge vs Chevy vs Toyota....

We don't need two open worm cans in one thread! :rolleyes:

[Soap]

Skunk- Get a Glock! I love my Glock so much that I want to kick my mom in the face! :D

I love my Nova except for these reasons:

1- LOP is not very adjustable...well...nearly impossible
2- What Skunk said.
3- The forearm rattles like others have said

Otherwise the shotgun is great. I'll probably throw down on an M1 or 870 next time I buy a defensive shotgun.

[ShaiVong]

I had kind of decided on an 870, even though I couldnt locate a police turn in.

I drove down to the local trading post, and fondled an 870 Turkey, and Benelli Special Purpose.

I'll be damned if that Benelli just fit so much better. And when that buttstock met my shoulder, those ghost rings were right on.

870 just didnt feel the same. Too low.

I guess I made my decision :rolleyes:

[Dave McCracken]

The McCrule....

"Get the one that FEELS best"....