Cleaning bores


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Top_Gunn
September 16, 2007, 09:34 PM
I recently looked at the manual for the Marlin 981T on Marlin's Web site. It says that, in normal use, the bore shouldn't need cleaning. Is this a Marlin thing? A bolt-action thing? A .22 thing? Nonsense?

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R.W.Dale
September 16, 2007, 10:17 PM
cleaning a 22LR barrel is a shurefire way to destroy accuracy and constancy. You will do far more harm by overcleaning a 22 barrel than you ever will by shooting it.

this ONLY applies to .22LR though

Bartkowski
September 16, 2007, 10:37 PM
Never heard that from a manufacturer, but glad I just did.

esmith
September 16, 2007, 10:37 PM
What the hell is this? Of course you need to clean your rifles. As longs as you aren't shoving some bent aluminum 3 piece rod through thats corroded how does this 'destroy' accuracy.

Bartkowski
September 16, 2007, 10:41 PM
It can wear down the rifling, if you do it to much. But I will still clean my 22 after 1 or 2 hundred rounds.

SaMx
September 16, 2007, 10:45 PM
I run a patch through the bore with a pull-through thingy. If the rifling will wear of from pulling a cotton patch through the bore, then there are bigger problems than over cleaning.

although if you have a steel brush on a steel rod (especially a 3 piece rod) then you can scratch things up. But that's true with any rifle.

esmith
September 16, 2007, 10:46 PM
Yeah i know that.

R.W.Dale
September 16, 2007, 10:47 PM
Rimfire Maintenance
Cleaning Rimfire Barrels

Rimfire rifle barrels are different from centerfire barrels in that they require very little cleaning and essentially no break-in procedure. We have asked several of the top rimfire shooters and gunsmiths that use our barrels about their procedures and based on our own experience, have come up with our recommendation for cleaning.

In a match-grade stainless steel hand-lapped barrel, leading is an almost nonexistent problem. Powder fouling is minimal too. It is possible however to have an accumulation of fouling in the leade area in front of the chamber. A build up here is detrimental to top accuracy.

We suggest cleaning in the following manner. After approximately 100 rounds push a dry loose patch through the barrel from the breach end. This pushes out loose fouling. Then take a tighter dry patch and work it back and forth about 10 times in the leade area, pushing it out of the barrel at the muzzle end when finished.

Every 200-300 rounds a loose (worn out) 22 caliber bronze brush, wet with solvent, should be worked back and forth in the leade area with short strokes and withdrawn from the chamber end. If there is any evidence of lead in the barrel then brushing the full length of the barrel with solvent is suggested.

Match quality bullets have a wax coating on them that aids accuracy. It may take 10-50 shots to "lay" a good coating of it down in the barrel and using solvents will only remove this desirable wax coating.

Users of the 10/22-type semi-auto barrels may have to remove the accumulated powder fouling buildup that forms on the breach end of the barrel. Extraction problems may result eventually unless solvent is used on this type of fouling.

The 22 WMR and 17 HMR cartridges are rimfires but they fire a jacketed bullet and therefore centerfire cleaning and break-in instructions apply.

The solvent we use and recommend for our barrels is Butch's Bore Shine from BBS Industries (406-652-2495).

http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/rimfire_maintenance.htm

In other words unless you have a lead buildup in the chamber leade area LEAVE THE BORE ALONE!

I've found this applies to all my .22's not just match barrels.

JohnBT
September 17, 2007, 07:58 AM
I think the distinction being made is to clean, but not scrub unless it really, really needs it.

Cleaning won't hurt a .22 barrel and scrubbing won't either if it's done properly.

John

lencac
September 17, 2007, 01:21 PM
I hate cleaning 22 cal. stuff. I've worn out a couple of Marlin 22 auto loaders. For what they cost, just shoot the crap out of 'em, de-mil and discard.

KBintheSLC
September 17, 2007, 02:29 PM
I have to question this theory based on my own experience. I have never had issues with "over cleaning" on my 10/22 or my MKIII. Never even heard of this before. It doesn't really make sense when you consider the simple laws of matter interaction... softer materials wear down much faster than harder materials when the two interact. In other words, a copper brush tip and an aluminum rod should not damage a hardened steel bore unless you really try hard to do this damage... or maybe after many thousands of brushings (much more than a lifetimes worth). Further more, a soft cotton patch would exponentially decrease the already minimal probability of causing such damage. I clean my guns after every use... with no exceptions. The 10/22 is 23 years old (at least 25,000 rounds) and still does quarter-sized groups at 50 meters.

I do agree however that a bore brush is not necessary more than once per 500-1000 rounds. Just solvent and patches will do the job most of the time.

esmith
September 17, 2007, 04:33 PM
I have to question this theory based on my own experience. I have never had issues with "over cleaning" on my 10/22 or my MKIII. Never even heard of this before. It doesn't really make sense when you consider the simple laws of matter interaction... softer materials wear down much faster than harder materials when the two interact. In other words, a copper brush tip and an aluminum rod should not damage a hardened steel bore unless you really try hard to do this damage... or maybe after many thousands of brushings (much more than a lifetimes worth). Further more, a soft cotton patch would exponentially decrease the already minimal probability of causing such damage. I clean my guns after every use... with no exceptions. The 10/22 is 23 years old (at least 25,000 rounds) and still does quarter-sized groups at 50 meters.


Aluminum rods are not good for bores, especially the three piece. One, Aluminum does corrode turning into aluminum oxide, at least a layer of it will. This is found on many sand papers, so if sand paper can scratch your gun, as will a cleaning rod. Two bent cleaning rods put pressure on the sides of the bore while cleaning, and if its corroded it will only aid in scratching the metal.

aka108
September 17, 2007, 05:17 PM
Friend of mine does a lot of competitive 22rf bench rest shooting. He cleans his guns after every shooting session but also says many of those he competes against never clean the bores, just the actions. I clean all of my 22 rf about once a year. Best thing is to do whatever you are most comfortable with.

woof
September 17, 2007, 05:43 PM
One word - boresnake. For .22lr no more often than every 200 rounds and every 500 is fine.

KBintheSLC
September 17, 2007, 05:51 PM
Aluminum rods are not good for bores, especially the three piece. One, Aluminum does corrode turning into aluminum oxide, at least a layer of it will. This is found on many sand papers, so if sand paper can scratch your gun, as will a cleaning rod. Two bent cleaning rods put pressure on the sides of the bore while cleaning, and if its corroded it will only aid in scratching the metal.

There is a solution... don't use old, oxidized aluminum rods. You can get a brand new 1 piece for oh... $9.

Bartkowski
September 17, 2007, 05:57 PM
I'll tell you what, the day I start seeing accuracy decrease because of the use of aluminum rods, I will pay $30 for a new carbon fiber one. But as of now, my accuracy is good, and the same as when I got the gun.

R.W.Dale
September 17, 2007, 05:59 PM
I'll tell you what, the day I start seeing accuracy decrease because of the use of aluminum rods, I will pay $30 for a new carbon fiber one. But as of now, my accuracy is good, and the same as when I got the gun.

That is my experience with my CZ452 Super Exclusive as well the only difference is I've NEVER cleaned the bore on it since new.

esmith
September 17, 2007, 07:06 PM
There is a solution... don't use old, oxidized aluminum rods. You can get a brand new 1 piece for oh... $9.

You'd be suprised on how fast something can oxidize.

Bartkowski
September 17, 2007, 07:30 PM
So what does everyone one here use? And anyone who is using aluminum rods like me, do you have any problems? I sure don't.

esmith
September 17, 2007, 07:42 PM
So what does everyone one here use? And anyone who is using aluminum rods like me, do you have any problems? I sure don't.

I am talking in excess, if you over clean your gun, the bore can wear down. Especially if its a bent aluminum that happens to have been sitting out for ahwile.

Clipper
September 17, 2007, 08:22 PM
All I own is old aluminum 3-piece rods. Use 'em on everything. The idea that an oxidized aluminum rod will act as sandpaper is laughable. AO abrasives are specially formulated in a process that doesn't even resemble everyday oxidation, otherwise your screen door would be grinding its own hinge pins off every 6 months.

R.W.Dale
September 17, 2007, 08:27 PM
I get a kick out of the people who on one hand feel that cramming a bent piece of aluminum down the bore of their rimfire is OK and yet feel that shooting even softer lead ammunition without cleaning is a mortal sin.


WHICH IS IT?

Bartkowski
September 17, 2007, 10:15 PM
I am talking in excess, if you over clean your gun, the bore can wear down. Especially if its a bent aluminum that happens to have been sitting out for ahwile.

I know, I understand what you said. I am saying that I still use an aluminum rod and that there is no sandpaper grit forming on my rod, probably due to the fact that oil from the gun cleaning is working the same as it would on steel. And what is the rod you use made out of?

I get a kick out of the people who on one hand feel that cramming a bent piece of aluminum down the bore of their rimfire is OK and yet feel that shooting even softer lead ammunition without cleaning is a mortal sin.


Cramming? Maybe we have different techniques? But I do not clean my .22lr every time it is shot, but most of the time do to to fact that I will usually shoot it 200 times during a range session.

MT GUNNY
September 17, 2007, 10:34 PM
I realy like my coated Tipton rod.

I dont know if its relevent, But I saw a section of plastic wire loom
wear a hole in the side of a aluminum head on a atv (due to vibration).

esmith
September 17, 2007, 11:30 PM
I know, I understand what you said. I am saying that I still use an aluminum rod and that there is no sandpaper grit forming on my rod, probably due to the fact that oil from the gun cleaning is working the same as it would on steel. And what is the rod you use made out of?

Aluminum. I spray it with some remoil and run it through some paper towel to remove any corrosion. Thats why it puts that grey dust on the towel. I am not speaking about dissolved gun powder from the barrel so do not confuse me. If i let the clean rod stay out for awhile and do what i described above, you will see dirt on whatever towel you run it through.

Bartkowski
September 18, 2007, 04:31 PM
Ya, my towels are black in the area touching the rod after I clean them, but there is no corrosion heavier than that little bit that comes of with rem oil.

BAT1
September 18, 2007, 09:44 PM
I use the spray foam and 30 mins later it's out. Don't over rod.

sm
September 18, 2007, 10:08 PM
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60102&highlight=gale+mcmillan


http://www.schuemann.com/

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