.223 Sound Suppressors


Chris Rhines
September 16, 2007, 09:40 PM
I think I'll make my first foray in to the wonderful world of the National Firearms Act. Yay!

In short, I want a fast-attach .223 suppressor for my AR(s). The two I'm looking at are the AAC M4-2000 and the Surefire M4FA556. I'm concerned with minimal zero shift (whatever I get will be shared between two or more rifles), long life, sound attenuation, and ease of maintenance, in roughly that order.

Any other models I should be looking at?

- Chris

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September 16, 2007, 09:57 PM
If you're interested in minimal POI shift, long life, ease of maintenance, and good decibel reduction, I would steer clear of the quick-detach suppressors. You pay quite a bit for that feature, and it lets quite a bit of flash/noise out. The best of the less expensive suppressors for .223/5.56 would be the Tac-16 from Tactical Innovations.

They go for about $400, and to my ears sound better than the M4-1000 or M4-2000. I haven't heard the Surefire offering, so I can't help you there. The only drawback, to you, is that they screw on, they don't use a QD mount.

September 17, 2007, 03:33 AM
You may aslo want to consider teh YHM. I can't tell teh sound diffence between that and teh surefire.

September 17, 2007, 10:45 AM
Almost anyone will tell you the Surefire is over priced. Anyways I don't think the POI shift from a QD suppressor is that big if the mount is well designed. On a sub- 1/2 MOA rifle you might notice it, but on a 1-2 MOA rifle with 2-4MOA optics I doubt that you would notice the POI shift in practical use.

Anyways the difference between Surefire, AAC, and KAC to other suppressors is that they are much tougher, very few companies build their suppressors up to military standards.

AAC does make a consumer SA or not too heavy full auto suppressor, it's the M4-1000, it still use the Phantom mount, which is good but not as great as the Blackout mount on the new M4-2000 Mod 07.

December 22, 2007, 11:34 PM
Hi Chris this forum will help you. we did not have them 20 years ago when I asked Doc D. about another cal. .50 ..he said he was to busy and get back with him in a year. so I made my own what a learning experience 3 years and 20g I have a very good one. It is called the learning curve.:) be careful of assumptions:what:
they can be wrong.:)

ps....:what: Chris Rhines April 23rd, 2006, 09:07 PM
I don't at present own a 1911, although I am shopping for one. This is intended to be a strictly theoretical/technical discussion.
- Chris
:what: Chris Rhines December 19th, 2007, 04:42 AM
Ghost ring sights for pistols have been tested, and have failed. On long guns, ghost rings are a useful sighting system. On pistols, ghost rings don't work. Pistol ghost rings obstruct too much of the sight picture, they are far enough from the eye that the shooter generally has to hunt for the sight picture, and they lack the precise elevation indication of partridge-style open sights.

These hex-sights are just another pistol ghost ring, with a lot of marketing hype about "unobstructed threat picture", "inborn survival mindset", and "train like you fight, and fight like you train."

Instead of wasting money on gimmicks, get a set of durable, hardened steel partridge-style sights, and practice with them.

- Chris
What Experience can you make this judgment ?:)
Alex I will take assumptions for $200. :)

Bartholomew Roberts
December 24, 2007, 08:26 AM
Chris, just saw this post; but you might search this forum for my review of the Ops Inc. 16th Model. It has a very similar design to the Surefire you are looking at; but the attachment system is a little more basic.

Of the two you mentioned, I imagine that Surefire will do better with zero shift because in my own research and comparison, it seems that a two-point mount almost always beats a single-point mount suppressor in minimizing zero shift.

I am not sure what the warranty is on those two cans; but I would be surprised if the cans weren't warrantied long enough that they will outlast multiple barrels. The 16th model I have is warrantied 30,000 rounds.

On sound attenuation, I find that this is the one area that almost all suppressors do very well. It is real hard to find a .223 suppressor these days that isn't very quiet. The difference is usually in things like zero-shift, ability to handle heat, durability, mounting system, size and weight, etc.

Ease of maintenance I couldn't comment on; but I believe the Surefire has the same maintenance plan as the 16th model - shoot it until it breaks some time after the warranty expires. No cleaning or maintenance required.

December 24, 2007, 08:52 AM
:) Great Explanation :)
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5045/old204oj1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
We are here to learn.... Thank You for Outstanding output.

December 24, 2007, 10:04 AM
wow, a thread about supressors thats been going since mid Sept and Zak Smith hasn't chimed in with his volumes of knowlege on the subject.

I can't help you out myself, they don't let us have the cool toys here in NY.

Zak Smith
December 24, 2007, 10:49 AM
Sorry, I've been busy trying to start a suppressor business!

What's already been posted here is pretty accurate. I haven't shot any 2-point connecting cans like the OPS, but most of the 223 suppressors we've shot side by side have been basically indistinguishable if you weren't looking at the shooter to determine what can was on the rifle. With that caveat, it seems like the POI shift is roughly inversely proportional to the barrel stiffness/length.

Chris Rhines
December 24, 2007, 01:05 PM
As it happens, last month I bought an AAC M4-2000 Mod 07.

Picked a bad time to do it, though; the MD State Police firearms branch is presently moving offices, and the background investigation/CLEO signoff process is backed up like I-95 South on a Friday night.

Thanks for all the input.

- Chris

December 26, 2007, 02:08 AM
Geo.Az, what is that a photo of? Is that an integral 50BMG silencer I imagine?

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