500 vs 535 vs 835


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axeman_g
September 17, 2007, 11:34 PM
Mossy fans... please tell me the difference, advantages or disadvantages of each of these models. I am looking for a new HD shottie and was looking at the 20" 835 Grand Slam Turkey as pretty much having everthing I was looking for in a HD shotgun.

Any help

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zinj
September 17, 2007, 11:48 PM
The 500 is the basic Mossberg model, and is chambered for 3" shells. The 835 was the original 3.5" Super Magnum, meant for long distance waterfowling. Lately Mossberg has marketed it as their "Top of the Line" gun. The 535 is essentially a stripped down 835, again with the 3.5in chamber. The main difference between the two is that the 835 uses an overbored barrel (which Mossberg reccomends you do not shoot slugs through [though they do sell standard bore slug barrels for the 835]) and is ported (which supposedly reduces muzzle jump, though the general consensus is that is just makes the gun louder).

For HD definitely get the 500. You have no need for 3.5" shells for HD (hell, 3" shells are overkill and make the gun harder to control) and you can buy variants specifically set up for HD. Plus it is less expensive.

mons meg
September 18, 2007, 04:17 AM
I'll second the motion for the 500 series, unless you wanna pony up the extra bucks for a 590 for HD. A 500 would give you more opportunities to reconfigure for waterfowl, though.

ArmedBear
September 18, 2007, 12:30 PM
I'd go with the gun that isn't ported, if I have the choice.

Porting just makes for a loud gun that damages hunting buddies' hearing, and a PITA to clean. Forget about just running a boresnake through it. Say hello to picking fouling out of little holes with bamboo barbecue skewers. Stupidest trend in shotgunning, bar none.

Overboring is arguably the second stupidest, though by itself it doesn't hurt much. Designed to sell you a new set of chokes, because your old ones don't fit. That's a bummer if you have a $100 super-duper turkey choke, but also if you just like your set of Carlsons or Brileys. Now you can go buy new ones, to do the same thing as the old ones did! Whoopee!

(For a while there, screw-in chokes from Mossberg, Winchester, Browning and Weatherby guns all fit each other. I guess they weren't selling enough that way.)

Longer forcing cones, sure. A good tweak. But I am looking for a nice used Citori trap gun, because the new ones have a lot of porting. I won't buy a new one. Browning can take their ported guns and well, do you know what with them. Same goes for everyone else, but Browning is by far the worst offender.

MCgunner
September 18, 2007, 12:32 PM
I'm a waterfowler, don't care about HD with a shotgun, so I favor the 835, but it balances a little more muzzle forward and a 24" barrel will make it balance more like a 500. For home defense that doesn't matter. I have a 500 for waterfowling, 28" vent rib accu-choke and in Mossberg OEM camo. It's been going in the harsh environment of the salt marsh and bay hunting for nearly 20 years now. Can't beat it for the money. I had an 870, prefer teh Mossberg. The 835 is will fire the 3.5", its only virtue over the 500 and not something I really care about. I shoot 3" heavy shot on geese the few times I get to hunt geese and it's more effective than is 3 1/2" steel. My 500 is as good a waterfowl gun to me as the 835. If you're wanting HD use, the 500 will convert to home use with a 18 1/2" barrel. There are 20" barrels for turkey hunting in the 835, but the 500 will be a little more compact.

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 18, 2007, 01:03 PM
Porting just makes for a loud gun that damages hunting buddies' hearing
Not just your buddies', but your own as well. The first time I took my 500 (which also came with a ported barrel) out rabbit hunting I made the mistake of not wearing ear protection. The ringing in my left ear after my first shot took a couple of hours to subside completely, and even then I seem to have suffered just a tiny bit of permanent hearing loss in that ear (barely perceptible, but real nonetheless.) Now we (my son and I) won't go shotgunning without our electronic ear muffs.

(For a while there, screw-in chokes from Mossberg, Winchester, Browning and Weatherby guns all fit each other. I guess they weren't selling enough that way.)
I thought they still did. When did this happen?

ArmedBear
September 18, 2007, 01:09 PM
Browning upped their bore size first, so slightly as to be imperceptible until you try to put in a choke tube. The originals were "Invector" chokes, now they're "Invector Plus".

Mossberg started making overbore barrels for some guns, starting with the 835 I think. I don't know if they match the Brownings, but I don't think they do. Maybe I'm wrong and the Invector Plus chokes fit 835's.

Winchester recently started making overbores in some guns, too.

I think they're all different, but I could be wrong.

I don't even like choke tubes much, but they're what you get now. I'm not convinced they make all that much difference, except for on the extremes, like turkey or skeet. I shot in an after work trap league a month or two back. I accidentally left an IC choke in my gun for 25 yard wobble, which supposedly requires at least IM, and most people use Full. The clay birds broke JUST FINE, and at distances that were too far for real birds anyway.

I kinda like what they used to do: sell 30" barrels with Full, 28" with Mod, 26" with IC. That makes more sense, since a 30" with IC won't handle well for something like quail, and for faraway geese, you want a 30" anyway (of course that was back when lead was legal on geese, too).

A fixed choke barrel with no porting is SO much easier to clean, it's not even funny.

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 18, 2007, 01:47 PM
Browning upped their bore size first, so slightly as to be imperceptible until you try to put in a choke tube. The originals were "Invector" chokes, now they're "Invector Plus".

Mossberg started making overbore barrels for some guns, starting with the 835 I think. I don't know if they match the Brownings, but I don't think they do. Maybe I'm wrong and the Invector Plus chokes fit 835's.

Winchester recently started making overbores in some guns, too.

I think they're all different, but I could be wrong.
Ah, OK...now I see where my confusion lies. Mossberg 500s can still use "Invector" style chokes, as can any other gun designated as compatible with same. The difference is with the new barrels and chokes that have been introduced (like the Mossberg 835, which uses chokes called "Accu-Mag".)

I don't even like choke tubes much, but they're what you get now. I'm not convinced they make all that much difference, except for on the extremes, like turkey or skeet.
I have to disagree there, at least based on my own anecdotal evidence. The ability to change from IC to MOD made (or at least seemed to make) a significant difference on the opening day of dove season, when the birds were coming in on a path that was more distant from my spot than I was anticipating. I like the versatility screw-in chokes give you, since I can go from IC for close-in pass shooting to a FULL for turkey without having to buy different barrels.

A fixed choke barrel with no porting is SO much easier to clean, it's not even funny.
I agree WRT the porting, but haven't noticed any real difficulty with cleaning due to the screw-in chokes.

ArmedBear
September 18, 2007, 01:54 PM
No tubes to clean, no threads to gum up with dissolved wads.

I think shot quality matters a lot. My trap loads are handloads; for hunting I use Wal Mart bulk, and I suppose the M did shoot a little tighter than IC for doves (I picked up an old 20 O/U with fixed IC and M barrels). The bulk hunting shells probably wouldn't have patterned so well with IC at 50-60 yards. But the hard shot sure did.

My old 1100 with a fixed Modified barrel, though, has worked on doves, quail, pigeon and rabbit, at every distance from right in front of me to way out there, with various shot sizes. I'm not saying IC is good for everything; I am, however, suggesting that Modified will do almost anything you need in the field, with lead shot, anyway.

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 18, 2007, 02:02 PM
No tubes to clean, no threads to gum up with dissolved wads.
That's easy enough to remedy. Clean the barrel with the choke still installed, just as if you were cleaning a fixed-choke gun.

Along those lines, the biggest shotgun maintenance mistake I've made so far was to listen to some advice I read that recommended the application of a drop of gun oil to the choke threads to make them easier to remove. After doing so to my son's 20 ga. 500, and him spending a day shooting at ducks, the heat transformed the oil into a gunky sludge that was like glue, and made it impossible for me to unscrew the choke. I had to use a torch to heat the end of the barrel just enough to melt the solidified oil, which allowed me to remove the choke...but also cracked it from stem to stern. Luckily, the barrel and threads didn't suffer any damage.

ArmedBear
September 18, 2007, 02:08 PM
Depends on what kind of oil. RemOil works well for me. Don't use CLP or another solvent/lubricant! Grease like Rig has worked, but MAN it gets dirty with carbon fouling. Downright YUCKY to change out in the field.

WRT cleaning, sure, you get that one choke relatively clean, though you still have to remove it and clean the threads of the tube and barrel. Mine get fouled up, anyway. But then you have the plastic crud in any other choke tubes you've used. That can be a real PITA to clean, and you then have the problem of dissolved plastic goo getting in those threads.

Yeah, you could put THAT tube in the barrel, and clean it there. But I'd be hard pressed to think that the whole rigamarole is easier than just cleaning my 1100 barrel, which takes a minute or two and it's mirror bright, bore to chamber face.

Stretchman
September 18, 2007, 06:20 PM
http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=19

When engaging multiple turkeys in that bad section of woods, the tactical turkey is the only real choice.

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 18, 2007, 06:25 PM
Oh, sure...laugh. But just wait until the first time you're confronted by a methamphetamine-crazed bird.

ArmedBear
September 18, 2007, 07:11 PM
Why why WHY put a ported barrel on that gun?

Otherwise it looks perfect for turkey. You sit in an odd position against a tree, and it make sense to have a gun that can be adjusted for LOP and held comfortably in that position.

For shooting birds, I'll take a conventional stock. But the way you hold a conventional stock is not ideal for turkey hunting's rather interesting shooting positions.

Smitty in CT
September 18, 2007, 08:31 PM
Why why WHY put a ported barrel on that gun?

Percieved value. Let's face it, the vast majority of the "consumers" out there are incredibly stupid, they will believe they are getting something "better" just because the gun sitting on the rack next to it doesn't have it.

A lot of times they will pay extra for the bauble or widget, even if it doesn't give you any demonstrable improvement. Turkey hunters are the best, they will pay ungodly amounts of money for choke tubes that are claimed to be better, when in reality, they have never even patterned their gun in the first place.

"Porting helps with muzzle rise and allows for quicker follow-up shots".... OK, lets say we buy into the marketing hype... This is a "turkey gun", isn't turkey hunting supposed to be a one shot deal???

It all goes back to "Believe half of what you read....", and if its in a sales pitch I wouldn't give you half....

Man, I'm getting cynical in my old age.... I think being a krumudgen is starting to grow on me.....

axeman_g
September 18, 2007, 09:36 PM
Gentleman... thank you for your inputs. I did not know about the ported barrel issue of louder noise.. but it makes sense since my G20C is the loudest gun I own by far.

Well, I am an old school guy anyway. I think I will go find an old 500 laying around somewhere.

Jeff F
September 18, 2007, 11:14 PM
Hey All, I've been using Permatex anti-seize lubricant on my choke tube threads for the better part of 10 years now and I'm still using the same tube I bought way back when. Best stuff I've ever used, takes just a very little dab and after multiple sessions in the field, 200-300 rounds the tubes have never been difficult to remove. 1 ounce tube is about three bucks at your favorite auto parts store.

Nathanael_Greene
September 19, 2007, 12:19 AM
Well, I am an old school guy anyway. I think I will go find an old 500 laying around somewhere.

That sounds like a good idea. Used Mossberg 500's run pretty cheap around here.

ArmedBear
September 19, 2007, 12:21 AM
Well, I was at the shop a couple months ago, and a guy was positively drooling over a similar looking gun, without the collapsible buttstock.

It was, however, a Benelli, and it runs about $1700. For TURKEY?

I mean, a Benelli might be the best thing going for high-volume doves, but why in hell would you pay an extra grand for the Benelli action when you're shooting TURKEY? A pump gun will do just fine, and even the super-duper turkey special from Remington or Mossberg is $1000 less. I guess I can see getting a gas gun for recoil absorption when shooting heavy turkey loads, but the Benelli doesn't do that anyway. Besides, it's just one or two shots. Get a Limbsaver and go hunting.

WRT porting... It's flat-out BS. The pressure curve of a shotshell is such that it doesn't do much of anything but make noise and foul up. I've shot many double and triple shots through unported guns, and the muzzle doesn't rise anyway, if the gun fits. A properly-fitting shotgun (on me, a stock 870 or 500 fits well enough) will recoil back, not up. Rise is a non-issue, even for clays doubles, and regardless, the porting doesn't help any.

Also, I'd hate to wear hearing protection while hunting, at least in most situations. Doves, quail, turkey, you name it, you generally hear 'em before you see 'em. Hunting without hearing? How does THAT work?

TrueBrit1974
September 19, 2007, 12:22 AM
:what:i own a mossberg maverick had it for the last two years and never let me down. love it and for the price value for money

okiewita40
September 19, 2007, 12:32 AM
Axeman,

I just bought my mossy 500 last week and I couldn't be happier with it.in my probably 30 yrs. of hunting and shooting I have had everything from single shot to bolt action to semi auto to o/u and even sxs. 410 to 12 ga.

I prefer the mossy 500 over the rem 870p i use at work. The mossy is lighter and fits me just a tad better than the rem. does.

I currently own only 2 shotguns the mossy 500 in 12 ga. and a single shot 16 ga that belonged to my great grandfather.

JohnMcD348
September 19, 2007, 02:23 AM
Go with the 500. Take the money you save and use it to buy ammo, accessories you need/want and take it out and practice, practice, practice.

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 19, 2007, 10:30 AM
Also, I'd hate to wear hearing protection while hunting, at least in most situations. Doves, quail, turkey, you name it, you generally hear 'em before you see 'em. Hunting without hearing? How does THAT work?
I think you missed the "electronic" qualifier I used when I mentioned our ear muffs. We can not only hear when we hunt, we can hear the faintest sounds from distances you wouldn't believe, if we turn the volume up (though we generally don't...normal hearing is all we're going for.)

If I didn't want to be able to hear then I'd continue to shoot my 500 without hearing protection. Eventually I'd be essentially deaf.

41magsnub
September 19, 2007, 10:41 AM
You could buy a lot of Butterball's for $1700...

/not that a Butterball is a good turkey, just using the name for comedic purposes... ease off!

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 19, 2007, 10:46 AM
not that a Butterball is a good turkey
Like just about everything else, it is if you deep-fry it ;)

ArmedBear
September 19, 2007, 11:30 AM
Electronic ear protection is great if you don't have a gun that fits. At least the electronic muffs I have.

Are there some muffs that don't get in the way, when you have a gun with a cheek weld?

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 19, 2007, 11:40 AM
Electronic ear protection is great if you don't have a gun that fits. At least the electronic muffs I have.
Consider the alternatives:

1) Permanent hearing damage.

2) Not being able to hear while you hunt.

Are there some muffs that don't get in the way, when you have a gun with a cheek weld?
The secret in my case is not special muffs, but my SpecOps stock. My ear muffs manage to just clear even the optional cheek piece add-on.

ArmedBear
September 19, 2007, 12:03 PM
I use a shotgun for wingshooting.

Of course, I refuse to shoot a ported gun, and I do wear ear protection when there's any echo, etc. But out in the open in the field, my 20 is not loud to the shooter. The 12 isn't bad, either. A gun next to me is a LOT louder than my own gun. That's when I'm a lot more likely to wear plugs.

Depends on the terrain, the load, etc. I will use hearing protection when it's the better alternative.

axeman_g
September 19, 2007, 08:06 PM
I dont know why I was looking, considering I have 3 shotguns now.... I can only shoot one at a time. But since all of mine are 16g I was thinking about adding a HD 12g to the stable. See, I have a 20" Riot barrel (cut down from a old barrel with a Cutts compensator) for my new to me Win Model 12g. And, my Sweet Sixteen w/ a 24" barrel would work great, ask all the Malaysian Tribesman that English Soldiers whipped with them as ambush busters. But for some reason I was banding about a a new gun.... imagine that.
I should tell everyone my story about the English veteran I met while in Italy... new thread coming.

Hatchman
September 20, 2007, 05:20 PM
Go with the 500, perfect for HD with 18" or 20".

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