Clip vs Mag : terminology review


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J_Dillinger
September 18, 2007, 01:28 AM
Ok, recently I was 'critiqued' for using the word 'clip' in reference to a magazine that can be inserted into a pistol (or rifle).

Now, I'm a civilian and have always been a civilian though I'm definitely aware of a variance with military personnel such as a rifle is not a gun, etc.
Perhaps this is one of 'those' where a 'clip' is not a clip but a 'mag......:rolleyes:

Really, if everyone knows what I'm discussing, then who cares, right ?
I've shot firearms for nearly 20 years and whatever I choose to call my gun parts is my business and I really don't like lip such as ......."I knew this post was from a newbie because......" Well, I ain't old but I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday neither.

ANYHOW ~ here's a definition to 'chew' on for the firearm language correct think you know everything types......(extreme sarcasm)

cartridge clip
n.
A metal container or frame for holding cartridges to be loaded into an automatic rifle or pistol. Also called ammunition clip.

So when I type 'clip' this is exactly what I'm referring to and what I choose to call this hunk a metal with a spring that holds my bullets......saavy ?

:neener:

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JohnKSa
September 18, 2007, 01:36 AM
This one has gotten overblown somewhere along the line.

I've seen Charles Askins refer to magazines as "clips" in writing and I've yet to see anyone claim he didn't know guns.

Bobarino
September 18, 2007, 01:39 AM
clip:
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/615755/2/istockphoto_615755_m1_garand_clips.jpg

Magazine:
http://www.ar15-rifles.com/shop/images/50413.jpg

a simple definition of a clip is that is what's used to load an internal or external magazine.

Bobby

Noxx
September 18, 2007, 01:41 AM
So when I type 'clip' this is exactly what I'm referring to and what I choose to call this hunk a metal with a spring that holds my bullets......saavy ?

Hey you can call it a ham sammich if you want, no skin off my tuchus.

pinstripe
September 18, 2007, 01:46 AM
It really doesn't matter which term you use. Anyone familiar with firearms will know what you are talking about. Some folks just like to be anal about terminology.

Claude Clay
September 18, 2007, 01:46 AM
mag is what holds live rounds and is inserted. clip feeds an existing internal device and or may not not be retained till the 'ping'

Kor
September 18, 2007, 01:57 AM
clip n. 2: a device to hold cartridges for charging the magazines of some rifles; also: a magazine from which ammunition is fed into the chamber of a firearm

magazine n. 5: a supply chamber as a: a holder in or on a gun for cartridges to be fed into the gun chamber automatically.

I understand it's annoying to you, but sometimes, us gun curmudgeons actually have reasons for making fine technical distinctions like "clip vs. magazine" - if you check the definitions(mine come from Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary), the difference is that ALL magazines are an integral part of the cartridge-feeding mechanism of single-chamber repeating firearms, whether they be fixed(i.e. bolt-rifle, lever-rifle, shotgun) or detachable(pistol, "Evil Black Rifle). Although SOME clips are actually part of the cartridge feeding mechanism(i.e. for M1 Garand & Mannlicher/Carcano rifles), SOME clips ARE NOT involved in cartridge feeding, but only in the process of loading MAGAZINES(i.e. stripper/charger clips for military bolt-action rifles, or for loading detachable magazines for M14/FAL/M16/AK rifles).

Consider this, if you will: In WWII, a GI armed with an M1 carbine might run out of ammo in a firefight, and call for his buddy to "throw me an M1 clip!" If his buddy was armed with an M1 Garand, the "M1 clip" he would have in his ammo belt pocket would be totally incompatible with his buddy's carbine. That's why drill sergeants would beat the distinction into recruits, so that imprecise terminology/nomenclature wouldn't cause potentially fatal problems like this.

So now you know - and knowing is half the battle. ;)

Ragnar Danneskjold
September 18, 2007, 02:09 AM
You're right that we know what you're talking about when you say clip instead of magazine. And you might be right saying "why say mag when you can say clip and everyone still knows what you're talking about?"

But I counter with, why not just say magazine? It's just changing one word, and it's a little more accurate. Why not just get yourself to call a clip a clip and a magazine a magazine.

The term "clip" is popularized in media as a slang term for a magazine. They have the excuse(a poor one) of not knowing what a clip really is. But since we do, why not stand above the ignorant and use real terms for real things? Why let ourselves use inaccurate slang? Bottom line, it's easy to use one or the other, and it's just one simple word. But we all know better, so why not just put that little extra effort in and be that much more accurate?

tasco 74
September 18, 2007, 02:21 AM
???????????????????????????:confused::confused:

230RN
September 18, 2007, 03:03 AM
Es tut mir veh.

English is one of the most evocative, powerful, and flexible languages in the world... and it evolves constantly.

I personally am used to calling a magazine a clip --from almost sixty years of shooting, although I avoid it on this board to deter buckets of wasteful posts about its "misuse."

I am also used to calling complete pistol and rifle cartridges "shells," even though I know that a "shell" is the empty cartridge case. "Give me another clip. I ran out of shells" may grate on you, but in twenty years, who knows what phrases you use will grate on future shooters?

And, after all, is not a shotgun "shell" a complete cartridge?

Those who were indoctrinated in military terminology are of course aware that precision is necessary to avoid supply and logistics and contracting problems. Hence so much "odd" military terminology.

And there's the old poem about this is my rifle and what is for fun. To my mind, this is merely an indoctrination technique and not based on any realistic differentiation.

And even military terminology changes.

Oh... you remember that old poem, don't you?

"This is my rifle, this is my gonne"... and so forth.

So. Now we will hear allll about how a gun is a naval rifle, and that "caliber" is really the barrel length divided by the diameter of the shell.

And, again, in twenty years, who knows what phrases you presently use "correctly" will grate on future shooters?

Give it a rest.

I'm going to go clean my gonne now.

Hkmp5sd
September 18, 2007, 03:58 AM
.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Hkmp5sd/thereisadifference2.jpg?t=1190102012

TX1911fan
September 18, 2007, 08:47 AM
JDillinger, I would analogize this to someone calling the fuel injector in their car a carburetor. Sure, we'd know what he was talking about, but that doesn't make the terminology correct. The only reason you use "clip" is that you've heard it used improperly in movies and books so much. What's the big deal with changing, now that you know the correct usage? Before I got into guns, I would have called a magazine a clip, but once I learned the proper term, I changed.

El Tejon
September 18, 2007, 08:55 AM
J Dillinger, you do realize that there is a distinction between a "clip" and a "magazine", right? The definition you cite is the definition of a "clip" that one would use to load an automatic rifle, M1 Garand, or an automatic pistol, Mauser C96. A "magazine" has a spring that pushes cartridges topside, a "clip" does not.

You can call a horse an orange, but that does not make it so. Calling things by their proper names is the foundation of learning. This is The High Road; we strive to get it right.:)

Jim Watson
September 18, 2007, 08:58 AM
I have quit worrying about "clip" versus "magazine". What irks me is the expert who will tell you the difference and then proceed to load his ammunition feeding device with "bullets." Or "boolits."

RevolvingCylinder
September 18, 2007, 09:39 AM
What irks me is the expert who will tell you the difference and then proceed to load his ammunition feeding device with "bullets." Or "boolits."
I'm always correcting people on that. They give me the usual "same difference"(contradictory phrase I might add) crap. I also got someone on mentioning a "rim" on a rimless cartridge.:D

Hawk
September 18, 2007, 09:41 AM
Watching the language grow less precise is seldom a fun pastime. However, I tend to smile benignly on a gunnie scrambling the use of "clip" vs "magazine" and don't recall ever posting a correction. But I will get pedantic when the likes of Schumer, McCarthy or the like confuse the terms - when they state they want to ban 11 round clips it has an unfortunate tendency to spill over onto my magazines.

But give the board pedants a break on the magazine thing, they've taken a number of hits recently. First, Colt goes and legitimatizes ".45 Long Colt" thus choking off the fun of pointing out that the round doesn't exist.

As if that wasn't bad enough, numerous historical texts refer to "pistol whipping" in the 19th century (presumably "revolver whipping" being a term that does not flow trippingly from the tongue) thus casting the "pistols are not revolvers" claim as a diagnosable symptom of OCD.

Still, even those of us that don't correct internet posts on the "magazine" vs "clip" issue are silently gratified when the terms are used correctly. Claiming that confusion is harmless due only to its incorporation in a dictionary rings hollow. Dictionary definitions now include "ain't" and "irregardless" the latter apparently a mutant love-child of "irrespective" and "regardless". Languages change over time. Sometimes it's evolution; other times it's devolution. Calling "magazines" "clips" is most assuredly the latter.

Scorpiusdeus
September 18, 2007, 09:48 AM
Though I too think it's over blown I've instructed my girlfriend in the proper manner to describe these two items. I do it simply so some old codger doesn't make a snide remark and piss her off. She's a Redhead and I'm only thinking of the safety and welfare of the old codger. ;)

Still, this isn't half as bad as the youngsters who call every handgun a Glock or worse a gat. I guess to the little "G"s I'm the old codger.

I knew the cause was lost when I heard a Newscaster say: My Bad!

Kentak
September 18, 2007, 09:50 AM
Words and their meanings matter.

When I'm wheeled into the operating room, and the surgeon asks the nurse, "What's this guy here for?" And, she says, "He's having his 'stones' removed," I want the doc to know she's talking about gall stones!

K

Stump Water
September 18, 2007, 09:59 AM
And how many of you mispronounce Garand?

Well... you made me look it up.

In all my years I've never heard it pronounced, GAR-ind (accent on the first syllable).

J_Dillinger
September 18, 2007, 10:07 AM
EXHIBIT 'A'

http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/stvalentine/Image89.jpg

Notice the word 'clip' used on the diagram above (2nd from the top on the left). This illustration is part of the analysis behind the Valentine Massacre (Al Capone's gang). We're talking about pre-WWII terminology here folks.

eliphalet
September 18, 2007, 10:14 AM
itdonmatter either word the device seems ta work and be understood with the same end result.
Getoverit

J_Dillinger
September 18, 2007, 10:14 AM
J Dillinger, you do realize that there is a distinction between a "clip" and a "magazine", right? The definition you cite is the definition of a "clip" that one would use to load an automatic rifle, M1 Garand, or an automatic pistol, Mauser C96. A "magazine" has a spring that pushes cartridges topside, a "clip" does not.

Explain the Thompson SMG then. :rolleyes:......it's CLIP has a spring.

El Tejon
September 18, 2007, 10:17 AM
Its magazine has a spring. The Thompson does not use clips.

Is that a police book?:D

J_Dillinger
September 18, 2007, 10:48 AM
Its magazine has a spring. The Thompson does not use clips.

Sir (I presume), Thompsons used box CLIPS before you were born. ;)

EXHIBIT 'B'

Figure II.

Thompson Sub-Machine Gun, Model 1921AC, fitted with Cutts Compensator,
20-shot clip magazine and detachable stock.

and

With the loaded clip of 20 rounds of service ammunition another pound was added.

and

Equipment for the Thompson gun includes four types of magazines. There is available a 20-shot clip, a fifty-shot drum and a 100- [Page 1111] shot drum for ball ammunition, plus the 18-shot box magazine or clip for the shot cartridge.



Source : American Inst. of Crim. L.
23 (1932-33): 1098.

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/PSharpe1.html

1911Tuner
September 18, 2007, 10:55 AM
Personally, I use both terms in a technically correct sense, but gettin' my panties in a wad because somebody calls a magazine a clip isn't worth the time and elevated blood pressure, and it could well alienate a new shooter or even a potential new best friend. Same goes for saying that "The bullet'll go in the barrel but it won't go off." as opposed to the technically correct "The cartridge will chamber, but won't fire." He knows what he means, and I know what he means...so why waste time quibblin' over silly things?

TX1911fan
September 18, 2007, 10:57 AM
In that Thompson photo, they used "clip magazine" so I guess they wanted to be sure. My brother told me he thought clip meant a magazine that was detachable, and that magazine was one that could not be detached. I explained that this was incorrrect, but he still uses it anyway. It bugs me but I tried to help him and he refused. I guess if he wants to sound stupid, it's none of my business.

JDillinger, do you think we're all going to just say "Oh, yeah, this guy is right. We've been wrong all along!" What are you trying to accomplish here? You've made your point, what's the point of arguing?

v35
September 18, 2007, 10:57 AM
......it's CLIP has a spring.
*sigh* "it's" = "it is"

Don't get me started on "their" vs. "they're" vs. "there".

Errors in communication result in misunderstandings between individuals. Misunderstandings seldom result in favorable outcomes. Should you not, therefore, endeavor to be as accurate as possible while communicating? Saying "you know what I mean", or accepting such an approach to communication, is an admission of laziness.

Rush says it best: "words mean things." If you want to be understood, make sure what you say, or write, expresses your intent.

El Tejon
September 18, 2007, 10:58 AM
Now we've done it! The Grammar Special Police are here!:D

Novus Collectus
September 18, 2007, 11:04 AM
J Dillinger, first of all the person who wrote that may have been mistaken about the terminology. Second of all they called it a "clip magazine" which is telling about their mixing of terms aqnd possible improper usage. And third, try and say "50 round drum clip", it just doesn't sound right.

Jim Watson
September 18, 2007, 11:05 AM
Yes, and Colt sold "Revolving Pistols" and "Automatic Pistols" for many years before the pedants decided that "pistol" could refer only to a single - chambered handgun and that "automatic" could refer only to a fully automatic weapon, e.g. a machine gun.

J_Dillinger
September 18, 2007, 11:11 AM
Now we've done it! The Grammar Special Police are here! :D

Yeah......typing too quickly and I didn't 'edit' or proof-read my post.

I promise to do better. :rolleyes:

FWIW : Magazine - early definition : b. The contents of a storehouse, especially a stock of ammunition.

Not sure how far back that goes, definitely to Colonial days. Any place for storing ammo would be considered a 'magazine' by definition. Hence all 'clips' are magazines, so let me clarify that using the word magazine to describe a Thompson box clip is also correct.

English is a strange language and over the years the term 'clip' has been abandoned with the evolution of automatic machine guns, semi-autos, and other firearms. The modern accepted use for a semi-auto 'box clip' is in fact a magazine. My purpose for the thread is to learn but also point out that firearm terminology has been revised several times with the largest impact being from the Military.

As been pointed out, terms are very important on the battlefield. Please note I am a civilian so my terminology is not 'standardized'.

Do you think the legendary Dillinger himself would be bothered by me referring to a 30-round box clip for my Tommy ? - I think not.

Novus Collectus
September 18, 2007, 11:25 AM
1911 Tuner, Personally, I use both terms in a technically correct sense, but gettin' my panties in a wad because somebody calls a magazine a clip isn't worth the time and elevated blood pressure, and it could well alienate a new shooter or even a potential new best friend. Same goes for saying that "The bullet'll go in the barrel but it won't go off." as opposed to the technically correct "The cartridge will chamber, but won't fire." He knows what he means, and I know what he means...so why waste time quibblin' over silly things? I believe the correct term is "women's undergarments" now. :p
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/#mea=103580

Novus Collectus
September 18, 2007, 11:33 AM
Yes, and Colt sold "Revolving Pistols" and "Automatic Pistols" for many years before the pedants decided that "pistol" could refer only to a single - chambered handgun and that "automatic" could refer only to a fully automatic weapon, e.g. a machine gun.I was once talking with a few LEOs and I mentioned that a semi auto pistol can also be called an automatic and it was often done so just fifty years ago. They said there is an important difference. I asked why and they explained it so that it all made sense:
When testifying in a court of law whenever a police officer calls a semi auto pistol an automatic, the defense lawyers jump on it and claim the officer was either confused about which gun was used in the crime because the one in evidence cannot fire with one function of the trigger, or they claim the officer had a lack of knowlege about the subject and try to discredit them.
Sometimes the exact meaning of the words means a lot.

(Note: this is the Maryland court system and may not be the same way in other states)

TX1911fan
September 18, 2007, 11:48 AM
As been pointed out, terms are very important on the battlefield. Please note I am a civilian so my terminology is not 'standardized'.

Seems to me that you are admitting you are using the term incorrectly, but it is not a big enough deal to you to care. Fine with me.

tkendrick
September 18, 2007, 11:58 AM
I have always had serious doubts (and no...I am NOT kidding) about the mental and social stability of people who feel it's necessary to correct others over such unimportant minutia.

CountGlockula
September 18, 2007, 12:01 PM
"Clips" don't have springs in them.

I did this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Stripper_Clips_Glock_Magazine.jpg

Vonderek
September 18, 2007, 12:23 PM
I have always had serious doubts (and no...I am NOT kidding) about the mental and social stability of people who feel it's necessary to correct others over such unimportant minutia.
I guess I'm unstable then.
As someone said once, "Anyone who loves knowledge wants to be told when he is wrong. It is stupid to hate being corrected."
I believe it was Solomon in Proverbs.

Stump Water
September 18, 2007, 12:26 PM
Yes, and Colt sold "Revolving Pistols" and "Automatic Pistols" for many years before the pedants decided that "pistol" could refer only to a single - chambered handgun and that "automatic" could refer only to a fully automatic weapon, e.g. a machine gun.

Hmmm... shouldn't that be "machine rifle"?

:rolleyes:

Sonora Rebel
September 18, 2007, 12:26 PM
The terminology is not interchangable.

Magazines are reusable spring loaded 'boxes' used to feed ammunition into the reciever. The may or may not be removable. (detachable and fixed) They are integral to the weapon when in use.

Clips are disposable metal devices used to hold/align rounds for loading ammunition into magazines. They 'may' be integral to the weapon when in use (as is the case of the M1 Garand rifle) and mechanically ejected when the last round is fired.

'Far as I can determine... 'clips' were first used by Mauser to load the C-96 'Broomhandle' magazine thru the top of the reciever. This magazine was also detachable. A very advanced concept in 1896.

Mojo-jo-jo
September 18, 2007, 12:58 PM
Video explanation of clip vs magazine by R. Lee Ermey from the History Channel show, "Mail Call."

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=7609197

CNYCacher
September 18, 2007, 01:06 PM
Wheels vs. Tires


You want to sound like someone who got his firearm knowledge from watching "Die Hard", be my guest. Call me what you like, but if you start calling magazines "clips", I tend to downgrade my expectations from you.

TX1911fan
September 18, 2007, 04:01 PM
Mo-jo-jo, excellent work. Thanks.

JesseL
September 18, 2007, 04:32 PM
I'll never understand why anyone would persist in being wrong when they know what's right, and being right doesn't even require any extra effort.

Understanding why anyone would argue in defense of being wrong is even further beyond me.

I guess some people just don't want to burden themselves with a vocabulary that's any larger than they feel is necessary. They'll have to forgive me for seeing this as the beginning of a regression back into communicating by grunts and gestures.

Bazooka Joe71
September 18, 2007, 04:48 PM
I could understand calling it a clip if the word for magazine was Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, but its just "magazine," or if you the same amount of syllables, "mag." Sorry guys/gals, I just wanted a reason to use "Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis":D

44 responses with no end in sight.:rolleyes:

In the words of the wise El Tejon, "only at THR."
OK, OK, OK, I dont know how wise, but El T nontheless :p

1911Tuner
September 18, 2007, 04:53 PM
44 responses with no end in sight.

Yep. Quibblin'...

;)

El Tejon
September 18, 2007, 04:55 PM
The Grammar Police and the Moderators are here!

Quick everyone stand up straight and pretend everything is fine.:D

*whistles while rocking back and forth*

usp9
September 18, 2007, 05:06 PM
All I know is I load my bullets into the clip, put the clip of bullets in my automatic, pull the trigger and hear those bullets explode in the barrel. Magazines are what I read to become a more knowledgable gun expert.:rolleyes::scrutiny:

billhilly66
September 18, 2007, 05:08 PM
You're reading the wrong magazines then. I bet they have nice pictures though.

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 18, 2007, 05:11 PM
While it doesn't *bother* me to hear someone say "clip" instead of "magazine", my question is:

If you know "clip" is incorrect, why insist on using it when you really mean "magazine"?

Bruce333
September 18, 2007, 05:32 PM
I really don't care what you choose to call 'em.

BTW, Remington calls them "magazine clips".

http://www.remington.com/products/accessories/gun_parts/magazine_clips.asp

AirForceShooter
September 18, 2007, 05:33 PM
The Kittens
We must save the Kittens

AFS

jefnvk
September 18, 2007, 05:42 PM
I guess some people just don't want to burden themselves with a vocabulary that's any larger than they feel is necessary. They'll have to forgive me for seeing this as the beginning of a regression back into communicating by grunts and gestures.

Are you going to correct someone from Britain, who may call a car hood a bonnet? People grew up calling the same thign by different names. I know quite a few shooters who have never seen a stripper clip before, and interchange the terms. Do I bash them in? Nope.

People grow up calling somethign by a name. Someone else grows up calling them by a different name. Soem people apparently are forced by the military to call them somethign different.

Case in point: what do you all call those thigns on the wall you drink water from? If you walk into a restaurant, do you order when you want a carbonated sugary soft drink?

alucard0822
September 18, 2007, 05:43 PM
At the range, when I ask my girlfriend to pass 3 clips to re-load my mag, or a couple garand clips she knows what I mean. I don't worry about correcting people, but proper terminology can help understanding. " Pass me 2 clips and a clip for the AR and a couple more clips and clips to load the clips in my AK and oh yea, a couple more clips for the SKS, it doesn't use clips".

44 responses with no end in sight.
go to a mechanic shop or auto parts store and ask for stuff for your "motor"
motor=direct conversion of energy into motion aka electric motor
engine=uses combustion/thermal process to generate energy and power motion. aka gas engine, steam engine
they may quickly and proudly pronounce you have a 3.2 liter dual over head cam fuel injected ENGINE with variable cam lift and timing.

then point out Detroit is the "motor city", and they sell "motor oil" , and watch their head spin as they puke split pea soup.:what:

I imagine telling an officer you didn't renew your registration, because the Motor Vehicle Administration has no jurisdiction over your non-electric vehicle powered soley by a gas engine wouldn't work.

Joe Demko
September 18, 2007, 05:43 PM
I don't know why you are all so emotionally overwrought (both sides) with respect to this question. When we start getting to not-so-thinly veiled insults and questioning each other's intelligence and the other foolishness that has happened in this thread, it makes me laugh. Why? Because this board is one where liberals and antis are routinely pilloried for being ruled by their emotions. Now here you guys are, getting worked up over whether or not a technical term means what you want it to mean...and that's both sides.

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 18, 2007, 05:48 PM
know quite a few shooters who have never seen a stripper clip before, and interchange the terms.
Did any of them ever try stuffing $1 bills into a "clip"s g-string?

RH822
September 18, 2007, 06:16 PM
Just tossing a little more fuel on the fire. You "magazine" guys better have a chat with The Marlin Firearms Company.:neener:
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Store/Category.aspx?category=Clips&

RH

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 18, 2007, 06:19 PM
Just tossing a little more fuel on the fire. You "magazine" guys better have a chat with The Marlin Firearms Company.
That's why I own a Savage instead ;)

alucard0822
September 18, 2007, 07:04 PM
You "magazine" guys better have a chat with The Marlin Firearms Company.

go ahead:

Contact Us
Send Mail to:
Marlin Firearms
PO Box 248
North Haven CT 06473-0905

Send Product to (for returns/repair):
Marlin Firearms
100 Kenna Drive
North Haven CT 06473

By Phone:
Main Switchboard: (203) 239-5621
Gun Service (800) 544-8892

Dear sir or madam, I am appaled at the sheer disreguard for truth displayed by your webpage. Under the "parts" you allegedly refer to magazines for several models of rifles as "clips". In this litigious society of ours these blatant injustices must be corrected for the safety of the public, including 80 million gun owners. I patiently await a correction, and public apology to the scores of patrons who have supported marlin firearms since 1870, and have suffered psycological stress and trauma for this seemingly "minor" oversite.

I than you in advance for your compliance, Alucard:neener:

eliphalet
September 18, 2007, 07:09 PM
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Store/...ategory=Clips&

I knew I like Marlin even if mine are Tube fed and not "clips"

230RN
September 18, 2007, 07:09 PM
(Jes' gettin' even with one uh them reel perfeshinil dealers thirty years ago who "corrected" me on my "mispronounciation.")

Read it and weep:

Hawk
September 18, 2007, 07:11 PM
I recall seeing some ad copy from Marlin where they described one of their .22 rimfires as "tubular magazine or clip fed", or something along those lines.

It's not immediately clear how this could be cleaned up without losing clarity - "tubular magazine or magazine fed" doesn't work well; "tubular or vertical magazine" is hardly better.

Perhaps "Tubular or removable box magazine"?

At any rate Marlin has an excuse that those without tubular magazines don't have. Remington's use of "clip magazine" is understandable as well given the number of people no doubt searching for magazines using "clip" as a keyword. The objective, after all, is to sell the things - not lecture one's customers.

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 18, 2007, 07:15 PM
"tubular magazine or magazine fed" doesn't work well; "tubular or vertical magazine" is hardly better.
Or the ever-popular, "Totally tubular, dude."

chris in va
September 18, 2007, 07:23 PM
I like the word CLIP better because it's easier to say...and it sounds more interesting.

You can't MAGAZINE it in, but you can CLIP it in!:p

Blackbeard
September 18, 2007, 07:27 PM
Sinch spellin ain't im portend, may be wee kin cowl it "da bocks u putz da bull its inn"

Geronimo45
September 18, 2007, 07:33 PM
And How Many of You Mispronounce Garand? (II)
I pronounce it 'emm wun'.

vynx
September 18, 2007, 07:39 PM
I agree with J Dillinger - catsup, ketchup, smashed tomatoes ... whats the difference?

But go into a gunshop and say clip and all you hear is "its not a clip its a magazine" from people that can barely spell their own name.

Ron James
September 18, 2007, 07:51 PM
Calling a magazine a clip or a clip a magazine, I don't mind, I just smile because I've been corrected a few times, but what makes me grind my teeth is when shotguns are called " shotties" and Remingtons are called " Remmies". errrrrr, even typing it makes me grind my teeth.:eek:

J_Dillinger
September 18, 2007, 08:05 PM
While it doesn't *bother* me to hear someone say "clip" instead of "magazine", my question is:

If you know "clip" is incorrect, why insist on using it when you really mean "magazine"?

Point >> I forgot to add that I'm also coming from a re-enactor background as in the War against Northern Agression (not C.W. as the textbooks re-wrote it) and realism in depicting the time is important.......please don't fault me and argue straying from the topic - start another thread and I'll debate that with any offended Yankees.

Anyhow - it's important to speak the 'language' of the day and while in modern terms it may be viewed as incorrect to call a mag - a clip.......if I'm portraying the roaring 20's era when the Tommy Gun was popular and readily available at hardware stores.

Historically, I'm being correct in calling my 30-round sticks - BOX CLIPS as would have been used in the 1920's through 1930's.

Period correct would be to call it a 'clip'......

'Mag' is a modern slang term, sorry. :rolleyes:

tkendrick
September 18, 2007, 08:58 PM
We awr now huked on fonics!!!!

Clip or Magazine? Garand...How 'bout Krag? Caliber or calibre.

Go down South or into most of the Midwest and ask for a Coke. The first question you'll get is: "What kind?"

We live with a language that suffers from having evolved from at least three different parent languages.

I move we table this discussion- For our freinds from Britain and the Commonwealth countries- that means I move we don't table this discussion.

Call it what you want, I know what you're talking about.

And I still have doubts about those who find it necessary make it an issue. It lowers MY expectation that you are able to converse with others without allowing your ego to get in the way.

1911Tuner
September 18, 2007, 09:17 PM
J Dillinger...Would you'uns be a-talkin' 'bout the Yankee Invasion of the Southland in 1860?

Great grandpappys from both sides of the family...one from Birmin'ham Alabammy and t'other from Wise, Virginny was both volunteers fer that one.
;)

Call it what you want, I know what you're talking about.

And I still have doubts about those who find it necessary make it an issue. It lowers MY expectation that you are able to converse with others without allowing your ego to get in the way.

I couldn't agree more. Like my grandpappy Tuner used ta say:

"Don't worry 'bout the little stuff."

JWarren
September 18, 2007, 09:33 PM
I'm all in the "Words Mean Things" camp. At the same time, I recognize the value in:

"In terms of principle, stand like a rock. In terms of style, go with the flow."


I see little return on equity (ROE) to be had from being "that guy" who corrects people's verbage and terminology at every opportunity. You know you've crossed the line when you stop getting invited to things and crowds filter out as you walk up.

Is it really worth it? Have we already solved every other pressing problem in the world and now must hash out semantics until we have absolute compliance and conformity? Have we decided that others secretly appreciate being lectured on word usage and that somehow this will only strengthen our bonds of friendship?

Yeah... I didn't think so either.


I never really thought about this topic prior to a few months ago. I am one of those oddball people who actually used the term "magazine" and "clip" properly-- naturally. So, I am doing good. Nope.

You see, it was pointed out on THR a while back that you commit a party foul if you use the term "bullet" when you should be using the term "cartridge." Sure, I know the difference-- and I always have. But I also know that practically EVERYONE around here uses the term "bullet" when they really mean "cartridge." So... when it Rome....

I've had a gun in my hands for over a quarter of a century, and I have YET to have an experience even where confusion arose from the improper use of the terms "Magazine" or "Bullet." No one has every been shot. No one every had a Accidental or Negligent Discharge, and the Pope is still in Rome.


-- John

Hkmp5sd
September 18, 2007, 09:42 PM
Do you call semi-automatic rifles "assault weapons"? No.

Do you call <insert the latest wicked brand of ammunition here> "Cop Killer Bullets"? No.

If we cannot use the correct terminology to describe firearms and components, how can we expect the media and general public to use them?

Bazooka Joe71
September 18, 2007, 09:43 PM
My favorite toystore calls all of their mags clips: http://whittakerguns.com/

Never understood why, but didn't question him with the prices he has.

BTW, I was talking to my FFL today(who is buddy's with Darryl, the owner) and he said he is trying to sell his shop...$8,000,000 and the shop is yours. He will even throw in the building and the land for free!!!(its a steal isn't it?):D

Aguila Blanca
September 18, 2007, 09:43 PM
Dillinger -

I notice that you conspicuously did not post the source for your definition. The definition is extremely suspect. "Clip" in reference to a device such as the M1 Garand en bloc clip is correct usage. "Clip" in reference to a removeable magazine such as used in an AR-15 or in semi-automatic handguns is not correct. If you are proud of using incorrect terminology, that's fine with me. But you should not berate those who feel that the use of correct terminology is ... correct.

Novus Collectus
September 18, 2007, 09:53 PM
J Dillinger...Would you'uns be a-talkin' 'bout the Yankee Invasion of the Southland in 1860?

Great grandpappys from both sides of the family...one from Birmin'ham Alabammy and t'other from Wise, Virginny was both volunteers fer that one.
The Southern insurrection started in 1861 when the rebels attacked an American ship when Buchanan was president. The rebels then fired on on a Federal Fort in March. :neener:

IMO as far as clips and magazines go, it is not totally important outside of military or courtrooms to make the distinction and I sometimes say it wrong too, but one thing I will never mistake is saying I put a magazine of .45 ACP in my revolver. My revolver takes clips.

Joe Demko
September 18, 2007, 10:02 PM
Well, one thing we can all agree on...all the other people in this thread are wrong.

1911Tuner
September 18, 2007, 10:11 PM
The Southern insurrection started in 1861 when the rebels attacked an American ship when Buchanan was president. The rebels then fired on on a Federal Fort in March.

The Yankee invasion started much earlier...and the final warning to end the occupation of the South came on April 12, 1861 when the SC Militia laid into Ft. Sumter in Charleston Harbor, thereby declaring Southern independence. The garrison was given several warnings and had ample opportunity to evacuate the fort...

Less than a century earlier, the American Rebel Insurrection began at Lexington Green, but they were called patriots...for pretty much the same thing.

:D

The Deer Hunter
September 18, 2007, 10:13 PM
Why even bother? I call them magazines, and everyone knows what I'm talking about. Other people call them clips and I know what they mean. I call shotgun shells bullets and everyone knows what I mean.

Novus Collectus
September 18, 2007, 10:22 PM
1911 Tuner, all SOuthern states were members of the Union until late December 1860 when the first state, South Carolina, claimed secession. The Federal presence in those states was legal by even their laws, and when seceding states told Federal troops to leave their states they did so voluntarily except for two forts.
What "invasion" are you talking about? There was no invasion and the insurrectionists acting under orders of an illegal government fired on a commercial ship under the American flag sailing for the United States government.

Say what you will about a justification for the South to secede Constitutionally or economically, but to say the South joined the war because it was defending itself from a Northern invasion is wrong. The South fired the first shots and were the military aggressors at the start.

By the way, initially Virginia almost didn't join the South. :p

rosco22
September 18, 2007, 10:24 PM
I like pie !!! :neener:

Use the right words .

Joe Demko
September 18, 2007, 10:32 PM
So let me see if I have this right: The North, armed with clip drum-fed semiautomatic machineguns, invaded the South which was forced to defend itself with .45 Long Colt assault weapons?
Who had the banana clips?
What happened to the minibike?
Was there pie?
Does John know Martha is pregnant with Jerry's child conceived while she was suffering amnesia?
If Batman had been born in the 1840's, would he have fought for the North or the South?

JWarren
September 18, 2007, 10:35 PM
Am I the only one that has noticed that we've now moved from debating the proper usage of words to justifications for the Civil War?


I was wrong. We MUST have already solved all the world's problems already.


-- John

Novus Collectus
September 18, 2007, 10:36 PM
That's an easy one. Which did the Civil War Gatling take? Magazines, or clips? I am willing to bet they took magazines.

Geronimo45
September 18, 2007, 10:40 PM
So let me see if I have this right: The North, armed with clip drum-fed semiautomatic machineguns, invaded the South which was forced to defend itself with .45 Long Colt assault weapons?
More or less, yes.

Who had the banana clips?
The Cubans. And a few Zouave groups.

What happened to the minibike?
It was shot by Josey Wales.

Was there pie?
Yes.

Does John know Martha is pregnant with Jerry's child conceived while she was suffering amnesia?
Historians are still arguing that one.

If Batman had been born in the 1840's, would he have fought for the North or the South?
Likely the North. He was in 'metropolis', and big cities were mainly a northern thing. I have a feeling that the bat-utility-belt would go best with a stovepipe hat, anyways.

1911Tuner
September 18, 2007, 10:41 PM
Novus. I know. I've been a Civil War buff for many years. It goes all the way back to 1962. I was pokin' ya with a sharp stick.

And my great-grandfathers really were with the Virginia and Alabama regiments. That's what sparked my interest back in '62.
The stories that my parents related to me...the ones that they got from the horses mouths...lit the fire.

Cheers...ya'll. ;)

Novus Collectus
September 18, 2007, 10:45 PM
1911 Tuner, my dad was a virginian. He actually believed Lee never surrenderd his sword at Appomatox and what really happened was that Grant took it from Lee and Lee was too gentlemanly to make a scene about it. :eek:

So out of curiousity, as a CW buff, do you know what they call the feeding device on the Gatlings back in the CW?

1911Tuner
September 18, 2007, 10:46 PM
Am I the only one that has noticed that we've now moved from debating the proper usage of words to justifications for the Civil War?

Nope. The terminology thing has been beat to death numerous times on the board...and nothin' that's been said here hasn't already been said. Guess one dead horse is as good as another... :D

Novus...I believe they called'em...Sticks.

JWarren
September 18, 2007, 10:57 PM
Guess one dead horse is as good as another...


Tuner, I have to put that in my Signature Line!


BTW... for the CW buffs and very off the subject-- but still entertaining...

There is a leather thigh pouch in the Vicksburg Civil War museum that belonged to my Great-Great Grandfather. The interesting thing about the pouch is that there is a bullet hole on one side of it, but no exit hole on the other. He had the pouch full of those hard-tack bisquits. They actually stopped a musket ball that would have wounded him. Take that, Dragon Skin! :)

We donated the pouch several years back.




-- John

strat81
September 18, 2007, 10:58 PM
This thread is still open?

Novus Collectus
September 18, 2007, 10:59 PM
Novus...I believe they called'em...Sticks. :D Now that doesn't help much. :D

Since the first detachable magazines in history seems to be called sticks, from now on I am going to say my pistol takes a stick of .45 ACP. :cool:

jefnvk
September 18, 2007, 11:01 PM
Was there pie?

Yes.


What flavor? Blueberry or apple?

Wayne G.
September 18, 2007, 11:03 PM
nothin' that's been said here hasn't already been said.

I've got one...

My father-in-law recently commented that he wanted to get some clips for his new semi-auto pistol, to which my wife replied, "Clips go in hair, not pistols!"

;)

Jack A. Sol
September 18, 2007, 11:05 PM
Good for you in correcting your languge on this. Too many tv shows make it difficult to discuss things with the laymen accurately

default
September 18, 2007, 11:08 PM
It's not so much a case of "panties in a bunch", but rather a minor "pet peeve". Certainly I would never call anyone out in public for misusing the terms. Plenty of folks who have forgotten more about firearms than I will ever know call magazines "clips", and I think no less of them.

However, "clip" is plainly incorrect when referring to a detachable magazine, no matter popular or ubiquitous it's become, or how unlikely dangerous confusion resulting from misuse of the terms is, and I reserve the right to be ever so mildly annoyed, if only briefly, secretly, and inconsequentially.

eliphalet
September 18, 2007, 11:46 PM
Raisin Pie!

My ancestry on both sides were Confederates, I have a ancestral uncle that never surrendered, some fought in the American Revolution before that.
In many ways we in the West suffer some of the same injustices that the south did over 150 years ago.

Government's, can but man, and power mongers never change.
Hopefully as gun owners and the perils we face as such, some of you will understand, but I fear from plenty of the ideals I read here, many are already part of the problem.

I feel I am a fortunate man to have lived when and where I have. Never in the history of mankind have things in general been better for the everyday man than were/are/when/where my life has been. I fear it will not again anytime soon either.

And we worry if it's a clip or Magazine?

Officers'Wife
September 19, 2007, 12:06 AM
Hi Jwarren,

My family is almost all ex-military. My first experience went something like this:

(stern parental tone) This is an SMLE rifle commonly called a Lee Enfield. The Lee Enfield has a detachable box magazine that is only properly removed for cleaning. The Lee Enfield is loaded with a stripper clip as follows...

Oh, and just for the record... A gun is a smooth bore artillery peice while a small arm (pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun) is a firearm. Myself, I could care less what you call it as long as it's clear what you are refering to.

Selena

JWarren
September 19, 2007, 12:21 AM
I hear ya Selena :)


We aren't a "military" family-- but we have fought in every US war up to Vietnam. We just had to get called up.

In a way, we have a rich history of revolution. As mentioned earlier, My great-great grandfather was a Confederate. Interestingly enough, however, I am named for the first JWarren in the colonies. He fought in the Revolutionary War, and was wounded but survived. He was the first to leave the NE and relocate our family in MS. He is buried in our family cemetary a few miles from my house.

So basically, every chance our family got to secede from something, we did.




My formal firearms training consisted of safety primarily-- i.e. Don't shoot me in the back of the head.


-- John

230RN
September 19, 2007, 01:26 AM
Gawd, I love these threads!

I always learn something and always get a couple of laughs.

Well, disunirregardless of the correctitude, I'm gonna stuff some bullets in my Glock Model 27's stick and load it into the gun's mag slot.

hankpac
September 19, 2007, 01:52 AM
I too am military, and from a military family.
The definitions as stated above (re: clip and Ma) are correct.
I believe that the reason the .45 Thompson mags, and the Marlin (and others) refer to the detachable mags as "Clips" has to do with the single stack, vs staggered stacking of rounds.
The .45 Thompson was single stacked in the ten, 20 and 30 rd mag, and all those 30 carbine 4 shot, and most .22 mags are single stack, and refered to (wether improperly or not) as clips by the company. Staggered stacks are refered to by the company usually as mags.
Lee Ermy's definition is right, however. And stated in a rather quiet manner for him.
I only hang out with people who are properly trained, so my tender ears (which don't hear too well anymore, anyway) are not offended by malappropisms.
BTW, "It's" means possessive, (belonging to "IT"). "It is" is spelled without the apostrophy (its).

Jim Watson
September 19, 2007, 08:00 AM
The .45 Thompson was single stacked in the ten, 20 and 30 rd mag,

Not the couple I have shot. They were double column, staggered feed.

BTW, "It's" means possessive, (belonging to "IT"). "It is" is spelled without the apostrophy (its).

Hmm. Exactly the opposite of what Miss Williams taught me.


You're testing us, right?

Cannonball888
September 19, 2007, 08:05 AM
+2 Miss Williams

230RN
September 19, 2007, 08:40 AM
I believe the only time an apostrophe is used in i-t-s is when it's contracted from "it is."

"Its," the possessive form, is a unitary word all by itself and doesn't need an apostrophe.

Mother Superior Domina Vobuxom taught me that.

And you didn't want to argue with her and her 18" ruler.

WuzYoungOnceToo
September 19, 2007, 10:35 AM
Likely the North. He [Batman] was in 'metropolis'
Doh! Sorry, I'm going to have to deduct 10 points from your score. Metropolis was home to Superman. Batman did his crime-fighting in Gotham City.

Hawk
September 19, 2007, 10:53 AM
Mother Superior Domina Vobuxom taught me that.

I believe she taught my 4th grade class, but this was prior to her promotion. We may have gone to different schools together.

For us hobby rocketry types, a magazine is where we stash our propellant grains. Typically, a type 4, subject to BATFE inspection. I'm mostly out of the hobby now as it got considerably more complicated after 9/11.

They do, however, have an appearance which precludes confusing them with clips:
http://www.usexplosive.com/photos/ML801-2.jpg

They're also handy for storing one's magazines. I keep my 1911 magazines and my older RC Model magazines in my magazine.

Geronimo45
September 19, 2007, 11:12 AM
Metropolis was home to Superman. Batman did his crime-fighting in Gotham City.
Right... but Gotham City is simply a borough of Metropolis. :p

alucard0822
September 19, 2007, 11:34 AM
Could alway call them what my grampa did, A WORLD OF HURT, but never put your clips in a magwell

Much like the great commonwealth of Virginia, Batman soon realized the opressive north needed to be taught a lesson, and being the purveyor of justice he is, joined forces with R. E. LEE to repel the yankee occupation.

I belive they favored sweet potato pie.

Thread should have been titled "grab a stick and stand in line, this dead horse needs a beatin' " :neener:


and Han solo could no doubt beat Will Reicher in a fight, but the smart money is on warf over chewbacca.

CountGlockula
September 19, 2007, 11:38 AM
How did mag & clips morphed into Batman & Superman?

Joe Demko
September 19, 2007, 12:01 PM
In a few of the older stories, Batman used a magazine-fed semiautomatic pistol and had a belt-fed machinegun on his auto-gyro (early iteration of the Batplane). In a few of his early stories, from when he was a lot less super, Superman was depicted holding an artillery piece (i.e. a gun) under his arm and basically firing it from the hip.
Whether either of them had anything to do with the minibike is sealed until 2065.
Their preferences in pie have never been clarified.
Superman's father was named John and Batman's mother was named Martha; Jerry remains one of history's mysterious figures.
So, as you can see, it was a perfectly logical progression from clips and magazines to super heroes.

Wheeler44
September 19, 2007, 12:47 PM
Bloody H--l !!! The cartidge, Mk7, goes into the charger, which goes into the bandoleer until you ,the lowly private, are ordered to load your weapon. At which time you will insert the contents of two (2) chargers into the magazine of your S.M.L.E., then you will rotate the magazine cutoff plate into position and prepare to fire single shot, until ORDERED to disconnect the magazine cutoff plate and fire using the magazine. The magazine is only to be removed for cleaning and service of the weapon. Keep a stiff upper lip and all that.

1911Tuner
September 19, 2007, 01:24 PM
Right... but Gotham City is simply a borough of Metropolis.

Aw, sheepdip! If Gotham had been that close to Metropolis...why call Batman when Superman is right up the road? It'd be like bringin' a zip gun to an artillery duel.

Gawd! I just love these dead horse discussions!

http://www.wtv-zone.com/jnib/gifs/smilies/laugh.gif

Joe Demko
September 19, 2007, 02:01 PM
Metropolis is supposed to be Chicago, they say. Gotham, IIRC, is supposed to be Weirton WV.

MinnMooney
September 19, 2007, 03:04 PM
I thank all of the purists in THR for setting me straight about clips as opposed to magazines. I really didn't know that there was a difference and never really thought about it. Now I know and like someone said earlier, "As long as you know the diff, why not use the correct terms?" That makes sense to me and so I shall from now on.

I've worked with concrete for 30 years and teach classes about concrete so inspectors can be certified. Cement is a dry powder consisting of super-fine particles that gets mixed with sand, various sized gravel and water to form concrete. When someone says, "Hey, let's pour some cement and make a sidewalk.", I cringe!! Just like an armament expert would cringe when someone interchanges clip with magazine.

Let's all just call the items by their correct names even if someone else knows what we mean when we say it wrong.

In the mean time, I think that I'll take a lunch break and eat a magazine..... er, I mean a ham sammich.*

* See post #4.

El Tejon
September 19, 2007, 03:05 PM
Yes, but oddly in the movies the city flag for Gotham is the state flag of Indiana. Thus, Indianapolis=Gotham, I knew evil was afoot there!:what:

230RN
September 19, 2007, 03:08 PM
Count Glockula axed:

How did mag & clips morphed into Batman & Superman?

And morphed again into a CW discussion.

The same way the language morphs.

EXAMPLE: Betcha can't find "morph" as a verb in an early (say, 1982) dictionary.


And Minn Mooney opined:

Clip vs mag is like concrete vs cement

So a clip is a cured mag? Or just a mag mixed with water and aggregate?

Joe Demko
September 19, 2007, 03:17 PM
Neither magazines nor clips morph.
Nor Batman nor Superman nor R.E. Lee
Power Rangers morph, though.
Sometimes the Power Rangers have guns.
But I don't think the Power Rangers live in Indiana.
Therefore, since Power Rangers and English morph, the Power Rangers are from England and probably like shepherd's pie.

cnorman18
September 19, 2007, 03:30 PM
I've never, not once, seen a use of the word "clip" for "magazine" where it might actually lead to confusion. If anyone starts making a 1911 or Glock that loads from a stripper clip, I'll get worried.

If one is that concerned about precision in casual communication, I would expect never to see the word "bike" applied to a motorcycle, "gun" to any small arm, or "balls" to testicles...

El Tejon
September 19, 2007, 03:32 PM
Several of the Power Rangers were arrested in Indiana. They were out drinking after trainning at Atterbury with SEAL Team 8 when they had their stand off with the Indianapolis Police Department. With the Power Rangers against them, IPD had no chance and had to call Batman.

Joe Demko
September 19, 2007, 03:33 PM
Was there pie?

Nameless_Hobo
September 19, 2007, 04:10 PM
Why not just call them magazine? It won't hurt you to use a correct term. Yes, this is the correct term no matter what the police report dated to 80 years ago says, why?
Because language changes and now we no longer interchange the terms and concider it correct. Same thing with pistols versus revolvers, or rifle, firearm or gun. At one time all were correct, but it doesn't hurt to be specific.

Remington still uses "magazine clips" so that the fuddley ones won't be left saying "Now why's Remington selling books, but not extrey clips?"

230RN
September 19, 2007, 04:22 PM
JABBERWOCKY
Lewis Carroll
(from Through the Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There, 1872)

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

"And, hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

Cannonball888
September 19, 2007, 04:38 PM
Bison are not buffalo
Vultures are not buzzards
Pills are neither tablets nor capsules
Magazines are not clips

Welcome to the world of american misnomers

Joe Demko
September 19, 2007, 04:47 PM
My teechers tryed to learn me that pie are square.
Pie are not square!
Pie are round!
Cake are square.
Teechers are dumm.

ConfuseUs
September 19, 2007, 05:11 PM
Consider this, if you will: In WWII, a GI armed with an M1 carbine might run out of ammo in a firefight, and call for his buddy to "throw me an M1 clip!" If his buddy was armed with an M1 Garand, the "M1 clip" he would have in his ammo belt pocket would be totally incompatible with his buddy's carbine. That's why drill sergeants would beat the distinction into recruits, so that imprecise terminology/nomenclature wouldn't cause potentially fatal problems like this.

I don't know what the Drill Instructors pounded into the heads of WWII recruits, but couldn't the poor bastage armed with a carbine yell out to his buddy "Gimme a carbine CLIP!" and reasonably expect to get a magazine of carbine ammo instead of an 8 rd clip of 30-06?

alucard0822
September 19, 2007, 05:16 PM
My teechers tryed to learn me that pie are square.
Pie are not square!
Pie are round!
Cake are square.
Teechers are dumm.

then what the H&!! are these (attatched) German chocolate cake & italian easter pie


Metropolis is supposed to be Chicago, they say. Gotham, IIRC, is supposed to be Weirton WV.
hence why chicago needs an invincible alien who can move at the speed of light to protect it's disarmed populous, Weirton has a guy in a cape who built his own jet powered car, seems about right.

rcmodel
September 19, 2007, 05:25 PM
And my AR-15 Magazines take Clips, if you use the little stripper-clip loader gizzys that clip on the magazines.

BTW: I am of the correct terminology camp.
If you know the difference, try to use the right term, at least most of the time.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Officers'Wife
September 19, 2007, 05:40 PM
Hi Tejon,

Yes, but oddly in the movies the city flag for Gotham is the state flag of Indiana. Thus, Indianapolis=Gotham, I knew evil was afoot there!

Which only goes to prove you can't believe what you see in the movies. How can you have a "Bat-Cave" in an area with no mountains?

Sheesh! Guys and their comic book characters! :(

Selena

J_Dillinger
September 19, 2007, 11:16 PM
Guys, you're wearing me out........but nevermind, I can't make my point clear enough. Guess I'll just transport back to the 1920's - steal a Buick - rob a bank and be happy that my Thompson empties a 30-rnd CLIP faster than you can say go ! :neener:

Thompsons, generally looted from small town police stations, along with early-day body armor were a favorite item for Public Enemy No.1, John Dillinger. The Dillinger-Nelson gang, along with their sometimes-cohort, Charles Arthur "Pretty Boy" Floyd (Oklahoma's contribution to the blemishes on the backside of society) liked to carry Thompsons with the buttstock removed and a 20-round clip in place of the familiar drum magazine. This way the gun could be concealed under an overcoat, and, if shooting was involved, fired one-handed, leaving the other hand free to carry loot, grab hostages, or steer the getaway car.

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_ao.html

As for other links to previous examples, they have better support as 'primary' examples because they were written in the 1930's ....way before anyone here was old enough to say the word 'gun'.....

Sheesh......I'm just trying to re-established a period slang word that has been obliterated and replaced with modern 'lingo' thought of as 'correct' by firearm wannabe experts.......:barf: .......it's ok.....really.

I didn't choose Dillinger by accident ~wink~ say hi to the ladies and children.........I'll escape out the back door now. :cool:

Novus Collectus
September 20, 2007, 01:32 AM
Ok let's take this down to the nitty gritty. For those people who call a magazine a clip, would you call a stripper clip, a moon clip, an M1 enbloc clip or a Mannlicher clip a magazine?
The two terms are not equally interchangeable by a long shot, so why not use the proper terms the way they are currently used?

Now I am sure in the 1920's they called Thompson magazine clips sometimes, but I also bet back then some people who wrote manuals and such thought it was ok to say they loaded "bullets" in those same clips.

JWarren
September 20, 2007, 07:47 AM
Now I am sure in the 1920's they called Thompson magazine clips sometimes, but I also bet back then some people who wrote manuals and such thought it was ok to say they loaded "bullets" in those same clips.


The thing is they still do it in the 2000's.


-- John

ranger335v
September 20, 2007, 12:47 PM
Mr. Dillinger, you may, with impunity, call your rifle a gun, your cartridges bullets, your detachable magazine a clip, your shooting sling a strap, a slob bushwacker a sniper, a black semi-auto rifle an assualt rifle, a web site a sight, gun sights sites, etc., as you wish. You may substitute there for their, your for you're, mine for mind, etc., as you wish.

But using the wrong term is always bad grammer, at best, or ignorance. It conveys to those who know what you are saying that you don't or, at best, are poorly educated. That (accurate) impression bothers some folks, doesn't bother others. Guess it's a matter of today's public educational philosophy where each of us stands on the question.

Jimmy Newman
September 20, 2007, 03:26 PM
The fact that you can find other instances of people who should know better making the same mistake that you are making doesn't mean it isn't a mistake :).

Bazooka Joe71
September 20, 2007, 03:42 PM
<sigh> post #132, and still no end in sight...Only here.

Gotta love it!:D

Hawk
September 20, 2007, 05:27 PM
Gotta love it!

Sure do!

I simplified my life a while back - I assume that most people mixing "clip" for "magazine" do so without malice. They're my gunnie buddies hence no need for me to say / post anything.

However, there exists a minority of those who transpose the terms who do so out of nothing other than black-hearted malice. They do it to stir up long dead issues and hose a bunch of bandwidth. They often cite the mistakes of others as justification for their actions, knowing full well most of us had parents that delighted in pointing out that "just because little Johnny jumps off the roof doesn't mean you should". They know this, yet persist. Some accuse them of being related to genus Bridgis Trollicus but this is needlessly harsh and only accurate in a very few cases.

In the later case, I won't say or post a correction as the absence of the correction denies them the attention they so desperatly crave.

So, whether the torturing of the language is done with or without malice, the response stays the same: silence. This is particularly handy as it's impossible to tell which type you might be dealing with.

Of course, all the above is meaningless should I accidently hit the "submit reply" button and thus prolong everyone's agony...

OOPS

Joe Demko
September 20, 2007, 06:25 PM
But using the wrong term is always bad grammer

Grammar.

ranger335v
September 20, 2007, 08:48 PM
Gotcha! Said tongue in cheek, but you made my point...:

Quote: "But using the wrong term is always bad grammer." Grammar.

J_Dillinger
September 20, 2007, 09:21 PM
Well, I got another box clip in the mail, elongated the catch slot (hole) and it now fits perfectly.

You guys all missed the point of being 'period correct' but I know that it's not about re-enacting or history or seeing the 'white elephant' .....oops, now did I stump ya ? :neener:

ANyhow, I'm a well edjamucated skolar of infinight decree and whut must be........well jist IS........:D

230RN
September 23, 2007, 12:19 AM
Did somebody above mispell "assualt gun" incorrectly?

In the 1960s a friend of mine wrote an article entitled "Survival Kit in a Clip," referring to the 1911 magazine, for a major firearms magazine.

No editor, proofreader, fact checker, publisher, or reader objected to it.

Novus Collectus
September 23, 2007, 12:39 AM
Did somebody above mispell "assualt gun" incorrectly?

In the 1960s a friend of mine wrote an article entitled "Survival Kit in a Clip," referring to the 1911 magazine, for a major firearms magazine.

No editor, proofreader, fact checker, publisher, or reader objected to it.
__________________ They are not magazines......they are periodicals. :D

230RN
September 23, 2007, 01:04 AM
^^^^

Very good. :)

I was going to add that in the middle ages, many words which one should not put in print nowadays were quite common.

Some of them even appeared in early editions of the Bible, and have since been modified to reflect today's sensibilities, and you won't find them in modern editions.

So. "Correctness" varies with time and taste.

Upshot: Don't "correct" someone. Point out the modern preferred usage, if you will, but don't pulpitize that it is the only "correct" way.

eliphalet
September 23, 2007, 01:16 AM
gauge gage
colour color

So,, did the periodical have an article about magazines called clips?
Duzitmatter? Not!

XD Fan
September 23, 2007, 01:21 AM
I can't beleive this one is still going.

Ah, well!

Dr. Dickie
September 23, 2007, 06:51 AM
I simplified my life a while back - I assume that most people mixing "clip" for "magazine" do so without malice. They're my gunnie buddies hence no need for me to say / post anything.

I don't think anyone assumes malice (ya, I know you were kidding!); however, I see no problem with correcting someone.
My pet peeve is when people call a chimpanzee a monkey,:banghead: drives me crazy! Would you let someone call a tiger a lion without correction? They are a lot closer than a monkey and an ape--by the way we're are closer to chimpanzees than monkeys, so calling a chimp a human is more correct than calling them a monkey!
Chastity is used for celibacy by just about everyone. Almost anyone that uses the term fascist, has no clue as what it means.
They do it from ignorance. This is how good words get lost from our language.
We are all ignorant about something, some are ignorant about most thinks, stupid is when ignorance meets stubbornness, and the person is to stubborn to change even though they know they are wrong (none of that is directed at you Hawk, just ranting for a bit).
Perhaps a word should be lost, but I for one like the precision of the English language. It is that very precision (a word for every little variable thing) that makes English the language that is slowly taking over the world (remember when they said EVERYONE had to learn to speak Spanish because in 20 years you would have to).
I'll call a clip a clip, a magazine a magazine, and gently point out the difference to anyone that cares.
Heck, what else do I have to do with my life, might as well be a gadfly--just keep away from Hemlock!

alucard0822
September 23, 2007, 07:12 AM
Mr. Dillinger, you may, with impunity, call your rifle a gun, your cartridges bullets, your detachable magazine a clip, your shooting sling a strap, a slob bushwacker a sniper, a black semi-auto rifle an assualt rifle, a web site a sight, gun sights sites, etc., as you wish. You may substitute there for their, your for you're, mine for mind, etc., as you wish.


Did somebody above mispell "assualt gun" incorrectly?

NO, not at all, he either correctly misspelt or spelled incorrectly. If one were to incorrectly misspell, it would indicate that Mr. Ranger335v was unsuccessful in his attempt to misspell, and by default spelled the word correctly with the unrealized intention of misspelling. Hence the gramatical error of the double negative in the post about mispelling


Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!

Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case!

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, then mags are mags and clips are clips, mags are not clips and clips are not mags.:neener:

230RN
September 23, 2007, 10:05 AM
alucard0822


Did somebody above mispell "assualt gun" incorrectly?


NO, not at all, he either correctly misspelt or spelled incorrectly. If one were to incorrectly misspell, it would indicate that Mr. Ranger335v was unsuccessful in his attempt to misspell, and by default spelled the word correctly with the unrealized intention of misspelling. Hence the gramatical error of the double negative in the post about mispelling

Oh, sorry. Let me correct myself: Assualt rifle.

)Thanks for the great laugh this shiny Sunday morning on the first day of Uatumn, alucard0822!(

eliphalet
September 23, 2007, 10:34 AM
We are all ignorant about something, some are ignorant about most thinks,Well, lets be sure and not monkey around ending up using an incorrect word.

alucard0822
September 23, 2007, 10:54 AM
)Thanks for the great laugh this shiny Sunday morning on the first day of Uatumn, alucard0822!(

your ewlcome:)

Well, lets be sure and not monkey around ending up using an incorrect word.
no CHIMP' ing around;)

(I appolagise, I have been at work since 5 and have had biblical ammounts of coffee, only 6 hours to go)

BlackBearME
October 28, 2007, 01:30 AM
Hrmmm.....

I'm a pedant. I admit it.
It does make me irritated when people who know the difference don't bother. It's one thing if you don't know. That's when correction is necessary.
I was very much impressed with TX1911fan's analogy. You wouldn't let someone call a carb a fuel injector, or vice versa, especially when they should know better. Least, I wouldn't.
But, after reading this thread, I think I'll lay off a little on the correcting.

Hrmm, so if I can't be pedantic about mag vs. clip.....
I've got something else.

JWarren:
...and the Pope is still in Rome.

Actually, he's in Vatican City.:neener:

Dustinthewind
October 28, 2007, 10:28 AM
Wellll....

A throttle body injection is kind of like a carburetor:) at least in looks on some of the first ones. As far as the magazine vs. clip thing, I personally call them magazines, however I have seen gun books call all sorts of autoloaders clip fed guns and these are guns that take what we would term a magazine in these days of political correctness. :p I don't know when the official terminology changed, I would guess sometime in the mid 80's, as I have many gun books from the early 80's that seem to interchange the two terms.

Wayne G.
October 28, 2007, 12:54 PM
I guess it's a Halloween thing--

"Return of the Undead Threads"

bluestarlizzard
October 28, 2007, 06:10 PM
i used to correct people when i was a kid (same with silencer/supressor). i mostly gave up. however, i do tend to prefer people to use presice terminology, unless your just joking around.

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