[silverlance]

so apparently loading BP cartridges is dangerous and not advised.
How about loading cowboy cartridges? not smokeless powder, but something light? what do the factories use in their own cowboy loads?

kev

[oneshooter]

so apparently loading BP cartridges is dangerous and not advised

Where did you come across this gem of information?
I guess I have just been lucky the last 20+ years.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[KI.W.]

Special powder for Cowboy Action Shooters VihtaVuori "Tin Star" / N-32C-powder. Low bulk density = less free space in the case

[KI.W.]

Special powder for Cowboy Action Shooters VihtaVuori "Tin Star" / N-32C-powder. Low bulk density = less free space in the case

[KI.W.]

:banghead:

[Bad Flynch]

>so apparently loading BP cartridges is dangerous and not advised.<

Nonsense. Just exercise common sense.

[Pulp]

Trail Boss is another excellent choice for .45. A double charge will fill the case so much it is obvious to a blind man.

[mykeal]

so apparently loading BP cartridges is dangerous and not advised.

Climbing a ladder is dangerous and not advised.

For some people.

Shooting sports are dangerous and not advised.

For some people.

Driving to work in the morning is dangerous and not advised.

Again, for some people.

As in any endeavor more complicated than getting out of bed in the morning (like avoiding a fall in the bathroom) you need to use common sense and take some care. With respect to loading bp cartridges, get some education and use the right tools.

Sheesh. Does that really have to be explained???

[English Bob]

What, no way, where did that come from?

[silverlance]

heh, didn't mean to spark y'all off. i'm new to this. some other poster before me said as much, and no one contradicted him, so i figured it must be true. that, and the guys at every gun store i go to tell me that bp is a class 3(b?) explosive, etc, and that it's just too dangerous to mess with it even in a bp hg, let alone loading it into cartridges.

[BigBlock]

that, and the guys at every gun store i go to tell me that bp is a class 3(b?) explosive, etc, and that it's just too dangerous to mess with it even in a bp hg, let alone loading it into cartridges.

More proof that the guys at the gun store are not to be trusted. Absolute nonsense, BP is not anymore dangerous than modern powders. As long as you're not smoking/welding/grinding metal where you're loading, you're safe. It's close to impossible to ignite BP using static electricity. Loading BP shells is no more dangerous than loading a BP revolver...

[mykeal]

I'd be finding myself another gun store, one where the guys knew what they were talking about.

Real black powder is classified as an explosive by BATFE; smokeless powder is not. Insurance companies do require the retailers to take extra precautions when storing it; some states also require extra measures. The reason is that real black powder does have a lower flash point than smokeless powder. It is very slightly 'easier' to ignite than smokeless powder.

However, it is handled daily all across the country by literally hundreds of thousands of people with no, repeat NO, ill effects.

Ask your expert at this gun store how 150,000 people manage to get through the muzzleloader season in Michigan each year without blowing somebody up. And that's just a small sample - add in all the other states with muzzleloader seasons. Add in the hundreds of thousands of cowboy action shooters and reenactors. How do they manage to do it?

And as for the other posting where your unchallenged quote came from: please provide a link and I'll be happy to provide that idiot with an education. He/she surely needs one.

[DixieTexian]

Reloading Black Powder is dangerous and not advised

I found it! :neener:

[Bad Flynch]

Purchasing, storing, and selling BP is expensive for sporting goods stores and, therefore, is not recommended by them. Since it really is classed as an explosive, they have increased insurance rates, special storage requirements, and must keep records of the sales. All of that adds up to an unwillingness to handle the stuff.

Kick the sporting goods store habit, order your own online, and have it shipped directly to your home; cut out the middle-man.

[silverlance]

rofl dixie, i hope you had a good time with the egg hunt!

that said.. can someone give me a very brief run down on how they (personally) load 45 LC?

[Misfire99]

I have never loaded a 45lc before but if I can extrapolate from the forty five seventy you just measure how much space the bullet will take up in the case. Then fill the rest of the case with black powder. Find out how much this is in terms of volume and repeat for the next case. With the forty five seventy you get guys using compression dies, drop tubes, paper patched bullets, lube cookie and a hole bunch of other goodies. But for the forty five Long Colt just fill the case full for every cartridge and blast away.

Accuracy is a matter of consistency. A 45LC is not going to be shooting a thousand yards to try and hit a steel buffalo. Shots are up close and personal. So just get the pill out of the bore the same every time and you got it made.

[sundance44s]

About all I can add on the case full of black powder compressed ...bullet choice will have a large bearing on what size groups they will shoot ...and there`s a lot to chose from ...In my pistols ( 1858 Remmies with conversion cyl ) 250 or 255 gr bullets fly the straightest .
In my rifle ( Henry ) anything from a 180 gr up is good .
Pyrodex P and Goex 3f both shoot pretty much the same in 45 LC ..the Pyrodex P is a little hotter ( 50 fps ) out of my pistols ..haven`t run any through the crono from my Henry yet .

[silverlance]

thanks mis and sun, that was exactly what i needed to know.
by the way, these use standard pistol primers, right? no "blackpowder primer"?

i have an 1858 remmie with R&D cyl. 3Fg, fill the case up, seat the bullet. sounds like it's not to difficult!

[English Bob]

I loaded for the 45LC for quite some time. I simply used Swiss No.2 powder, got the charge by measuring the powder height so I could seat a bullet with a single .030 card wad and away I went. Used standard primers and very little crimp.

[oneshooter]

Just remember to use a BP lube on the bullets. Modern lube causes a horrable gunk to form. A 50/50 mix of Bore Butter and beeswax works well.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[silverlance]

how about the Lee BP lube?

[zxcvbob]

heh, didn't mean to spark y'all off. i'm new to this. some other poster before me said as much, and no one contradicted him, so i figured it must be true. that, and the guys at every gun store i go to tell me that bp is a class 3(b?) explosive, etc, and that it's just too dangerous to mess with it even in a bp hg, let alone loading it into cartridges.

BP is regulated as an explosive, so the gun shops don't want to fool with it; too many regulations. There are also limits to how much you can legally own; maybe as low as 2 or 3 pounds. Pyrodex and other BP substitutes are regulated like smokeless powder. I like Hodgdon's "777", but it's kind of expensive.

If you can find some real BP, it's really not much more dangerous to handle than smokeless powder.

Bob

[oneshooter]

The Lee lube is too wet for a cartridge round. The lube needs to be heavy enough ( thick?) to stay on the bullet while handeling and loading. The bees wax could be mixed in to stiffen it. Use a double boiler to heat and mix it. When it is mixed place the bullets in , up to the top of the grease groove and let it harden. You will be able to remove them after the lube has cooled.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[English Bob]

SPG worked fine for me, but the suggestion by oneshooter of the 50:50 mix of Wonderlube or Bore Butter to yellow beeswax works just fine too IMHO.

[flibuste]

As for primer, I think it is recommended (e.g.by M. Venturino) to use magnum ones for handgun BP cartridges.......

[sundance44s]

I use Large/magnum pistol primmers for my 45 colt loading . Never a problem with ignition .

[Father Knows Best]

I've used both standard and magnum LP primers to load black powder .45 Colt, and I've never been able to tell much of a difference. I've been working my way through 5,000 Winchester Large Pistol primers, and they seem to work just fine.

As others have said, it's a simple matter of filling the case. Personally, my procedure is first to measure the seating depth of the bullet in an empty case. I mark a wooden dowel with the depth, and then meaure back 1/8 of an inch. I set the powder measure on my Dillon 550 to drop enough powder so that seating the bullet results in compression of the powder by the aforesaid 1/8 of an inch.

I use Goex FFg or Goex Cowboy in .45 Colt, with standard or magnum large pistol primers. For lube, I've been very happy with a simple homemade brew -- 50/50 beeswax and crisco. It is soft enough that I don't need a heater to run it through my Star Lube-Sizer, but firm enough that it stays in the lube groove until I can get the bullet seated.

[silverlance]

sigh* it looks like my plan for shooting LC on the cheap isn't going to work out. here's the list of what i've been recommended to buy so far:

1. powder measure
2. magnum primers / large primers pistol
3. FFg (isn't that rifle bp?), FFFg (goex calls this pistol powder)
4. a block of beeswax
5. a can of crisco
6. something to melt and mix them in
7. a star lube-sizer (dont even know what that is)
8. .030 card wads (no idea what these are.. are they the same as the little disc wads for use in BP percussion shooting?)
9. and of course the press, dies, tumbler, etc

dangit! well, ill start saving up.

now how about regular bp percussion? i went to the store today and they didn't carry any percussion caps for my 1858 pietta remmie. can i order them from grafs as well?

[English Bob]

Whoa there Silverlance

When you put it like that it does look daunting, really daunting and costly.

POWDER MEASURE - Sure, in an ideal world and it really should be black powder specific, ie non-static hopper. However, it's possible to use a scoop, you can even make one out of an old case. Loading each case may be slower but it's safe enough to get you going. I use a powder measure, but still use a 'Drop Tube' to put the powder into the case....it's a slow process, but worth it when you see how accurate you can get these old smokers to shoot

POWDER & PRIMERS - No way round this one buddy unless you want to try making the powder! :)

BEESWAX, CRISCO & MELTING POT - Well just buy a block of SPG to start with, it works and should be easy for you to get over there, I have to import it!

LUBRISIZER - You can apply the lube by hand, it works but is slow and messy. You can pan-lube your bullets....you sit your cast bullets in a flat baking try or something similar with a good all-round edge and pour in the melted lube until it fills the grooves. Once it cools you simply cut the bullets out, remove the excess lube and bingo lubed bullets. However, for pistol size bullets it can also be messy. The LUBESIZER/LUBRISIZER (can't remember what's correct) is by far the easiest way to lube and size your cast bullets. It's very fast and the actual machine for the job do not cost a fortune, you might be able to pick one up second-hand too. I'm personally not familiar with the Star, but Lyman, RCBS and SAECO all make good machines for the job. I've had a Lyman for 16 years now and it's still going strong.

CARD WADS - Again I buy 'em, but I use to make them. I used milk cartons and a .45 wad punch, the punches are cheap and the milk cartons are even cheaper. When you buy them, they are available in .030 or .060, it's up to you what you use, but the main function is to protect the base of your bullet.

PRESS, DIES, TUMBLER - You can't really do without the first two, but the tumbler can wait, you can simple clean the cases in soap and water. They will look a touch grubby but as long as they are clean you're good to go. Have a look around, eBay or Gunbroker often have some good deals on presses and die sets S/H and new.

If you take a look here http://www.buffaloarms.com/ you'll be able to order nearly anything you want for all your BP needs, great bunch of guys too and they give out some great free advice.....give 'em a call.

[Misfire99]

It doesn't really cost that much is you go the poor mans route. And that's the way I started. I started with a single stage press. You can get one as cheap as $20. Here's a link:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=807734&t=11082005

Then you need dies. You can get a set for about $20. Here's a link:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=159803&t=11082005


Or if you really want it cheaper you can get a kit from Lee that uses a hammer instead of a press for about $15. No need to buy a press or dies. Here is a link:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=647702&t=11082005

So if you go with the Lee Classic Loader all you then need is powder and primers. The cheapest primers are Wolf at a thousand for under $20. Here is a link:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=137331&t=11082005

Midway does not sell black powder but they do sell black powder substitutes. It you go that route I would suggest using triple seven. You get more bang for your buck. It's about %15 more powerful then black. Here is a link:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=449950&t=11082005

But if you do order black or a substitute you will have to pay hazmat fee for shipping. The shipping companies add their own "tax" on us in in the form of a hazmat fee. It's $20 so buy enough to make that not such a big deal. With a pound of powder costing $20 and the hazmat at $20 if you only order one pound that pound costs $40. So when I buy online I but at lest five to six pounds to make it worth it.

If you want to use overpowder wad go to the hardware store and get a hole punch that is used to make holes for gaskets. You can then use an old milk carton or even get some cork gasket material.

So not counting the powder you are ready to rock and roll for under a hundred dollars. If you can get black powder, or triple seven, locally you don't have to pay hazmat you are on your way to make noise and smoke. For less then a good meal out with your babe.

Good luck to you. This is one of the must fun things I have ever done with my clothes on.

[sundance44s]

I`ll second the loading cheap ...I started hand loading the 45lc with a 12 dollar Lee hand loader set ...slow but it works . I had more time than money .

[Father Knows Best]

+1 to English Bob. I'm the one who mentioned the Star Lube-sizer and the crisco/beeswax, and I didn't tell you to buy anything. I mentioned the crisco/beeswax because it's a lot cheaper to make your own lube than to buy SPG or other commercial lube. That is, it's cheaper if you're making it by the pound, as I am. You don't need to buy a double boiler to make your own lube, but if you do, they cost about $10-15 at Wal-Mart.

I use a Star lube-size to size and lube my bullets, but as others have pointed out, that's not a necessity. You can buy bullets that are already sized, and pan lube them in your oven. Or, you can buy bullets that already have a black powder compatible lube.

Black powder will be more expensive to load and shoot than smokeless, in part because you'll use more of it. BP costs me around $12-15 pound, while smokeless pistol powder costs a little more, but I'll use 30-35 grains of black powder in a .45 Colt case, vs. 4-6 grains of most smokeless powders. Thus, I only get 200-233 shots per pound of black powder, and 1200-1700 shots per pound of smokeless. It's worth it, though. The big old BOOM and cloud of smoke is awesome, and worth the higher cost.

[oneshooter]

A lee bullet sizer fits on your press and works well.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1191364365.2405=/html/catalog/lubesize.html

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[Millwright]

SL,
Lots of very good suggestions, IMO! About all I'd add is BP can generate a static charge when handled - and the finer the powder the easier it spark ignites. Not a common problem - particularly with the larger granulations used in cartridges. But, like chain fires and hang fires, one you don't want to experience first hand.

I'd also avoid powder dispensers intended for smokeless as their cutting action could ignite BP. None of this means you can't reload with BP on a progressive press as most press mfgs offer mods to use BP. Most CASS competitors don't much use BP because of the smoke, recoil and fouling it seems. Too bad, it takes something away from the concept IMO. Not everything has to be 'quicker, easier, more convenient' ...... >MW

[AntiqueCollector]

now how about regular bp percussion? i went to the store today and they didn't carry any percussion caps for my 1858 pietta remmie. can i order them from grafs as well?

Grafs charges the haz mat fee on primers just like powder. Dixie gun works doesn't so I order caps and such from them, powder from Grafs...

[Misfire99]

Regarding static electricity setting off black powder is something that I was wondering about. I did some research online and came up with this site:
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

It is some guy trying to get BP to explode with electricity. Static electricity wouldn't do it.

[English Bob]

+1 Misfire99

Excellent article. I've always stuck with tradition and used all the non-static BP specific gear purely due to what I've read and heard. Come to think of it, I've never heard of anyone having their powder measure go up with a bang due to static....this would seem to back that up.

[mykeal]

-1.

You might go back and look at the posts in this same thread around the 27th of September.

My earlier comments regarding that article still apply. The experiment is insufficient to demonstrate whether or not static electricity is an issue. The test simply has too many holes in it.

One that I should have mentioned in my earlier comments is the lack of control of current. Simply using high voltage is meaningless - voltage determines whether the dielectric strength is sufficient to cause a spark, but the energy transmitted by the spark is a function of current. The spark must not only occur, which is determined by the dielectric strength of the gap between the anode/cathode pair, it must contain enough power to heat the materials, which is a function of current available, and in this case it clearly did not.

That does not deal with the result that would be obtained with a higher energy spark. The experiment might have more meaning if he had addressed the issue of how the spark is generated instead of just hypothesizing that his gas igniter replicated one simple source.

My message: it can happen, and precaution (not outright avoidance) is advisable.

[Millwright]

Well a good many years of experience indicates precautions against static electricity when working with BP are a wise precaution - at least if you're working with firewarks and stuffing rockets, etc......Which is the gensis of most of the regs/lore, BTW.

Despite a lot of improvement in how BP is manufactured I'll stick by my statement regarding the granulation size/risk. The really fine granulations have particular applications and are not used in cartridge loading - but sh**happens and a little care costs nothing or next to it. I don't think BP is inherently "more dangerous" than smokeless, just that its properties indicate a tad more care in handling/storage/use is a wise precaution.

Or, to put it another way; "Ordinance Rules Are Written In Blood" - on a sign I saw posted over the entrance to an armory. >MW

[English Bob]

It would be intresting to know how many incidents of non- BP powder measures exploding have actually been reported.

Even now I do speak with fellow BP shooters who still risk using a standard smokeless measure.

There must have been accidents in the past, why else do Lyman etc always state on their smokless powder measures 'Do not use with black powder'.

There has to be some evidence that static will cause it to ignite somewhere.

[Steve499]

why else do Lyman etc always state on their smokless powder measures 'Do not use with black powder'.

Corrosion? I've got a powder measure with b.p. in it that I haven't emptied completely for a year or better. It's RCBS I believe. It isn't specifically for b.p. as far as I know. The last time I used it a couple of weeks ago, I noticed the operation seemed rough and resolved to empty it and see what was up with that. Alas, I have procrastinated but this thread may induce me to take care of it today.

I worry exactly as much about getting launched by a static electrically ignited explosion when I'm loading b.p. as I do when I'm gassing the pickup. Not a lot. I would imagine if anyone at all was getting accidental b.p. explosions, the hue and cry raised by our anti-gun, anti-hunting, hysterically P.C. media would be loud, long and pretty much unmissable. The reloader would be portrayed as a right wing bomb maker at worst and as a stupid red neck cretin at best. The powder manufacturers have explosions from time to time but I've never heard of one at Joe six-pack's place.

[Jim Watson]

Elmer Keith recommended learning to handload with black powder on the grounds that because the correct load is a case full, there is no risk of overcharging. But that was 50+ years ago. Now there is so much information and equipment for loading smokeless, I think you would be better off to start in nitro. After you have loaded a few pounds of Unique, Trail Boss, American Select, or whatthehellever other powder you pick from the many that are recommended, then learn the requirements for putting together good black powder ammunition.

I shoot a little BPCR and when I started I was glad to know how everything operated so I could concentrate on casting good bullets and actually loading the black properly. If I'd had to learn how to operate the equipment, too, it would have been a much bigger challenge.

I find it amusing that Lyman marks their powder measure "not for black powder" considering that the original No 5, as upgraded into the No 55, was meant for black and the cryptic graduation numbers on the slides are still black powder calibrations determined a hundred years ago.

[English Bob]

Corrosion can be a real problem with even the BP specific powder measures. The Lyman measure I use really needs the rotating drum taking out and storing seperately. Even with a slight residue of BP dust, it can end up with rust between the body and the drum. It has the aluminium non-sparking hopper, but a steel body with brass slides on the actual drum, others may be far better and made totally of brass? Intresting about the markings still hailing from the black powder period though.

It's not actually marked on my smokeless measure 'Not For Black Powder' but it's in the literature that comes with it. :)

[mykeal]

I worry exactly as much about getting launched by a static electrically ignited explosion when I'm loading b.p. as I do when I'm gassing the pickup. Not a lot. I would imagine if anyone at all was getting accidental b.p. explosions, the hue and cry raised by our anti-gun, anti-hunting, hysterically P.C. media would be loud, long and pretty much unmissable. The reloader would be portrayed as a right wing bomb maker at worst and as a stupid red neck cretin at best. The powder manufacturers have explosions from time to time but I've never heard of one at Joe six-pack's place.

Well, that makes perfectly good sense. If there ever was a reason to ignore a caution statement that would be it.:barf:

[Steve499]

It's not like I'm tossing matches around the loading bench, Mykeal, and my measure had no caution statement with it for me to ignore. I have seen the experiments where they tried to ignite b.p, with static electricity and weren't able to do so. There's a link to it on an old thread either here or on TFL somewhere.

I'd be interested in reading about any static electrically b.p. explosions at a handloader's home. Anyone know of any?

[chipperi]

Reloading .45s with black powder is perfectly safe with some simple precautions like using a brass funnel and measure ONLY! modern reloading measures and funnels are or have plastic components which cause static. Blackpowder is susceptible to going boom with static.

Find a local GOEX (http://www.goexpowder.com/) dealer near you. Black Powder isn't that hard to get. I used to do war of 1812 reenactments and we would order several hundred pounds of FFFF, FFF, FF, F, and C for a weekends events.

It is only referd to as .45 or .45 colt. The LC or Long Colt designation someone made up to differentiate the .45 from the .45acp (Automatic Colt Pistol)

[mykeal]

It's not like I'm tossing matches around the loading bench, Mykeal, and my measure had no caution statement with it for me to ignore. I have seen the experiments where they tried to ignite b.p, with static electricity and weren't able to do so. There's a link to it on an old thread either here or on TFL somewhere.

I'd be interested in reading about any static electrically b.p. explosions at a handloader's home. Anyone know of any?

The reference to the static electricity experiment has been posted twice in this thread, and I have posted two responses. It is a failed experiment, incomplete in it's execution and results. It demonstrates a lack of ignition under very specific circumstances and proves nothing at all.

I am not personally acquainted with anyone who has experienced an ignition due to static electricity. I am aware of two explosiions at places where black powder was being manufactured; no cause or speculation about a cause was ever made known to me in respect of those two incidents. So no, I cannot provide you with any anecdotal experiences where static electricity ignited loose black powder.

I am aware that at least one manufacturer is marketing a black powder rifle that uses an electronically generated spark to ignite the black powder. Clearly it's not the same as loose powder in a pile on a bench, and the environment is signiicantly more controlled than in a powder measure. It is simple, effective proof that, given the right conditions, ignition due to spark generation can occur.

Lack of experience does not constitute conclusive evidence either way. Common knowledge of basic physics and an engineering background in the design and manufacture of ordnance safe and arm devices leads me to my conclusion: it's possible and caution is advisable. If you wish to ignore that based on a lack of experience, be my guest. I won't. We'll just have to disagree on that. I sincerely hope for everyone's sake that you are right and I am being too cautious.

[Steve499]

If you wish to ignore that based on a lack of experience, be my guest.

You've got that right, I have zero experience being blown up!:eek: I bubbled a thumbnail one time about 1962 or so lighting a pile of black powder with a paper match. I decided right then it was some powerful stuff and I have a lot of respect for what it can do ever since. I didn't mean to imply I don't exercise due care with black powder because that's definitely not the case. I just don't think having black powder in a powder measure is flirting with disaster. If plastic and B.P. are dangerous together, I would think the Swiss B.P. folks wouldn't sell their powder in a plastic bottle.

The one thing that static electricity experiment showed pretty clearly was that a static spark in the presence of black powder doesn't necessarily cause ignition. Even so, it's tough for me to think that a spark around B.P. is no big deal! if I was sparking and cracking when I touched metal around my reloading bench, I'd find small comfort in that experiment and changes would be made because I don't want to try it at my place. The thing is, in over 40 years of loading B.P., I've never generated any static electricity in any of my powder measures. That's why I don't worry much about it. If it was happening, I'd worry!

[mykeal]

The one thing that static electricity experiment showed pretty clearly was that a static spark in the presence of black powder doesn't necessarily cause ignition. Even so, it's tough for me to think that a spark around B.P. is no big deal! if I was sparking and cracking when I touched metal around my reloading bench, I'd find small comfort in that experiment and changes would be made because I don't want to try it at my place. The thing is, in over 40 years of loading B.P., I've never generated any static electricity in any of my powder measures. That's why I don't worry much about it. If it was happening, I'd worry!

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

I had understood you to be saying that static electricity cannot ignite black powder. I believe I misunderstood or misread what you were saying, and I apologize. I think we agree that static electricity can ignite black powder.

As to whether a powder measure can be source of a sufficient static electricity spark, well, I have to defer to you on that; it's not something I've looked at. For want of better information I'd very likely follow the manufacturer's directions on that.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding. I appreciate your clearing that up.

[sundance44s]

I read a post a few months back a fellow posted that a friend of a friend had a can of Goex explode on him while he was screwing the top back on ..............do I beleive it ..not hardly , as many times in the past 35 years I`ve screwed the tops back on Goex cans .
If the truth be known on alot of these so called static spark explosions , there might have been another cause ....A few of my friends have had Goex cans explode on them eaither on their loading bench or work tables ..all admit to a spark comming from something dumb they were doing to cause it, one was grinding the other smokeing ....I load smokeless powder and black powder in a small room with the door closed ,, and no interuptions ,, I think twice and load once ...sure this hobby is a dangerous one , but so is driveing and flying and we all do that .....My old pappy always told me believe nothing ya read and about half of what ya see .

[DixieTexian]

I would imagine that if a can of Goex exploded from someone screwing the lid on, then they would probably have a nice little lawsuit and a new lid shortly.

[sundance44s]

My thoughts exactly ...If its true , we`ll be seeing a warning on the Goex cans with words of caution on how to screw and unscrew...or maybe we need to wear rubber suits and rubber gloves ....who knows ...but I won`t loose any sleep waiting .

[Misfire99]

I have a hard time excepting the premise that static electricity will set off black powder. There are no fumes to ignite and to get the BP to explode you need heat. This is exactly what the linked article pointed out. There is no way for static electricity to generate enough heat to set off BP. If you want to believe other wise that is up to you but it's just a belief on your part that is not backed up by fact. If you are able to produce any facts that show that static will set off BP I would like to see them.

[mykeal]

I have a hard time excepting the premise that static electricity will set off black powder. There are no fumes to ignite and to get the BP to explode you need heat. This is exactly what the linked article pointed out. There is no way for static electricity to generate enough heat to set off BP. If you want to believe other wise that is up to you but it's just a belief on your part that is not backed up by fact. If you are able to produce any facts that show that static will set off BP I would like to see them.

Is CVA's Electra enough proof for you?

[sundance44s]

I would bet the CVA Electra`s fireing tip gets very hot very quick .. I`ve had a new fangle cig. lighter that did this .

[Misfire99]

Is CVA's Electra enough proof for you?

No it's not!! I find this answer to be less then fruitful. There is nothing about the CVA that say it uses a static park. It only used electricity to heat a glowplug, or something similar, to fire the BP. I think your attempt to use this example is indicative that you have no fact to back up your claim. And Like I said you are welcome to your opinion but it is only that. There is no fact or even an example of anybody ever having BP explode from static. And the site I first showed is not the only one on the net that has attempted to use electricity to ignite black powder. None of the attempts to do so have been successful.

A static spark will ignite gasoline and other liquid fuels but that is because they have fumes that ignite. There are no fumes with BP. You have to get it hot to get it to explode. And after having to switch to a musket cap from a #11 to get reliable ignition of my CVA I suspect it takes more then just a little bit of heat. I found one site that says you need 400c to get it to ignite.

If you want to use the wheel lock or flint lock as an example the sparks from it are particles of burning material, usually flint, that ignite the BP. These sparks have enough heat in them to cause an ignition. Static doesn't have enough heat, in itself, to do this.

I did find something in my research that has some merit. Modern BP has a graphite coating. This could cause the electricity to go around the BP and not through it. I think the only way to find out if BP without graphite will explode from static is to make some and test it. Maybe I will try this and see.

[AntiqueCollector]

Fine particles/dust in blackpowder can ignite very easily. I suspect high amounts of it can lead to danger.

[mykeal]

Missfire99 -

Ok, you win. It's impossible to ignite black powder with a static electricity spark.

I'm done with this thread.

[Misfire99]

Fine particles/dust in blackpowder can ignite very easily. I suspect high amounts of it can lead to danger.

Yea this is true but it's not just BP. Flour can explode when it is in fine powder and suspended in the air. Many silos have been blow up by dust. When I was much younger I made a small bomb using flour and a small candle. I dried the flour in an oven so it would combust better. Then I had a tube that had a little bit of this flour inside a box. I would blow into the tube, not to hard but enough to get the flour into the air, and it would explode. It didn't happen every time. Actually not even most of the time but I did get it to go off. It's called a dust explosion.

[Misfire99]

Ok, you win.

Gee I didn't know it was a contest or I would have tried harder. Sorry if it upset you.

[Ed Gallop]

I used the full cartridge of black powder and it is quite a load in the 45 Colt. That is what I use in my Walker and I'm not comfortable with it in my six shooter. So I reduced to 25gr and it is a nice loud well smoked load. I use a vegetable wad and grits to take up the space with a firm pack.

They say not to use fffg Triple 7 in cartridges. They also say if using ffg Triple 7 do not use more than a .030 wad... absolutely no filler. A cartridge full of ffg Triple 7 is a very heavy load and I suspect fffg is over the limit. I have used a wad and filler with ffg Triple 7 without a problem but I packed tighter than they suggest and it was about a 1/3rd reduction. Triple 7 supposed to perform best when the bullet packs "just touching" the powder, not compressed as is with black powder.

[DixieTexian]

I don't know if black powder can be ignited by static electricity or not. Right now, I'm kinda leaning toward the it can't crowd. But, until we have scientific proof that it can't, it isn't a bad idea to treat it like it can. Especially if you are new to working with it.

[oneshooter]

A load of 38gr Goex 4fg, cast 250gr semi-wadcutter w/50-50 beeswax and Bore Butter. From a 7 1/2"bbl, will produce 1100fps. Enough to kill Hill Country white tail deer at 40yds.:D

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[JCT]

Another old thread...But I just came across it. From what I've seen, BP isn't notably static sensitive. Theoretically, small particles of it, with enough of a good static spark, can ignite. Sporting powders have a graphite glaze, which probably eliminates 99.9% of static risk.
In pyrotechnics, BP and other fuel/oxidizer mixes are handled with static safety in mind. Pyros will use anti static spray, won't use plastic and use grounded table to do work with flash powder or BP.