Why does Ruger not go ahead and make a M-14


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yesit'sloaded
September 19, 2007, 01:39 AM
They already make the mini 14 which is a smaller version in .223 and 7.62x39. Why don't they just start making M14s. Or would that be an M1a1. Why not? I know there is a market for them.

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skinewmexico
September 19, 2007, 01:44 AM
Because they're afraid of what people might think if they started making an assault rifle. Bill Ruger supported the last AWB.

yesit'sloaded
September 19, 2007, 01:51 AM
WTH? The mini-14 is the same gun just not in .308. It even comes in the evil caliber 7.62x39. Thats a sick joke of a thing if a company that makes a semi auto rifle in .223 and 7.62x39 is against "assault weapons".

mp510
September 19, 2007, 02:04 AM
They were going to-> the Ruger X-GI.
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=38911

Samuraigg
September 19, 2007, 02:19 AM
Bill Ruger supported the last AWB.

I find this awesome, considering most new potential AWBs include the Mini 14 on the list of banned weapons.

lencac
September 19, 2007, 02:52 AM
Probably cause Ruger knows that any M1A would be inferior to the SA M1A ...... smart folks there at Ruger

MisterPX
September 19, 2007, 02:58 AM
Would they be able to recoup tooling costs on production?
Not too likely right now, lack of 308, SA marketing, etc.

As far as Bill and the AWB, all I recall is that he was good to go on teh 10 round mag part.

General Geoff
September 19, 2007, 03:29 AM
The M14 market is pretty well covered. The market's not nearly as large as the AR-15 sect, and I can think of three manufacturers who are currently making rifles (Springfield Armory being my guess for largest in volume, by a long shot, and Fulton Armory and LRB Arms following). Costs to ramp up for production would probably take well over a decade to pay off, assuming they made a weapon of comparable quality to existing M14 clones and offered it at a reasonable price.

yongxingfreesty
September 19, 2007, 03:30 AM
Bill Ruger, same guy that said all you need is 10 rounds.

Spiggy
September 19, 2007, 03:47 AM
coincidentally, SB1022 comes to mind...

Detritus
September 19, 2007, 03:52 AM
As far as Bill and the AWB, all I recall is that he was good to go on teh 10 round mag part.

Bill Ruger was a great gun designer, and he knew how to deflect scurity and criticism from his product with a well timed BS political statement /business descision. his statements about 10rd mags and the famous "no man needs a pistol smaller than a canned ham" comment fall into this category.

Ruger didn't really "support the AWB" but he could read the 10 foot high writing on the wall and knew dang well one was coming. so he got out ahead of the thing and made statements to make it seem to the politicians that he was 'not as unreasonable about things as his competitors"

he knew realisticly that with a very little bit of forethought and planning production wise that the Mini-14/30 could transition into and survive during an AWB, with little to no interuption or loss of profit.
So why SHOULDN'T he milk that fact for all it's worth.

in other words Bill Ruger was a businessman, not a politican or lobbyist. and made the aforementioned statements b/c they made good buisness sense.
Welcome to capitalism.

Now as to the OP
As MP510 noted Ruger DID make a .308 sized version of the Mini-14 the X-GI, it never went into production b/c it was even MORE inaccurate than the Mini (forget "minute of pieplate" think "minute of barn door"). And since after a considerable amount of testing, the R&D Dept couldn't solve the accuracy problems in a satisfactory manner, a decision was made to not sell a model with a known and possibly unsolvable problem.

wideym
September 19, 2007, 05:20 AM
Bill Ruger may have been a buisnessman, but to stab everyone with a vested interest in firearms and the CONSTITUTION in the back for money was inexcuseable. If the internet was as commonplace then as it is today Ruger would be out of buisness as surely as Zumbo. Now about Ruger M-14s, M14/M1A are usually more expensive than any off the rack firearm. People expect Springfield quality accuracy or better from M14/M1As. Ruger just can not meet those expectations and won't try. They stick with a known seller.

Number 6
September 19, 2007, 05:39 AM
From my understanding the Mini-14 is not a direct descendant of the M14, but instead a mixture of the M14 and the M1 Carbine. The XG1 was developed but never entered into production. A lot of reasons for this have been postulated, but as others have said the market for M14 clones is already covered. For Ruger to produce a cheap clone of the M14 would most likely not do well since it would not live up to anyone's expectations. To do a M14 clone well is not something that can be done cheaply.

As to the image that producing an M14 clone would entail. Ruger has shied away from making guns that have the appearance of being military in nature. The Mini-14 and Mini-30 have been marketed to the civilian market as ranch rifles. Making a full-fledged clone of the M14 would not fit in with the corporate image that Ruger is trying to create for itself. Before people are too hard on Ruger, remember that one of the reasons that Marlin dropped the Camp Carbine series was that it did not fit in with the image that Marlin was trying convey. Could Ruger change their image and might they be in the process of doing so? I certainly hope so, I think they could do well to make more "militarized" rifles, and make a good bit of money. I am not sure if an M14 clone would be possible however, given the above reasons.

cbsbyte
September 19, 2007, 08:05 AM
People consider Bill Ruger a great gun designer? Every gun he designed was just a copy of another firearm and poor one at that. Mini-14 is cross between the Grand and M14 action. Mark 1 pistol is an almost direct copy of a Japanese Nambu pistol. This guy really did not come up with many great designs. He is no John Browning.

Baron357
September 19, 2007, 10:09 AM
Ruger may have been a good Businessman but he sold out every gun owner in this country. Go and buy a new mini-14 of 30 and what does it come with...a 5 round mag. That is all Ruger thinks us peons should get.

As for the OP, Ruger could not make a quality M14/M1A for any less then SA so there is no reason. Plus Ruger would probably make the mags proprietary and only 5 rounds unless you were LEO. NOBODY in their right mind would choose that over a nice Springfield.

Rexster
September 19, 2007, 10:20 AM
I seem to remember the XGI used M-14 mags.

trbon8r
September 19, 2007, 10:21 AM
You have to remember that back in the day the Springfield M1A was a considerably cheaper weapon than it is now. I bought my first one back in the late 1980s on sale for the princely sum of $499.

Keep in mind that M14 surplus parts were plentiful and dirt cheap back then. Springfield could assemble guns using quality GI parts that the gubment was practically giving away. Ruger would have to compete with the M1A with added burden burden and expense of making all new parts. Someone would have to be on crack to buy the Ruger over the M1A, and Ruger likely figured that out.

yesit'sloaded
September 19, 2007, 10:47 AM
I want my red label m14.

Jim Watson
September 19, 2007, 11:45 AM
Jan Stevenson, then editing The Handgunner, Ltd. in England, said he got two separate letters from Ruger about their discontinuing the XGI project. One said that they had the action working but could not get acceptable accuracy; the other said that it was an accurate rifle but they could not get reliable function with the wide range of ammunition available.
He concluded that it was neither reliable or accurate and they gave up on it.

armoredman
September 19, 2007, 12:03 PM
Hmmm, all that new tooling they just did for the Mini-14, wonder if there is any interest in a new set for an XGI. Do remember, they guy who sold us out IS DEAD. Maybe his hiers would be more, "receptive", shall we say, to reviving this dream, and making it workable?

Baron357
September 19, 2007, 12:07 PM
Maybe his hiers would be more, "receptive", shall we say, to reviving this dream, and making it workable?

I suspect if that were true new Minis would have at least a 10 rd. mag. to go along with the 5 rounder and high cap mags would have been released to the public already. Maybe things will change...

Vitamin G
September 19, 2007, 01:40 PM
Ruger will not, CAN NOT, make an M14/M1a platform. The gun simply does not have enough surface area for the warning labels that Ruger would want to put on such a fine weapon.

CajunBass
September 19, 2007, 02:15 PM
Well the last time the Ruger board of directors called me and asked for my advice I told them................

Werewolf
September 19, 2007, 04:04 PM
Based on my personal experience with 3 Ruger products there's no way I'd ever purchase an M-14 made by them and that's before taking into consideration ole Bill's sell out of the people that buttered his bread.

Ruger could drop off the face of the planet this very second and I wouldn't shed a single tear over it. In fact it would probably generate a smile or two and might even make my day.

JoshM
September 19, 2007, 05:40 PM
Ruger's success has evolved by noting gaps in the market and then filling the gaps with useful/reasonably priced products. So, between the Springfield Armory and NORINCO products - on a worldwide scale - the market is already well catered for.

Example - At the entry level a new NORINCO M305 (M14 clone/knockoff) can be purchased for approxmiately $450 US, with the Springfields dominating the high end of the market.

I expect that a revived XGI would likely run into the same problems of a crowded marketplace - Saiga, Remington, Browning, HK, and even Benelli have centerfire semi automatics available.

Buzztail
September 19, 2007, 06:36 PM
Ruger will not, CAN NOT, make an M14/M1a platform. The gun simply does not have enough surface area for the warning labels that Ruger would want to put on such a fine weapon.


:D:D:D

Navy joe
September 19, 2007, 07:23 PM
Ruger won't make an M-14 because people that buy one expect to buy an accurate rifle, not a mini-14. :D

Ruger will not, CAN NOT, make an M14/M1a platform. The gun simply does not have enough surface area for the warning labels that Ruger would want to put on such a fine weapon.


Very funny, very true. I was looking at a pretty S&W 1911 the other day, right up to the part where the dustcover said "WARNING Capable of firing with magazine removed" Hmmm, all these years I considered it a feature not a hazard. Are there really that many cops used to playing with their mag disconnect guns that shoot themselves with 1911's then say "It just went off?"

colt.45
September 19, 2007, 10:17 PM
why dont they make an m-1a? ... because it would suck, it would have a skiny litle straw of a barrel that would heat up and shoot all over the place after 5 rounds. because it would only take 5 round magazines, because they look down at people that want to protect themselves.

swingset
September 20, 2007, 06:40 AM
Gosh, feel the Ruger love.

:rolleyes:

RevolvingCylinder
September 20, 2007, 07:07 AM
If Ruger made an M-14, I'd probably buy it.

Baron357
September 20, 2007, 08:39 AM
Very funny, very true. I was looking at a pretty S&W 1911 the other day, right up to the part where the dustcover said "WARNING Capable of firing with magazine removed" Hmmm, all these years I considered it a feature not a hazard. Are there really that many cops used to playing with their mag disconnect guns that shoot themselves with 1911's then say "It just went off?"

Navy joe, Being from Assachusetts I can tell you that MA politics is why that is on the gun. The Liberals think we can't handle ourselves.:rolleyes:

Gator
September 20, 2007, 08:41 AM
They already make the mini 14 which is a smaller version....

The Mini-14 is NOT a "smaller version" of the M-14. They both have rotating bolts, but otherwise are completely different rifles. The Mini is styled after the M-14, but the similarities are only cosmetic.

Ruger tried to up-size the Mini to .308, but the Mini's shortcomings were magnified along with the size. The XGI was horribly inaccurate.

jpwilly
September 20, 2007, 06:30 PM
Ruger should smarten up and build one! The SA is $1400+ I'd by a Ruger M14 for $600-$700 in 308 as long as the magority of the rifle was a faithful reproduction kinda like the Norinco! I don't care about the politics...bring on the rifles and pass the ammo please! By the way Taurus entered the 1911 market that was already flooded with Colt, SA, Kimber, Para, Rock Island etc and has done very well!

Detritus
September 20, 2007, 06:56 PM
I'd by a Ruger M14 for $600-$700 in 308 as long as the magority of the rifle was a faithful reproduction kinda like the Norinco

Never happen... the costs involved in making a "faithful repro" of the M-14 make sure that we'll never see an american made one for less than what the SA M1A is going for.

Keep in mind that a major part of why Polytech and Norinco clones were as cheap as they were was b/c they were/are being produced by VERY cheap labor. not possible in the states.

Any company attempting to enter the M14/M1A market would have to set up an entirely new production line for such a product. and we the consumers would have to eat the additional costs involved in that.

For these reasons we'll never see a NIB american made M-14 clone for under $1K again.

jpwilly
September 20, 2007, 07:06 PM
Okay! Forget Ruger then - let's beg Taurus to build them in Brazil with Forged and MIM parts like their 1911! Should be able to do since SA is also in Brazil.

cracked butt
September 20, 2007, 07:28 PM
If Ruger made one for cheaper than SA, I still wouldn't buy one unless they made one that would take standard-cap GI mags which you could bet is something Ruger would never allow for.

Mannlicher
September 20, 2007, 07:52 PM
biggest problem now with M1A ownership (or any rifle that uses the same cartridge) is the lack of 7.62 NATO milsurp ammo at a price that anyone can afford.

novaDAK
September 20, 2007, 07:53 PM
People consider Bill Ruger a great gun designer? Every gun he designed was just a copy of another firearm and poor one at that. Mini-14 is cross between the Grand and M14 action. Mark 1 pistol is an almost direct copy of a Japanese Nambu pistol. This guy really did not come up with many great designs. He is no John Browning.

cbsbyte, ****EDITED**** (I respectfully disagree with your opinion :) )

He has come up with several GREAT designs. Such as the red label shotguns, super blackhawk (what other revolver at the time could you shoot nuclear reloads through and not have steel and fire in your face?)
And the Mark I .22 is not a Nambu. That's like saying that a TT-33 is a copy of a 1911, which it is NOT. And the mini-14's similarity with the m14 ends with the way it looks. Just like a hi-power looks 'similar' to a 1911 yet are completely different.

and before you go saying Ruger is crap, last I heard, Ruger also makes the castings for Caspian 1911s ;)

No, he's no John Browning, but he did make AFFORDABLE firearms that "ordinary citizens' could buy. Back in the day you just try to buy a 1911 or hi-power from Colt with some extra cash back then ;) They wern't exactly 'affordable'

Gator
September 20, 2007, 09:26 PM
Mark 1 pistol is an almost direct copy of a Japanese Nambu pistol.

Ooh, I missed that the first time around. Other than they both have a rear cocking piece, they have nothing in common mechanically.

Glockfan.45
September 20, 2007, 10:03 PM
The reason nobody is building new M14 clones is simple. One only needs to buy a box of .308 to learn the answer. I cannot and nor can most people afford to plink with .308 nowdays. Hell I bought a 9mm upper just so I could afford to shoot my ARs more than once a month.

Gosh, feel the Ruger love

I share the sentiment of other posters here who proclaim that Ruger can rot in Hell for all I care (so can Smith & Wesson while were at it). Bill Ruger sold us out plain and simple. And to those of you who say "but they just did what they had to to survive" I have a bridge to sell you. If Ruger just did what they had to to survive the last AWB then why does a 20rnd mini14 mag still cost $40 or more today........nearly 4 years after the sunset? Ruger hates you just as much as Hk. Maybe they could get Jim Zumbo to be their new spokesman.

Grunt
September 20, 2007, 10:14 PM
Bill Ruger was a great gun designer, and he knew how to deflect scurity and criticism from his product with a well timed BS political statement /business descision. his statements about 10rd mags and the famous "no man needs a pistol smaller than a canned ham" comment fall into this category.

Ruger didn't really "support the AWB" but he could read the 10 foot high writing on the wall and knew dang well one was coming. so he got out ahead of the thing and made statements to make it seem to the politicians that he was 'not as unreasonable about things as his competitors"

he knew realisticly that with a very little bit of forethought and planning production wise that the Mini-14/30 could transition into and survive during an AWB, with little to no interuption or loss of profit.
So why SHOULDN'T he milk that fact for all it's worth.

in other words Bill Ruger was a businessman, not a politican or lobbyist. and made the aforementioned statements b/c they made good buisness sense.
Welcome to capitalism.


During the 1930s and 40's, some Jews worked WITH the Nazis and their "final solution" by turning in other Jews and helping with assigning their own people to face extermination in the death camps. Their defense was that they were doing this in order to stay alive in Nazi Germany but does that really excuse their crimes either?
We are willing to criticize companies that prohibit firearms on company property, Wal-Mart for importing Chinese goods, K-Mart for hiring Rosie O'Donnel, Rosie O'Donnel for her views on gun control and so on and so forth especially when folks like these somehow threaten our rights but when it comes to what we like, and some folks like Rugers, we are willing to give them a pass on their actions. We make all kinds of excuses, "it was not meant seriously", "it was a wise business decision", "it was to ensure his company's survival", "Bill Ruger Sr. is dead now" (although I still don't see Ruger firearms selling high capacity magazines directly to the public) and so on and so forth. Excuses...:scrutiny:

Neo-Luddite
September 20, 2007, 10:15 PM
Investment cast .308---I'll pass.

They finally seem to have un-&^%$ed the mini-14 after 35 years of production.

Maybe if they got off their high horse and sold a 'fixed' k-mini w/ a factory folder to us poor plebians they would have innovated enough for this decade.

Warning: This Post is spiteful and snarky--but Sturm, Ruger started it.

Car Knocker
September 20, 2007, 10:15 PM
Back in the day you just try to buy a 1911 or hi-power from Colt with some extra cash back then They wern't exactly 'affordable'
Yeah, those "Colt" High Powers were really, really expensive, and are really, really rare today!

blackhawk2000
September 20, 2007, 10:20 PM
If Bill Ruger is such a great designer, then why couldn't he make the M14 clone work? All the design work was already done for him. Doesn't sound so great to me.

Bill can rot in hell. Business decision or not. You don't sleep with the devil today, and not expect to get burned tomorrow.

Gator
September 20, 2007, 11:09 PM
If Bill Ruger is such a great designer, then why couldn't he make the M14 clone work? All the design work was already done for him.

Simple. Ruger never designed, or built, an M-14 clone, never. If you are referring to the XGI, that was an upsized Mini-14, and not an M-14, they are two completely different rifles.

MechAg94
September 20, 2007, 11:49 PM
During the 1930s and 40's, some Jews worked WITH the Nazis and their "final solution" by turning in other Jews and helping with assigning their own people to face extermination in the death camps. Their defense was that they were doing this in order to stay alive in Nazi Germany but does that really excuse their crimes either?
We are willing to criticize companies that prohibit firearms on company property, Wal-Mart for importing Chinese goods, K-Mart for hiring Rosie O'Donnel, Rosie O'Donnel for her views on gun control and so on and so forth especially when folks like these somehow threaten our rights but when it comes to what we like, and some folks like Rugers, we are willing to give them a pass on their actions. We make all kinds of excuses, "it was not meant seriously", "it was a wise business decision", "it was to ensure his company's survival", "Bill Ruger Sr. is dead now" (although I still don't see Ruger firearms selling high capacity magazines directly to the public) and so on and so forth. Excuses...
Okay, all you anti-Ruger guys can go suck eggs. You lost the argument. Someone pulled out the freaking Nazi comparison. Since I don't actually see Hitler's name mentioned, you can still argue on another thread. :D

rhubarb
September 20, 2007, 11:56 PM
Yeah, Bill Ruger was motivated by his business savvy. That's why Ruger's in on the AR-15 market, which wildly outsells the Mini 14. He might have pulled his little "10 round" stunt to give the inferior Mini 14 a chance against a superior platform. I for one wouldn't say that encouraging the government to regulate your competition is good business.

I have two pre-ban factory Ruger 15 round magazines for my Ruger P95.

I would like to see more affordable modular semi-auto rifles in .308. Hmm, like AR-15s. I'm not so enamored of the M14. Maybe in all their business wisdom, Ruger understands that.

Hunter0924
September 21, 2007, 01:02 AM
Well I can see yall really dislike Ruger but there is no arguing Ruger makes fine firearms. Redhawk, Blackhawk, GP 100, SP 101, Vaquero, 10/22 and the Mini 14. All quality firearms as well as others. The Mini 14 is a great rifle for what is was designed for. Is it a Colt HBar? No but it also is much less expensive. I have had some nice groups at 100 yards using Hornady 55gr FMJ loaded with IMR 4895. I have several shooting buddys with the Ruger Semi auto pistols and though they do not have the romance of a Government Model they do work.
I am a Ruger fan.

rosco22
September 21, 2007, 01:11 AM
Ruger didn't really "support the AWB" but he could read the 10 foot high writing on the wall and knew dang well one was coming. so he got out ahead of the thing and made statements to make it seem to the politicians that he was 'not as unreasonable about things as his competitors"


SSSOOOOOOO , in all his wisdom he sold the Law Abiding gun owning public down the river . Shows he had no back bone to stand and fight . A voice as loud as his MIGHT have helped rather than hurt .

If I did not like the 10/22 so much I would dump it for a TC ............

Detritus
September 21, 2007, 02:59 AM
SSSOOOOOOO , in all his wisdom he sold the Law Abiding gun owning public down the river . Shows he had no back bone to stand and fight . A voice as loud as his MIGHT have helped rather than hurt .

If I did not like the 10/22 so much I would dump it for a TC

Never said i LIKED or in anyway agreed with his actions/decisions.

I grew up on Ruger products, and wind up hard pressed at times to see the point of paying 2x as much for the same amount of gun over the issues raised here. That said the only ruger i'm likely to ever buy new (as opposed to inheriting) would be if i decide to get another O/U shotgun i'll get a red label.

Oh and of the rest of the Ruger guns that i stand to inherit, only three were made after 1976.

gezzer
September 22, 2007, 01:46 AM
Probably cause Ruger knows that any M1A would be inferior to the SA M1A ...... smart folks there at Ruger

Yes sure there, with 2-3 trips back to SA for correction to make them work, my shop will not stock the because of the quality control from SA.

Ruger beats them on any repair issue.

Grunt
September 22, 2007, 08:02 AM
Okay, all you anti-Ruger guys can go suck eggs. You lost the argument. Someone pulled out the freaking Nazi comparison. Since I don't actually see Hitler's name mentioned, you can still argue on another thread.

Actually I didn't compare Ruger to the Nazis but to the Judenrats that collaborated with them. Some folks like Rosie O'Donnel, Sarah Brady, etc. could be compared to Hitler (Rosie herself admitted she would like to see all gun owners imprisoned for their beliefs) but when it comes to one of your own, quizlings like Bill Ruger Sr. can accurately be compared to Judenrates, Benidict Arnold, Judas, and John Walker Lindh.

45ACPUSER
September 22, 2007, 12:13 PM
There was literature out, patches out fo the XGI, but there was no guns as posted they could not get reasonable accuracy......Hell, I have owned 4 mini's over the the years and well they were Bill Ruger's most expensive plinker......

cracked butt
September 22, 2007, 01:24 PM
Ruger didn't really "support the AWB" but he could read the 10 foot high writing on the wall and knew dang well one was coming. so he got out ahead of the thing and made statements to make it seem to the politicians that he was 'not as unreasonable about things as his competitors"

he knew realisticly that with a very little bit of forethought and planning production wise that the Mini-14/30 could transition into and survive during an AWB, with little to no interuption or loss of profit.
So why SHOULDN'T he milk that fact for all it's worth.

in other words Bill Ruger was a businessman, not a politican or lobbyist. and made the aforementioned statements b/c they made good buisness sense.

Business from me the company is not going to get.
I'll save my money for companies like Bushmaster, Rockriver, DPMS, et al who unabashedly make EBRs for the masses. I'll give my business to Armalite who offered free 'evil' upgrades to customers at the expiration of the AWB. I'll stand behind Barrett who refuses to make sales or to service rifles to law enforcement/government in states where his rifles are banned to the citizens.

That's capitalism for ya.

Grunt
September 22, 2007, 08:22 PM
No, that's standing up for your beliefs!:cool:

Glockfan.45
September 22, 2007, 10:52 PM
Business from me the company is not going to get.
I'll save my money for companies like Bushmaster, Rockriver, DPMS, et al who unabashedly make EBRs for the masses. I'll give my business to Armalite who offered free 'evil' upgrades to customers at the expiration of the AWB. I'll stand behind Barrett who refuses to make sales or to service rifles to law enforcement/government in states where his rifles are banned to the citizens.

That's capitalism for ya.

I had no idea Armalite did that :cool: . Now theres a company I would glady do businees with. I hope they follow Barretts example and stop selling/servicing their rifles for gorvernment types in Illinois if an Illinois AWB passes. The ISP currently issue Armalites.

Rexster
September 22, 2007, 11:59 PM
There are dealers who are quietly selling Ruger Mini-14 factory 20-round mags to the public. I do not know if this meets with the company's approval or not, so I won't name names, and the mags are not inexpensive, of course, but they are available.

GunTech
September 23, 2007, 12:23 AM
Bill Ruger, love him or hate him, had a genius for producing good guns at a reasonable cost. Go out and price most Ruger Guns compared to their competition. Not everyone can afford 'the best', and there is a huge and ready market for the 'good enough'. Ruger is one of the largest gun makers, there's no denying, so they must be doing something right.

As for his politics, I don't care for them. But if you you do some checking, you'll find many gun companies have 'made a deal with the devil'. Remember Smith and Wesson? Colt stopped making the Mustang and other pocket pistols as a SOP to Connecticut (no more Saturday Night Specials). HK stopped selling 'assasult rifles' in the US.

Ruger didn't make the XGI because they couldn't do it with the performance they wanted at the price point they wanted. It happens at companies all the time.

kds99
September 23, 2007, 01:00 AM
you guys do realize that the ruger family sold 95% if the holdings in the company last year

yesit'sloaded
September 23, 2007, 01:31 AM
I was thinking along the lines of an M14/mini 14 type red label semi in .30-06 or .308 to compete with something like Brownings BAR. I understand it would not be cheap, but there are some of us that understand that a nice looking and performing gun is worth the money. I love the feel of a Ruger #1 but I'm not a fan of the single shot, it just doesn't have much SHTF capability like most hunting rifles do.

Leif Runenritzer
September 23, 2007, 01:37 AM
you'll find many gun companies have 'made a deal with the devil'. Remember Smith and Wesson?
But it's more than that. S&W has since changed owners and does not make judgments on what individuals should own, AFAIK. Ruger has only changed owners.

Ohio Rifleman
September 23, 2007, 03:28 AM
I hereby invoke Godwin's Law on post #41.

And Bill Ruger is DEAD. Get over it.

Limeyfellow
September 23, 2007, 01:04 PM
Never happen... the costs involved in making a "faithful repro" of the M-14 make sure that we'll never see an american made one for less than what the SA M1A is going for.

+1 There is simply just not enough of a market to afford mass production on such a level that the price comes down that significantly. Despite the views on some forums the M14 clones are hardly the biggest sellers in the world.

kBob
September 25, 2007, 01:24 PM
During the early 80's there was a SHot SHow in Atlanta GA. There Ruger displayed the XGI. I handled both guns that were on display. THey had a magazine that looked amazing like a truncated M-14 magazine that IIRC held only five rounds. I got to remove the magazine and work the action and dry fire one of the rifles. and they pulled one apart for me into major groups. It was an over sized Mini-14. The trigger group looked AMAZINGLY like that of an M-14.

When I asked about high capacity magazines I got frowns and was told the XGI was a sporting rifle.

SO I strolled down to the SA booth and spoke to them about my failed attempt to purchase an M-1A in 1975. I was in the US Army in Europe and I had my local US ROd and Gun CLub order me one with the full price on deposite....$329 and change was pretty much a Speedy Four's monthly pay at the time. German customs seized the rifle as a weapon of war and neglected to inform either SA or the US ROd and Gun CLub it had been seized . Eventually we found out were it was and it was returned to SA....who found the rifle dinged and rusted from the wonderful care the Grenz Polizi had given it.

Anyway back to the XGI....after getting grins a giggles from SA I told them about the Ruger and my suspisions on the magazine. Naturally this interested them as Ruger might be competition as there was nothing like todays internet to share opinions on and many folks may have bought a Mini-.308 to save a buck or two on an M-1 A expecting like performance.

I talked them into letting me slip an M-14 magazine in my hip pocket and stroll back to the Ruger booth with a couple of SA folks casually walking along behind looking at other exhibits. WHen a different greeter was on the XGIs Iwalked over and asked to see one and while the greeter was talking to someone about another product dropped the XGI mag out and replaced it with the M-14 one and did a function check. It fit and locked the bolt back when the rifle was cycled. I compared the appearence of the feed lips of the magaziens and they apeared exactly alike.

The Springfield folks were delighted as appearently they had bet another member of their group the XGI would use M-14 magazine and he had bet against them.

WHen the NRA convention was in Orlando a few years back I had the chance to talk to a ruger rep again at their exhibit. I asked about the XGI and he allowed as how there were accuracy issues and ammo sensitivity in that the 7.62 x51 and .308 ammo types on the market varied wildy in powder speeds and pressures and that Mini 14 gas system could make the operating rod move a bit faster and more abruptly than it should. That should sound familure to M-1 Grand shooters. He said it just could notbe made to work at a price that could compete with other such rifles. Nice guy and he suggested I send my ancient RST-4 (Mark I was the target model of those not the series name!) in for a rebuild and refinish. I didn't because I love every ding, stain, and scratch on it.

-Bob Hollingworth

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