Too many compacts.


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jestic
September 19, 2007, 04:34 AM
Hello everyone:
Newbie here with some advise needed. I'm looking into getting a compact for the everyday carrying purpose but I read reviews through here ( awsome site ) and I'm getting overwelmed a bit. My budget is about $600 ( more or less ) and I would like to stay with a 40 or a 9. I will be buying two of these so a company with either a lifetime or good service history is a plus. I have a CWP for the state of Florida and I'm fully aware of the laws. I'm a big rifle guy but have nothing to carry personally, neither does my wife. Any help would be great. TIA.

Jestic

ps: Ive shot a colt defender, glock 27, sp armory ultra compact, but i'm open to suggestions.

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MPanova
September 19, 2007, 05:26 AM
Look into the Taurus Millenium Pro line. They have a PT111 = 9mm PT140 = 40s&w and the PT145 = 45acp, I know you said you want 9mm or 40 so disregard the PT145 I guess, They are small light and reliable, Taurus has a lifetime of the firearm warrenty, and they have been aorund for over 60 years, they are one of the most innovative firearms makers in the market today, My wife has a PT111 with over 8000 rounds through it and all have been flawless. I have a PT145 that has been perfect for a little over 800 rounds of various JHP.

The specs on the PT111 are

Mil Pro PT111

Capacity 12+1
Weight: 18.7 oz
Length: 6.125"
Width: 1.125"
Height: 5.125"
Barrel Length: 3.25"
Safety: Firing Pin Block,Manual Safety

compare that to the Glock 26 which you may be familiar with

Glock 26

Capacity: 10 + 1
Weight: 19.75 oz
Length: 6.29"
Width: 1.18"
Height: 4.17"
Barrel Length: 3.46"
Safety: Trigger/Firing Pin


Also the PT series cost less then the Glocks and Like pistols so you will have more left over from your $600 price range for lots of ammo and a good holster ;)

Good luck in your search and please keep us posted on what you finally decide to pick up and a good range report

GlenJ
September 19, 2007, 06:01 AM
GLOCK 19 or 23

eagle45
September 19, 2007, 09:00 AM
I would suggest you check out the Springfield XD Sub Compact, in either 9 or 40. While not quite as easy to conceal as the Taurus models mentioned by MPanova, they are still an option well worth considering, and are not hard to conceal at all with a good holster. I have three of the XD 40s, and carry the sub compact frequently.

armoredman
September 19, 2007, 10:44 AM
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/czbath.jpg

Sorry, couldn't resist.:p

Zen21Tao
September 19, 2007, 11:08 AM
Is that $600 per gun? If so, I would suggest to look into a Kahr or a Para Ordnance LDA. Both make great carry guns. I find the Kahrs to be sleek and very easy to operate (no safeties to have to engage). As for the Para LDA, this just has a very nice trigger system worth checking out.

MechAg94
September 19, 2007, 11:20 AM
I have have a Kahr P9 that is very slim and light.

I was thinking of buying another 9mm auto, but I think I will just end up buying a light weight .38+P revolver.

Vonderek
September 19, 2007, 11:24 AM
+1 on the Kahr. I have an MK9 that fits front pocket or back pocket or IWB very easily and is a daily carry for me. The PM9 is lighter but some have had poor experiences with what I've read on the forums. The mk9 is very accurate and light recoiling even with the +p stuff. The trigger is kind of odd at first but after you get used to it it's very nice.

Clipper
September 19, 2007, 11:26 AM
The Kel-Tec PF-9 is made right there in Florida, has a lifetime warranty, is the lightest, flattest 9mm you can buy, and $600.00 should buy two and leave some ammo money besides. Mine has been dead reliable since day one. It's accurate, and weighs loaded what most lightweight snubbies and compact autos weigh empty. Some think the recoil is a bit sharp, but I don't. However, slipping on a Hogue Handall will fix that.

Phantom Warrior
September 19, 2007, 11:40 AM
I'll give you my recommendation, with two caveats. One, you should buy whatever you are most comfortable with. Anything by Colt, Kimber, Para-Ordnance, Glock, Springfield, S&W, SIG, H&K, CZ, Kahr or any other decent brand will serve you well. And two, you will probably have every brand that I mentioned (and several that I didn't) recommended to you. Which is why it's all the more important for you to pick what suits you best.

That said, in a compact frame I'm very fond of Glock pistols. My first pistol was a Glock 23 (compact .40) and it is still my carry gun and my go-to gun, even though I've purchased several more pistols. Glocks are cheap (esp if you are looking to buy two), simple to operate and maintain, and very easy to find accessories for. If you are new to pistols, I would also recommend going with 9mm (Glock 19). 9mm is significantly cheaper than anything else, to the tune of a couple dollars a box. You will be able to shoot your pistols a lot more for less if you go with 9mm. And using quality hollow points it's every bit as effective as larger calibers.

MCgunner
September 19, 2007, 11:49 AM
With 600 bucks, look at Kahr. I, personally, don't think Kahr is any better than Kel Tec and would save some money, but that's up to you. There are also a LOT of compact revolvers you could look at from Smith, Taurus, and Ruger. For pocket sized firepower, it's hard to beat a Kahr, Taurus Millenium, Kel Tec, or Rohrbaugh (need another 400 for that one) in a pocket. My P11 Kel Tec has 12 round mags available and fits in a pocket at only 14 ounces. Pretty awesome little gun, quite accurate and 100 percent reliable.

PX15
September 19, 2007, 11:55 AM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_6832.jpg

Just another option:

Walther P99c/AS (pictured above the LWS32).

Less than $600, but absolute reliability and awesomely accurate.

Good Hunting!

J.Pomeroy

highfive
September 19, 2007, 12:36 PM
I have a PT-111 and never had any problems with it... like MPanova said with this you can save some money for ammo and a good holster. I like the gun and has been very good...Happy Hunting

10-Ring
September 19, 2007, 12:57 PM
As boring as it may seem, I would go w/ the Glock 19...I've seen them used at a good deal below $600 and the difference can go towards holster, ammo & range time ;)

Autolycus
September 19, 2007, 01:02 PM
I would save up another $150 and get a P2000sk from www.policeguns.com. Get it with the LEM trigger (variant 2) and you will be good to go.

mavracer
September 19, 2007, 01:08 PM
take a look at the police trade in HK p7psp.I've fallen in love .

Glockafella
September 19, 2007, 01:41 PM
Kel Tec PF-9

cheap
fairly accurate
good customer service

CWL
September 19, 2007, 03:30 PM
Get a pair of Glock G19s for yourself and your wife. Simple to operate & maintain, relatively cheap mags & replacement parts, ,great weather resistance to humid FL conditions.

Kahrs in stainless would be my next suggestion.

Stay simple.

redneckrepairs
September 19, 2007, 03:49 PM
I carry a Kahr p9 about every day and have a pm9 also that i use for a bug or a primary when my dress makes the p9 seem a bit problematic . both are reliable and more accurate than i can shoot anymore ( i can still break clay pidgins on the berm at 25 yards tho ) . I also just picked up one of the police trade in HK p7s and really like it other than the weight , and the limited holster selection. I am waiting on a custom holster for it now . It wont replace my kahrs for everyday carry , but will supplement them for " dress up " use , my more or less bbq gun since in my area they are rare as hen's teeth . For the budget you set ( roughly $600) you could well get a p9 , or possibly 2 cw 9s , or one c9 and a bunch of ammo, leather , and extra mags , ect.. IMHO the great caliber debate is so much hot air , once you get to the .38 special/9mm threshold its STILL all about placement to be effective , you will be as well served with a 9mm and quality ammo as you will a 40 or a 45 .

If you can get to a " rental range " try shooting anything in your size limitations , and go from there . For myself i rule out any double stack handgun for ccw due to thickness , it may work for others , but does not for me .

Eyesac
September 19, 2007, 04:13 PM
Big fan of the 27, you said you shot it? Did you like it?

Dr_2_B
September 19, 2007, 06:50 PM
I agree with either of the Glocks, but the 27 is noticeably smaller and it's a gem.

greenparrot
September 19, 2007, 07:36 PM
Glock 23 or Glock 27.

jestic
September 19, 2007, 08:27 PM
Thank you all for your great advise. I'm still learning till this day from all different aspects of handguns. I think I should start a poll.

The Lone Haranguer
September 19, 2007, 10:45 PM
Check out the Smith & Wesson M&P compact. :)

Don Lu
September 19, 2007, 10:57 PM
Glock 23 or 19. Really the perfect power/capacity/size package for me !

Zen21Tao
September 20, 2007, 02:08 AM
Thank you all for your great advise. I'm still learning till this day from all different aspects of handguns. I think I should start a poll.

The problem with the poll is that, like Phantom Warrior said, you are going to get every main manufacturer suggested to you based mostly on what each individual likes and/or owns. I also agree with him 100% that you should "pick what suits you best." I would suggest that you make a list of options present to you along with a list of why each is said to be ideal for your purposes. Then visit some gunshops and try out as many as you can find on your list to see which feel best to you, in your hands. Ultimately it is you that is going to have to carry it around all day, practice with it at the range, and trust you life to it.

My suggestions on what to look for are:

Magazine design:

Look at some single stacks and double stacks to see which you prefer. Many, including myself, like single stacks because they find them more comfortable and that they print through clothing less. On the other hand, a double stack allows you more ammo but, you can also always carry a backup mag or two.



Trigger system:

Look at what type of trigger you prefer. A single action trigger is very light and crisp but for safety you have to carry the weapon "cocked and locked" which is just another thing you have to engage when reacting to a situation. A good DA has a long enough trigger pull on the first round that you don't have to worry about external safeties. However, some don't like having their long first trigget pull different than the follow-up trigger pulls once the weapon is cocked. If you fall in this category you might want to check out the numerous double action only type options out there (I would also (DAO, DAK, LEM, LDA, etc.). For example, Para Ordnance has a "light double action" trigger that is a great mix between single and double action. It has the longer take-up like a DA that is very light but a quick crisp break like a SA.

Also, pay attention to how quickly the trigger resets for follow-up shot. I find that the Sig Elites have an truly amazing quick reset. Being that they are steel frame guns, this lend itself to very quick and controllable quick follow-up shots.



Safeties

What are your preferences. If you want them, what kind (trigger safety, grip safety, safety button/lever, etc.)? I like them on SA pistols carried cocked but not on DA/DAO pistols. My personal belief is that the #1 safety is the trigger finger, keep it off the trigger and you should be okay.



Grip angle and Bore axis:

Look at different grip angles asking yourself if you like a relatively straight, slight curved, or wildly curved (Glock type) grip angle. I personally find I naturally shoot high with a Glock because of the angle of the grip. I have to adjust my aim to shoot accurately with one. Not much of a problem at the range, but what about when you are drawing and shooting out of instinct in a life or death situation? I don't know if I could trust myself to adjust for the angle "out of instinct."

Also for consider bore axis, which is the hight of the bore above the hand. The higher the bore axis the more muzzle flip you get when you fire the weapon. Muzzle flip is limited by a low bore axis. The lower the axis, the more straight back is recoil and the less muzzle flip. There is no leverage for the muzzle to rise. So, ask yourself whether you find a high, moderate, or low bore axis suits you best. I like a moderate bore axis with a decent weighted steel gun where much of the barrel rise can be absorbed by weight. However, I don't like a higher bore axis with a polymer frame.

And, don't be afraid to rent a few at a local range and see how they fire.

Wilson 17&26
September 20, 2007, 06:44 PM
His & Hers, under $600 for the pair.
http://www.wilson-genealogy.com/pics/MyPF-9.gif
http://www.wilson-genealogy.com/pics/HC%20PF-9s.gif

Alan Fud
September 23, 2007, 09:34 PM
What be they? His & Hers, under $600 for the pair.
http://www.wilson-genealogy.com/pics/MyPF-9.gif
http://www.wilson-genealogy.com/pics/HC%20PF-9s.gif Kel-Tecs?

orionengnr
September 23, 2007, 09:54 PM
I agree with the "no double stacks for carry" position. I have owned (and sold) double-stack S&W, Glock and Paras. They are not (nearly as) concealable IME. Try it for yourself--your body size/shape may allow different carry methods.

I carry Kahr polymer pistols (PM9 or P45) currently. I have occasionally carried (and would like to consistently carry) a single-stack 1911. Working on it.

pogo2
September 23, 2007, 10:30 PM
Given your $600 budget and your need for a compact in 9mm or .40, I would recommend a Kahr MK9, which is an all steel 9mm gun with 3 inch barrel and magazines of either 6 or 7 rounds. I have a variety of guns and like the Kahr for its extreme concealability and accuracy. The gun is the same slide thickness as a 1911 (0.90 inches flat to flat) and fits IWB very well. It weighs about 24 ounces empty, so is a little heavy for pocket carry but works well on the belt.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/KahrMK902.jpg

jeepmor
September 24, 2007, 01:01 AM
those are keltec pf9s.

glockman19
September 24, 2007, 01:16 AM
In 9mm Get a Glock 19. In .40 get a HK P200 or Sig 229.

Mmmmm 460
September 24, 2007, 01:39 AM
Don't forget to handle a SIG 239. I love shooting them: it's surely on my to-get-soon list.

TOADMAN
September 24, 2007, 09:29 AM
Got to go with proven reliability... Glock

aaronrkelly
September 25, 2007, 05:01 AM
I will be buying two of these so a company with either a lifetime or good service history is a plus.

After reading this statement and many, many reports of poor customer service from Taurus......I would NOT buy anything made by them.

MPanova
September 25, 2007, 08:14 AM
:rolleyes:

I have had nothing but great experiences with Taurus products and there customer service

I have read something bad about every company on the "internet" so Im never going to buy another gun again :rolleyes:

aaronrkelly
September 25, 2007, 08:58 AM
MPanova said:
I have had nothing but great experiences with Taurus products and there customer service

I have read something bad about every company on the "internet" so Im never going to buy another gun again

This place is lousy with "Taurus customer service sucks" threads. While I believe every company has a few bad ones.....Taurus is making a name for itself with it consistently horrible customer service.

Here are just the few I found in the last couple pages of searches.....they arent hard to find. Do a search for any other brand and see if you find as many complaints.

Taurus Customer Service Rant
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=279369&highlight=taurus+customer+service

Buy Taurus at your own risk, customer service is a joke, quality has gone down
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=292722&highlight=taurus+customer+service

Taurus Customer Service Sucks!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=284399&highlight=taurus+customer+service


This last one is from a dealer that cannot even get decent customer service from Taurus....

Thumbs down Taurus Customer Service is TERRIBLE!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=263476&highlight=taurus+customer+service

minutemen1776
September 25, 2007, 01:25 PM
Check out a S&W 3913 or 908. They are excellent guns for CCW.

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