Talked to my students about guns for over an hour..


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twoblink
July 9, 2003, 06:18 AM
While teaching English, I had a fairly long debate about guns, gun ownership, rifles vs. pistols, if guns are safe (in the right hands) etc..

:D

Oh, did I mention, I'm teaching basic English to the Army Generals here in Taiwan :evil:

Soldiers are fairly easy to talk gun talk to.. now if only I can try out a few rifles..

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Bainx
July 9, 2003, 08:19 AM
I can't believe you had to bring the subject of guns up to anybody in the military. Let alone try to debate it.

MicroBalrog
July 9, 2003, 08:29 AM
Details, please?

Fly Navy
July 9, 2003, 08:31 AM
You'd be surprised. In the ROTC unit I commissioned from, there is a prior enlisted midshipman that is so adamantly anti-gun. He thinks I'm completely psycho for owning firearms and liking to shoot. He believes only military and police should have access to firearms. I asked him if he ever read the constitution, the document he swore to defend. I also like to rail into him about how can he be a former Operations Specialist, someone that trained to launch missiles, and think that he has any higher capability to own firearms than Joe America. To really piss him off I'll tell him he should quit the military because he's not worthy. :evil:

Stetson_CO
July 9, 2003, 09:57 AM
Fly Navy,

I served with a bunch of people like that. I was stationed at Seal Beach NWS with 4 of them. They hated the bi monthly weapons qualification shoots we had to do. I loved it but I was the armorer anyway so I shot every day. They would moan and complain so Id make them go first just to get them out of there.

"You mean we have to shoot guns??!!??" :barf:


c):{

MLH
July 9, 2003, 12:00 PM
How did they plan to defend the country in case of war?:banghead:

Stetson_CO
July 9, 2003, 12:14 PM
That wasn't in their plans. They joined to get help with college, that is all, nothing else was considered. The plan was, do as little as possible, get an education, get out. No plan to contribute anything.


c):{

10-Ring
July 9, 2003, 12:26 PM
So, how did th debate go? Did they change, alter or strengthen any of your current ideas?

Skunkabilly
July 9, 2003, 01:03 PM
How come Skunk is always the tactical one? Next time we play I want to be the tactical one!

LOL...because I'm twotone :p

Mark Tyson
July 9, 2003, 04:46 PM
Yeah, I took an Air Force ROTC class once(I wasn't ROTC, just taking it for college credit). The instructor, a Captain passes out a copy of the constitution. He has someone read a few passages, then the 2nd Amendment. He comments:

"This amendment doesn't mean you can walk around with a gun on each hip. That's a popular misconception. It was intended to protect state militias."

I was so furious I wanted to explode, and I wrote a rather blunt course review.

Skunkabilly
July 9, 2003, 05:03 PM
"This amendment doesn't mean you can walk around with a gun on each hip. That's a popular misconception. It was intended to protect state militias."

How about: "The First Amendment doesn't mean you can actually express yourself. That's a popular misconception. It was indended to protect the media."

Henry Bowman
July 9, 2003, 05:09 PM
MLH - You are making the false assumption that everyone with or who shoots a gun is part of the "gun culture."

blue86buick
July 10, 2003, 01:44 AM
How about : "The First Amendment doesn't mean you can actually express yourself. That's a popular misconception. It was indended to protect the media."
wow skunk, that was...as my friends and I say...massive. Do you mind if I post that in my cube at work, and quote you elsewhere (to anti's, etc)?

Skunkabilly
July 10, 2003, 02:42 AM
blue86buick, fire at will. ;) Massive...that's like after cabbage and chili :eek:

A well regulated Press, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right to keep and read Books shall not be infringed.

waynzwld
July 10, 2003, 02:24 PM
Come on Twoblink, tell us more anout the conversations you had with them.

Inquring minds would like to know!

Sunray
July 10, 2003, 03:38 PM
"...midshipman..." Boat People. Is there a chance this guy will not advance to the real Navy?
"...Air Force..." Is this guy a flyer or a desk jockey? I can't imagine a combat type not being familiar with firearms. Mind you, I'd have been on my feet teaching the pidgeon how to read in a heart beat. Ok, I'd ask him where it says that.

Skunkabilly
July 10, 2003, 04:00 PM
Twoblink's too busy catching rats, calling the cops on his neighbors and hammering out his Cowboy Logistics (tm) to post here anymore :p

blue86buick
July 10, 2003, 04:36 PM
skunk:

[cartman voice]sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet[/cartman voice]

twoblink
July 10, 2003, 09:22 PM
I just had 9+ hours of class yesterday, don't have too much of a voice left.. Good thing I'm typing.

Contrary to popular belief, the "Elitist" mentality runs far and deep in the military.

One of my students (and might I add, the most attentive student I've ever had in my life) is also the head drill sergent of Taiwan).. He talked about how he felt the lack of rigorious training of the part of civilians would sway his opinion that civilians should own guns.

The generals however, seemed straight out, "Guns are for the military, _ONLY_"

But they were highly curious about the "gun culture" in America.

The Drill Sergent said because there are so many soldiers and so little budget, they only shoot 3x a month, and 1 case each time.

He said he was an ok shooter, (but from what the others all say, about 3" groups from iron sights @ 300m on his bad days doesn't sound just "ok" to me! If that's what I did on my bad days, I'd be posting pics everyday!) But because of the budget problems, they are actually EXCELLENT shooters, dry firing practice being a daily routine.

They couldn't get it into their heads, that a civilian could own a gun and be ok... They also didn't believe that a civilian could obtain adequate shooting skills without daily training.

Even on base, none of the officers are armed. Only MP's are armed on the base. I couldn't believe it!

They were however... VERY PRO bayonets.. They felt that everybody should have a bayonet. go figure..

And as far as the gun debates go.. Is there a gun debate that I lose?? :D

They asked about marksmenship. That was their primary concern as far as civilians owning guns.

Skunkabilly
July 10, 2003, 09:51 PM
My buddy in Korea said they spend more time training with chop sockey than they do with firearms. Probably because it's cheaper and keeps the bean counters happier? :confused:

MeekandMild
July 10, 2003, 10:26 PM
twoblink

If you want to explore this elitist attitude further get a copy of Carroll Quigley's book about weapons systems and political stability.

These weiner dogs probably have no experiance whatsoever with an army of the people such as the US fielded in WWII. Despite my sympathy toward them I realize ROC is an elitist, totalitarian regime only slightly more free than PRC.

Third world armies depend a great deal on the "expert" weaponry their "benefactor nations" provides for them. They are terrified of the idea that common peasants could be armed and possibly overcome the button pushers.

My 2 centavos.

twoblink
July 11, 2003, 03:04 AM
The focus on the bayonets, and the chop sockey is because;

I might run out of bullets, but the same blade can cut a million people if need be without resharpening..

Meek..

The ROC is like the cartoon, where the little dog is barking loudly, and thinks everybody is scared of them; but when in reality, it's because of the pitbull that's standing in the background.

Their comments such as "No way a civilian could outshoot a military guy". I asked them, who's put more bullets down range? Me or the entire class combined? We both knew the answer..

And of course, the annoying thing is, they all would like to (when they retire) be allowed to carry as well..

Remember, just because they use guns doesn't mean they are pro guns. They are PRO "I have a gun", which is very different than pro-gun.

If gun ownership was the prereq to being pro-gun, then Diane Not-so-Feinstein would be pro-gun.

Oh great, I said Diane after lunch.. Where's the ant-acid..
:barf:

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