wasting money


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colt.45
September 19, 2007, 11:51 PM
I see all of these people at the range and even on this forum wasting money(in my mind) lets see if anyone can help me figgure out why.

Why would anyone have a .243 deer rifle? Its a stupid waste of money. The whole "deer rifle" concept angers me to no extent. and heres why!

my friend's uncle has a few rifles and hunts every now and then. he has a marlin 336 in 30-30, a 30-06 rem700, and an ar-15. i went to visit him last week and he started talking about an elk hunting trip in montana with his buddies. he said that he needed a new rifle for the trip.

this brings me back to my point. a .243 deer rifle will do many things other than kill deer! it will infact kill alot of other thingd and you dont need to buy a ten diffrent rifles for specific hunting niches. you could get an accurate rem700 ltr and go hunt everything from prarie dog to black bear, and possibly even grizzly!!! im tired of seeing brainwashed, dumb hunters that think a .243 is THE only cartridge for deer. they make me look bad!

can i hear an amen?

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Bartkowski
September 19, 2007, 11:56 PM
Well a .243 kills deer, and anything smaller, so it has more than one purpose. a 30-06 will easily take elk and smaller, some use it on moose, but when you are trying to shoot very far on a very small animal, it isn't ideal. Also, I don't know if you have ever seen a coyote or smaller animal shot with a 30-06 with quickly expanding bullets, it tears the animal up and the fur is in poor poor condition. But I do know what you mean about lots of people using a .243 for deer, it is a little small for large deer, although it will do the job.

DiN_BLiX
September 20, 2007, 12:02 AM
243 is a popular round for YOUTH rifles. If I had a choice of only 1 hunting rifle it would be a 30-06, it will drop just about everything on the continent.

iamkris
September 20, 2007, 12:03 AM
#1 -- If this is making you so upset, I think you need more things to get angry about
#2 -- why are you so worried that people are "wasting money" by buying more guns. What's wrong with people wanting another gun? What wrong with people wanting guns for specific purposes?

I have over 85 guns in my collection (last time I bothered to count)...each has its own purpose...many overlap in what they could do, but that doesn't mean I don't like having them for the specific purpose for which I acquired them.

Count this as an anti-amen

igpoobah
September 20, 2007, 12:07 AM
No you cannot get an amen. :D Everybody wastes $$ ON SOMEthing. What they choose is their choice. He obviously doesn't feel like it is a waste. Besides, you can't have too many guns.:neener:

trueblue1776
September 20, 2007, 12:10 AM
Some guys have five grand worth of golf clubs and an ugly wife, to each his own.

But, for the record, I'm a cheap bastard too.

Car Knocker
September 20, 2007, 12:11 AM
Way I see it, it's THEIR money, not yours, to spend as they please. Who are you to say that they are wasting their money?

Geno
September 20, 2007, 12:12 AM
Amen...he should buy a 6MM Remington instead...that's a hyped-up .243!

Monkeybear
September 20, 2007, 12:12 AM
Sometimes I waste so much money on guns I end up with stuff I don't even want. Heck I wish I could buy another rifle and say "This rifle is for (insert reason here)". I don't think I am alone in this.


I need to spend more on ammo.

NDGeek
September 20, 2007, 12:17 AM
I think it comes down to "More than I need, not as many as I want" as others have said

Spending it on guns rather than say.. hookers and blow.. isn't all bad.

BTW.. I use a .243 for deer hunting, coyote hunting and prairie dog disintigration but I still call it my "Deer Rifle".. now that is weird.

glockman19
September 20, 2007, 12:19 AM
If I had a choice of only 1 hunting rifle it would be a 30-06, it will drop just about everything on the continent.

+1

My hunting rifle is a Remington 700 CDL in .30-06. Notice I said "hunting rifle" NOT Hunting "Rifles". I do, however, have a marlin 1894 .44 mag for bear. and... the mini-14 or AR's will do find on varmints. 10/22 isn't bad either.

blackhawk2000
September 20, 2007, 12:21 AM
Why do you have an M1 Garand, and an AR15? Both are military pattern rifles. Pointless to own 2 of those. Also why a 10-22, and an AR15? Both are .22 caliber. Again another waste of money. What do you need that Burris for? Ain't you got no eyes? Another waste of money.

colt.45
September 20, 2007, 12:22 AM
wow 85 thant impressive. well when you have that many guns each one should have a specific purpose, but lets say you saw a guy with a .22 hornet, a .243 and a .223. and that person was complaining about needing more versalinity. you could say that he could have done alot better with a rimfire, a .243 and say something like a 30-06. he would have a much more practical arsenal.

and i dont ever have a problem with someone wanting a gun. but the people that do what im talking about read 1 an article in guns and ammo, or hear from one guy that .243 works great on deer. bam, he has it fixed in his mind that .243 is the cartridge for deer, and it wont work for anything else.

and i am certainly not picking on the .243. its just an example.

browningguy
September 20, 2007, 12:23 AM
Well let's see, for rifles I hunt with regularly I have .223, 6x45, .270, 7x57, .308, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 7.65x53, .458 Winchester. I have more than one of several of those calibers, and now I'm thinking about what to get next. I also have lots of golf clubs in case it matters, but my wife isn't considered ugly.

And why do you care what I spend my money on?

ssr
September 20, 2007, 12:25 AM
Hey, if I can somehow come up with some justification, no matter how farfetched, for buying another gun, I will jump at it.

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 20, 2007, 12:26 AM
Can anyone who understands ranting hyterics please translate that for the rest of us? Does the original poster feel slighted that the .243 exists, does he just not like people looking for an excuse to buy another rifle, or does the name "deer rifle" upset him because you can shoot things other than deer? :confused:

enkindler
September 20, 2007, 12:26 AM
I reckon it's for the same reasons I help my neighbors change the wheel bearings on there car, so I have an excuse to buy another tool.

I'm cheap but I have no problem spending money on things that will last for decades.

Then again I have two hunting rifles, the same two my dad bought in the 70's and they do me fine, my reasons for buying the others was pure recreation.

DoubleTapDrew
September 20, 2007, 12:27 AM
What's wrong with an excuse for another rifle? I use my 7mm-08 for deer and .300 weatherby for elk. I've seen a good deal of meat wasted by using too large a caliber for deer, and I hate to see an animal that doesn't die quickly by using a marginal caliber or not having that perfect hit.
I almost bought a Ruger Alaskan in .454 before a recent fishing trip to Alaska. Would I be in an area with bears? No. But it's a great excuse!

Regolith
September 20, 2007, 12:35 AM
I'm with the "anti-amens" on this one.

Basically: So what? If the guy wants to spend HIS money on another rifle, whats the problem with that? What's the problem with having different guns set up for different tasks, even if those tasks could overlap? You COULD have a single gun set up to kill anything from praire dogs to moose, but you'd have to change the POI for the rifle every time you take on a different game. There is also the fact that certain TYPES of rifles are better for different TYPES of hunting, even though the calibers they are chambered in are suited for similar game species. For instance, that Marlin .30-30 and the Rem 700 are both suitable for deer, but the Marlin is better suited for closer distances and hunting in dense forests, where as the Rem 700 is better suited for long ranges and areas without a lot of cover.

Its possible he wants a new rifle for hunting ELK in MONTANA because his Remington 700 WEIGHS TOO MUCH. There will be a lot of walking and carrying of gear involved in Montana, and so a lighter mountain gun would be more appropriate than a heavier gun, particularly if he's got that 700 set up as a bench rest rifle.

Then there are folks who just like to collect guns. Its their hobby. Hell, my father has FOUR different rifles capable of taking deer. He's got two M77's in 7mm-08 and .280, a Sako Finnwolf in .308, and a .30-30 lever rifle. Why four different rifles? One reason is that my mother hunted with him, then later my brother and I did as well. Another reason he got the .30-30 while still living in Oregon, and needed something for longer range when he moved out into the desert in Nevada (which is when he got the M77's). The Finnwolf he just happened to get a good deal on, and it was a rifle he couldn't have aquired otherwise (the guy he bought it from bought it in Finland, and Sako never exported the model).

Put simply, there are LOTS of reasons to own multiple firearms that are capable of doing similar things. And its not always a waste of money.

iamkris
September 20, 2007, 12:42 AM
lets say you saw a guy with a .22 hornet, a .243 and a .223. and that person was complaining about needing more versalinity

I'd say more power to him. He just got to experience 3 really cool calibers and now has the opportunity to go buy more guns that fit what he is looking for.

You keep hinting that people need to have a "practical arsenal". What's the prize for that? I'd say that a "practical arsenal" is boring...what's the fun of just having a couple of guns or a few guns? The more the merrier I say.

Wanna hear something really crazy? I have multiple copies of exactly the same gun. .45 SAAs, 1911s, K98s, Garands, etc. What a waste of money!!

Harry Paget Flashman
September 20, 2007, 12:45 AM
ssr said it very well: Hey, if I can somehow come up with some justification, no matter how farfetched, for buying another gun, I will jump at it.

I would only change the word "jump" to "lunge".

colt.45
September 20, 2007, 12:48 AM
wow, you all totally missed the point. i tried to make it more simple from the get-go, but lets see if i can re-explain myself.

i was merely pointing out that some people even when in a tight money situation, will make a bad choice buying a new gun that will do the same thing as another rifle he already has, even when he wants to do something else that he cant do with his existing guns.. when youre starting out, you should be trying to expant your versatility, across the board. why would you buy a rifle that does nothing more than what you have, if you also want a rifle for another purpose also?

and it never ceases to amase me how literally people on the internet will take things, and then procede to try to make people look stupid.

Harry Paget Flashman
September 20, 2007, 12:59 AM
Posting is kind of like target practice. Sometimes we don't hit the mark or sometimes the target appears fuzzy. The Internet is a real crapshoot. :)

trueblue1776
September 20, 2007, 01:06 AM
Colt-
I guess I see what you're getting at, I have a buddy that can't hit the broad side of a barn who has a blueprinted 700 in an AICS stock, and a host of other ninja goodies.

I'm happy using a .30-06, I have loads from 110gr-220gr depending on the game. It's shocking how many passionate shooters never realize how versatile their guns really are.

BridgeWalker
September 20, 2007, 01:24 AM
It seems to me that at least half the fun of a big hunting trip would be a new rifle to take along.

Personally, I think I need at least four different guns for shooting clay birds. sadly, I own but one so far, but seein' as how I'm convinced I direly need three more guna to accomodate different styles of clays I can't fault anyone for wanting a rifle to hunt a vastly different critter with.

dstorm1911
September 20, 2007, 01:42 AM
Man and here I thought that L1A1 with the custom Rem 700 .243 barrel, DSA optics mount and 10x scope was only good for shooting Zombies at extended ranges ya mean its good for deer too???? ;)

O.K so now answer me this if the L1A1 is now my deer rifle then what does the 7.62X51 Ishy enfield become cause that was my deer rifle before the L1a1 just got reclassified a few minutes ago........... so what should I call it now?

peyton
September 20, 2007, 04:01 AM
I think the object of gun purchasing is to enjoy the beauty and joy of ownership, I got 7 vehicles, each serve a different purpose (those kids all going to different schools). Each rifle I have might share caliber but I use for different hunting. Best example is my two Winchester Model 70's. Both are in 270 Win but one has a beautiful blueing and wood stock, the second is stainless steel and synthetic stock. Good weather, hunting out of a deer stand. the blued one goes. Bad weather, walking, rain or snow the synthetic goes. Both harvest deer and both are unique. Lastly, common calibers are smart if you reload.

palmtech
September 20, 2007, 04:40 AM
I own 3 .308 rifles, (yes that was three) an Hk-91 for defense and 2 Enfield 2A's one tricked out with all the bells and whistles and one in stock condition, for its original unalterded looks and functionality, besides I will always have spare parts for either one of the Enfield's, and I do not think it was a waste of money either? I hunt, everything from rabbit to deer with the .308, all depends where you place your shots!

U.S.SFC_RET
September 20, 2007, 07:48 AM
The .243 is Ideal for deer, drops em dead with the right load. I have never seen an armored deer. You really don't need a 7mm mag for em. The .243 is flat,flat,flat shooting but some people under rate this cartridge. Don't panic about wasting money it stimulates the economy.

dogngun
September 20, 2007, 09:36 AM
I'm also a cheap bastard...My .243 is a second-hand Savage 110.

Mark

igpoobah
September 20, 2007, 09:46 AM
wow, you all totally missed the point. i tried to make it more simple from the get-go, but lets see if i can re-explain myself.

i was merely pointing out that some people even when in a tight money situation, will make a bad choice buying a new gun that will do the same thing as another rifle he already has, even when he wants to do something else that he cant do with his existing guns.. when youre starting out, you should be trying to expant your versatility, across the board. why would you buy a rifle that does nothing more than what you have, if you also want a rifle for another purpose also?

and it never ceases to amase me how literally people on the internet will take things, and then procede to try to make people look stupid.

Hey, you should have said that in your first post. We didn't miss the point, you failed to deliver it. What you said above doesn't look anything like your first post. Perhaps you should start this one over with better wording so we know what the real question is... ;)

JohnBT
September 20, 2007, 10:25 AM
"and it never ceases to amase me how literally people on the internet will take things, and then procede to try to make people look stupid."

I try to do all I can to minimize their opportunities, but it doesn't always work out.

John

ceetee
September 20, 2007, 11:52 AM
What I don't understand is how all those people keep on wasting money on steaks when there's all those Ramen noodles they could be eating...

rc109a
September 20, 2007, 01:40 PM
Maybe someone needs to help that poor guy out and educate him. There are a lot of people out there with guns. Most do a lot of reasearch before they buy. Others just rely on someone else to do the research for them. Then they just follow in their footsteps and repeat what they were told, not realizing that it was false information. Most likely he thinks he is making a good choice and a faily educated one at that. Remember you only learn through your mistakes. You only know you made one when someone tells you...

RedeyeGunner
September 20, 2007, 01:47 PM
Isn't half the allure and fun of shooting being able to collect different firearms? At one time I was collecting WW2 era rifles and shooting them. Had nothing to do with need, it was just enjoyable having different rifles even if there wasn't any different use for them. Granted, if one has a limited budget, it would be good to get the gun that would be most versatile. But hey, if you got the bucks, go for it!

berettashotgun
September 20, 2007, 02:05 PM
"Wasting money............"
what the heck? Maybe you need to quit wasting money on a internet service provider, you would get less madder..
Do you shop exclusively at the thrift/second hand store? or maybe only garage sales???
Pardon me for returning your question, normally I'd ignore inflammatory posters like yourself.
Take a long hard look at yourself before you start to throw any stones 'round here. EVERYONE lives in a glass house to some extent ~ I'm just trying to minimize the BB holes in my house > ;)

SoCalShooter
September 20, 2007, 02:27 PM
if you are spending money on a gun you ain't wasting no money you are investing.

Deer Hunter
September 20, 2007, 02:32 PM
Variety is the spice of life.

hksw
September 20, 2007, 02:38 PM
why would you buy a rifle that does nothing more than what you have, if you also want a rifle for another purpose also?

Why not? If they have the money to do so, why even question other people's purchases?

Your solution would be to buy one accurate .30-'06 or .375 and not bother with any other rifles of different calibers that fall below its terminal performance?

trueblue1776
September 20, 2007, 04:15 PM
if you are spending money on a gun you ain't wasting no money you are investing.

Investing in a product with a negative financial return. ;)

dstorm1911
September 20, 2007, 04:27 PM
Trueblue, actually very true when talking about commercial mass produced hunting rifles, however of over 4K military surplus rifles I can say that all have APPRECIATED in value one example being Chinese SKS rifles that I paid $45 ea for unissued new in the early 90s or the French Mas 36s I paid the same for but are now $200+ and then there are the mausers, I bought 12 full crested unissued Czech VZ24s in 2004 at $109 ea they have appreciated over 6 times their purchase price in just 3 years......

When it comes to firearms as investments, the mass produced commercial guns only fall in value but excellent to unissued milsurp rifles only climb in value and most are perfectly suitable for hunting anything in the world :D

Milsurplus acc. such as magazines even go up, I bought 200 Chinese 75 rnd drums new still sealed in the 90s at $10 ea they are now selling for up to $250 ea! A Russian AKM Parts set last week sold on Gunbroker for $2025.00 we bought 2000 of these kits not long ago at $11 each most identical or better than the one auctioned off............

here is the auction as its now closed

http://www.forthehunt.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=80154026

Military weapons, parts and accesaries are deffinetly a valid investment, both of my NFA registered Thompsons cost me $75 and $100 ea..... after 1986 they jumped to $25K ea :D

BobMcG
September 20, 2007, 05:16 PM
Investing in a product with a negative financial return.

There is a true side to that coin but then again it all depends on what you buy. ;) I've a few old Winchesters and Springfields that have done nothing but increase in value. :)

trueblue1776
September 20, 2007, 07:10 PM
So what you guys are getting at is; these "collectibles" are collectible? ;)

I was implying that the average Marlin/Remington/Rossi/etc. is not the equivalent of a Mickey Mantle baseball card. If kept in perfect condition, most likely they will still only be worth low retail (if that). Barring anything historically significant or of remarkably high quality.

BobMcG
September 20, 2007, 09:24 PM
I was implying that the average Marlin/Remington/Rossi/etc. is not the equivalent of a Mickey Mantle baseball card. If kept in perfect condition, most likely they will still only be worth low retail (if that).

Yup, the true side to the coin I mentioned.

Barring anything historically significant or of remarkably high quality.

The other side of the (collectible) coin. :)

Eyesac
September 20, 2007, 09:43 PM
Everyone should buy what they like. But I'll never own a .243...:)

MCgunner
September 20, 2007, 09:59 PM
If I could only have one rifle......I'd be very bored.

For years, I had one rifle, a .257 Roberts I inherited from my grandpa. Well, I had a .30-30 Savage M340 for a while, then sold it to my Uncle. I used that .257 when I went deer hunting...period. However, came the time I started thinking about New Mexico hunting. I decided if I were going to hunt elk, I needed a bigger gun. I bought a Savage in 7 mag. Now, the elk hunt fell through and the only thing I ever shot with that Savage was 4 whitetail and a New Mexico mulie. I spent 200 on that Savage and about 200 on scope and rings. I fell into a Weatherby 3x9x44 supreme sell out for 150, HECKUVA deal! Fantastic scope, compares with 400-500 dollar scopes.

So, then I had a .257 and a 7 mag. I had been reading about this Remington M7 stainless and really wanted one in .308, what I consider the perfect all around Texas/New Mexico hunting rifle/caliber combination. One day, I won a Remington BDL in .25-06 as the door prize of a local gun show I went to. I picked up the rifle and ran down the street to another gun shop to ask if they had a M7 stainless in .308 and would they consider a trade. They did, we did, and I had to spend 300 extra bucks on a scope and mounts, but I got my dream rifle and have hunted with it, killed multiple hogs, deer, and coyotes since then.

I also have a sporter SKS that's pretty worthless, but is fun at the range. I have a .357 lever carbine basically for the same reason. So, I feel I have three NICE rifles, very accurate, and can cover ANY hunting situation with that caliber selection from shooting prairie dogs (we don't have any) or coyotes with the .257 (or deer), to elk and larger game with the 7 mag and I pretty much have shelved both of those rifles for the last ten years because I have this perfect hunting rifle in the Remington M7 in .308. So, what's wrong with having even MORE rifles if you like rifles, are a rifleman, bury yourself in ballistics tables, what not???? Hey, don't like it? It ain't against the law to own more'n one gun, ya know. When it becomes such, I'll move.

BTW, for investment, go with milsurps. My 80 dollar Hakim is worth at least 400 bucks now, I'm told. Wish I'd bought a couple hundred of 'em. LOL I can tell ya this, if I made a lot more money, I'd have a lot more rifles, shotguns, handguns, .22s, milsurps, you name it.

doc2rn
September 20, 2007, 10:01 PM
I have 3 rifles each w/ a purpose
Ruger 77/22 in .22 mag
Rem 700 in .223
Arisaka in 6.5x50
I can not imagine what I would need more firepower for. Xcept maybe a mall Ninja.
Rifles are just tools in the hands of someone who should know how to best employ them. Far be it for me to tell someone else what to do.

trueblue1776
September 21, 2007, 01:03 PM
I can not imagine what I would need more firepower for.

The zombies chuckle with glee...



:D

Bazooka Joe71
September 21, 2007, 02:30 PM
I have rifles in 30-06, x39, x54r, .22, and .223. Thats just about covers it for anything I need it for, but what does it hurt to have more? I try my hardest to keep my calibers down, so I can just buy bulk in a few opposed to many, but if I see a purdy rifle in my gunshop that needs a home, then why not? Its my money.

I'd try not to get to worked up about it...There are way more important things to be thinking about other than people at the range wasting money.:)

Richard.Howe
September 21, 2007, 03:21 PM
While a .243 is an acceptable deer chambering...it's light-years from ideal. Pass. There are much better all-round decisions.

benEzra
September 21, 2007, 03:59 PM
why would you buy a rifle that does nothing more than what you have, if you also want a rifle for another purpose also?
I've done it before, in the midst of a financial tight spot, when I bought my SAR-1 (civvie AK) even though I already had a Ruger mini-14 with a pistol grip stock and good magazines. Why? Because I wanted a civilian AK, even though it was functionally identical to what I already had, and at that time it wasn't clear if they would be available in the future.

I suppose I could have bought something different, like a .30-06 or something, but what would be the point? I wanted that particular make and model, not a Remchester. And I ended up liking the "AK" better than the (188 series) Ruger, so it was a good choice, I think, and the value will only go up.

gezzer
September 22, 2007, 01:31 AM
Waste? You are kidding right? .243 not enough for deer? You need to do research besides the internet IMHO.

A .243 and a 95 grain Nosler partition or a Barnes X bullet will kill a deer no problem 300-350 yards which is more than most can shoot no matter what caliber.

2RCO
September 22, 2007, 01:39 AM
All that "wasted" money keeps the firearms industry rolling. Thank god for money wasters!

sublimaze41
September 22, 2007, 04:04 AM
I bought a Nagant from AIM for $78. Will probably only shoot it a few times and at nothing dangerous to be sure. Why do I have it? Because I want it and it's cool to me having a piece of history.

3/4 of my gun collection "overlaps" and really serves no specific purpose. FWIW, I believe a .243 is more than enough for whitetail deer. Once again it is about bullet selection and bullet placement.

MCgunner
September 22, 2007, 09:28 AM
There are those that think the .223 is the best deer round available. I don't think so. I figure of a kid can't handle the recoil of a .243 (real deer rifle caliber), he don't need to be hunting, yet. I think those .223 guys are just trying to find something useful to do with their ARs until the Hind helicopters come with their fast roping ninjas, justify the purchase if you will. But, I ain't seen the deer that was .243 proof. It's a popular caliber, especially for the recoil sensitive, in Texas. It packs as much punch as the .30-30 and carries it farther. Of course our deer are a little bigger than our Jackalopes.

countryrebel
September 23, 2007, 02:19 PM
I like to have lots of different guns so when I open my gun cabinet doors I can sit there and think about which one I want to take.Sure my 30-06 will do everything I need it to but sometimes I like to use different guns to keep things exciting,sometimes I get bored with the same gun time after time.I go deer hunting with my AR and have yet to see one that is 223 proof,or any coyotes and also I find many things useful with my ar.I did not buy it on the notion of hind's flying around either.

MarinePride
September 23, 2007, 06:58 PM
I like "wasting money" on guns. At least they will be there for years and years, unlike other things I have spent money on. Live and let live. Everyone needs a hobby.

W.E.G.
September 23, 2007, 07:38 PM
I've been using this on deer at my house.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wristrocket2.jpg

I am convinced that it is not effective.

I think I need a .243

I LIKE IT!
September 23, 2007, 07:48 PM
Colt,

It's not your money, I get your point. My your own buisness
and have a good time.:)

brian923
September 23, 2007, 07:59 PM
i NEED a bazooka!!!!!!!! hunt, clean, fast humain kill, and cooked all at the same time!!:D

mljdeckard
September 23, 2007, 08:30 PM
I have a good friend who is a gun guy, but when he was very young, his father, as a nasty trick, let him shoot his Mod 70 featherweight on 30-06. Yeah, I know.

Since then, he is afraid, (despite the fact that he is now a 6'5" 240 adult) to shoot bolt guns. He is afraid that he will always be flinching. I have advised him to look into a .243, because it is a rifle that he can get in a light-medium weight bolt-rifle, which he won't mind carrying, and that first time he shoots it to sight it in, he will breathe a sigh of relief. "Wow, that wasn't so bad after all." And it absolutely WILL do the job.

When my wife has more time to hunt deer with me, I will likely get her the same thing. II won't try to get her a rifle similar to the medium-weight .270 I carry. She will hate shooting it so bad she will never want to practice.

KI.W.
September 23, 2007, 08:48 PM
I have only 22Horn, 222Rem, 223Rem, 22-250Rem, 308Win, 30-06Spr, 9,3 Maus, 9mmLuger, 357Rem max.and 12-70. Needing mayby 2-3 more. Here in Finland are 5300000 people and only 1600000 legal guns. Ilegal enough I think.:rolleyes:

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