Why is it recommended not to lubricate an AK gas piston?


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Cannonball888
September 21, 2007, 11:00 AM
Seems like it woud lessen wear and work better

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MD_Willington
September 21, 2007, 11:25 AM
oil & grease burn...

I wouldn't want dieseling to occur in my non vented gas tube...


but I'm sure there is a better reason not to do it...

Bwana John
September 21, 2007, 11:26 AM
Because the piston is compressing air as it recipracates, any oil in the air could lead to diesiling.:eek:

ZeSpectre
September 21, 2007, 11:36 AM
Because the piston is compressing air as it reciprocates, any oil in the air could lead to dieseling.

Precisely. Also even if it doesn't "diesel" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieseling), you could still build up hydraulic pressure (http://www.tpub.com/content/engine/14037/css/14037_67.htm) and guess what part of the gun would give first.

rcmodel
September 21, 2007, 11:51 AM
It has much more to do with carbon build-up then dieseling or hydraulic pressure.

Excess oil in a gas system will soon burn off and turn to very hard carbon that is very difficult to remove.
Much more so then the powder fouling that accumulates there.

My experience, as well as my military training on the M-1 Carbine, M-1 Garand, M-14, M-16, and M-60 MG is that you should clean & oil a gas system, but wipe off all the excess oil when you get done.

Leave only enough oil film to prevent (on non-plated systems) corrosion.

Since the AK system is plated, it will not corrode or rust, but a very light oil film left on the parts certainly can't hurt anything either.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Dave Markowitz
September 21, 2007, 07:30 PM
It has much more to do with carbon build-up then dieseling or hydraulic pressure.

Correct.

Note that while the AK's piston is chromed, the gas cylinder is not. They can and will rust if you don't give them a light coat of oil to inhibit corrosion (BTDT). If you live in a dry area this may not be a problem, but in a humid climate you'll get rust if you don't.

ZeSpectre
September 21, 2007, 07:37 PM
It has much more to do with carbon build-up then dieseling or hydraulic pressure.

I stand corrected. This was part of the information I was told "back when" so I guess that myth has been -busted- <grin>.

LeibstandarteAdH
September 21, 2007, 07:42 PM
As stated by Peter Kokalis, it is not to be done as the atmosphere and tempature would instantly carbonize and or "glaze" any of todays known lubricants within the first shot or two.

LeibstandarteAdH
September 21, 2007, 07:46 PM
And to the logic that it will diesel and blow up in your face, or do anything that you will even notice besides possibly make more carbon build up. The ammount of energy released in a dubiously over lubricated gas system could never even come close to detonating with 2-3% of the energy that is already acting upon it due to the fact that it is a gas system in a firearm in the first place.

JA
September 21, 2007, 09:19 PM
Been using CLP on all my firearms for the last 15+ years. The microscopic particles of PTFE (Teflon) in CLP gets into the pores of the metal so the carbon doesn't stick as tight to it. Cleaning the carbon off the gas piston takes a lot less scrubbing and can be done with a toothbrush instead of a brush with metal brissels.

pdowg881
September 21, 2007, 09:31 PM
I read the same thing about not lubing the SKS piston, and to keep it dry. The first thing I thought off was to avoid letting the crap in the gas and the liquid oil mixing to turn into a gritty goo.

aloharover
September 21, 2007, 11:36 PM
Depending on where you get the Ak from the Gas piston is stainless, not chromed.
But it follows the same, don't use oil on the gas piston :D

dstorm1911
September 21, 2007, 11:55 PM
I love it when I see that dieseling explanation posted its almost as good as the ones people will tell ya bout hydraulic pressure... I actually had an "expert" at a gun show argue this one with me when I was forced to correct him as he was scarein a couple folks with tales of exploding AKs etc.... he was new and didn't know me by sight as most do here in AZ or at Knob creek etc...

The guys who said CARBON get a big gold star...... the others need to revisit high school auto shop for basics covering dieseling (requires compression) and Hydraulic lock (also requires compression) then stop and think bout the design of the AK

the gas port is not a one way valve it is simply a hole drilled into your barrel, when either of two things happens that barrel is simply an open tube #1 the bullet leaves the muzzle #2 the empty shell is pulled outa the chamber at either time the barrel is no longer sealed so no possibility for any pressurized condition otherwise ya'd kinda have a hard time cycling the action wouldn't you as the gas piston would be fighting that compression while attempting to seat in the gas block wouldn't it?............... those who stated either of the above please move to the front of the class and bring your chairs with you :D

jpwilly
September 22, 2007, 01:40 AM
When I clean my SKS gas tube and piston I spray cleaner/lube all over and wipe out and have not had any issues.

dstorm1911
September 22, 2007, 02:35 AM
JP Willy I never do either, I have ALOT of AKs as well as other guns, while in the racks they have a heavier than normal coating of LSA oil occasionally I'll miss pullin the bolt carrier on one to dry the gas tube/piston as we may have 20 AKs out on the range at one time anyway when I go to clean em after everyone has left I always notice how easy it is to clean the LSA oiled gas tubes and pistons the deposits just wipe off like soot.... I think its more dependant upon the type of lube used some are more sensitive to heat than others, I use LSA more than any other lube and it never seems to breakdown with heat

Don't Tread On Me
September 22, 2007, 02:53 AM
LOL!

Ridiculous.

Dieseling ....haha!


I see the whole "run em dry" hysteria is now making its way to the AK world...

We've come a long way mankind has! The "Old school" of oiling metal parts has been replaced by the newb-school of run 'em dry.


Back to reality:


Oil your firearm. It prevents rust and makes cleaning the fouling a heck of lot easier. Use common sense. Put down a normal thin film.


When it gets nasty in there, hit it up with a shotgun brush. Easy, fast and effective. I sometimes hose it out with brake cleaner. But AK tubes get that caked on stuff which is why a brush is handy.


Whomever says don't oil doesn't take care of their firearms properly. Powder fouling on metal will collect moisture and cause rust.


You don't need to clean it often, it's an AK. However, don't abuse the rifle by letting the tube rust on the inside because you believe in nonsense like an AK "dieseling" ...


It's your rifle and your life. Believe what you want.


That's my $0.03

RedeyeGunner
September 22, 2007, 03:57 AM
I've been using Remington dry lube on my barrels, innards and actions for ages. No oil to attract crap, great protection against rust and crud, makes it easier to clean also.

Andrewsky
September 22, 2007, 04:04 AM
I keep my M1A gas system completely dry.

Obiwan
September 22, 2007, 11:39 AM
With all the corrosive ammo , my AK's get a quick swab out with Slip2000 every time

There are zero issues with buildup of carbon

Eyesac
September 22, 2007, 11:41 AM
Dieseling. LOL

Roadkill
September 22, 2007, 05:58 PM
I use Breakfree on mine. Easier to clean. Hit it with carb cleaner, scrub off carbon with steel wool, lube & set up for next time.

Nameless_Hobo
September 22, 2007, 06:08 PM
I've always given it one spray of Remoil.
Never had any problems.

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