[Jorg]

Lots of us have heard of problems with the Winchester Universal Bulk Packs, but I just wanted to try to quantify our experiences with them.

Please limit this to first hand experience, either something you've experienced personally or seen someone experience.

The shells in question are the economy 100 packs found at Wal-Mart.

[Superreverb]

I just recently started buying this ammo in 20-ga (2-1/2 dram; 7/8-oz #8). So far, I've put 200-rounds of it through my little Parker Repro.

No problems. No failure to fire. No failure to eject. No hard closing.

I should buy some in 12-ga and test it out in my pump guns...

I'll be watching this thread with keen interest.

Regards - Ed

[ArchAngelCD]

"Bulk Pack" shell are the same shells you buy in smaller boxes of 25. The only difference is you are getting a better price because you are buying in quantity.

[GigaBuist]

I've never had a problem, but I've only shot around 800 of them I bet.

[Striker]

I've had extraction problems with Winchester Value Pack shells in several of my 12 Ga 870's.

Relegated the remainder to O/U duty (no problems )and haven't purchased any recently.

[Jorg]

"Bulk Pack" shell are the same shells you buy in smaller boxes of 25.

The same as which boxes of 25? They aren't the same as the Winchester Supreme, Super-X or AA. They may be the same as the Super-Target, I've had no experience with those.

I've never actually seen boxes of Winchester Universal sold as just a box of 25 anywhere.

[ArmedBear]

I've had extraction problems with Winchester Value Pack shells in several of my 12 Ga 870's.

Ditto. It'll work fine in a loose-chambered break-action, but I have no reason to keep bulk shells around that match a particular gun. Specialized target rounds, maybe, but not bulk stuff.

"Bulk Pack" shell are the same shells you buy in smaller boxes of 25.

Negative on that. At least I've never found the same shells in other Winchester boxes. Most obviously, they have different hulls.

And while I won't ever buy Universal bulk shells again, any other Winchester ammo has been fine, and I wouldn't hesitate to use Winchester shotgun ammunition of any other type. (I happen to prefer STS to AA, but that's neither here nor there.)

At Wally World, I buy the Federals if I want inexpensive bulk ammo. Same price as the Winchester, but IMO better stuff all around. For more serious target shooting, or if I want to reload the hulls, the Remington Sport Loads are great. However, the price has climbed significantly higher than the Federal bulk shells, so I am a bit more picky about buying the Remingtons.

In my experience, Remington's hulls are the best at several price points. Highly reloadable, even the cheapest ones. However, if I'm going to toss the hulls, e.g. while hunting, I don't care. (Yes, I do try to pick up my hulls, not just leave them around in the field. But they get dirty and muddy, and I'm not fond of reloading muddy hulls when I plenty of clean ones.)

[Milkmaster]

Have bought many of both the Winchester and Federal Value Packs at Wal-mart to use for trap shooting. Never had a fail to fire, fail to eject, or any other problem. The guns I use to shoot them are Remington 1100's, Winchester 1300 pumps, Savage Model 24 20 ga, Remington Spartan 12ga, and a couple of Baretta high dollar O/U's people have offered me to shoot.

I hear others complain here, but I just have had no problems with them. In 12 ga I buy the 7 1/2 x 3 dram Eq x 1 1/8oz cause they are the cheapest here at $16 per 100 box plus tax and the darn TN ammo fee.

[sm]

#2

Problems as shared above, and includes bulk packs bought at other "Franchises" other than Wal-Mart.

From missing primers, primers in sideways, out of specs, to erratic report, patterning, and reliability problems.

In dissecting these shells...umm...powder charges varied and someone must have run over the soft shot with a forklift before these pellets were loaded up.

I have no problem with "flat shot" old trick we used to do on purpose, but we did not want flat shot, thank you very much.


I think these would sell better as Malf Drill loads ...then again they would have to charge more for the name change....

[benatilstate]

Used to have problems with it in the 870 (very common), but had the gunsmith bore out the chamber just a tad and I dont think I have seen the problem with it again. And to quantify, I have probably shot 40ish rounds of skeet with my 870 since I had it bored out. My 870 has kind of been relegated to work/loaner gun recently since I bought my Red Label.

Also, I wont slam the 'cheap, bulk ammo'. I use it regularly for skeet in my relatively new Red Label and I have never heard a clay complain, nor have I had any fail to fire. I find that I am way less accurate and consistant than even this ammo, so until I can tell a difference, I will be saving money on shells until I have the capital and space to buy reloading equipement. Simply put, I dont think I'll hit any more or less targets with expensive ammo than with cheap ammo, so why fork out the extra money?

[JKimball]

I've never had a problem with it in my Winchester pump. Unless... maybe I can blame the ammo on those clays that got away. :D

The only difference is you are getting a better price because you are buying in quantity.


I remember one trip to Walmart when it was actually cheaper to purchase the individual boxes of 25 than it was to purchase the "value pack." I think that was with Federal. I pointed it out to the associate and he said, "yeah, I know. Weird, huh?"

[ArmedBear]

Also, I wont slam the 'cheap, bulk ammo'.

Neither will I. Just the Winchester stuff. The Federal and Remington bulk ammo is perfectly fine.

I reload, so I have a gauge. Nothing that was sized to spec ever failed to feed smoothly in my 870.

Used to have problems with it in the 870 (very common), but had the gunsmith bore out the chamber just a tad

ROTFL

[benatilstate]

Not sure where the humor lies in my previous statement, but my 870 was having problems extracting winchesters AND FEDERALs. The gunsmith said he had done many 870s and that it used to be covered under the remington warranty.

[acman145acp]

I've had trouble with it in my 870 but i think it's a gun issue as much as ammo since i've used it in my beretta and fn with no problems at all and my best friend uses it in his cd and mossberg with no issues.

[Regolith]

Haven't bought any recently, but some time ago (five or so years) my father bought some of the cheap Winchester stuff in 20 gauge.

It failed to fit well in the chamber of an older Stevens 311, and was difficult to remove. It didn't cycle very well in a Browning Auto-5 Light 20 either. Haven't bought any of it since then.

[ArmedBear]

I've had trouble with it in my 870 but i think it's a gun issue

For ten bucks, you can find out. Like I said, I have a gauge because I reload.

It's the ammo.

The other guns have larger-than-spec chambers. The same problem occurs if you reload hulls, especially inexpensive steel base hulls, without sizing them, and some of the same guns are more or less picky about it.

I guess you could fault Remington for making their chambers to industry spec.

my 870 was having problems extracting winchesters AND FEDERALs

You didn't say that before.:)

[Jon_Z]

Double Post

[Jon_Z]

Over 2000 Rounds thru my SX3 without any problems

[Gearhead Jim]

(From my memory) Two years ago I patterned 3 shells each from Value Packs of Federal, Winchester, and Remington, all from WalMart; and AA. 12ga 3dr 1 1/8 #8.
Used the full choke (Briley tube) in my Browning BSS.
Shortly after, I repeated the test with a different lot of each brand.

In summary, the AA patterns were slightly denser and more even than the various Value Packs, but the difference was small. In the first test, Remington was best of the VP loads. With the next lot, Winchester was best. In each test, the differences between brands were small.

I also fired 25 rds of each in my Rem 11-87 Police, no problems of any kind.

Since then, I've fired about 1k of the Winchester VP in my BSS with absolutely no problems. I don't gauge the shells, and maybe my gun has loose chambers, but the shells easily drop into either barrel with no resistance at all. I'm very pleased with them, enough that I bought out all of the Winchester VP from my local WMs just before the price increase.

EDITED TO ADD:
I just took 5 rds of AA and dropped them into my MEC Go/NOGO gauge, all of the AA dropped in cleanly. Tried the same with 5 rds of Win value pack; 3 dropped cleanly, one hung up momentarily, one required a moderate push to go all the way. In each case, the plastic hull was normal diameter, the "problems" were with the front edge of the metal head. So there may be issues here; the Value Pack were close enough that I'd suspect the leading edge of the metal head was catching on something or the gun has an absolute minimum spec chamber and/or a little dirty, if you have problems. Of course, other lots of ammo may be better or worse; that's true for any ammo.

[ArmedBear]

Try STS vs. AA. You might be surprised at the results.

[ArchAngelCD]

C'mon guys, cut me some slack. When I said they bulk pack ammo was the same as the small box ammo I wasn't talking about the more expensive Winchester AA, Supreme or Super X shells, I was talking about their "Target" grade ammo. You must have known I wasn't trying to compare bulk pack ammo to ammo that costs much more. Really now, you must have know that.... :banghead:

[GlowinPontiac]

ive shot close to a thousand of these and only had about 2 fail to fires.

not bad shells at all.

[TheLaxPlayer]

I've only seen the bulk packs at one store around here, and for some reason they want $30 for 100 rounds that way, but AA's are $6 a box... needless to say, I've never bought the bulk packs. Saving money is way too expensive for me... :rolleyes::confused:

[CitoriXT]

The Winchester Value Pack shells aren't bad, but I've avoided these harsh recoiling 1-1/8 oz. shells in favor of the 1 oz. Remington and Winchester Game Loads that Wally sells for $4.14 and $3.98 a box respectively. Hits the trap singles targets fine, and the reduced recoil is less likely to cause me to flinch if I'm shooting a lot of rounds in an afternoon

[ArmedBear]

I wasn't trying to compare bulk pack ammo to ammo that costs much more. Really now, you must have know that....

I knew that.

I still think you ought to compare AA to STS. I know one person who did a scientific comparison (measured 100 shot pellets of each with a micrometer), and the STS was much more consistent shot for the same price. I reload with STS Magnum shot, and the stuff is amazingly round, hard, and consistent. Don't drop any on a hard floor; it rolls and bounces like ball bearings.

I like Winchester's primers, though.

Citori, get a Limbsaver. You'll be glad you did. Put one on my Browning trap gun and, while I, too, tend to favor the lightest load that will work for an application, my shoulder can't tell the difference between my (handloaded) 1 oz. @ 1150 singles shells and my 1 1/8 oz. @ 1225 handicap loads.

[boilingleadbath]

I've preformed a similar study of the shot sizes in one of those winchester universal loads. (measured all the pellets with a micrometer)

Just about all the pellets in a load of 7.5 shot where between 2.35 and 2.58 mm.

There where 361 normal pellets, plus one "double pellet".

I can show the graph of the distribution if anyone is interested.

[ArchAngelCD]

ArmedBear,
I've been shooting Remington STS Light Target shells for a few months now. I think they are a little more consistent than the Winchester AA Light loads but I buy the ones that are on sale. I agree with you the STS shells are very good shotshells.

[MCgunner]

The lighter loads of the bulk pack stuff don't have enough pop to reliably cycle the action on my Winchester 1400. Step up to 1 ounce super speeds and it does okay, just an occasional rare hang up. It doesn't eject 'em far, which is good when you're trying to police your brass to keep the cows from eating it. Those 7/8 ounce bulk pack loads, though, just too many hangs on ejection. The gun needs good, stiff field loads to function well and other than price of ammo, there's really no reason not to use a 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 ounce load since the gun is so soft on the shoulder even with high brass stuff.

[CitoriXT]

ArmedBear;

I have a Trapdude Gooey pad on it now, I had a Kick-eez universal on it before. I was making the point that if I shoot a heavier load than I need for singles, I run the risk of flinching after about 4 rounds in a session. I just like the fact that I can get those 1 oz. Rem Game Loads any time I need them, and they work fine for 16 yd. shooting. For Caps, I kind of prefer the Fed Top Gun / Estates 1-1/8 oz loads over the 1-1/8 oz Rem Gun Club or the Winchester Super-Targets, although I shoot 'em all.

[ArmedBear]

Ah.

When you said "flinch" I figured you were using the factory "recoil pad."

[the naked prophet]

Why would you buy them? The Federal bulk pack is about a dollar cheaper (same size pack at Wal-Mart, blue box), and I've never had a problem with them.

[CitoriXT]

"The Federal bulk pack is about a dollar cheaper (same size pack at Wal-Mart, blue box), and I've never had a problem with them."

I always liked Federal / Estates shells, and I agree that the Wally Federal Value Pack shells are just as good as Wally's Winchester or Remington Value Packs, and the Federals are a little cheaper than the Winchester Value Packs and a LOT cheaper than the Remington Value Packs; these are close to 20 bucks, and are just repackaged Gun Clubs - can't figure this marketing strategy out!.

But I really think those 1 oz. Rem Game Loads in 7-1/2 or 8 , at $4.14/box are the best "bang" (no pun intended) for the buck.

[ArmedBear]

Yeah, some people don't like Estate shells. I've never had any reason to dislike them, at the range or in the field. I like them, and Federal game and bulk loads.

If I'm going to toss the hulls, Federals and Estates are my choice. Remingtons if I'm in a picky mood; I think they're great shells all around, though I don't need to pay more for superior hulls, when they're going in the trash. Winchester's field loads are more expensive here than the Federals/Estates, and I can't see any advantage to getting the Winchesters.

The thing about Remington Sport Loads, though, is that they're highly reloadable. I turn them into STS-quality shells and they work GREAT for trapshooting. And when they're burned up I can get as many as I can carry, for free, since people throw them out.:)

[jlpskydive]

Shot tons of them out of my SX2 and my 870, not one problem.

[Robert Hairless]

The trouble with them in our experience is that the problems are intermittent and unpredictable. They work all right for many shots, and then one doesn't. The one after that might or might not work okay. But those are the only shells with which we've had problems.

[jd852000]

Yesterday my cousin and I were doing some trap shooting and i had a bulk box of the winchester universals and i dont think i went through one magazine load without it jamming, i have an Ithaca 37 and have shot it plenty of times with issue, my uncle also has a problem with these shells in his H&R topper, but my Cousins Mossberg had no trouble with them at all so im not sure what the issue is. i know i will not be buying these shells again.

[Lord Palmerston]

I used to buy Federal and Remington 100 loads value packs at Wal Mart. Last year the price was good, $20.97. This year the price went up by 10% to $22.97. No big deal though. One day I saw Winchester value packs on display at the same price and I decided to try them, since the brand is well known and reliable. What a mistake! The shotshells were crap, absolute crap. Three or four misfires but above all, lack of performance and erratic pattern. Never again.

[oneounceload]

IME, I have found both the Universals and the Super Speeds from Winchester to beat the hell out of me, burn is incomplete and dirty, patterns suck (in MY gun), and they aren't reloadable. For about the same price, i can buy Kemens and throw them away, or get Gun Clubs and have reloadable hulls

This is a no-brainer

[rbernie]

Guys - this thread is almost four years old. If we really need to talk about the Win crap fodder some more, let's at least do it in a new thread. :)