Let's Hear It For the Autos That Require Little To No Mods Out of the Box For You


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Ian11
July 9, 2003, 04:23 PM
Most handguns from reputable manufacturers really don't require any mods for it to work to satisfactorily. Although, aftermarket parts and mods is a "hidden cost" that one has to factor in with certain guns for certain people. For instance, with a Colt M1911A1 or Browning HP I always "have to" get a trigger job, a new extractor or ejector, different safety, and maybe new grips. Not absolutely necessary but I feel more comfortable doing it. Even with Glocks I always have to get new sights for them. I can't stand the factory Glock sights. But there are certain guns where I know I won't have to factor in those "hidden costs" when I buy one. Just lots of ammo and magazines.

For instance, I never felt the need for a trigger job, different sights, springs, parts, etc. etc. on SIG Sauer Classic P series guns and Beretta 92FS's. None.

So, which ones (for you) is this esp. true?


*Although, if I know I'll be relying on a particular pistol as my primary defense pistol I "have to" put nightsights on them.

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Bowlcut
July 9, 2003, 04:26 PM
so far ive been happy with my sw99...despite its trigger feeling a touch heavier than sheslinger's p99. ive been decently accurate with it. love its trigger, im the only one i think, and the handle feels as if it were molded to my hand

Skunkabilly
July 9, 2003, 04:30 PM
P7M8, Beretta 92G Elite II.

After that it's personal preference (sights, trigger, carbon fiber)

cslinger
July 9, 2003, 04:30 PM
If it says SIG what more could you ask for.:D

Actually I would have to say.
SIG
Glock
Ruger
Beretta
Smith......unless you yank that stupid magazine disconnect out but I digress.
CZ
HK Pseries


Now I am not saying that you might not want to add goodies but in my experience all of the above have been stellar out of the box with the big nod going to my SIGs and P7.

Double Maduro
July 9, 2003, 04:36 PM
Ruger MkII No changes--in==one of the best triggers I have ever felt on anything.
Ruger 22/45 No changes
Ruger P90 Hogue grips
Makarov Cleaned the cosmoline off it.

I have been thinking about a red dot for the 22/45

DM

Big Mike
July 9, 2003, 04:37 PM
Beretta 92 Brig.
Glock 26.

Mike

davidtdm
July 9, 2003, 04:37 PM
Kimber Pro Cary HD *
Ruger P95

...Dave

*Although I'm a lefty I may at some point want to put an ambi safety on it.

Bobarino
July 9, 2003, 04:39 PM
H&K USP. why mess with perfection? i did polish my feed ramp but really out of boredom, not necessity. i just like to tinker.

Bobby

10-Ring
July 9, 2003, 04:41 PM
So far, my 2 Italian Berettas and my 6 HK pistols have required no mods ;)

Boats
July 9, 2003, 04:46 PM
I will be a little defiant here. My latest 1911, a Loaded Springfield Champion 1911 did not "need" anything. I chose to refinish it. I chose to ditch the FLGR, I chose to get Laser Grips. I chose to buy a new extractor and mag button. It came with an ambi-safety, Novak night sights, a high grip beaver tail and adequate grips and functioning, including the trigger despite the horror stories I have heard about SA's ILS system. All I have been doing is customizing it.

While we are at "hidden costs" discuss the following about your own favorites here:

1) Do you have to acquire "banned" full-cap mags for it? This issue alone prevents me from seriously looking at the Glock 20 until winter 2004.

2) Do you prefer night sights on your SD weapon? Not too many come with them standard.

3) Do you need an extension to get your entire hand on it?

4) Do you need to change a spring or a part to make the trigger acceptable?

dsk
July 9, 2003, 05:08 PM
IMO Berettas "need" replacement of the original mag springs with Wolff Xtra power ones (on pre-ban mags). I also replaced the mainspring in mine to in order to help the DA pull.

HK's and SIG's also "need" a trigger job, but it isn't easy to do.

A nit-picky owner could find a reason to "improve" just about any auto out of the box, as long as he/she can get the parts for it.

9x19
July 9, 2003, 05:09 PM
Glock and Ruger have been the most consistent performers for me.

Kel-Tecs I own do not need any mods, but I'm aware that some do respond to the "KTOG fluff and buff".

CZF
July 9, 2003, 05:46 PM
CZ75B/BD. Performs as a police gun from Turkey to Brazil.

Runs right out the box. Just feed it good ammo and it will work
like a gem.

Old Fuff
July 9, 2003, 05:57 PM
Well there's my S&W 1905 Hand Ejector/Military & Police model. Never polished the feed ramp, doesn't have a grip safety, trigger job wasn't necessary, has the same sights it came with - haven't spent a dime on gadgets, but it works fine.

Some people are no fun at all .....

George Hill
July 9, 2003, 05:59 PM
Wait a sec... this is a back handed slap at 1911's.
Most every new 1911 out there NIB doesn't NEED anything done to them.

However, it's isn't always about NEED is it? It's about want. If it was about NEED, everyone would be packing around standard issue .38 revolvers.

Luckily it's about WANT.

I WANT custom grips. I WANT a super slick trigger.
This is why I am not a fan of Glocks... there are no custom wood grips for them.

txgolfer45
July 9, 2003, 06:03 PM
Glocks - 19, 26, 23. Work great right out of the box.

Scott

Sisco
July 9, 2003, 06:52 PM
No changes? You're kiddin', right? I always gotta change something if it needs it or not! :D

Jiml3
July 9, 2003, 06:53 PM
Sig P229
S&W 6906
CZ75 PCR

All run like you would want right out of the box. I haven't had a need to spend money on any improvements.

CWL
July 9, 2003, 06:59 PM
I have yet to purchase a pistol where I knew beforehand that I needed aftermarket smithing. I suppose I am still a novice with only 19 years of handgun ownership.

Guns either work or they don't. Complaints about handguns usually fall into the "return for warranty repairs" category.

'Mods' are things that you do to your gun that you don't have to.

Lone_Gunman
July 9, 2003, 07:15 PM
The reason why a lot of people modify a 1911 is because they can.


Its a good thing most Sig and Beretta owners don't want to modify their guns too much, because they would have a hard time finding anything with which to modify them.

Agree this is a back door 1911 attack.

Hkmp5sd
July 9, 2003, 07:39 PM
1st generation Glock 17. Over 15 years as my CCW and the only non-original component is a Hogue HandAll grip sleeve.

agtman
July 9, 2003, 08:45 PM
S&W 10XX-series & 45XX-series pistols.

Dobe
July 9, 2003, 10:06 PM
Wait a sec... this is a back handed slap at 1911's.
I agree, George. My four Kimbers did not n-e-e-d a thing. They all shot fine and functioned well.

firestar
July 9, 2003, 10:38 PM
Beretta 92fs.

I like to tinker and buy thing for my guns but only if they improve them somehow. I have not found anything that I could improve on my Beretta 92fs. It has night sights, the smoothest DA trigger I have ever felt on an auto, is 100% reliable, etc. It came with two sets of grips, one standard black plastic and one rubber set. I took off the rubber set and put back on the standard grips and I love it.

cool45auto
July 9, 2003, 10:42 PM
Beretta 92fs.
Ditto.:cool:

Ian11
July 9, 2003, 10:43 PM
Please. This was not meant as a backhanded slap at 1911's or BHP's. If you read my post again its more about the things I really gotta have (or want) than things I really need with certain guns.


Most Kimbers and SA "Loaded" series are made with many of those custom touches that owners have been doing to their stock 1911's in the past (still do) And they are priced accordingly. If I were to buy a Kimber or SA "Loaded" I probably wouldn't touch a thing on them either. Except maybe add Nightsights if it didn't come as part of the package already. And maybe a new "bulletproof" extractor just for piece of mind, which costs very little to do.

But if I buy a 1911 it has to be a Colt. Nothing but a Colt 1911 will do for me. I'd rather take a lightly modded Colt than a Les Baer or even an Ed Brown. So when I buy a Colt 1911, I need (or want) that wider beavertail flush with the frame, better sights (Novaks would be great but expensive), a nice trigger job, and maybe new grips at a minimum. So when a I buy a NRM M1991A1 I have to factor in those eventualities when I buy it. I used to own a Colt Gov't Model Series 80, Gold Cup Nat'l Match, and an M1991A1. They all shot great and they were all rock solid realiable out of the box. So why would I have a grudge against the Colt 1911? Which are even more stock than others.


1911 devotees have such thin skin.:rolleyes: :neener:

P95Carry
July 9, 2003, 11:03 PM
So much I think depends on what you and I expect from a NIB ...... arguably, almost any piece can be ''sweetened'' ... if you have the time and sometimes the $$$$'s too!

For me, nothing much I have bought actually ''needed'' work .... my P97 and P95 are well adequate ..... my 22/45 is pretty acceptable ...... and my FEG is damn near as sweet as the original HP I used to have. Even my cheapo HP-22 was pretty damn good outa the box .. considering it was so cheap!

Unless I have a serious trigger creep prob for instance then i think that all I want is to familiarize and shoot the weapon ... ''get the feel''!:)

dsk
July 9, 2003, 11:41 PM
This is why I am not a fan of Glocks... there are no custom wood grips for them.

Huh? With a Glock you can use any make, model or style of wood grips you want. It only takes four self-tapping screws..... :neener:

4v50 Gary
July 9, 2003, 11:53 PM
Sig P220. I've had Sig Night sites added to it (modern ones are already dovetailed and mine dates back to '87). The only other modification was an internal laser (back-up sight just in case). Same everything else.

Bren
July 10, 2003, 12:07 AM
I guess I'm too picky because nothing out of the box is perfect.

Lot's of people do mods to Berrtta's Sigs, and glocks. "Settling" for something is another story.

Ian11
July 10, 2003, 12:14 AM
I don't feel like I've been "settling" when I leave my SIGs and Glocks the way they are (okay maybe except for nightsights :rolleyes: ) That's one of the many reasons I like SIGs and Glocks. They are "just right" out of the box.

Bren
July 10, 2003, 12:19 AM
Then you're settling. :what:

556A2
July 10, 2003, 01:11 AM
CZ75B/BD. Performs as a police gun from Turkey to Brazil.

Runs right out the box. Just feed it good ammo and it will work
like a gem.

I agree

Ian11
July 10, 2003, 01:16 AM
Settling on what!? :rolleyes:

We can go back and forth about spending heaps of money on aftermarket add-ons and modifications. Will it really make it a better gun? Do all these aftermarket people really know more than Glock or SIG engineers? Or do people make these changes so the handgun fits an individual better? Or out of vanity?


I'll admit it. I'm an average shooter for someone who's been shooting as long as I have. And I don't think I would really benefit that much from one of those super custom guns. Perhaps my groups would get tighter but my shooting isn't just about target shooting.

As for my SIGs and Glocks I've seen all the aftermarket tack-ons, grip modifications, and so on. None of them appeal to me. And I couldn't dream of changing a thing as far as functionality is concerned. If I want a more specialized gun I'd get it. Guns like my SIG P220ST and Glock 23 are combat/defense guns and reliability is premium over anything else. I'm not gonna mess with it if I don't have to. I get handguns for self defense and they must be reliable. Its because I've refused to "settle" for anything less that I chose SIG and Glock. The less I or anyone else has to tinker with it esp. when they haven't let me down, the better.


Your priorities might be different.

George Hill
July 10, 2003, 01:21 AM
:uhoh:
Yeah... I have a 92FS too.
:D

Bren
July 10, 2003, 01:33 AM
No Ian11, "settling" is not about parts. It's being happy with what you get whether it's a mushy or creapy trigger or a long pull or plastic sights and so on.

Alot of people say you NEED to spend more on a 1911 or BHP or other make after you buy it but thats not necessarily true, yet they are happy with a creapy trigger on another model which is a double standard IMO.

Ian11
July 10, 2003, 01:38 AM
I think we've covered this before. This thread is not about "need" but about "want" And I've never "wanted" to change a thing about my SIGs and Glocks. And thats exactly why I'm so happy with them when I take them out of the box. And yes, I like their triggers. :what:

And again, I'm not saying one has to or needs to make mods when one acquires a new 1911 or BHP. A 1911 is more of a target/range gun for me and that is why I usually try to get a better trigger on them. But, I still don't shoot 1911's any better than my P220ST or a Glock 21. :banghead:

Please read more carefully. Thanks.

Bren
July 10, 2003, 01:58 AM
Oh, I "read" you oh so well. :p

Ian11
July 10, 2003, 02:11 AM
Let me guess. 1911 true believer or something of that ilk?

dsk
July 10, 2003, 02:43 AM
Alot of people say you NEED to spend more on a 1911 or BHP or other make after you buy it but thats not necessarily true, yet they are happy with a creapy trigger on another model which is a double standard IMO.

There's some truth to that. I've noticed some of the same folks complaining about the "heavy" 5-6lb pull on their 1911 have no complaints about the heavy, gritty DA trigger on their SIG.

I think it's the "be like Mike" syndrome. We see all these beautiful, absolutely PERFECT 1911s in the pages of American Handgunner and want our pistol to be the same way. We even expect it with out-of-the-box production guns, and get irritable when we find the slide/frame fit is a little too loose, the trigger just a little too gritty, or the wood grips just flat out aren't exotic enough.

Each time I've bought a new Glock I've done things to it, things I felt it needed. I hate the factory sights, I don't like the plastic guide rod, and I mistrust the big hole at the bottom of the frame. As a result I've always bought steel sights, a titanium guide rod, and a grip plug for each Glock I've purchased before even firing it. That doesn't mean the gun was sub-par out of the box. I just don't like certain features.

Bren
July 10, 2003, 02:59 AM
No Ian, it would be boring to be stuck on 1 or 2 or 10 styles of guns but the 1911 is one of my favorites and my cheapo Norinco 1911 is more reliable (100%) than my G-19 was but my G-26 was a goody so can I trust ALL Glocks because of the hype? I've had a Sig 220 gag on my favorite semi wadcutters while the $300 Norinco gobbles them up,, should I trust ALL Sigs? both had a less the stellar trigger out of the box but one could "settle" for them.

Can you read me now?,,,,,,,,,, can you read me now?


Can you read me now? :p

Ian11
July 10, 2003, 03:22 AM
Yes, I understand your points. Even the one about the double standard regarding the triggers of 1911's vs. modern European guns. And I agree with you on that to some degree. But those points get lost when the maturity level of the posts go down.

Everyone's experiences are different. How smooth a trigger feels or how cleanly it breaks has not translated into better shooters for me compared to an out of the box SIG. The trigger on my Glock 21 feels mushy but my groups weren't that different compared to my Colt 1911 with a $100 trigger job from King's. You've had better luck with a $300 Norinco than a $700 SIG and I won't dispute that. (The Norinco's were great values.) You are more than welcome to express that opinion. Because these threads after all is about EVERYONE'S experiences and perceptions.


Thank you for your time.:uhoh:

goalie
July 10, 2003, 03:50 AM
I have a G17 with about 20,000 rounds through it. Zero malfunctions. Ever. I just picked up a G26 to carry now that Minnesota passed "shall-issue" finally. I took the G26 straight from my dealer to the range and shot 400 rounds of white box winchester and 200 rounds of my carry hollowpoint load. Zero malfunctions. If I had to pick a handgun to take to a certain gunfight (yeah, yeah, I would WANT a rifle, shotgun, and my old fire team from when I was in the Corps, but bear with me) straight out of the box, brand new, no cleaning, no nothing, then I would take a Glock 9mm. I have had my weapon malfunction in a fire fight before, and I don't want it to happen again. Well, I don't ever want to be shot at again, but that is kinda irrelevant. That said, I like my 1911's as much as the next guy, but I would never in a million years take an unfired, uncleaned, unlubed, brand new, straight out of the box 1911 to a gunfight if I had the choice of an unfired, uncleaned, unlubed, brand new, straight out of the box G17, G19, or G26. They may be ugly. They may be plastic. The trigger might feel like mush. But they WILL go bang. Maybe even KaBoom, but I said 9mm, not .40 hehe :neener:

Ala Dan
July 10, 2003, 05:31 AM
Greeting's Ian11-

The one handgun that I felt never needed any
additions would be SIG-Sauer's "Classic P-series"
self-loader's; and I've owned these four at one
time or the other: P220, P226, P228, and P229.
They suit my needs straight from the factory box!

Best Wishes,
ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Razor 10
July 10, 2003, 09:55 AM
I will have to say best out of box would be my HK usp compact. This gun has eaten every thing I can throw at it, with no mods other than a polishing of the feed ramp. I only own one 1911 and I had several problems with it out of the box. The make is a Dan Wesson Razorback 10mm. Problems went like this first it wouldn't feed anything the barrel overhung the frame feed ramp, it destroyed ejected brass by way of smashing the case mouth up against the slide, the front and rear sights fell off (minor though) and the extractor would not even come close to holding the case in place.



Upon sending and recieving my gun back from DW I had a factory hornady round KABOOM and it still crumpled brass. So the gun goes back again. This time I had a Briley ramped barrel installed and the ejector was shortened to almost nothing. The gun runs great now but it should have run great to start with, considering how much I paid for it.




By the way this is by no means ment to rip on Dan Wesson, they have the best service I have ever delt with. Bob and Phil were very helpfull and quite promt in repair time. I will eventually buy another DW just need to save up.



Nick:)

Ky Larry
July 10, 2003, 10:35 AM
Out of the box shooters:

CZ 75B .40 S&W
CZ 75BD 9mm
S&W Model 29 .44 Mag (I did install Hogue grips to help with recoil)
Colt Det. Sp. .38 Spl.
Ruger Mk II .22 LR 6 inch bull barrel
T/C Contender .223 14inch bull barrel (Super Sweeeet)
Beretta Model 25 .22 LR
Kimber Custom II .45 ACP
Not so hot OOTB shooters:

CZ PCR 9 mm. Trigger feels rougher than my other CZ's. It may shoot in.
Ruger P89 9mm. Rough trigger but it steadily got better with use.

lee n. field
July 10, 2003, 10:52 AM
I've done something to every handgun I've bought (and kept) so far. Usually aftermarket grips. The only thing I haven't had to buy anything for has been the CZ-100, and I'm busy polishing this and that to smooth up the trigger.

Mike Irwin
July 10, 2003, 11:14 AM
So far, no mods to any of these guns, other than new grips.

Kahr K9

Springfield Milspec 1911-A1

Browning High Power

Browning Buckmark

EAA Witness 10mm

axeman_g
July 10, 2003, 11:17 AM
FN BHP with SFS.

Trigger smoothing after 600 rounds. Accurate and carry friendly.

Begining to really love it.

Sean Smith
July 10, 2003, 11:20 AM
Let's look at a stock Colt 01991 I had...

Better trigger than either a Glock or a SigSauer or Beretta. Better accuracy. Equivalent sights. Same reliability. Better ergonomics.

Yet if I decide to make it even better, that is somehow taken as an admission by some that it is inferior to those guns, when it was already on par with them when stock. If I take my trigger from 6 to 4 pounds, it proves the gun is lacking "as-is" compared to your gun with a... 12 pound DA trigger that has a pull 3 times as long? Bizarre!

Why do people customize their 1911? Why do bears crap in the woods? Because they can. :D

I don't leave guns stock. I want what I want, not what somebody else thinks I ought to have. That doesn't mean I spend huge piles of money, it just means that I don't leave things "as is" if there is a reasonable way to make it better. Doesn't matter to me if it is a $350 CZ-75B or a $800 Delta Elite that winds up getting another $800 of goodies. :)

New_comer
July 10, 2003, 07:39 PM
My USP9 has been stock....


No issues whatsoever. ;)

Byron
July 10, 2003, 07:43 PM
Browning BDA 380

DMK
July 10, 2003, 10:07 PM
CZ-75B, never did a thing to it except change the grips for cosmetic reasons. I ordered it with CZ's walnut grips.

CZ-40B never did a thing to it except change the grips for cosmetic reasons. I bought a set of aftermarket rosewood grips a couple weeks after I bought it. I am considering night sights for it though.

Prodigalshooter
July 10, 2003, 10:31 PM
NONE of my pistols required work, they all worked great outa the box, some I added grips to or changed sights because, well, because I like to personalize my stuff!
But none of them "needed" anything and all shot well right away.

My list includes;
Sig 239 9mm
Springfield Loaded (full size) 45ACP
" Champion 45ACP
CZ 75B 9mm
CZ 97B 45ACP
22/45 .22
even my FEG PA-63
:eek:
Not going to list my revolvers, but they were all a-ok too.

HBK
July 10, 2003, 10:44 PM
Walther P-99.

Byron Quick
July 10, 2003, 10:47 PM
I've had six 1911's in .38 Super Auto and .45. And an Officer's Model. None needed work.

:D

BHPshooter
July 11, 2003, 01:33 AM
My BHP is perfect for me... otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. :D

The trigger is smooth, and light enough for me. I love the grips, I love the sights... It was practically made for me.

Wes

denfoote
July 11, 2003, 08:43 AM
No mods to the following:

Ruger P95
Ruger P97
Walther P99
Walther P95
Walther PPK/S

In fact, only my Glocks have been modified. The first thing I do is strip off the crappy stock sights and put on Trilicons. The next thing is the "minus" connector and reduced power trigger spring, because the stock trigger is to heavy for me!! (maybe it's because I am used to that nice, light 3.5lb pull)

Tamara
July 11, 2003, 09:49 AM
Semiautos I have owned lately that I haven't performed any modifications on:

Beretta 96D, Glock 30, SIG P-228 & P-232, Browning BDM. A few others.

Why modify guns like this? It'd feel like buying mag wheels and a K&N intake kit for a beige Ford Taurus or Toyota Camry. :scrutiny:

MCNETT
July 11, 2003, 05:52 PM
My Glocks, and beretta 92fs, and HK USP45 are ready to go from the box!
-Mike

litework
July 11, 2003, 06:08 PM
Most of the guns I have owned required no modifications and functioned fine right out of the box. I had a Desert Eagle and a Star Megastar that weren't exceptional. Both guns are gone from my collection. I have a Colt Officer's Model that required some modifications before I was satisfied with it. Some outstanding guns I own that have been trouble free include a Beretta 92FS, a Glock 23, Makarovs, a Colt Government Enhanced, and most recently, a Glock 20 and a Springfield XD357.

Rob96
July 11, 2003, 08:06 PM
No mods needed- Colt 1991A1 ( like it just the way it is), Glock 19 (did just break the extractor claw) so thats a replacement part.

OneShot
July 11, 2003, 10:09 PM
Springfield XD, No mods required....3500 rounds with no misfires or FTF's. Nuff said--Oneshot

frettedfive
July 11, 2003, 10:40 PM
Ian11, I'm with you man... With the exception of night sights, I can't imagine anyone wanting anything more from a Glock than what it can provide right out of the box.

Mickey

rage
July 11, 2003, 10:51 PM
Glock 30 came with mepros out of the box.:cool:

Boats
July 11, 2003, 11:03 PM
Ian11, I'm with you man... With the exception of night sights, I can't imagine anyone wanting anything more from a Glock than what it can provide right out of the box.



If I ever get serious about getting a Glock 20 I am going to want full-cap mags, replacement sights, even if they are Mepros, and a Ghost Rocket to make the trigger acceptable.


Which just goes to show the same phenomenon that "afflicts" the 1911 has heavily infected the Glock community as my mods would be common and modest compared to many that can be done to the drastic plastic.

Sean Smith
July 11, 2003, 11:42 PM
24 pound recoil springs, steel recoil guide rods, and 6" KKM barrels are what all the 10mm hot rodders with Glock 20s are using... :D

Boats
July 12, 2003, 03:32 AM
Tungsten for me my man!

Sean--thanks for tipping me off that I am really borderline into wanting/buying yet different brands of modification money pits that work out of the box.:uhoh:

Dr.Rob
July 12, 2003, 04:15 AM
FEG Hi-power

And a BHP/Clone "trigger job" involves REMOVING existing parts.

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