Surprises when asking for Character References...


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Stover954rr
September 24, 2007, 10:33 PM
Hey Guys and Girls,
I have finally gotten around to putting my hand gun application in for NY. For those of you who don't know (not many I am sure), in NY you need 4 character references that will be checked as part of the application process. As I went about to do this, I was absolutely SHOCKED by the reaction I was getting.

I am talking about people I have know my whole life turning me down, simply because they do not believe in the ownership of hand guns. I have received a number of responses such as "Russell, if I thought that anyone could be trusted/responsible with a hand gun it would be you, unfortunately I do not believe in them and thus can not justify supporting anyone with owning one." or the very popular, "what do you need one of them for?"

My general take on this is that people don't understand what a character reference is. I had one of my good friends say yes, and then call me back 10 minutes later because his wife told him not to get involved because "who knows what legalities there are if something went wrong in the future"!

As mentioned earlier what got me the most was WHO was saying these things, my best friend almost denied me. This is one of the craziest people I know, he owns an arsenal of weapons and builds his own explosives! Yet he doesn't believe in handguns!

I can't understand why everyone views handguns as such a threat!

I should also mention that I consider myself a pretty respectable person who has no criminal record and doesn't get into trouble. I have a masters degree and am a productive member of society. To the best of my knowledge these reactions are not based on my personal character.

I was wondering if anyone else had faced similar situations when seeking references.

Thanks!

Russell

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The Bushmaster
September 24, 2007, 11:04 PM
Hey Russell...Change your vote from Ron Paul to one of the other candidates and I'll vouch for you...

Don't have that problem here in Missouri...

Looks like you need to go to a gun range and make new (real) friends. That's the best suggestion I can give you besides changing your laws...Which are unconstitutional to begin with...

Thefabulousfink
September 25, 2007, 01:57 AM
Wow Russell, I am terribly sorry that those are the type of friends you have. It's your life and they are your friends, but if it were me, I'd remember this and move their names from the "friends" list to the "known acquaintances" list. True friend support each other when they need it. Explain to your friends (if you haven't already) that this is important to you and ask them if their concern over handguns is enough to deny your friendship?

I am pretty strongly against the idea of giving away all your stuff and living as a beggar, but if a friend of mine decided that was what he wanted to do (and I couldn't talk him out of it) then I would support them.

You don't have to agree with some one's decision to be a good friend and support them in it.

Prince Yamato
September 25, 2007, 02:01 AM
Make "friends" at a gun range. They'll vouch for you. It's basically like European gun laws. Belong to a "gun club" and you can own what you want. IE, meet 4 people at the gun range, turn them into your buddies, viola, 4 references.


I had one of my good friends say yes, and then call me back 10 minutes later because his wife told him not to get involved because "who knows what legalities there are if something went wrong in the future"!

And that's another reason for the references; NYS knows that eventually people will say, "no" for that reason- paranoia.

fast200
September 25, 2007, 02:25 AM
Personally, I wouldn't vouch for you either if you support Ron Paul. That guy is a fruit cake. ;)

Stover954rr
September 25, 2007, 08:57 AM
Hey guys,
Yeah, I tried not to take it personally at first, but how could you not! I did get the four references and eventually my 3 closest friends agreed to it. (the forth was a long time friend of mine and ex-boss who really taught me a lot about firearms and shooting)

The issue I have, is that I don't really belong to a gun club. My girlfriend owns a ton of land (I pretty much have a 1,000 yard range) way upstate. I had a ton of people who I shoot and hunt with there who would easily vouch for me. The issue is that with NY your references need to live in your county! And I am still a resident down here :(


As for Ron Paul.... I am making the thread in general discussion now ;)

AirForceShooter
September 25, 2007, 09:23 AM
You're surprised?
I'm not. This is the one requirement that I knew I couldn't fulfill when I lived in NY. They're all trained from birth to be sheep.

AFS

StrikeEagle
September 25, 2007, 10:03 AM
I am pretty strongly against the idea of giving away all your stuff and living as a beggar, but if a friend of mine decided that was what he wanted to do (and I couldn't talk him out of it) then I would support them.

You don't have to agree with some one's decision to be a good friend and support them in it.


Well... I don't know about this. I wouldn't support a friend in something that I strongly felt to be destructive to him. I would NEVER support a friend in a suicide, for example... because I AM a friend.

This is the kind of thing that these misguided liberal friends may be wrestling with. Perhaps they love you and care deeply, but feel 'certain' that owning a handgun is serious trouble.

My own Mother felt this way... she actually shed tears when I bought my first handgun at age 22. "If you have a gun, you're just LOOKING for trouble!"

Sigh.

These folks are as wrong as it's possible to be... but I don't doubt for a moment their affection or friendship. I'm just suggesting you look at their side of this...

Now, the deeper question arises... does it make sense to be close friends with folks who disagree with you so deeply on things that you and I consider to be fundamental rights? I didn't choose my Mother, but I sure do choose my friends.

Just some thoughts for your consideration.

Master Blaster
September 25, 2007, 10:50 AM
The problem is that they don't trust themselves to own a handgun.

Therefore, its not possible for them to trust you.

mcooper
September 26, 2007, 08:08 PM
Does the person have to be from NY?
Does the person really have to know you in person?

I bet 4 THRer's would vouch for ya.

earplug
September 26, 2007, 11:49 PM
Pm me and I will vouch for you.
Its not the goverment we love. Its the citizens.

armoredman
September 27, 2007, 12:29 AM
References? We don' need no steeeking references!

Arcli9ht
September 27, 2007, 12:39 AM
The references have to have known you for 5 years, and must live in the county of issue.

I know this because I got permission from the sheriff to have people from my old county vouch for me since I had just moved up here.

Only one person turned me down, and that was because his wife yelled at him about it, so he gave me the line "i couldnt live with myself if something bad happened because i signed it."

I got two veterans, the head of the local boy scouts and the liason between the civic association and the NYPD to all give me references. (read as good citizens)

11 days later I had my unrestricted permit. My girlfriend finally turned 21, so hers is in processing now.

ArchAngelCD
September 27, 2007, 03:15 AM
Stover954rr,
It's a NY thing and other bastions of Liberalism, I'm not surprised at all. I lived in NY City for the first 48 years of my life and was finally able to get out 3 years ago. They are all brainwashed into thinking the Police can protect them and nobody else has a reason to own or carry a firearm. Of course they are dead wrong, just ask the students, teachers and parents of the children killed in VA Tech. Are you really surprised? I don't think you're surprised, I think you are upset but not surprised.

Zundfolge
September 27, 2007, 10:22 AM
I'm glad I've never lived anyplace where I had to get references to buy a gun ... if I got the kind of responses you got from so-called friends (and family?) each of those people would be told to never speak to me again. Period. Even if one was my mother.

But I'm an a-hole :p

paul105
September 27, 2007, 01:05 PM
I live in Montana. You have to provide three character references on your CWP application. I asked three women from work (the only three I asked) and all three, without hesitation, said yes. In fact one of them expressed interest in getting a permit of her own.

FWIW,

Paul

GaryM
September 27, 2007, 01:38 PM
Years back when they were discussing character references for CCW permits here in missouri the local gunshop had decided that if it went that way they would simply put a bulletin board where you could pin up your application and anyone who wanted coudl sign it.
Tahnk god it didn't go that way but if it had mine would have been up there.

SSN Vet
September 27, 2007, 01:53 PM
Man alive!! Big blue cities that drag the rest of their state in to the big blue collumn are closer to Mars than the soul of the America I fell in love with and once served to defend.

Whatever happened to the TOLERANCE thing that the libs are always spouting off about. They're the most blatantly intolerant sad excuses for human beings imaginable.

Sorry to say it, but you need a new place to live and some new friends.

In fact....I think you just found out who is and is not your friend.

You asked them to vouch for your character, not to endorse you politics.

I'd take it personally.

and...

I'd make a careful mental note of who I could trust and count on in the future.

Not to rub it in....but rather to demonstrate that what you experienced is not the way it has to be....I yelled over the cubicle wall at work and got two references, and then walked 10 yds down the hall to our personal managers office and got my third.

My pastor is an avid hunter and sportsman and after hearing that I got my permit from another brother at the range, he teased me that I had been made at church and that all the ladies were talking about it.....but then seriously confided in me the names of 5 men who regularly carry at Sunday services. My name is on the list now as well. Knowing who you can trust and who's capable of covering your back is really, really important.

I'm SOOO happy to live in a corner of the country where people still have brains.

FerFAL
September 27, 2007, 01:56 PM
Hey Russell...seems as if you need better friends.

FerFAL

eric.cartman
September 27, 2007, 02:19 PM
Do you by any chance have a Masters in Computer Science?
Wanna move to FL?

Hawk
September 27, 2007, 03:12 PM
I was wondering if anyone else had faced similar situations when seeking references.

Yup - just wasn't worth it.

Never applied in Clinton, got worn down in Monroe county.
IIRC, Monroe had restrictions on how long you were personally known to someone, whether they could be related, from out of County, yadda yadda.

Would have been just as easy getting Josh Sugarman to sign off on one.

Your observations regarding confusion are accurate. References seem to think that knowledge of your character is only they beginning. They have to also believe handguns are nice, you having one is desirable and that they're liable if you go bugnuts. It's only a character reference, you're not asking them to change their religion fercryinoutloud.

birddog
September 27, 2007, 03:13 PM
You're surprised?
I'm not. This is the one requirement that I knew I couldn't fulfill when I lived in NY. They're all trained from birth to be sheep.

Umm, no we're not. :rolleyes: God, I hate those blanket statements about a state that is 400 miles wide and contains some of the most rural and conservative residents that you could possibly imagine.

Anyway, what I did was to have each of my references BE a Pistol Permit holder. In some cases, I rejected using good friends, instead using acquaintances on the simple fact that anyone holding a NYS Pistol Permit would NOT give me the kind of grief you are experiencing. Good luck. I found the whole permit process fairly painless, if somewhat time-consuming.

dav
September 27, 2007, 07:18 PM
California has the 3 character references requirement. Must be in same county, not related to you, and have known you 5 years.

Since I would be turned down in San Diego anyway, I've never bothered paying the $200 just to be rejected.

So I've never found out if anyone here would give me a hard time about providing references. Although ALL of the guys helping do range cleanups on forest service land each year have offered!

gp911
September 28, 2007, 10:50 AM
The "I just don't believe in them" argument always leaves me scratching my head. I always want to reply with "I can assure you, handguns do exist"...

There is no reasoning with someone whose thought process is illogical and borne out of fear of what they know nothing about.

I'm glad you got your references anyway.


gp911

Gordon Fink
September 28, 2007, 12:59 PM
California has the 3 character references requirement. Must be in same county, not related to you, and have known you 5 years.

This is for carry permits, not purchase permits. If Iím not mistaken, itís also not a lawful requirement but something many permitting agencies add to the application process. Nevertheless, it raises an interesting point.

I havenít applied for a permit yet, but if and when I do, I wonder how difficult it will be for me to get friends or acquaintances to vouch for me when firearms are involved. If I have to go through dozens of people to get the necessary references, wouldnít that defeat the concealed requirement?

~G. Fink

2TransAms
September 28, 2007, 08:23 PM
I have received a number of responses such as "Russell,"...Stover954rr...your name is Russell Stover? Like the chocolate? :neener:

Man,Illinois is strict but we can still buy what we want,when we want(with a waiting period). I can't imagine that I couldn't get four people to sign for me if I had to do that. I know some people who wouldn't because they don't like guns,but all my friends would vouch for me.



Oh wait...I don't have any friends.:( ;)

Mr Kablammo
September 28, 2007, 09:28 PM
I never went so far as to apply since it was clear that the same problem would arise where I once lived, Buffalo. NY. The general economic and political tone on NY means that I now spell Buffalo, New York as A-U-S-T-I-N, T-E-X-A-S. Could you imagine living in the village of Kenmore, NY and having to get four references? It would be an absurd proposition. You'd have to resort to giving tottering retirees a Benjie or two. Maybe you can join the NYSRA or GOAL and find some references from some newer friends. Check the local trap, skeet, and other ranges too. Best of luck, K.

Stover954rr
October 1, 2007, 06:20 PM
Hey guys,
Sorry for the delay in response... I was up north shooting for the weekend ;)

I did get the references after the "surprises".... actually i had references,

however by NYS law they CANNOT be: Judges, LEO, town Justices, related persons, persons of the same households, or any 2 persons of the same family


ARCLi9ht post # 13:

The reference must be over 21 and Know you for 6 months... it might have been 5 years for you because it was out of county, however I am surprised they gave you an exemption on that because you need to be a resident of your new county for atleast 6 months.

ArchAngel post #14:

I believe you are partially right... maybe upset was a better word.


Gary M. Post #17:

That is an excellent idea... I wish that would happen here as a civilized way of by passing strict laws.


EricCartman Post # 20:

Sorry, actually it is a Masters in Supply Chain Management (logistics, procurement, sourcing, ect)


MCOOPER & EarPLUG: Unfortunately the laws wouldn't allow it... However I do appreciate your kind gestures! Luckily I do have my references now :)

crebralfix
October 1, 2007, 10:59 PM
Leave that state. You are not free; the state does not recognize your rights.

Your vote means nothing; neither does your voice. Millions of people have a contrary view about weapons and are not about to change their minds.

51Cards
October 2, 2007, 12:45 AM
Welcome to Guns in NY --- where truth is fiction and fiction is truth. :banghead:

Sorry about your trouble. I actually got all four, even from folks who don't believe. It was a character reference, not a political stand.

Meanwhile, after finally rounding up all of my wife's paperwork --- they changed the application procedure, and we get to start again :cuss::cuss::banghead:.

I mean, after all, it makes perfect sense that her friends in a county 2 miles over a line are disqualified; or the many LEOs that she knows; or friends who have moved out-of-county since the process started; or relatives; or her husband.

:cuss::banghead::cuss::banghead::cuss::banghead::fire:

Sadly, I don't feel any better after venting. Need a new "Smilie" for "PO'd."

TonyB
October 2, 2007, 11:10 AM
1) get new friends
2)tell the other ones to get a pair,and tell his wife to mind her own business(and yes I am married)
3)Don't just up and leave NY,it's not all bad.
what county are you in?

Stover954rr
October 2, 2007, 11:57 AM
51Cards.... oh you don't need to tell me how ridiculous it is. I don't understand why you can't use anyone in any NYS county as a reference considering it is a state license.

TonyB: Yeah I laughed when he called me back because his wife said no... haha I would feel like a complete jackass calling a buddy back and having to explain that....oh wait I wouldn't because my girlfriend doen't give a damn.

I am in dutche$$ county (my key board broke) i have no lmnopqr_tuv lol

mrreynolds
October 2, 2007, 12:17 PM
Interesting I'm from Harlem, NYC & some years ago when I first begin to get interested in firearms my "Mother" told me to apply legally or find another hobby..so I did..apply. Best advice I ever got I love you Mommy!

RustyHammer
October 2, 2007, 01:21 PM
Time to move!

ZeSpectre
October 2, 2007, 01:42 PM
Man you aren't going to like my answer but it's this simple... MOVE

NY is a LOST CAUSE for gun rights and I swear it'll be the last one to restore them. I think California would dump all of their gun laws before NY would.

And don't tell me it's silly to move over such a thing, because I already did it. Not -just- over self defense rights but that sure played a large part in where I chose to move!

welldoya
October 2, 2007, 03:34 PM
So, they want 4 people that they don't know to vouch for one person that they don't know ? Well.......that makes sense.
I would get a new set of friends.

doc2rn
October 2, 2007, 08:11 PM
You are here and that says alot about you. Now to Quote someone really famous keep your friends close but your enemies closer. PM me if you need a voucher.

Stover954rr
October 7, 2007, 08:23 AM
Welldoya: I never thought about it that way lol

Doc2RN: I appreciate the kind gesture!

Regolith
October 8, 2007, 01:27 AM
however by NYS law they CANNOT be: Judges, LEO, town Justices, related persons, persons of the same households, or any 2 persons of the same family


This one confuses the hell out of me. I can kind of (in a twisted sort of way) understand the logic behind not allowing persons who are related to you or live in the same household as you vouche for your character, but you're not allowed to use LEO's or JUDGES? That's just freaking insane...you'd think that (at least in the anti's mind) these would be the two groups that would be MOST qualified to give character references....

I agree with others. Get the heck out of there. Not only do they hate your freedom, they hate logic, even their own....

hnk45acp
October 8, 2007, 12:32 PM
Russell
I live in NYC and understand what you are going thru. You come here asking for advice about your friends not supporting you and ironically people here tell you to move or support someone other than Ron Paul.
My advice is stay in NYC. There are those of us who do fight the good fight and are influencing people around us. Keep looking and you will find people to vouch for you. Meanwhile view this as an opportunity to educate your friends about 2A issues.

langenc
October 8, 2007, 08:13 PM
Get rid of the loosers and the wives. Those kind are no nuts.

Caimlas
October 22, 2007, 01:38 AM
Russell,

Hey, that's NY for you. I'm not a NYer, but I grew up there and my family is still in NY; I was astounded by the general hostility by gun shop owners upstate the last time I visited and went browsing towards people simply handling "NY illegal", cop-only rifles - even if they're well-dressed and clean-cut. The attitude I can understand, at least in NY. This is, after all, a state where handguns are more available and accessible now than they've been in close to 80 years (iirc).

My grandfather is a NY resident, lifelong. He's got his pistol permit, enlisted during Korea, is a lifelong conservationalist and outdoorsman, and shoots regularly. But pistol ownership is still something which scares him, to a degree, due to the legality of the matter; those bureaucrats, reporters and cops in NY really have the citizenry in a fearful tizzy, I tell you.

Hokkmike
October 22, 2007, 06:19 PM
Master Blaster said it right!

Rinspeed
October 23, 2007, 10:06 PM
however by NYS law they CANNOT be: Judges, LEO, town Justices, related persons, persons of the same households, or any 2 persons of the same family




That must be something new because I used a LEO for one of mine.

Luis Leon
October 24, 2007, 01:02 AM
I agree with theFabulousfink, they are not real friends... Good friends support you even when they don't agree with your views.

regards,

Luis Leon

DragonFire
October 24, 2007, 08:51 PM
Because one sherriff in one county requires something it does not make it a "NYS law". Even actual laws that may be on the books are not always strictly enforced.

I guess I must be lucky, because I live in western NY and the only surprises I've had have been because people have been more PRO-GUN that I would have suspected. (like the notary in the town clerk's office who questioned my FL permit application... because she was tired on not being able to CCW out of state when she visited her family in the south).

None of my references were called, and the only restrictions were that they lived in my county and were not related. I was advised by a local gun shop not to include LEOs as references to eliminate any assumptions that I wanted a permit to be a cop-wannabe.

Everyone at the sherriff's office, several town clerk's offices, and even the state police station have always been polite, friendly and helpful (not to mention supportive) of any gun and/or permit dealings I've had.!
One more time: New York City ISN'T New York State.

inkhead
October 24, 2007, 10:38 PM
Wait a second, you put people down as character references without talking to them in advance? I'd turn you down too simply because I would be upset that you didn't feel comfortable enough to talk to me about it...

Talk to your references first so you can clear up any questions they might have.

Hiaboo
October 25, 2007, 02:58 AM
oh my this is pretty bad. I was considering getting my pistol permit (not cwp) here in Monroe County, NY.. If this requirement is true then well, forget it. I'm currently a college student living off campus here even though I've been here for 4+ years.. I recently purchased a permanent residence not too long ago. I suppose I'll have to call the PD and find out. Last time I called, it just sounded like, fill out the app and sit tight. That was last year but who knows what's up now. A couple of years ago, I was able to purchase a couple of rifles from wal mart from all of the places with a MA driver's license down the street here in NY.. Hm. ugh.

gandog56
October 25, 2007, 09:35 AM
Jeezo pete, I thought this was for a CCW application, this is just to GET a handgun? Even the retardoland of Illinois I live in doesn't make you do that.

obxned
October 25, 2007, 09:47 AM
At least now you know who is really a friend and who is not!

stephpd
October 25, 2007, 12:47 PM
I needed 5 here in Delaware. My friends weren't any problem. Good thing I couldn't use my wife. She hates guns. Doesn't want to think about them or the dangers out there. Not sure if she will ever come around. Her mom just got a ccw but that doesn't seem to matter.

As far as the references, Delaware requires 5 but doesn't even contact them. I asked everyone after getting the ccw and not one was contacted.Most of them are guys I work with and none had a problem with me carrying even though none of them own a gun. But with all the crime around the place we work they understand why it might be useful.:cool:

Zoomer
October 26, 2007, 10:47 AM
Sorry to hear about your problems. I too am from NY (Suffolk County LI) and waited 11 months to get my restricted (Sportsman) pistol license. 2 of my 4 references were hesitant to sign my application (They were afraid of future liability and me going "postal" at work!!??). Oh well. A long talk at the pub over a coulple of frosty ones where I stated my case and they signed the form. The police did indeed contact 2 of my four references - including 1 of the reluctant ones. All went well and after an excruciatingly long wait I am the proud owner of twins! A Kimber Gold Match 45ACP and a S&W 629 44 mag both stainless!! I can only CCW while on the way to and from the field or to and from an approved shooting facility under the "sportsman clause" on my permit. If I carry at any other time I get arrested and forefeit my pistols and permit.

On a side note the police contacted my wife (after the 4 references were approved) and told her I was in the process of obtaining a pistol permit. They asked if she had any problems with there being a weapon in the house, her feelings towards my owning a gun, etc., etc. If she wanted to she could have put a kabosh on the whole process. Good thing she likes guns and hunting as I have Blackpowder rifles, numerous shotguns (waterfowl, Skeet, deer) and lots of rifles.

Rinspeed
October 26, 2007, 10:49 AM
Sorry to hear about your problems. I too am from NY (Suffolk County LI) and waited 11 months to get my restricted (Sportsman) pistol license.



Zoomer,

Does your permit say restricted on the front?

Zoomer
October 29, 2007, 07:58 AM
No But under class/type it says "Sportsman".

macadore
October 29, 2007, 10:34 PM
I have former friends from NYC. They became former friends when they found out I owned firearms. They seemed to believe that firearms were living creatures that ran around killing people. Totally irrational, but also totally self righteous.

Gunnerpalace
October 29, 2007, 11:20 PM
Stover954rr sounds to me like it is easier to go to the moon in a cardboard rocket ship than to get a CCW in NY, my advice would be to move or failing that wait to see what Heller says and maybe the laws will reverse.

WVMountainBoy
October 30, 2007, 05:44 AM
Wow...just wow. We don't need the references for CCW here in WV, but most of my friends (other than the LEO's) have their permit. My best friend, whom grew up 5 doors down from me is the only non-owner of a "real" firearm, and even he has a thing for high-powered air rifles.
Now if 4 of my friends had similiar reactions I would be hurt that they refused to say I'm responsible enough for CCW...I'd probably want to evaluate myself and see if there was something wrong with me that my crew felt that way...Now if one of them handed me a line about "you don't need it" I think that friend would need to spend some time listening to my radio and phone calls at work. Thank goodness West Virginians haven't put so much faith in the gov. to be so sheepish and so codependent on protection

wqbang
November 2, 2007, 03:39 PM
I find it hard to find 4 people here that don't have a handgun. :)

Shawnee
November 3, 2007, 07:17 AM
Hi Stover...

It may really be a situation in which people are refusing because they are afraid if something ugly happens THEY might be somehow held responsible (as in sued or prosecuted). That wouldn't surprise me in states like New York.
Just a thought.

jaydubya
November 3, 2007, 04:18 PM
On an aside, as a boy I lived one winter at Fort Niagara, New York (now a state park) and two at Fort Missoula, Montana (ditto). Because of those three winters, I have no great problems with the fact that the San Diego County Sheriff hates to authorize concealed permits. I'll be playing golf with some of you snowbirds real soon now. Y'all come.
Cordially, Jack

distortion9
November 4, 2007, 02:46 PM
If I carry at any other time I get arrested and forefeit my pistols and permit.

Just as a heads up.....

While you could get arrested you SHOULD NOT be arrested. You are licensed by the State of NY to legally carry a loaded weapon on your person. Period.

Suffolk County places restrictions on where and when you can carry. These restrictions are administrative in nature and not "laws", they are "rules".

If these "rules" are broken, and you are caught, they could yank your license but you won't be arrested (unless the officer is looking to jam you up). If you are arrested, it won't stick....you broke no law.

Another heads up....

Always be "on the way to or from a range".

There is a "24 hour" range in Freeport. http://www.freeportrevolver.com/

Did you know that you are also allowed to stop for non alcoholic refreshments while going to or from the range (7-11 for a Big Gulp or coffee...Mc Donalds at the mall...etc)? You are also allowed to meet or stop for car pooling reasons ( stop by a friends house to pick them up or drop them off..."I'm just sitting here waiting for my buddy, we're going to the range")

It's all right there in your Suffolk County pistol license handbook
http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/Police/Pistol_%20License_%20Handbook-020505.pdf

BobMcG
November 4, 2007, 03:07 PM
Nice friends. :barf: Just remember that the next time they want a favor from you. ;)

Thank goodness I didn't experience any problems. I had good friends as my four references. Three were LEOs and one was a Justice of the Peace. It went quick and smooth. This was three decades ago though and people thought a bit differently about firearms, hunting, etc. back then. The county had a good pro-2nd Judge then too but not anymore.

LightsOut
November 4, 2007, 06:27 PM
I had good friends as my four references. Three were LEOs and one was a Justice of the Peace. It went quick and smooth. This was three decades ago though

Not surprised it was that long. Most jurisdictions won't allow you to use any LEO as a character reference. At least that's the case in the NY area.

mnw42
November 8, 2007, 07:40 PM
PA requires three references, but I don't recall the Commonwealth having a residency for them. Regardless, I have a fairly long list of people I can use that all live within 10 miles and I have know for 5+ years.

I'm not surprised they ask for character references, but I am surprised that they any gave you a bad word. Think about it... would you put down some one who wouldn't like you having a pistol on you?

alsaqr
November 8, 2007, 07:50 PM
Sounds like it is time to take a bunch of folks out of your Rolodex. Don't forget to delete their numbers from your cell phone.

skarpenz
November 8, 2007, 08:13 PM
I sure am glad I live in Georgia. $51 and some finger prints/personal info and you'll have your permit to carry a month and a half later.

ViperJon
January 11, 2008, 01:56 PM
I live in Suffolk County as well, and seem to be going "to and from" the range a lot..;)

Has me wondering if there are any known cases in Suffolk of someone with a "sportsman" restricted license actually having it pulled because they got spotted carrying. NOT flashing or brandishing but just spotted and had some good citizen call a cop. I seriously wonder what would happen. I'm betting that most cops would take you aside and send you on your way, (assuming you are not wanted for something or have a reason for them to hold you) unless you gave them a good reason to bust your balls.

I mean really, how can they prove your not on your way to a range somewhere anytime of the day or night, you could be heading upstate or to a private gun club. And now that the actually carry restriction has been so obviously "loosened" from years ago (ie stopping to eat, picking up something at the mall etc) I'm starting to think the whole carry issue has become clouded here.

Opinions?

AZ Outlaws
January 11, 2008, 06:08 PM
Anywhere in Arizona... walk into the gun shop, pick out what you want, do the paperwork and 9 times out of 10, if you don't have a record you walk out with it on your hip, open carry right then and there.

Then schedule yourself for an 8 hour CCW class ($75.00) then send the application with a finger print card off to the State Police ($60.00 for 5 years) and within a week or so you have your permit to carry concealed.

I took the class on a Saturday, mailed off the application Sunday had had my CCW permit in my hand by Thursday afternoon. They had my weight wrong on the permit so I called in the corrected information and a replacement permit was in my hands in two days.

Oh, and the next time you buy a gun, just show the store your CCW permit and driver’s license, pay for the gun and walk out the door. It don't get any easier….

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
January 11, 2008, 06:17 PM
That's your choice and the way I see it, we look at issues, the candidates, the lies they pronounce on the issues, then pick whom we believe to be the lesser of evils. Fair enough. That's what's so good about our country. You get to make your own vote decisions.

As for references, Hell, I guess it's time to move out west and get new friends.

Think I'm kidding? People have moved across this country for much less than having a home with less restrictive handgun laws.


Washington is a 'shall issue' state. No class required for a CWP. And that permit is good across the whole state. Recognized by many other states. If you have one, there is no waiting period when buying a hand gun. Otherwise, there is a waiting period for dealer purchases. Private party sales are same day with or without CWP.

-Steve

Seiko
January 11, 2008, 06:30 PM
Sounds to me like you need better friends......

They have their convictions and thats fine. But I choose not to associate myself with people who don't believe a man has a right to protect himself and his home.

Educated Hillbilly
January 12, 2008, 01:36 AM
Stover954rr,

So sorry to hear about your predicament. Just one more reason not to live in one of the Sheeple states. If you want you can move down here to KY, I have some land you can lease until you get on your feet (HONESTLY). Move and move fast from NY, will only get worse. Hope everything works out for the best.

Dobe
January 12, 2008, 08:19 PM
am talking about people I have know my whole life turning me down, simply because they do not believe in the ownership of hand guns. I have received a number of responses such as "Russell, if I thought that anyone could be trusted/responsible with a hand gun it would be you, unfortunately I do not believe in them and thus can not justify supporting anyone with owning one." or the very popular, "what do you need one of them for?"



It is a matter of culture and publicity. In the south, that would be considered ridiculous.

Javelin
January 12, 2008, 08:21 PM
These are your friends because..... ?

:)

nicki
January 13, 2008, 05:22 AM
Never had opportunity to try for NY handgun permit myself, I left for military service and never went back.

Hate cold weather which is why I am in California. Yeah, I know, California.

My gut feeling is your friends are probably highly educated or should I say highly indoctrinated.

When California had a vote to ban handguns in 1982, support was highest among highly educated, people with advanced degrees.

People with advanced degrees are indoctrinated against guns as well as other traditional American values, and that is probably what happened with your "friends".

As far as you supporting Ron Paul, I agree with you 100 percent.

He is the only candidate who will discuss the Fed Reserve, our crashing dollar, how our foreign policy is putting us further into debt to our friends, the Chinese.

Right now we owe them 1 trillion dollars. How long do you think it will be before they start influencing our domestic and foreign policies.

If we don't do what they say, they could dump their dollar reserves on the world market and crash our economy.

Unless we change our foreign policies and our stupid domestic policies that are bankrupting us, we will face economic chaos.

It is not a matter of if, but when.

Under such a climate, emergencies could arise and all of our rights may be curtailed to maintain social order.

The German people did elect Hitler when their backs were up against the wall and the American people would do the same.

Nicki

Blackbeard
January 13, 2008, 11:47 AM
My advice would be to ask the 4 friends ahead of time if they'll say "yes". Same thing for job references. Don't put them down as references until you know what they'll say.

orb
January 15, 2008, 04:07 PM
Educated / indoctrinated, I see the connection. Unfortunately, I agree with the ignorance argument and we should try to un-brainwash the anti-gunners one at a time.

yourang?
January 16, 2008, 11:09 AM
when i applied for my permit in ny, my county required 4 references
from in county people that had known me for 5 years

i asked some guys at work, who i knew would have no hesitation to
give me a reference

one immediately told me NO, because about 20 years earlier, he
had had some problems with the law and had a record

one guy said YES, but later realized he couldnt for the same reason

problem was that i had already had put his name on the application,
so i had to go and get the application changed.....major pita
(pain in the ass)

eventually it all worked out and i got my permit....it took about 4 months,
since things move slowly here

but i was told by the permit clerk to keep an eye on my people
doing the recs because their slowness in filling out the recommendation
and their slowness to get it in the mail is one of the major reasons why
some applications take forever....(i had to bug one guy for a good long
while and he kept saying....oh yeah...i gotta get to that....it was a good
thing i kept bugging him or it would have taken even longer)

as far as leaving ny, as some have suggested, i have thought about it
my son in law to be lives in vermont....now THAT is a state to live in!!!!

but if all gun owners were to leave ny, imagine how much worse it would
become....many of us are politically active in our local groups and try
what we can to make things better, as seemingly impossible as it is,
sometimes....i feel it would be better to stay and agitate....

new york isnt as bad as many make it out to be....very few restrictions
on concealed carry....the usual ones....and upstate is usually pretty
friendly to gun owners....our bad rep has lots to do with the downstate
mentality, although those that have said that we are brainwashed from
the day we are born to "see guns as evil" are very correct...but we
are trying to correct that bad information

ViperJon
January 16, 2008, 11:19 AM
There are two New Yorks.
Downstate is a liberal anti-gun bastion, upstate is "generally" more accomodating. And it's only getting worse downstate.

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