Former Marine expelled from University of Tampa for gun posession


PDA






Chris B
September 25, 2007, 12:09 AM
A student and former Marine was expelled from the school I attend, the University of Tampa. Here is the story the school paper, "The Minaret" published.

http://media.www.theminaretonline.com/media/storage/paper1025/news/2007/09/21/NewsFeatures/Veteran.Former.Ut.Student.Discusses.Gun.Violation-2978236.shtml

A combat veteran who was kicked out of school for storing a gun in his dorm room has broken his silence.

In an exclusive interview, the former senior told his side of the story.

During the half hour interview, which was granted under the condition of anonymity, the student admitted guilt.

"I was in the wrong and the school had every right to expel me," he said, while quickly adding that the gun was legally registered.

He further explained that this incident resulted from ongoing family conflict that left him kicked out of the family home this summer.

Left with no place to store his firearms, the 29-year-old said he was forced to sell two rifles and a handgun, but decided to keep one limited-edition Colt .45 in his Austin Hall room temporarily.

Knowing he could not have weapons on campus, the student expressed intentions of bringing the gun to his cousin's house within the next week.

But before he could relocate the weapon, UT security officers and TPD converged on his room.

They were acting on an anonymous tip that the former Marine thinks came from the only student he showed his gun.

A Military Man

Last week, officers found the Colt .45 and many knives in the man's Austin Hall room. The former student was summarily suspended from classes after the discovery.

The 29-year-old has a connection with weaponry, being a former ROTC student.

"As a part of our training and leader development, we do emphasize familiarity with Army weapons," said Patrick O'Sullivan, Professor of Military Science at UT.

The transfer student was enrolled in ROTC during summer 2006. He was properly screened to make sure he was adequate material for the Army. His cadet status was stripped from him in April 2007 because of a medical condition.

"I think [he] took his disenrollment in stride. Given that it was a medical diagnosis, I believe he was more concerned with his health than anything," O'Sullivan said.

Weapons are banned from UT; therefore, ROTC follows this guideline strictly.

"UT Army ROTC cadets are UT students, so all UT policies apply to them. If students/cadets violate UT policy, then yes they can suffer all the usual possible consequences like any student," O'Sullivan added.

Family Troubles

The student spoke of a shaky history with his family. After graduation from high school, he joined the Marines for seven years. Although his parents encouraged him to join the Army, he said they did not approve of his enlistment with the Marines.

"Everything that led up to this incident stems from my family," he said.

As a sergeant, he said that he worked with nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, detecting and neutralizing them.

He told Minaret reporters of his first six months of the Second Gulf War in Kuwait and then working his way past Baghdad. He also said that he spent over two years in Japan and was stationed at bases in North Carolina and California.

The student said that after being honorably discharged from the marines, he decided to try and enter the CIA, FBI and police forces. He said that his parents did not feel he was adequate to enter such fields, so he decided to receive his degree in Government and World Affairs at UT. He said that he went against his parents' wishes and entered the ROTC program

UT After War

When asked about the impact of war he stated, "It made me open my eyes a little bit more and made me look around more." He declined to comment on his experiences with combat in Iraq.

During the first six months back, he experienced nightmares about the war, but the dreams have since subsided.

While in the ROTC program freshman year, the student felt his attitude change about UT. After dealing with noisy roommates along with waking early in the morning for PT practice, he said he was moved to a new room.

Being sleep deprived, he said, "I had never felt that bad except when I was in Iraq." He spoke of feeling punished after being moved to a new room by Residence Life. He recalled former neighbors causing the noise saying he needed psychological help because of the impact of war.

"If I had really been psycho, those people who caused all of the noise, I wouldn't have killed them, but they would have been in the hospital," he said.

His disgust about the room change left him bitter towards the University.

"From that point forward, I cared less about whether or not getting my degree at the University of Tampa."

Why guns?

The student said that he started purchasing guns, all of which were and are registered to him, for self-defense reasons.

"Its like that old saying, 'I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it,'" he said. He claimed that the gun never left his dorm room.

He said that he showed one student his gun possession on campus after she asked him for advice on purchasing a concealed weapon for herself.

A few days later, upon entering his Austin hall room, he saw his door was cracked open and looked inside to find security searching his belongings.

"When I opened the door and saw security, I was speechless," he said. After Safety and Security escorted him off campus, the investigation has ended and the former Marine said he is effectively expelled from UT. He said he has no prior arrests.

Currently, the student said he is talking with Marine Corps recruiters for re-entry in either infantry or explosive ordinance disposal. Confident he'll receive approval from doctors, he is set to sign for at least four years of service. The senior also plans to finish his Bachelor degree during his military service.

If you enjoyed reading about "Former Marine expelled from University of Tampa for gun posession" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
yesit'sloaded
September 25, 2007, 12:14 AM
So much for joining the army to protect your rights, this makes me sick.

Freelance Tax Collector
September 25, 2007, 12:25 AM
Well you know how unstable combat veterans can be. I think we should take all combat veterans and put them into work camps, perhaps building a magnificent railroad or something, just so that our vulnerable and blissfully naive public won't have to be exposed to such unpleasentness.

Man, who would want to have a gun anyway? With that kind of firepower, he could have easily surpassed the University of Texas shooter (which thankfully the police single-handedly brought to a stop without too much loss of human-resourc.... err... citizens).

I think, comrades, that we should all do good to remember that
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

yesit'sloaded
September 25, 2007, 12:32 AM
Straight from the mouth of MiniTruth eh?

Prince Yamato
September 25, 2007, 01:21 AM
Why Guns?

Because unlike ferrets, they're easier to conceal and don't leave turds on your pillow.

jefnvk
September 25, 2007, 01:35 AM
They were acting on an anonymous tip that the former Marine thinks came from the only student he showed his gun.

There was his problem. Regardless of what the rule is, if you're breaking it, it is hardly a good idea to advertise it.

Its not hard to get away with having a gun in your dorm room. It is when you advertise that you have it.

Robert Hairless
September 25, 2007, 01:45 AM
An irony in this story is that the University of Tampa campus includes the old Tampa Bay Hotel, a magnificent structure built in 1891 by Henry Plant. Plant supported the Cuban exiles of that generation who wanted to overthrow the island's Spanish government.

When the Spanish-American War began in 1898 the Tampa Bay Hotel became the headquarters for officers awaiting the signal to embark for Cuba. Theodore Roosevelt was among them. The grounds near the Tampa Bay Hotel were used as staging areas for American troops that went off to fight that war for Cuba's liberation from Spain, including the Rough Riders.

And every single one of those military men had firearms--rifles as well as handguns--with them in, around, and near that hotel. (http://www.plantmuseum.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=41)

http://www.plantmuseum.com/images/porttampa1898_large.jpg

Before and after the Spanish-American War, guests of the Tampa Bay Hotel engaged in hunting wild game as one of the entertainments for which the hotel was noted while Plant owned it. The guests used guns.

I don't mean to excuse that Marine for violating the university's rules, only to reflect on the irony of a beautiful old building that once was a symbol of liberty but now is symbolic of a university's values.

(The photo above is from the University's Henry B. Plant Museum in the Tampa Bay Hotel. It shows the Rough Riders embarking for Cuba from Port Tampa.)

wideym
September 25, 2007, 03:28 AM
Remember kids the only way to keep a secret is to tell one person and immediatly kill them. But seriously, showing a gun to anybody in a dorm for any reason is STUPID! If he had showed them a stash of weed then it would have been no problem.

Geno
September 25, 2007, 04:08 AM
What you don't ask, don't tell, and don't show...others won't know. This ain't kinnygarden...we don't do "Show & Tell" with firearms. I'll be durned...perhaps there is something to that concept.

On the Constitutional side, it's unadulterated horse doodoo that a man or woman cannot possess their firearms, especially safely stored on campus. I had my firearm on campus when we lived in married housing, during doctoral school. But, you can be darned certain I never spoke of it...period.

Henry Bowman
September 25, 2007, 09:01 AM
"I was in the wrong and the school had every right to expel me," he said, while quickly adding that the gun was legally registered.

The student said that he started purchasing guns, all of which were and are registered to him, for self-defense reasons.
Granted, having to fill out a 4473 makes firearms purchased from a dealer traceable, but why must the media (and gun owners) perpetuate this myth about registration (in free states like Florida)? It makes the unknowledgeable masses assume that it is "normal" and acceptable.

RedneckUF
September 25, 2007, 09:06 AM
I'm just glad Tampa PD was there to keep everyone safe. Could you imagine what someone could do in a dorm with a gun? We must keep them out of dorms. If only Virginia Tech Police would have been so on top of things... :rolleyes:

Seriously, I spent 4 years at the University of Florida and that's one of the main reasons I didn't live on campus. To me, he is probably one of the most qualified people in the dorm to have the gun. We really need to change that law. Guns should not be prohibited on any campus- End of story.

hso
September 25, 2007, 09:11 AM
I don't see any "legal" content so far here so I'm moving it to General.

AirForceShooter
September 25, 2007, 09:21 AM
His guns were "registered"?
Who made that up?

AFS

TexasRifleman
September 25, 2007, 09:32 AM
They were acting on an anonymous tip that the former Marine thinks came from the only student he showed his gun.

Besides the legalities, if you are going to knowingly skirt the edge of the law, or even break it outright, it is best not to tell anyone.

waterhouse
September 25, 2007, 10:43 AM
"I was in the wrong and the school had every right to expel me," he said

While I don't agree with the school's policy, it is nice to have someone take personal responsibility for their actions. So rare these days, it seems.

Hutch
September 25, 2007, 10:59 AM
"Legally registered." Another tour de force for our insightful, fact-checking news media. If they continue to reveal themselves to be this Butt-Stupid regarding firearms, there will come a time when I'll have to check out the bedroom window to confirm it if they report that the sun rose in the East this morning.

frank23185
September 25, 2007, 11:20 AM
Was this a warrantless search?

wheelgunslinger
September 25, 2007, 11:24 AM
Freelance writer here.

Even if I wrote a piece that was technically accurate, the editor would "pinch" the sentences to shrink the word count. It's happened to me before with newsprint articles on technical subjects like motorcycles and such.

A sentence that reads like:
"I was in the wrong and the school had every right to expel me," he said, "but the weapon was purchased by me and all the appropriate ATF forms were filled out at the time of purchase. There would be no problem for authorities to verify that the weapon was mine."

can easily, and necessarily (for an editor), get pinched to:
"I was in the wrong and the school had every right to expel me," he said, while quickly adding that the gun was legally registered.

The editor thinks nothing of it, and countless gunnies shake their heads in disgust and write letters of clarification that sound angry, indignant, and play into the gun nut stereotypes.

But, if the editor does this enough times, they feel the story is reported and they've saved enough column inches to sell another ad.

This is why I'm getting a crminal justice degree and transitioning into being a part-time writer for magazines and print features while working in the private sector of CJ.

As for the article's subject matter: It's pretty basic law to understand that he was in the wrong. He even admitted it. But, that doesn't make it right.

I've been trying to come up with a way to protest my school's policies, but can't come up with anything that won't make me look like Andrew Meyer.
"Don't Taze Me Bro!" :D

The Unknown User
September 25, 2007, 11:42 AM
Sorry, but he broke the law. That's what happens.

TexasRifleman
September 25, 2007, 11:44 AM
Was this a warrantless search?

Living in on campus housing often requires you to allow searches at the whim of the school so warrants don't mean much.

yesit'sloaded
September 25, 2007, 11:47 AM
Sorry, but he broke the law. That's what happens.
Yes, but the law broke the constitution, which is the SUPREME law of the land.

Travis McGee
September 25, 2007, 12:03 PM
Two people can keep a secret, as long as one of them is dead.

iiibdsiil
September 25, 2007, 12:23 PM
Oh what a great school I attend. Glad they are keeping it safe for me since I have to leave my gun at home!

dasmi
September 25, 2007, 12:29 PM
The moral of the story is, don't show anyone the gun you aren't suppose to have on campus.

Hokkmike
September 25, 2007, 12:31 PM
Some aspects of this story sound a little suspicious to me. Sorry!

Henry Bowman
September 25, 2007, 01:22 PM
Thanks, wheelgunslinger. Still, a careful journalist could anticipate the editor's "pinch" and draft the original to read "while quickly adding that the gun was legally owned [or purchased]."

Scorpiusdeus
September 25, 2007, 03:27 PM
The fact remains that it is against the rules, he knew it, he broke it, and now he's gotta suffer the consequences. I give him my respect for having the balls to man up on the issue.

Joe Demko
September 25, 2007, 03:55 PM
What does his being a former Marine have to do with anything, for good or ill? Former Marines have exactly the same rights as any other citizen. Neither more nor less.

Justin
September 25, 2007, 04:06 PM
He should have arranged for off-campus housing, gotten a safe deposit box, or kept his mouth shut until he was able to arrange for storage off-campus.

That said, expelling him is a bit harsh. Something like this should result in punishment that gets the point across without destroying his college career.

Houston Tom
September 25, 2007, 05:29 PM
I really feel for the guy but

I attended Camp Tampa (aka Moscow on the Hillbrough) in the early 80's and was on the student Judicial Board and as much as I may or may not liek or agree with soem of the rules in the Students code they are the rules by which all students must abide. The university no longer gets any money from me because of some of the decissions they have made.

I wish him all the luck.

Wheeler44
September 25, 2007, 05:54 PM
Look, he's 29 years old, he fought in Iraq, he's was in the service for seven years, he works with nuclear and biological weapons, he has a problem with college kids making noise, he still cares what his family thinks about his career, he can't follow rules, he can't keep his yap shut and you all got your knickers in a knot because he got caught. Sheesh, maybe, just maybe this fella is better served not living in a dorm room .

iiibdsiil
September 25, 2007, 09:57 PM
Let's rephrase that Wheeler...

He's a war veteran that appreciates sleeping at night, was trusted with nuclear and biological weapons, has strong family morals, and was trying to help educate a fellow student on how she can defend herself. He was basically told by the university that he is not qualified to have a weapon in his possession, and also that he basically has no right to true self-defense.

It's all in how you wanna word it...

And let's not leave out the fact that the projects are literally catty corner from the university. I see kids out jogging around the outside perimeter of the campus at 11 o'clock at night and wonder how these yuppies are that stupid. Campus security is a joke.

BUT, on 2nd thought, if this is the Marine that I had an altercation with in the library because we were being too loud working on a group project while he was trying to study... then I can understand why he was expelled, because he had a real big mouth. This kid told us that if we want to be real men to go join the Marines and this that and the other. I didn't take the High Road in my response and being with 4 other people, I was ready to take it outside. He honestly needed a straightening out...

Now I gotta see if I can't find a picture of him.

CoinMan
September 26, 2007, 05:47 AM
"What does his being a former Marine have to do with anything, for good or ill? Former Marines have exactly the same rights as any other citizen. Neither more nor less."

It has everything to do with it, because the liberal media and college administrators get a two for one here. They can demonize gun owners and bash the military in one fells swoop.

You see, the article is feel-good piece for leftists who hate their country.

Houston Tom
September 26, 2007, 10:48 AM
And let's not leave out the fact that the projects are literally catty corner from the university. I see kids out jogging around the outside perimeter of the campus at 11 o'clock at night and wonder how these yuppies are that stupid. Campus security is a joke.

And it is a lot nicer now then it used to be. Hyde park had not been taken over by the yuppies yet. My freshamn year a girl got attacked in the parking lot behind the ROTC building, and a couple of guys and I chased the Goblin into those projects I know very well how bad that area can be. I had a gun my freshman year and I had to keep it at the police station. They used to have a police annex in Howell hall (if that is still there). That being said when he entered the university he agreed to obey the rules of the university, like them or not. Not many people like property tax but you have to pay it. IF you do not like the rules then work to change them or move off campus.

strambo
September 26, 2007, 05:57 PM
Sorry, but he broke the law. That's what happens.No, he didn't break any laws. That's why TPD involvment was so silly. Any charges mentioned in that article? Nope, just expelled, which from a legal perspective is like a store owner asking a rude customer to leave and a police officer escorting them out. No broken laws, just the rule of a private institution.

Had he refused to leave, the charge would be trespassing, not anything to do with his legal firearm. His mistake was showing someone...storing a gun in a dorm room for a week until you can put it off campus is no big deal as long as you recognize and accept the potential consequence (expulsion from school) and keep your yap shut. No legal issue though.

I had a problem with annoying, immature, college brats making noise after quiet hours (on weekdays) when I had to get up for PT in ROTC too (my one year in the dorm). It was post enlistment in the Army, but pre-war. Suggesting this guy has psych issues is just silly and absurd just because he asked some inconsiderate jerks to shut up...whether getting up at 0500 for PT or studying for a test, quiet hour rules in the dorm need to be enforced.

lacoochee
September 26, 2007, 06:13 PM
I had a gun my freshman year and I had to keep it at the police station.

There's the solution, I had my guns with me at USF, I kept them at the Campus Police Station and checked them out when I left campus. I have a friend that went to Univ. of Tampa, they did the same. The guy was stupid in this regard being a vet doesn't automatically make you smart it just makes me give you the benefit of the doubt until otherwise proven different. The Marine part, well I was in the Navy, so...:p

Double Naught Spy
September 26, 2007, 06:23 PM
I have to agree with Joe Demko, what does having been a Marine have to do with anything? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Having served in the Marines does not make you more equal than anybody else. You don't get to skirt the laws just because of that service. It sounds like he is playing the veteran card because he can't come up with a better justification for his stupidity in getting caught and so he hopes to use misdirection to gain sympathy.

yesit'sloaded said
Yes, but the law broke the constitution, which is the SUPREME law of the land.

Apparently, you are not too familiar with Constitutional law or the fact that your interpretation of the Constitution is not agreed upon in a similar manner by the branch of the government set up by the Constitution to interpret the Constitution and the laws of the land, the Supreme Court.

Autolite
September 26, 2007, 06:58 PM
This story does seem a little odd. A 29 year old with several years of military service should have had enough life experience to know when to keep their mouth shut. Sometimes it's best "to say as little as possible to as few people as possible as seldom as possible". CYA ...

Mr Kablammo
September 26, 2007, 07:00 PM
Put 'em in the trunk of the car, park off campus always. Don't break the rules and be careful in the choice of your friends.

Nebor
September 26, 2007, 07:10 PM
Registered to say that a maintenance manager saw a pistol at my University of Texas residence. I got called in to the Assistant Director of Residential Affairs who basically said, "You know guns are against the rules, right?" I said, "Yes sir." He said, "Good. Glad we have an understanding." And sent me on my way.

shooter429
September 26, 2007, 07:20 PM
not all laws are good or just or even make sense. I think that the gun free schools thing is really dumb. In my state, for example, people who have CC permits are to be arrested, and have the permit revoked if they take one on school grounds. But the gang members or others who have never had background checks carry anyway.

So the only people who cannot carry on school grounds are the ones that have clean backgrounds and follow the laws in the first place. That is really dumb. School shootings could be stopped if they let responsible adults in the schools carry. Just like pilots, I think teachers and parents with permits should be allowed-even encouraged to carry. But that would make too darn much sense.

That having been said, showing anybody else in the dorm was begging for trouble. Its not hard to get away with having a gun in your dorm room. It is when you advertise that you have it.

Nuff said

Shooter429

Double Naught Spy
September 26, 2007, 09:19 PM
not all laws are good or just or even make sense.

They were believed to be good, or just, or made sense to those who penned them at the time they were penned. However, just because you don't agree with a law isn't justification for breaking it.

When it comes to incidents like this, I have to wonder why this guy isn't responsible enough to keep his mouth shut about breaking the rules and/or laws and if he can't do that, then just how responsible is he overall? I don't know, but he failed the easy part of the responsibility test by making his weapon known to others.

Joe Demko
September 26, 2007, 09:57 PM
I agree with there being questions about this fellow's overall judgement. If he had kept mum about the gun, none of this would be happening. When you decide you are going to be a rule breaker, it's not a good sign that you advertise that you are a rule breaker.
I still say his veteran status is not germane to the gun issue. The rule, as written, applies to all students who live in the dormitory. There's no addendum that says "except for former Marines."
When I was an undergraduate, I lived in a dormitory for one semester. Like the guy in the OP, I was older than the other students. I kept contraband of various kinds, including weapons, in my room in defiance of university rules. I never had any problems because the only one who knew about it was me. In graduate school, I carried a gun to class on a regular basis, once again in defiance of university rules. Same story. I kept my yap shut about it and it never became an issue.
If you don't like the rules so much you can't live with them, there are basically two choices:
1. Get the rules changed.
2. Take your chances with breaking the rules.
If you're going to choose 2, you need to be smarter about it than he was and accept your penalty if you get caught.

KimKommando
September 26, 2007, 10:03 PM
It is against the law to carry a gun on school grounds. Being a Marine doesn't exempt him.

lacoochee
September 27, 2007, 07:45 PM
Actually not so much,

any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such
college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal
electric weapon or device designed solely for
defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;

Pretty sure you are OK legally as long as you are not in a school building, not sure about dorms. It was certainly ok for me to store my firearms at the USF Police Station located on campus, I could withdraw them at anytime.

Even then if you have a Concealed Weapons License the most you can be charged with would be a second degree misdemeanor.

iiibdsiil
September 27, 2007, 08:49 PM
Even then if you have a Concealed Weapons License the most you can be charged with would be a second degree misdemeanor.

And in this case you lose $7,000 FL resident tuition or $10,000+ non-FL resident tuition.

I don't carry at UT for this reason, I'm not worried about a retarded law. I'm still on mommy-welfare, she pays for my school, my off-campus residence, my gas, my insurance, bought my car. I'll take the misdemeanor if they don't expel me. :D The state will slap me on the wrist, mom will kill me!

Crunker1337
September 27, 2007, 09:41 PM
A fat lot of good we're doing this nation and society by persecuting upstanding individuals (that have done nothing wrong) who have put life and limb on the line for American freedom.

:mad:

tegemu
September 28, 2007, 07:09 AM
I'm really sorry to hear that Florida has instituted gun registration.

Double Naught Spy
September 28, 2007, 08:54 AM
A fat lot of good we're doing this nation and society by persecuting upstanding individuals (that have done nothing wrong) who have put life and limb on the line for American freedom.

Being in the military does not make you more equal than other people. A benefit of serving in the military, or other branches of the government does not put you above the law. As for not doing anything wrong, he broke school rules and he broke the law. As he probably had firearms with him during his entire stay, he was chronically breaking the rules and chronically breaking the law.

JohnMcD348
September 28, 2007, 08:59 AM
Well, like everyone else has said, he made the mistake of trusting someone and trying to help them with a very important decision. That was his mistake and he admits to it, accepts responsibility for it and faces the consequences in stride. While I was in school at the Community college level at Hillsborough Community College, we had a student there who was mentally unstable. They were actually under the care of a mental health professional. They were disruptive to the class, threatening to the staff and they were just smart enough to play the game in a manner that they were not able to be escorted off campus for quite a few months. It got to the point that myself and one other student in the class like me who was a prior service veteran, carried a firearm in our book bag daily. We never allowed the other student to be alone with anyone among our class, including staff members because we genuinely feared for the safety of our classmates. The only people who knew we had these in our possession was us. It was our secret for 4 semesters. The student was finally expelled from school and a restraining order placed on them. Non of the other classmates and staff knew until a year after the classes were over and the topic of the student came up again amongst some of us. They all expressed a great fear of harm coming to them and thought it would not have been a surprise had that person come back into the class caused us harm. It was during that discussion theat a few of the others learned that myself and the fellow classmate had both doors covered with the understanding that f that student came back in that one would cover the other if need be.

But NEVER did either of us make that plan known or the fact that we had firearms on our person while enrolled in the school.

Mannlicher
September 28, 2007, 10:20 AM
Tampa is private school, with its own rules. The student knew the rules, and chose to not follow them.
Sad, but end of story............

Wes Janson
September 28, 2007, 01:22 PM
I could be wrong here, but it was my understanding that even in a dorm it would be a crime to possess a weapon.

2)(a) A person shall not possess any firearm, electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade or box cutter, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, at a school-sponsored event or on the property of any school, school bus, or school bus stop;
For the purposes of this section, "school" means any preschool, elementary school, middle school, junior high school, secondary school, career center, or postsecondary school, whether public or nonpublic.


And if I understand Gutmacher correctly, it's technically a federal felony to possess a firearm within 1000 feet of a school without a CWP (or in a locked container, etc).

littlegator
September 28, 2007, 01:37 PM
Sorry, but he broke the law. That's what happens.

I guess that's the point right? That for some reason, the school, local and state laws trumped the Constitution of the United States, which is supposed to be the supreme law of the land. Acquiescence by the courts and the legislature to uphold the constitutional mandate promulgated under the 2nd Amendment.

Double Naught Spy
September 28, 2007, 05:05 PM
I guess that's the point right? That for some reason, the school, local and state laws trumped the Constitution of the United States, which is supposed to be the supreme law of the land. Acquiescence by the courts and the legislature to uphold the constitutional mandate promulgated under the 2nd Amendment.

That is right. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it holds that the law of the land is to be interpretted by the Supreme Court (Article III), not by individual citizens, cities, or states. The 2nd Amendment has not been upheld as absolute by the Supreme Court. Sorry.

littlegator
September 28, 2007, 05:22 PM
That's obviously what I meant by stating that the court's have acquiesced in their constitutional mandate. Since U.S. v. Miller, (1939) where the Court upheld a state statute requiring registration of sawed-off shotguns, subsequent Courts have interpreted the 2nd Amendment as being fluid and limited. This, of course, is nothing more than a reflection of the precendent set as far back as Marbury v. Madison, (1803) where the Court expounded upon the powers of the judiciary and their role as interpretors of the Constitution: "It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases, must of necessity expound and interpret that rule." Perhaps my statement was not clear enough in my attempt at brevity at the sake of boredom, for what I intended was to indicate that the Court's interpretation of the Constitution, stemming from my opinion of the Court's trespass of the legislature (who acquiesced in their own law making powers), thereby treating the Judiciary as an invitee rather, was overbroad and erroneous.

In other words, I think they got it wrong. James Madison and Alexander Hamilton, as a result of a debate over the constitutionality of an act to establish the first bank of the United States, had some very interesting arguments regarding the interpretation of the constitition. Madison stated generally that the federal government is not limited and "is not a general grant, out of which particular powers are excepted; it is a grant of particular powers only." Madison Speech to the H.R. (1791) In conjunction, he stated that where the meaning of the constitution is clear, the "consequences, whatever they may be, are to be admitted." Id. So it should have been, IMO, with the 2nd Amendment, wherein it states, that "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Patently clear language, however, that was interpreted by Miller and progeny as otherwise. Judicial activism at its worst.

Double Naught Spy
September 28, 2007, 09:54 PM
Right, the Founding Fathers screwed up by allowing the Constitution to be interpreted by the courts by setting up the Supreme Court as holding the judicial power of the United States?

What you seem to be saying is that you think they have strayed because you don't agree with their interpretation of the law, but that was what they were put in place to do by the Founding Fathers, interpret the law.

The supreme law of the land is only as supreme as its interpretation.

Autolycus
September 28, 2007, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by RedneckUF: I'm just glad Tampa PD was there to keep everyone safe. Could you imagine what someone could do in a dorm with a gun? We must keep them out of dorms. If only Virginia Tech Police would have been so on top of things...

Seriously, I spent 4 years at the University of Florida and that's one of the main reasons I didn't live on campus. To me, he is probably one of the most qualified people in the dorm to have the gun. We really need to change that law. Guns should not be prohibited on any campus- End of story. Its a private university. They have the right to say no guns. Its not the law in this case. I agree the law should allow guns on campus but I feel that private businesses should have the right to say no guns in their business.

I agree wholeheartedly that he should be punished for breaking university policy but the law needs to be changed.

shooter429
September 29, 2007, 04:15 AM
You seem to be saying that no matter what a law says, and however it has been misinterpreted by the courts we should all just accept it. IMHO The law is good only if it does not violate a higher law. And in this case, what happened to inalienable rights granted us by the creator and guaranteed by the constitution?
What good is RKBA if every potentially dangerous place bans them? Well, like I always say, I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by 6.

Shooter429

langenc
September 29, 2007, 07:05 PM
There is NO such thing as a FORMER marine except John Murtha.

If you enjoyed reading about "Former Marine expelled from University of Tampa for gun posession" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!