Budget holographic scopes


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jeepmor
September 25, 2007, 03:28 AM
I'm looking to replace my traditional scope on my AR to a holographic unit. Unfortunately, with baby pending, I won't be getting an Eotech or Acog immediately. Please spare me the "get what you pay for" platitudes for it's simply not in the budget just yet. My AR is a flat top if that helps.

I see NCstar and have two of their rifle scopes and they are nothing like my Leupold on my hunting rifle, so I know that. However, in the budget realm of $150 or so, is there one that clearly rises above the rest? It will likely get traded away or swapped out for something better once bonus season rolls around after the holidays, but for now, I'd like something to hold me over and want to start practicing the two eyes open shooting techniques for next years coyote/rabbit/squeak season(s).

With the kid coming, I will likely just be a range rat for a year or so because the weekends with the boys out in Eastern Oregon will be taking a back seat until things stabilize. First child, don't know what to expect besides lots of sleep deprivation.

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hankdatank1362
September 25, 2007, 06:29 AM
Expect expenses... lots of them.

Expect headaches... lots of them.

Expect moments with your child that make you smile and grin like a big dopey idiot... and that's okay.

Helpful hint : Change your baby's first diaper. The black tar poo thing is kinda gross, but it's worth it for many reasons.

jwxspoon
September 25, 2007, 06:43 AM
I put a cheap chinese made holographic sight on a Beretta Neos .22 just for fun.

I got it off of ebay for $30 or so. For plinking, it's a lot of fun and one of the most popular guns at the range when we go.

jw

NavyLCDR
September 25, 2007, 07:50 AM
I've got the BSA multi-reticle sight for $50 from Midway USA. It's now on sale for $30, dang it!

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=399922&t=11082005

It's on an AR-15 with flattop and standard front sight tower. I shoot it with the tiny dot reticle selected, put the dot on target, the front sight just below the dot and it's accurate as heck. My wife just uses the circle/crosshairs reticle only and she's accurate with it too.

For $30 you just can't beat it, in my opinion. It's been real good for me.

It does not come with a cover, though, but the ScopeCoat for ATN Ultra Sight fits perfectly:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=698910&t=11082005

NCLivingBrit
September 25, 2007, 08:55 AM
NavyLT, is that thing less prone to parallax than the cheapo ($30) Wal Mart BSA red-dots?

I bought one of those on a whim the other day and had it back at the store before the day was out. The tiniest head motion send the dot scudding sideways like a scalded cat.

NavyLCDR
September 25, 2007, 09:03 AM
My wife and I don't seem to have too much problems with parallax, I know she doesn't use the front sight at all and does just fine with it. We have only shot at a 30 yard range, though, but holographic sights are for short range use anyway.

I did have a noob shooter trying it last night, though, and he was shooting into the ceiling! It was near closing time and we didn't have time to trouble shoot what he was doing wrong.

Ala Dan
September 25, 2007, 09:05 AM
Considerably, less expensive than the EO-Tech, is the Bushnell HOLO-sight;which I sell brand NIB for only $239.88. Just as good as the EO-
Tech; just minus the metal casing that encloses the EO-Tech. Some
industry insider's say that EO-Tech's go out the front door, and the
Bushnell's go out the back door~! :eek:

FootNote: Recently, one on my customers came into the shop complaining
'bout a Bushnell HOLO-sight malfunctioning while firing his 12 gague 11-87
Remington shotgun. Come to find out, the recoil from the shotgun was the
culprit, as the battery door was coming ajar and dislodging the batteries
from the terminals. Easy fix, cut a thin piece of cardboard to cover the
batteries, yet allow the compartment to be close securely. This puts
pressure on the batteries, keeping 'em in place.

Likewise, I have NO complaints with the Bushnell HOLO-sight mounted atop
my Colt M4 .223. Using a Calvary Arms Z-mount [which is attached to a
removeable carry handle], I mounted the HOLO-sight on the pictatinny
rail; right above the handguard, which allows use of both the rifle sights
as well as the HOLO-sight. ;):D

NCLivingBrit
September 25, 2007, 09:18 AM
I know she doesn't use the front sight at all

NavyLT, you've lost me here. I thought the point of both red-dot and holo sights was to replace the function of the iron sights, not supplement it? If so, the front sight wouldn't normally be involved anyway, as you'd be using the projected reticle instead of the normal sight plane, right?

If not, that might explain my lack of luck with them so far.......

Ala Dan, them suckers cost more than the rifle I'd be putting it on. Much like the OP I suspect, for me budget means -budget-, not cheap for an EBR :)

NavyLCDR
September 25, 2007, 09:23 AM
That is correct, the holographic sight is designed to be used as the only sight, by itself. But my AR has a non-removable front sight tower, so I figure it certainly can't hurt, if I am shooting for accuracy and not speed, to take advantage of everything I can to improve accuracy. I can even put my flip-up rear sight on behind the holographic and use iron sights through the holo, but then the control knob for the holo sight is a real pita to operate.

NavyLCDR
September 25, 2007, 09:27 AM
You are perfectly legal, by Illinois State law to transport your firearm anywhere you desire as long as you have the FOID and it is unloaded and in a case:

http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/ptfire.pdf

Very first question/answer.

The case does not even have to locked.

NCLivingBrit
September 25, 2007, 09:36 AM
Gotcha.

I'll have to give one of these a whirl, as I've been looking for an alternative to irons for my latest bubba-job. If it works any better than the red-dot from BSA I tried, I'll be happy.

The-Fly
September 25, 2007, 09:56 AM
Burris makes the XTS-135, which works almost identical to the aimpoints. I have one on my AR, and I know several law enforcement officers using them as well on their patrol rifles. Midway has it for $205.

jeepmor
September 25, 2007, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the info folks. I've got some looking to do. However, even an EOtech will not exceed the cost of my AR.

The Eotech and Bushnells do look very much the same don't they..hmmm:scrutiny:

benEzra
September 25, 2007, 11:39 AM
I bought one of those on a whim the other day and had it back at the store before the day was out. The tiniest head motion send the dot scudding sideways like a scalded cat.
At what range? You will get parallax at close range with any optic, i.e. looking at a wall in your house.

The question is, how much parallax is there at 50 yards, 100 yards, or whatever range you typically shoot at.

I have a Kobra on my SAR-1 (nice sight, $179, also available in a flattop compatible rail mount version), and you do get a little parallax at close range, but it doesn't amount to much At a distance, it appears to be parallax free within the limits of what I can judge.

I wouldn't rule out a cheap red dot before checking it against a distant target.

NCLivingBrit
September 25, 2007, 11:46 AM
At what range? You will get parallax at close range with any optic, i.e. looking at a wall in your house.

The question is, how much parallax is there at 50 yards, 100 yards, or whatever range you typically shoot at.

Hrm. That I didn't know (man I say that a lot here). I am loath to be seen scoping "targets" off my porch, as it stirs up the natives, so I was mostly looking at close stuff. Guess I have to go back in the belly of the beast and pick up another one to try out. Good thing they have that no questions return policy.

TX1911fan
September 25, 2007, 11:51 AM
EOtech makes the Bushnell.

Truglo makes great red dot sights for cheap.

The red dot moving is not a paralax problem. It is, in fact, the beauty of the red dot sight. The dot moves in relation to your head, but watch where it is in relation to the target. It stays in the same place, so no matter where your head is, if you can see the dot, pull the trigger. You'll hit what the dot is on (assuming it's zeroed, of course). This is not a scope, it is a sight, so the dot moving is not a problem.

DoubleTapDrew
September 25, 2007, 03:19 PM
If you aren't opposed to an aimpoint clone I have heard good things about the Ultradot Strike Dot on AR and AK rifles Link (http://www.snakerun.com/Strike%20Dot.htm) and at $100 it keeps you within budget. I'm toying with the idea of getting one for my AK for the time being unless the AR is willing to share the EOtech.

I have heard the main difference between the bushnell and EOtech (both made by L3) is the bushnell has a plastic hood while the EO has a tougher metal one, so supposedly the EOtech is more rugged. I haven't heard about anybody breaking either one, but the bushnell hasn't been out that long. Both of those are outside your budget though so it's moot.

Never No More
September 25, 2007, 03:29 PM
Id just got done researching these sights. I weighed features, cost and functions.

What I ended up with was $135 well spend.

http://images.eriflescopes.com/mgen/digimarc.ms?img=master:ATN056.jpg&h=300&w=300

Works so well on the SKS, the wife who is blind in one eye, and cant see out the other, can hit a pop can at 100 yards

benEzra
September 25, 2007, 03:49 PM
Hrm. That I didn't know (man I say that a lot here). I am loath to be seen scoping "targets" off my porch, as it stirs up the natives, so I was mostly looking at close stuff. Guess I have to go back in the belly of the beast and pick up another one to try out. Good thing they have that no questions return policy.
I had the same experience when I first bought a Kobra for my "AK". I mounted the sight, looked at a wall, moved my head around, and the POA seemed to wander in every direction. Fortunately, I reserved judgement and took it to the range, and it works great.

The reason this happens is just geometry. Let's say that your optic has a 2-inch lens, and is designed to be parallax-free at 50 yards. That means that a line of sight through the left edge of the lens, the center of the lens, and the right edge of the lens will all converge at 50 yards. So the lines of sight at the edges of the lens make an isosceles triangle with a base of 2 inches (the lens diameter) and an apex located 50 yards downrange.

Now, chop off the triangle ten feet from the muzzle. That's the dot position projected on your wall. You move your head left, the dot seems to crawl left on your wall; you move your head right, the dot seems to crawl right. That's how the dot has to move at 10 feet in order to be stationary at 50 yards.

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