hunting with ak47?


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trigga
September 26, 2007, 03:19 PM
i'm pretty sure this has been covered before but my buddy is going hunting for the first time this year and he's got a semi auto ak47 he was going to take.. i don't know if it's legal in the state of WI but i have seen some folks hunt with a full size ak47 before... i keep hearing people say the shot limit in WI deer hunting is five shots. i'm sure the guy had a full size banana clip. the regulations only states that the barrel has to be a certain length, caliber bigger than .22, certain over all length, one shot per pull of the trigger... where are you guys getting this info besides the regular regulation book that is available at any sports store? thanks in advance.

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trigga
September 26, 2007, 03:24 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=94763
i guess that answers the five shot question. i have two buddies that hunt with the ww2 m1 garand, an 8 shot 30-06 i believe and they have never been stopped...

B.D. Turner
September 26, 2007, 04:50 PM
Garand shooters can pick up a two and three round enblock clip for hunting. Thats what I did for a few seasons.

kenhtake
September 27, 2007, 10:24 AM
You can get 5 round mags for the AK, do a search online or you could possibly get a 10 rounder and put a block inside it to limit it to 5.

AK's make dandy deer rifles. My mother used one for years even though she had access to much nicer rifles, she said she just liked the feel.

Clipper
September 27, 2007, 12:00 PM
CDNN has 5-round magazines, I just recently bought a couple. Winchester makes a 125gr pointed soft point that should shoot to mostly the same POI of the FMJ Wolf stuff. I think the 154gr stuff is too heavy for the x39 round.

BobMcG
September 27, 2007, 02:25 PM
I know that in my state the limit is a five round magazine so I do own a couple. I'll most likely never take it out hunting with me but this way I'm covered if I choose to do so. It's not my idea of a "fine" hunting weapon and I have plenty of those.

ArmedBear
September 27, 2007, 02:33 PM
Tell him not to wave it above his head and shout "Allahu Akbar!" And leave the Army surplus clothes at home.

Some of them old deer hunters can be a might touchy.:D

MCgunner
September 27, 2007, 06:05 PM
I don't hunt with inaccurate rifles, personally. Best AK I ever fired did good to shoot 5 MOA. No thanks. Magazines are the least of your worries. AKs make fun range toys. I prefer the SKS, though, even for that, a little more accurate, though no contender at Camp Perry or anything. An SKS will at least get you in the 3 MOA range.

trigga
September 27, 2007, 10:48 PM
nice to know. most people i come across are against assault rifle hunting. i don't know why.

MCgunner
September 27, 2007, 10:51 PM
Me, I ain't against hunting with an "assault rifle" (if you really call a semi auto an "assault rifle"), but I do request (1) adequate accuracy and (2) adequate cartridge for the game hunted. The AR platform is fine for accuracy and some ARs (AR10?) chamber the .308. The AKs I've fired all fell well short in the accuracy department. A well set up AR will shoot 1 MOA and the run of the mill will do 2 MOA. I don't hunt deer with the .223, though.

If I wanna hunt deer with a mil surp, there's plenty of bolt guns to choose from or the good ol' Garand or the M14 platform. No, they're not real handy in the field. I'll never give up my Remington M7 for one. But, they have the cartridge in spades and they have the accuracy. If you can get around the 10+ lb heft of the things, they're fine. Heck, I have a 20 ft long 30 lbs thing (well, okay, I slightly exaggerate) called a Hakim, 10 round box mag, fires 8x57 mauser. THAT thing is a BEAST! It's quite accurate and God knows it's powerful, reminds me of a BAR or maybe a Bofors or something. LOL! God, though, you need a trailer to get the thing to your deer stand! It was only 80 bucks about 15 years ago and it's a hoot to take to the range and impress people with, bayonet and all. :D

Gun Wielding Maniac
September 27, 2007, 11:06 PM
AK's are usually accurate enough. My 7.62's will do 3MOA. 5.45 and 5.56 better... Typically, "bad shooting" AK's are due to user's who have a hard time dealing with the sights.

Optics do a lot for the AK.

trigga
September 27, 2007, 11:24 PM
most deers i've seen are within a hundred yard radius and if i can make that shoot within less that two inches @ 100 yards, i would say is accurate enough for me. some people have higher standards, but that is me. my saying is if you have a shot, then take it because you might not get another.

MCgunner
September 27, 2007, 11:35 PM
I just wanna make SURE that within my range effectiveness, I put that bullet where it kills the deer and it don't run off limpin' from a poor shot and lost. I've never lost a deer, yet, in many years of hunting and don't plan to start. It almost happened a few times, but I found 'em and they were hit solid. I feel this is my obligation, to make a well placed one shot kill...remember that ethics thread????? :D The way I hunt, firepower is totally moot. I often hunt with a contender pistol, in fact. That gun shoots 1.5 moa even though it's a handgun. To its effective range limit, it's a very effective gun.

Maybe I'm a little more anal about accuracy, but I just like my hunting rifles to shoot 1 moa or better. I know this is a high standard, but it's a very achievable standard with judicious handloading even for an out of the box hunting rifle. I have free floated and bedded a few rifles, but normally, a good bolt action hunting rifle, even a cheap one like the Savage 110 (more accurate than it has a right to be) will shoot 1 moa with a good load out of the box. I see no need to step down in accuracy and power from a hunting rifle to an AK. Just me, though. I particularly like my .308 caliber Remington stainless M7. It's lighter, handier, more accurate, and more potent than any AK on the planet for its intended purpose, hunting. Ain't very tacticool, but that ain't what hunting is about for me. To each his own, though. I have killed one deer with an SKS, at about 80 yards. That gun is only about a 3 moa gun. Keep your shots under 100 yards and pass on anything, but broadsides out at 75 to 100 yards and you should be okay if you can shoot 4 moa or less with the gun.

R.W.Dale
September 27, 2007, 11:53 PM
An AK is more than accurate enough to hunt with at the kind of ranges you'd use an AK at. Even if you had an abysmal AK that shot 6 moa that's still a good deal smaller than the kill zone on a whitetail at 100yds. I've seen a lot of really ragged 30-30's in the woods that even the most sloppy AK would shoot circles around yet you don't have do gooders telling their owners that their rifle is sub par hunting equipment. I wonder why this is?

If an AK isn't accurate enough to hunt deer with then smooth bore shotguns should be illegal for hunting whitetail

my advice is grab a box of 154grn Wolf and go kill sumpin tasty, stay away from domestic 7.62x39 the stuff is underpowered and terribly inaccurate even in a bolt action.

MCgunner
September 28, 2007, 12:02 AM
That's another thing, available ammo in 7.62x39. There is nothing that really gets me going. I used to handload a 135 Sierra Pro Hunter intended for the .30-30 out of a contender. It shot 3-3.5 moa out of my SKS rifle despite the fact that it was a .308 diameter bullet. It opened up and did admirably well on the one deer I shot with it. I don't really trust the hollow point "hunting" bullets to work that Wolf imports. The American stuff is awful, as krochus says. I'm not sure where to go with hunting bullets in the caliber, thinking maybe of trying some .30-30 flat points in 150 grains. Might be an option. But, it's on the back burner as a project right now, something to do when I get time. The 135 pro hunter bullet is no longer offered by Sierra. I haven't really fully researched the bullet offerings in the caliber in the last 10 years, might be a full diameter bullet (.311") offered now that would be a good choice. I don't really care to hunt with that rifle anymore, though, so I haven't worked on it.

R.W.Dale
September 28, 2007, 12:05 AM
You should thy the 125grn ballistic tip! They shoot great in my CZ and nosler states that they'll expand reliably all the way down to 1600 fps

Deer Hunter
September 28, 2007, 12:07 AM
I used an SKS when I was a kid while hunting. Your friend is going to be just fine. Don't let anyone tell your friend that he can't hunt with it. Grab up some Brown Bear or Monarch SP ammo and go at it. It's how you take your shots and how well you hunt, rather than the gun used.

MCgunner
September 28, 2007, 12:09 AM
You should thy the 125grn ballistic tip!


Thanks. I will do that. I know ballistic tips work fantastic at lower velocities. I shoot a 150 at about 2100 out of my contender and it's KILLER. Also, Barnes X bullets expand at low velocity rather well and PENETRATE well. I was thinking a Barnes in 120 or so grains might work on hogs. I've got my SKS set up to accept a red spotlight for night hog hunting, just ain't got the desire to stay up at night sitting in a stand. I'm more of a day person. But, I figure that'd be a good use for the gun since it's not really terribly accurate or effective out past 200 yards.

jcord
September 28, 2007, 10:06 AM
I have nothing against hunting with an AK, except mine has an awful trigger pull. I like a nice crisp trigger on my hunting tools.

I believe an AK would be significantly more accurate with good trigger parts.

MCgunner
September 28, 2007, 12:03 PM
I have nothing against hunting with an AK, except mine has an awful trigger pull. I like a nice crisp trigger on my hunting tools.

I believe an AK would be significantly more accurate with good trigger parts.

That's another good point. The SKS's triggers are pretty crappy, too, lots of creep. My hunting rifles are set at 3 very crisp lbs and break like the proverbial glass rod.

Lichter
September 28, 2007, 12:29 PM
i don't know if it's legal in the state of WI but i have seen some folks hunt with a full size ak47 before... i keep hearing people say the shot limit in WI deer hunting is five shots.

I thought Wisconsin limits you to five round magazines, but I couldn't find where they spelled it out in the regulations.
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/regs/Deer07.pdf

trigga
September 28, 2007, 01:07 PM
same here, i can't seem to fine it anywhere on the dnr site or the books. i remember my first year i hunted with my uncle's m1 carbine. it was a 30cal 15 round i believe. my dad said it wasn't allowed but he let me hunt with it anyways.

ArmedBear
September 28, 2007, 01:18 PM
These days, DNR is probably a tad more vigilant and fines are higher.

Our local fishcops have checked our bags and guns, and we were just packing up and getting ready to leave the field. They were nice and polite, but they were not shy about enforcing the law. The fines, as I understand it, can be pretty high. A lot higher than the price of a 5-round magazine.

Tully M. Pick
September 28, 2007, 01:31 PM
I've got a call into the DNR main office in Madison right now regarding this. I called their customer service, who transferred me over to law enforcement, who had a recorded message suggesting that I call customer service.

If they call me back I'll ask about magazine limits during deer season, since I couldn't find anything in the regulations, either.

Tully M. Pick
October 1, 2007, 01:44 PM
Patti from Wisconsin DNR Law Enforcement returned my call this morning and said that there is no limit on how many rounds you can have in a magazine while deer hunting. Waterfowl has a three round limit, but there is no max for deer hunting.

Repeat - there is no maximum limit on how many rounds you can have in a magazine while deer hunting in Wisconsin.

Regolith
October 1, 2007, 04:23 PM
Repeat - there is no maximum limit on how many rounds you can have in a magazine while deer hunting in Wisconsin

Fixed. Just in case someone from a state that DOES have magazine restrictions for deer hunting reads that and mistakingly thinks he's good to go with his 30 round mag. ;)

aerod1
October 1, 2007, 06:15 PM
There is nothing wrong with using an AK for hunting. My best friend hunts with his AR-15 every year. It is perfectly acceptable in Texas.

Tully M. Pick
October 1, 2007, 06:16 PM
Repeat - there is no maximum limit on how many rounds you can have in a magazine while deer hunting in Wisconsin

Good catch. I'll edit my other post to match.

olhippie
October 2, 2007, 08:25 PM
...I have an AK 47 that is certainly accurate enough within it's ranging ability, and has sufficent power to take whitetail humanely with well placed shots, but I've never used it deer hunting. I prefer my CZ527 carbine mini-Mauser in the AK round, when hunting with that caliber. The little CZ is extremely accurate (under minute of angle at 100 yards),and has a Leupold 4X rimfire special scope that provides superior sighting with my old eyes. It is a fun gun that is barely cracking 6 pounds with the scope aboard, shooting S&B 123 grain soft point ammo it is suitable out to 150 yards or a bit more. The AK is heavier, and lacks the feel and balance of a fine sporting arm. Nothing wrong ethicaly in using it I believe, but there are better choices, I believe as well!

jon_in_wv
May 20, 2010, 12:18 PM
Yesterday I shot a 2" five shot group and 1.5" four shot groups with my Saiga AK and a Bushnell red dot. This was with surplus ammo. If I reloaded for it I could probably do better. I would think that would do for deer.

UpTheIrons
May 20, 2010, 03:35 PM
there is no maximum limit on how many rounds you can have in a magazine while deer hunting in Wisconsin.

Thank you for getting the "official word."

I went 'round and 'round with my dad on this, too. He insisted that one could not have more than 5 rounds in a rifle for deer hunting. Of course, this is after years of him hunting with a Winchester '94 (which I now use often).

After I showed him in the Texas Parks and Wildlife rules and regs book that the only magazine restriction in Texas is 3 shotshells for migratory waterfowl, and the only restriction for Whitetail is a centerfire round (yes, technically the 5.7x28mm is legal - though I'd never recommend it), he grudgingly admitted that it must be Colorado that only allows 5 - he goes elk hunting nearly every year.

That rulebook is your friend - you should get one for free when you buy your hunting license, and the regs should also be posted on your state's DNR/PWD website.

UpTheIrons
May 20, 2010, 03:36 PM
Oh, geez - I just realized I replied to a zombie thread.

I hope I'm not infected... :eek:

RangerHAAF
May 20, 2010, 03:56 PM
IMO it is the greatest battle rifle ever created and I use mine to hunt deer. I've taken down four of them between 25 to 80 yards using Wolf hollowpoints. They come into their best form in the southern woodlands.

Radium
May 20, 2010, 04:42 PM
now i get about 2-4moa with my ****ty surplus ammo and irons.

after i get sum lapua ammo and a scope if it shoots under 2moa im going to take my baby out.

jon_in_wv
May 20, 2010, 06:17 PM
I think most people shoot an AK with the irons and assume the rifle is only capable of a certain accuraccy rather than THEY are only capable of a certain accuracy. The AK doesn't have optimal sights or a nice rail like a flat top AR but it more capable than the rumors. People say 5 moa at best, whatever.

HGUNHNTR
May 20, 2010, 08:59 PM
I dont' know of many archery shooters that can shoot 5moa at 100 yards, and bows are still considered humane tools for dispatching game.

As long as you hunt within your firearms capability and obey all neccesary game laws you are A OK!

oneounceload
May 20, 2010, 11:17 PM
If an AK isn't accurate enough to hunt deer with then smooth bore shotguns should be illegal for hunting whitetail

Most good slug guns shoot 2 MOA, not 5-6

I dont' know of many archery shooters that can shoot 5moa at 100 yards, and bows are still considered humane tools for dispatching game

Since most bow hunters shoot at 35 yards, not 100 your point is moot

As to mag capacity - many states do limit capacity to 5 - if yours does not fine - if you need that many, perhaps you should practice more though

Clipper
May 20, 2010, 11:57 PM
I had a WASR 10...Put a Drag style buttstock on it, a Cheaper than Dirt rail mount, NC Star steel rings and a BSA 3-9x and a CDNN 5-round mag. Off the rest, it would shoot Wolf HP into 1.5MOA...I think it would be adequate for deer. Blanket "AKs are 5MOA guns" statements lack credibility. The lousy iron sights on AKs are usually the culprit.

jon_in_wv
May 21, 2010, 09:43 AM
Most good slug guns shoot 2 MOA, not 5-6

Since many AKs will shoot much better the 5-6 MOA claims are getting a little tired out. Why do you guys keep trying to promote this idea when its obviously not true? Perhaps some are that bad, I'm sure many other rifles are too, but the fact is that many will do much, much better. Read some of the above posts and you'll see guys reporting 1.5 to 2 MOA. That is more than accurate enough for deer.

trickyasafox
May 21, 2010, 09:53 AM
not sure on the mag restrictions in wi, but The rifle should be good to go. If hunting out your way is anything like it is by me, 100 yards is about the longest shot you'll ever take.

UpTheIrons
May 21, 2010, 12:30 PM
As to mag capacity - many states do limit capacity to 5 - if yours does not fine - if you need that many, perhaps you should practice more though

When is this ridiculous straw man argument going to go away?

OP said nothing of "needing" more than 5 rounds - simply that the equipment he had on hand didn't match a possible 5-round max regulation (that thankfully doesn't exist).

I don't "need" more than 1 round per deer, either, but I still carry extras in my Model '94. I assume most hunters have their 5 round magazines topped off, too. Sure, there may be guys who need to practice more - but that's not the issue here.

And while a 20 round mag may not be practical, if I'm in the stand (with a hi-cap capable firearm) and a couple of coyotes wander by (which has been known to happen) you can bet your sweet bippy that I'm going to unload on them as needed.

Yes, I also plan on buying an AK and and AR-10 and using them for deer hunting, should they show themselves capable within my range limitations in the Texas Hill Country. Will I "need" a 20 round mag? Of course not.

I don't "need" a Corvette either, but it sure would make the commute a lot more fun.

Thank you. I feel much better now that I've had a chance to rant.

HGUNHNTR
May 21, 2010, 12:54 PM
Since most bow hunters shoot at 35 yards, not 100 your point is moot

No in fact my point is not moot, and you missed it entirely. My point is, if your rifle only shoots 6 moa, shoot within the limits of that rifle. In other words limit your shots to archery distance.

I hunt with a handgun that I cannot shoot 5 moa at 100 yards with, however it makes a fine tool for 30 yard shots with open sights.

This is a very valid point.

Sheesh, I guess AK's are only tools of war and have no place in civilized society. *heavy sarcasm*

Will I "need" a 20 round mag? Of course not.

No kidding, I don't even "need" to hunt. Its way more expensive than buying meat at the store.

Art Eatman
May 21, 2010, 05:19 PM
I sorta doubt the OP is around to learn all this good stuff.

Nuthin' like necrothreadia...

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