Proper method to acheive "full magazine +1 in the chamber" status?


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.455_Hunter
September 26, 2007, 06:33 PM
What is the accepted method for getting an autoloader into the loaded chamber/full magazine carry status?

This how I do it with my unloaded Micro 1911:

1. Insert full magazine
2. Rack slide
3. Put on safety
4. Remove magazine
5. Top-off magazine w/ loose round
6. Re-insert full magazine
7. Holster weapon

What proccedures do other people use?

Thanks,

Hunter

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Black Majik
September 26, 2007, 06:42 PM
I do the same.

Ghost Walker
September 26, 2007, 06:46 PM
I don't load a full magazine behind a chambered round. Too high a probability that the pistol will jam on the first shot; but, you do whatever you want. ;)

Larryect
September 26, 2007, 06:46 PM
This is usually what I do. But, if you have trouble handing all those things at the same time, or don't have a place to safely lay down the pistol, you could holster the weapon after racking the slide - then release the maagazine from the holstered gun, top it off and reinsert in the gun.

Anna's Dad
September 26, 2007, 07:03 PM
I just tip up the barrel put a round right in the chamber. At least that's what I do with my Beretta Tomcat :D

Jim Watson
September 26, 2007, 07:43 PM
I agree with Ghost Walker on a carry gun. Insert magazine, rack slide, holster.

For IDPA I use a Barney mag. Insert old magazine with a round or two, rack slide, perform a Tactical Reload or Reload with Retention, and holster.

usp9
September 26, 2007, 07:44 PM
I load one or two rounds in the mag, chamber one, decock, holster, finish loading the mag. None of my carry guns have a safety. I do the one or two bit because it's easier on the gun to strip a early round. Not a big deal though, more a habit.

skers69
September 26, 2007, 07:47 PM
I personally do not top off my mags. I have a CZ PCR...and feel like 14 rounds is plenty.

Boarhunter
September 26, 2007, 07:48 PM
.455_Hunter,

Fairly standard IDPA practice is to use a "barney" mag (a magazine loaded with only a single cartridge) to load the chamber and then follow it with a fully-loaded magazine. It is quick and saves fumbling with loose rounds when the Safety Officer instructs the shooter to "load and make ready."

Boarhunter

Boarhunter
September 26, 2007, 07:51 PM
Jim Watson beats me to the punch yet again. His times are always better than mine....

Boarhunter

glockman19
September 27, 2007, 01:45 AM
What proccedures do other people use?

The same one you describe.

S&Wfan
September 27, 2007, 02:16 AM
Looks good, but I don't usually load a full mag . . . for I want that slide to go fulling into battery with gusto . . . just like it does on its own after it goes "BANG."

So, I l just insert a magazine with one . . . or just a few rounds in the gun and then SLINGSHOT the slide forcefully back and then release it in one quick motion so the slide will slam forward with as much velocity as I can get out of it.

Accuracy shooting groups will tighten up, since the first round will impact pretty much where the others do. Just easing the slide forward slowly is just the opposite. This is the worst way to chamber a round.

T.

1911 guy
September 27, 2007, 09:03 AM
I "barney up" when I load. I've yet to have a failure to feed or eject with a full mag below a loaded chamber. I'm about 10,000 rounds into this particular pistol, so I imagine it would have shown up by now if it was going to.

Obiwan
September 27, 2007, 09:06 AM
"shown up by now if it was going to"

Downloading mags is generally in response to variation in the magazines...although a problematic mag catch can sometimes be to blame

So...it could still rear its ugly head

1911 guy
September 27, 2007, 09:10 AM
Famous last words, aren't they? :D

I've got an even dozen mags I rotate through for CCW and shoot fairly often, so any problems should begin slowly (rotation of mags) and hopefully show up at the range. Again, famous last words.

Kinda like Custer. "Relax guys, there are no indians within miles!"

lanternlad1
September 27, 2007, 09:23 AM
I did see a guy with a 1911 lock open the chamber, insert a cartridge into the breech, close the chamber and insert mag once. All the fumbling around made me worried he was going to give someone lead poisoning by accident.

1911 guy
September 27, 2007, 09:25 AM
The weapon was designed to feed from the mag. Kinda hard on the extractor to jump the rim on a regular basis. It can and will, but I'd prefer to break things by honest use than mistreatment.

usp9
September 27, 2007, 01:41 PM
S&Wfan said,

Looks good, but I don't usually load a full mag . . . for I want that slide to go fulling into battery with gusto . . . just like it does on its own after it goes "BANG."

So, I l just insert a magazine with one . . . or just a few rounds in the gun and then SLINGSHOT the slide forcefully back and then release it in one quick motion so the slide will slam forward with as much velocity as I can get out of it.


How does your method get more force or velocity out of the recoil spring. Please explain.

Hauptmann
September 27, 2007, 02:09 PM
What you described is the recommended method of loading a pistol in every manual you will come across. I recommend that you continue to do it this way.

One way that you DON'T want to do it is locking open the action(no magazine), manually inserting a cartridge into the chamber, and slamming the action onto the cartridge. Some pistols can handle this kind of abuse, but a lot of them can't. The classic feeding mechanism is designed to strip a cartridge off of a magazine, and as the slide closes the cartridge chambers and slides up the breech face and into the grip of the extractor. Most extractors are not designed to slam onto a cartridge rim and be forced out of the way so that the slide can close. The cartridge is designed to slide up the breech face and into the grip of the extractor without moving it but a fraction of an inch.

What you can do is manually insert a cartridge, and gently close the slide onto the cartridge. Then push on the extractor pivot with your finger and the extractor will push out just enough to allow the action to lock into place. This will keep you from possibly damaging your extractor. On an internal extractor, you might be able to lock the slide into place by putting a little hand pressure on the slide to force it shut. This will also reduce the likely hood of damaging the extractor. A broken extractor will disable your pistol until you can get it replaced. That or you insert a cartridge one at a time and physically pull out the empties as you reload.

Lonestar49
September 27, 2007, 02:14 PM
Quote:I don't load a full magazine behind a chambered round. Too high a probability that the pistol will jam on the first shot; but, you do whatever you want. ;)
-------------
...

I agree here, as it has happened numerous times with my Sig P232 380, after the first shot, with either FMJ or JHP and, it happened, after the first shot with my Colt Defender 45, with either FMJ or JHP, with one chambered, and full magazines.

And it is after the first shot, any, and every, time it has occurred, at the range, with clean, well lubed, new ammo, with both guns.

It has never happened with my Beretta, Sig P229, P220, or Springfield EMP 9mm. But the principal remains the same, maxed out pressure on the magazine spring load, and I'm not willing to risk a first fired shot, then jam, for the one extra bullet, vs 7, 8, 9, or 10 good shots, every time, with any of my HD/SD guns.

My other thought, besides the maxed pressure on the top full round below the chambered round, on the magazine spring, is simply, if one cannot handle a real-time need of ones gun in a HD/SD situation with, as in my case, 7 rounds, or any of the other guns, 7-8 rounds/45's, 10 rounds with Sig 9mm, Beretta 40cal, 9 rounds EMP 9mm, with a full back-up magazine, then it probably wouldn't have mattered that I had one round extra, to start off with, vs the possibly, and the "thought of knowing" that I hope the gun wouldn't or doesn't jam after the first shot, because IMHO, the first 2 -4 shots are gonna tell the story, vs a jam after the first shot..

Stick with normal loads for your gun/s and that possibility, and the negative thought, "could it happen", will not come into a situation of "playing for real."


LS


PS. I was having a, what is termed by 1911Tuner, a bolt-over misfeed with my Colt Defender, and it was clean, and lubed, but 1911Tuner said, it was either because of the slide not not making full travel, making for a mag zine timing issue, and to make sure that the rails were "well lubed", or it was a return spring issue. So yesterday, I took my Colt Defender to the range, clean, rdy, and just before leaving the house, I put some extra oil down the rails, letting gravity take it down, cycled the slide a few times, and went to the range. It shot, without one feed problem, 100 rounds of FMJ range ammo, along with 20 185gr JHP's, and 7 rounds of each, I shot one handed, not limp wresting, but that was mentioned by many, as one of the Defenders problems with jamming.

She shot everything, every time, on target. So research your gun/s, find out which ones are forgiving in the running on the dry side, vs the ones that need to be lubed/wet, to function at the 100% level, as all it takes with a non-forgiving gun, is a tad too dry and you will get some kind of problem, whether a feeding issue/jam, or a chambering problem.

And one does not need either of these, if he knows the plus and minuses of each gun in lubrication's needed, and full loads + 1 for a max loads, and what could happen if one of these demanding areas is not quite right.. non-forgiving.

Go for the "forgiving" road-of-thought IMHO, and you'll be better-off for it.


PSS.. thank you 1911Tuner, for the right call, as confidence/knowledge is a "wonderful friend."

BsChoy
September 27, 2007, 03:21 PM
In law enforcement circles the "administrative reload" is:

Unholster an empty weapon
Insert full mag
rack
(if using a weapon with a decock lever you decock and holster)
reholster
take mag out of gun
top off
reinsert mag
good to go

bb21
September 27, 2007, 03:51 PM
Wow! I am a little surprised by the number of people who have posted that don't carry a full mag +1. I personally can not agree with that for a few reasons, but # 1 if your carrying a single stack that really makes a difference in capacity and if you are that worried you should just carry a revolver, once again just my opinion. If you have had issues in the past you should probably consider new mags or a new carry gun. I am not in Law Enforcement (yet), nor have a served in the Military, but I would assume that neither advise to carry anything less that a full mag +1 in the chamber. I personally do much like what has been repeated in the original post, or I will already have a mag inserted, rack the slide, insert a new mag, and then add one to the original mag. I would suggest that at the range you shoot plenty of full mag+1 while practicing and if you have failures then get a new mag. Your method is fine .455_Hunter.
Good Luck and Be Safe!

B. Adams
September 27, 2007, 03:56 PM
I do it pretty much the same, but slightly different. I lock the slide open, insert a magazine, release the slide, then drop the mag and top it off.

My reasoning for doing this is that it doesn't damage the top round in the magazine as much, since the slide doesn't scrape over it unless you're actually shooting the gun. This would only be an issue if you were unloading and reloading the same rounds fairly often, which I suppose is why I do it that way.

fletcher
September 27, 2007, 04:00 PM
I use the same method as the OP.

CountGlockula
September 27, 2007, 04:21 PM
This how I do it with my unloaded Glock:

-1. Double check weapon is unloaded
1. Insert full magazine
2. Rack slide
3. Put on safety by keeping finger off the trigger
4. Remove magazine
5. Top-off magazine w/ loose round
6. Re-insert full magazine
7. Rock 'N Roll

mgregg85
September 27, 2007, 09:41 PM
Probably 90% of the time I shoot at the range I will shoot with a full magazine and one in the chamber. I've never had a single jam or malfunction because of this. I've put maybe 2000 through my XD now, not that much but it's never hiccuped because of being fully loaded.

Lonestar49
September 27, 2007, 11:32 PM
Quote: Wow! I am a little surprised by the number of people who have posted that don't carry a full mag +1. I personally can not agree with that for a few reasons, but # 1 if your carrying a single stack that really makes a difference in capacity and if you are that worried you should just carry a revolver, once again just my opinion.
----------------

All of us? lol, there is only 3 of us vs the rest of the posters.. ;)

Well, some opinions are right, and some are wrong, and we all have to live with our decisions.

But if I pull any of my guns out, it's a good bet that the target is a BG, within 16ft of me, and I have (hopefully) the element of surprise and have a very confident feeling (10,000 rounds of practice) earned in accuracy. I'll get 2 in the BG COM, with 8 rounds left, maybe only 6 with the P220, or 5 with the Defender, 7 with the EMP 9mm, and still have enough for another BG, even if I need to use, next to all, for suppression and put in a back up clip.

Then if they want me, by then, I should be holed up well enough to make the 911 phone call and wait them out, after all, they now have to come and get me, and get thru some 12 more rounds, from one direction, and on a bad day, 1 extra bullet, as I said, is not gonna turn the tide IMO. It's shot placement/s fast, and SA, working as practiced, or else there will be a trail of BS behind me if I'm just fooling myself about what I have done to get to this point in my shooting skills. I know, and feel, the truth, and I can live with that.

I make it a point to stay away from war-zones as part of my ongoing SA, nor do I think in terms of a "gun fight".. I do not drive myself, put myself, in such crime ridden war zones, not in the last 40yrs, nor the next 30yrs, not one bullet fired in fear of my life, at any real BG's.

That's why I like the saying ~ Fate is the Hunter ~

Just don't put us few (3) in such a sinking boat.. lol Or in a jammed rudder incident, like the Bismark.. Who would have guessed? It "just happened" that moment, that day, that fight, and they went down because of a simple, unliklely, jam.. :)

Revolver? 6 shots only, not in my opinion, DA pulls, slower to reload, IMHO.

We must agree there.. lol



LS

OAKVILLE SHOOTER
September 28, 2007, 10:16 PM
I do it pretty much the same, but slightly different. I lock the slide open, insert a magazine, release the slide, then drop the mag and top it off.

Been doing it this way for years in various guns. Haven't had any problems thus far.

nwilliams
September 28, 2007, 11:58 PM
I'm another one of those guys that doesn't top off my extra mags, I always leave them one short. When i prepare my gun for carry (M&P40) I do the following....

• Top off the mag with 14 rds of .40
• Pull back the slide and lock it
• Insert the mag
• Point the muzzle towards a wall corner
• Reach over the top with my left hand and rack the slide back and then follow it forward giving it a little extra momentum forward to make sure that top round gets stripped off the mag and the slide is fully closed.
• Finally holster

This is the way I was trained to do it by my instructors over the years, I never top off my carry mags, I never use the slide release to chamber a round. Personally I think 13 rounds of .40 is sufficient for me, I've had enough training to feel confident that 13 as opposed to 14 is enough to get the job done. I feel better having a little play in the mag spring so that in a tactical reload with a round still possibly in the chamber I don't have to worry about the mag not getting fully inserted or worry that slide won't strip the top round off.

Like I said this is the way I do it, not saying its the right way, just my way. I've personally never had an issue with fully loaded mags and for years I did carry them fully loaded and at the range loaded them fully. However over the past few years I've had some excellent training from some top notch instructors that have changed my way of thinking. I trust what they say, that's why I pay 'em the big bucks for their instruction.

HOWEVER....I will admit that when I carry my 1911 (very rarely) I do carry it with fully loaded mags, but I don't carry it +1 in the gun. My Colt has 8rd mags, I carry 8rds in the gun and two extra mags with 8 in each, this is the same with my Makarov that I often use for summer carry. However with hi-cap guns I always load the gun with a full mag and carry my spares -1.

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