Galyans turning bad?


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H Romberg
July 10, 2003, 08:06 AM
Hey guys, Anybody know what's up with Galyans? I got a message from the Virginia Libertarians that says they're building a dossier on anyone purchasing ammo. I thought we might pull an applebee's on them.
Here's my response to the Linertarians.

I submitted the following at
www.galyans.com/stores_frameset.html (http://www.galyans.com/stores_frameset.html)
I doubt I'll get a response, but if enough people send similar messages they might change their policy. I'll post this on thehighroad.org as well, and see if we can't do to Galyans what we did to Applebee's. Have fun, but be polite, and focus on your hope to continue shopping there if possible.

Dear Sir,
I am a regular customer of your Fairfax store, and hope to remain so. I'm writing to request clarification of your corporate policy with regards to ammunition sales. According to an acquaintance of mine, (see message below) your company has begun maintaining personal information of customers as a prerequisite to sales of ammunition. I hope this is not the case, as most gun owners value their privacy. Given the fact that guns are theft prone items, discretion is always in a gun owner' interest. I understand that this web-site is not intended for two way communication, but I need to contact the company rather than an individual store. Please let me know if it is Galyans' policy to maintain this information. I hope this is a local and reversible policy decision on the part of your Gaithersburg store, as I cannot in good conscience, continue to patronize establishments that see all gun owners as potential criminals. I look forward to hearing from you, and thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Henry Romberg
romberg@calibresys.com


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:49 PM
To: LPVA-Forum@yahoogroups.com; LPVA Forum; LPPWC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LPVA-Forum] Re: [NoVA PinkPistols] Galyans Tracking Ammo Sales in Gaithersburg Maryland

Does anyone shop at Galyans? Are they tracking ammo sales in VA too?


> > > Hello everyone, I attempted to purchase some 9mm
> > ammo
> > > this past Saturday at Galyans in Gaithersburg Md.
> > and
> > > was told I would have to produce
> > > a license have my information taken down and then
> > sign
> > > next to my information that I am of legal age to
> > have
> > > ammunition released to me. I asked to speak with
> > > management and was informed that the list was a
> > new
> > > corporate venture to cooperate with law
> > enforcement
> > > agencies but that the list goes nowhere, which is
> > of
> > > course is a contradiction to the aforementioned. I
> > > will
> > > visit some of the other Galyans and see if matters
> > are
> > > handled in a similar manner.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > John


www.galyans.com/stores_frameset.html (http://www.galyans.com/stores_frameset.html)

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fatboyclone
July 10, 2003, 09:37 AM
i just bought a bunch of .45 from Galyans last month, i wasn't asked to fill anything out or sign anything. it could be a new corporate policy. i'll have to swing through there tonight and see whats happening.

El Tejon
July 10, 2003, 09:55 AM
Huh? Not around here.

Sure this just isn't a Ol' Virginny thang or just that store specific?:confused:

gun-fucious
July 10, 2003, 10:22 AM
the originating item was from a maryland TRT member that bought ammo at the Gaithersburgh MD store.

We have been informed its a local voluntary program with the police

We are wondering if its a policy at the Fair Oaks, VA, Galayans to...

Mike Irwin
July 10, 2003, 10:55 AM
Same here, just bought ammo at the Fair Oaks store. No request for information.

12 Volt Man
July 10, 2003, 11:26 AM
I have bought the 100 round value packs of Winchester 9mm ammo there. They have not asked for any of the info you describe. I have had issues with them though.
I noticed a sign in there that said 110% price guarantee. It said that they will beat competetors prices by 10%. Everytime I ask them to match the Wally World price, they do it with a pissed off attitude. Plus they only match it, not beat it.

MBG
July 10, 2003, 11:38 AM
Bought two boxes of 45 LC this week at Fair Lakes. The only thing they asked for was money at the register.

Probably one of those coerced voluntary programs, in MD.

Marty

cordex
July 10, 2003, 11:44 AM
Hmmm ... if we can get confirmation on this, I might drop by their corporate HQ and see if I can't talk to someone about it.

Bought some .308 on the 4th and they didn't ask me for anything but cash.

gun-fucious
July 10, 2003, 11:55 AM
i will swing by the G-burgh Galayans and confirm the policy

my NRA contact says:
There is no need to investigate Galyans - this is already established as a Montgomery County Police program. It is modeled after the Baltimore County program which has been in place over four years.

Chris Rhines
July 10, 2003, 07:11 PM
I'll also swing by and check this out - I bought a brick of .22LR two weeks ago and had no trouble.

- Chris

Standing Wolf
July 10, 2003, 08:43 PM
...this is already established as a Montgomery County Police program. It is modeled after the Baltimore County program which has been in place over four years.

Sounds like a program to pull the plug on.

NavyDoc
July 10, 2003, 08:46 PM
I tried to buy some 9mm, 45, and 357 at the Gaithersburg store. They asked to copy down all my dl info in this big ledger they had on the counter. I walked out with my cash and went to Atlantic Guns.

Mike Irwin
July 10, 2003, 08:54 PM
What if one refuses to give the information?

Since it's not required by law, and is only a voluntary program dreamed up by the police (obviously to replace the ammo recordkeeping requirement that died in 1986), can Galyans refuse to sell ammo to you if you refuse to provide the information?

Fly320s
July 10, 2003, 09:53 PM
Well, I was going to buy some ammo from Galyan's in Louisville, KY about two weeks ago. They have a great selection of shotgun ammo.

But since my wife was with me and she wanted to look at a few more stores in the mall, I decided to wait until we were leaving to buy the ammo. I didn't want to carry around a dozen boxes of shotgun ammo for a few hours.

Instead, I walked over to the gun counter to look at their selection, which was pretty good. The salesman told me all about their current 12 months-same-as-cash-program. Then he asked if I was a Kentucky resident. I told him that I am not. Well, the salesman said that he can sell me rifles but not handguns, which is essentially correct. I asked if Galyan's would ship a handgun to my local FFL in TN to process. He said no. Then he said that according to Galyan's store policy he is not allowed to even let me handle a handgun unless I am a KY resident.

Suffice it to say I didn't buy my 12 boxes of 12 gauge from them.

campergeek
July 10, 2003, 11:47 PM
I may be out on a limb here, but for some reason I've never really felt good about Galyans. When they opened a store in St. Louis I went by out of curiosity and looked at their camping gear (I do some backpacking). I was underimpressed with their selection, as their spectrum of merchandise seemed too broad to serve any specific target group in particular. My overall impression is that Galyans tries to be too much: a facade of a camping, hiking, extreme sports, hunting, shooting, fishing, etc. store that at it's heart (literally the center of the store) is really just trying to sell trendy clothes to the hip "in crowd". As such, I would only expect them to follow whatever PC trends keep them in the good graces of their trendy market group, while retaining the outward appearance of serving a customer base interested in the wild outdoors.

They keep opening stores, so it must work for them. Around here, I'd much rather go to Bass Pro shops for my hunting gear, local gun shops (or online) for other shooting needs, and REI, local outfitters, or online for camping gear. Galyans just didn't appeal to me.

gun-fucious
July 10, 2003, 11:51 PM
according to their website:
http://www.Galyans.com/
the G-burg store is the only one in MD

Washingtonian Center
2 Grand Corner Avenue
Gaithersburg, MD 20878
(301) 947-0200
Store Hours
Mon-Fri: 9:30am-9:30pm
Sat: 9am-9:30pm
Sun: 10am-8pm


http://www.Galyans.com/contact.html
Please tell us what you think about Galyan's: our web site, our products, our people, or anything else that comes to mind. We welcome all of your comments and suggestions.

If you have a question or inquiry that requires a response, you must contact a Galyan's store.
Due to the volume of messages left here, personal responses are not sent, however the information is acted upon.

Cosmoline
July 10, 2003, 11:56 PM
Wasn't that the French cult that claimed to be able to clone humans?

Never heard of 'em here.

cpileri
July 11, 2003, 04:30 AM
I was wondering when I would see your post! When i first read this thread i thought, "Hey, mu buddy NavyDoc tried at the Galyan's in Gaithersburg and..."
C-

michiganfan
July 11, 2003, 06:44 AM
Just bougta few boxes of 357 Sig and all they wanted was cash.

gun-fucious
July 11, 2003, 09:43 AM
i would not be surprised if they are being pushed around by the uplifters.

There is a "park" right next to the store that could easily be a "place of public assembly" within 100 yards of the store.

Montgomery County Code


Part II. Local Laws, Ordinances, Resolutions, Etc.

Chapter 57. Weapons.


Sec. 57-11._ Firearms in or near places of public assembly.

_ _ _(a)_ _ _A person must not sell, transfer, possess, or transport a handgun, rifle, or shotgun, or ammunition for these firearms, in or within 100 yards of a place of public assembly.


Sec. 57-12. Sale of fixed ammunition.

_ _ _(a)_ _ _Legislative intent. The purpose of this section is to provide support to state and local law enforcement officials in their efforts against crime and violence by placing controls on the flow of dangerous ammunition, in addition to those provided by federal law, and to encourage compliance with the state police department's program of voluntary firearm registration. It is not the purpose of this section to place any undue or unnecessary restrictions or burdens on law-abiding citizens with respect to the acquisition, possession, or use of firearms appropriate to the purpose of hunting, trapshooting, target shooting, personal protection, or any other lawful activity, or to discourage or eliminate the private ownership or use of firearms by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes. It is not the purpose of this section to create, nor does it permit the creation of, any separate system of county registration of firearms or ammunition, or the levying of any county fee in connection with any registration of firearms or ammunition. It is specifically not the intent of this section to serve as a revenue generating measure.

_ _ _(b)_ _ _Registration of ammunition dealers. Any ammunition dealer (as defined in 18 United States Code, section 921 et seq.) who conducts business in Montgomery County is required to register with the Montgomery County department of police by maintaining on file with that department, at all times, a valid, current copy of his federal ammunition dealer's license.

_ _ _(c)_ _ _Conditions for sale. No ammunition dealer may sell fixed ammunition to any other person, unless:

_ _ __ _ _(1)_ _ _The sale is made in person;

_ _ __ _ _(2)_ _ _The purchaser exhibits, at the time of sale, a valid registration certificate or, in the case of a nonresident, proof that the firearm is lawfully possessed in the jurisdiction where the purchaser resides;

_ _ __ _ _(3)_ _ _The fixed ammunition to be sold is of the same caliber or gauge as the firearm described in the registration certificate, or other proof in the case of a nonresident; and

_ _ __ _ _(4)_ _ _The purchaser signs a receipt for the ammunition which shall be maintained by the licensed dealer for a period of one (1) year from the date of sale.

_ _ _(d)_ _ _Exceptions. The provisions of this section shall not apply to the sale of fixed ammunition:

_ _ __ _ _(1)_ _ _Which is suitable for use only in rifles or shotguns generally available in commerce, or to the sale of component parts of these types of ammunition;

_ _ __ _ _(2)_ _ _To any person licensed to possess fixed ammunition under an act of Congress and the law of the jurisdiction where the person resides or conducts business; or

_ _ __ _ _(3)_ _ _To any law enforcement officer of federal, state, local or any other governmental entity, if the officer has in his possession a statement from the head of his agency stating that the fixed ammunition is to be used in the officer's official duties.

_ _ _(e)_ _ _Penalties. Any ammunition dealer who sells fixed ammunition in violation of the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a class C violation, pursuant to section 1-19 of the Montgomery County Code, punishable only by a civil penalty in the amount of fifteen dollars ($15.00).

_ _ _(f)_ _ _Exception for incorporated municipalities. This section shall not be effective in any incorporated municipality which by law has authority to enact a law on the same subject. If any such incorporated municipality adopts this section and requests the county to enforce the adopted provisions thereof within its corporate limits, the county may thereafter administer and enforce the same within the incorporated municipality. The county executive is authorized to enter into agreements with incorporated municipalities to enforce and administer the provisions so adopted and to collect the administrative costs of implementation from such municipalities. (1983 L.M.C., ch. 50,_§ 2.)_ _ _

_ _ _Editor’s note--The above section was held to be invalid by the Court of Appeals in Montgomery County, Maryland, et al. v. Atlantic Guns, Inc., et al., 302 Md. 540, 489 A.2d 1114 (1985)._ The above section is interpreted in Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission v. Elgin, 53 Md.App. 452, 454 A.2d 408 (1983).

Mike Irwin
July 11, 2003, 10:27 AM
It's a voluntary registration, but you have to have a registration certificate in order to legally purchase ammo for it?

H Romberg
July 11, 2003, 10:47 AM
Just got a reply from the GM down at the Fairfax store. Looks like a local thing, or a false alarm in Gaithersburg. Here's what I got, and my reply.


Thanks. That's what I hoped to hear.

-----Original Message-----
From: s13mgr [mailto:s13mgr@GALYANS.COM]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:25 AM
To: romberg@calibresys.com
Cc: Tiffany Stoner
Subject: Galyans reply

Mr. Romberg,


Hello, I am the General Manager at our Fairfax, Virginia location and we do not ask for an address when purchasing ammunition. We only ask for a state ID for the handling of a firearm or proof of age to purchase ammunition. We do not keep an address on file for anything except when a firearm is purchased. These issues mentioned are our company policy and I have no idea if the Maryland store is doing something different. If you have any further quesions, do not hesitate to call me at 703-803-0300. Thank you...

Chris Robertson
Store Manager
Fair Lakes #13
(703) 803-0300

gun-fucious
July 11, 2003, 11:18 AM
no false alarm its really going on at Galyans in Monkey county, MD

i wonder if Walmart is doing the same thing...

boltaction
July 11, 2003, 11:47 AM
Just bought 2 boxes each of 9mm and .38 at the Germantown MD WalMart, and was not asked to sign anything. Boycott galyans and buy at Walmart (support Gilbert and Atlantic Guns in Rockville, too). Hope no one thought I was kidding when I posted my location initially as "Police State of Maryland". Some shops are "brothers/sisters in freedom", others are conspirators in despotism; I was going to go to galyans to look at some 1911's I heard they had there - I might just do it, handle a few, show interest, and ask about their ammo policy - then politely walk out without saying another word.

cpileri
July 11, 2003, 03:53 PM
i like boltaction's idea. if about 10 or 20 guys over the weekend show interest in a firearm and skeedadle after asking about the ammo policy- maybe they'll get the message.

Then again, maybe their co-conspirators in law enforcement are subsidizing their loss of income.

C-

gun-fucious
July 11, 2003, 04:29 PM
lets see... i need a tent, a camp stove, a canoe, some roof rack adaptors, a new fully suspended mountainbike and a box of 22lr

El Tejon
July 11, 2003, 05:08 PM
Wonder what's going on over in Maryland? Must be a reflection of the culture out there over corporate policy? Although corporate policy is to make money and to do that you have to comply with all the silly laws there.

The Galyan brothers are from here. My first firearms as a child were purchased for me by my father at the original Plainfield, Indiana store many moons ago. I remember when they would have their bison cook outs and eat the critters the brothers killed out in the hairy-chested West.:)

Good times. Worked there thru undergrad. Hope they get this sorted out soon.

cpileri
July 11, 2003, 06:00 PM
To h3!! with Maryland.
I used to think it wasn't quite as bad as CA, a few less things banned, 20rd magazines OK, etc.
Well, as far as other laws, etc it is much more of a police-state than CA as a whole. Now, I haven't lived in CA for over 7 years, so maybe i am wrong but I keep up with my family there and I don't think i am.
They have a much stronger presence of civil liberty protectors out there.
Here in MD, maybe its the proximity to DC, i dunno; but people here for the most part seem to LIKE all the govt control, and "protection" -
at least the gov is being consistent with human nature: they are watching their own backyard.
I suppose if the whole country revolted, they could maintain their safety zone physically by having MD/VA etc most tightly protected by homelandsecurtiybs.

I ramble...
C-

gun-fucious
July 11, 2003, 10:02 PM
more likely than not Galyans is being squeezed by the MC police

if it was a standard county policy then the gun shops and walmart would be following the protocall

This Galyans was burgled for the handguns this winter

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11371&highlight=Galyans

Archer
July 12, 2003, 12:38 AM
FWIW, deliberately wasting the time of the minimum wage guy behind the counter at Galyans so you can "send a message" wastes your time more than his. After all, he's getting paid one way or another.

Galyans is an OK place if you know what you want, but their people are sparse and not very knowledgable. Probably keeps their overhead low.

DNA
July 12, 2003, 05:52 AM
Walmart in Pomona,CA does the same. Last time I went in for a brick of .22s and they wanted to take down CDL info and what type of ammo purchased. Something about Pomona PD and procedure, needless to say, I walked out and went to the Walmart in Chino Hills and got ammo.

Dan

gun-fucious
July 12, 2003, 09:35 AM
how can the police have a registration procedure that is not in the county code?

The standing Law was found invalid in court

Chris Rhines
July 12, 2003, 04:44 PM
Okay, I just got back from the Galyans at Washingtonian Square. I needed some ammo, and wanted to see what was happening for myself.

I went into the store at just about 4:00pm, EST. Went over to the gun counter and spoke with a salesman named Dennis F. (according to his nametag.) I asked for a brick of CCI Standard Velocity .22LR. He handed me the ammo, put his commission tag on it, and wished me well. I was not required to show any identification or sign anything.

I took the ammo to the second floor checkout, paid with my debit card, and left. I did not have to sign anything except for the debit card reciept. Neither of the girls behind the counter asked me for ID.

To repeat: at no time was I required to show any ID, nor was I required to sign anything except for the debit card chit.


A couple of possibilities come to mind:
- There never was any ammo registration program in place.
- There was a registration program in place, but Galyans pulled the plug on it (maybe after word got back to corporate?)
- The registration program applies only to certain types/amounts of ammo, and 500 rounds of .22LR ain't it.

- Chris

gun-fucious
July 12, 2003, 05:19 PM
One of my TRTers made the initial report of the policy, so the first scenario is not it

its possible they felt some heat

Navy doc was asked to sign for pistol ammo this week

RepublicanMan
July 12, 2003, 06:26 PM
Of course by paying with your debit card you gave them all the information they would have wanted anyway since it's linked to your bank account which has it all in it............................................

Chris Rhines
July 12, 2003, 09:18 PM
g-f:

All I can say is that it definately did not happen to me. It's entirely possible that the GBurg Galyans felt the wind blowing against them and decided to circular-file the program. Who knows? Perhaps a brief apointment with the manager is in order. I need to stop back there anyhow (need a new Leatherman Squirt...)

rman:

While it is certainly possible that Galyans is running credit checks on all ammunition purchasers and passing the information on to the state po-pos, I don't see that as a likely possibility.

- Chris

bogie
July 14, 2003, 11:07 AM
Observations...

Bass Pro in St. Louis has everything sitting out, and you can help yourself.

Galyans in St. Louis has all the centerfire ammo back behind the counter. You have to bother the guy.

Bass Pro had maybe a dozen handguns, almost all revolvers, except for a few .22 Ruger autos...

Galyans had a whole buncha everything!

Didn't get "carded" on .45ACP ammo at either store.

ReadyontheRight
July 14, 2003, 01:48 PM
Galyan's in Bloomington, MN - a suburb on the south side of Minneapolis - has all the ammo and guns behind a counter. You have to find a clerk to get ammo for you or to look at a rifle. Clerks are hard to find and fairly un-knowledgable.

Galyan's in Minnetonka, MN -- a suburb about 7 miles away on the West side of Minneapolis -- has all their long guns out with trigger locks. All but pistol ammo is out to get yourself. The clerks are knowledgable about guns and hunting and usually right there to help you.

I suppose it's a mix of local ordinances and store management that make a good gun store.

Neither have lost my business by asking me to fill out an ammo form.

bogie
July 14, 2003, 02:12 PM
Oh yeah... at the Galyans, I had to restrain myself when I overhead the clerk tell another customer about how the .45ACP would knock a man off his feet even of you just winged 'em a little...

REALLY!

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