Massad Ayoob


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SIGfiend
September 30, 2007, 05:51 AM
I hear this guy's a real good gun issue writer. But curious, where was he born? Sounds a bit foreign.

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Josh Aston
September 30, 2007, 05:57 AM
nevermind

Nightcrawler
September 30, 2007, 06:21 AM
You can PM him and ask him yourself. He's a member here and posts from time to time. :cool:

Action_Can_Do
September 30, 2007, 07:17 AM
Really? I wonder if Mike Venturino or John Taffin or Jim Wilson are members.

cambeul41
September 30, 2007, 08:18 AM
My name came from the other side of one ocean or the other, too. I guess that it must sound a bit foreign.

1911Tuner
September 30, 2007, 08:26 AM
Ayoob's surname is Arabic...Lebanese...? Not sure. He's registered here under his name, but hasn't posted for a while. You may get a response through a PM.

mec
September 30, 2007, 08:27 AM
I believe he was born in New Hampshire. They had a jewelry business there. It was his dad who was an immigrant.

30 cal slob
September 30, 2007, 08:35 AM
father was syrian-born bedouin IIRC.

why is this being brought up? he's a good guy.

1911Tuner
September 30, 2007, 08:41 AM
Just FWIW...Mas isn't a practicing Muslim. He is frequently seen wolfin' down ham sandwiches and blowin' the froth off a mug of suds from time to time.

Geno
September 30, 2007, 08:47 AM
I eat a lot of foreign foods. My dad always told me you are what you eat. So, that must make me foreign. :neener: Lest we get too serious here.

Barbara
September 30, 2007, 09:01 AM
I think he's part of the great Mooslim conspiracy to better train Americans to gun fight. Sneaky bastages, they is.

:neener:

mec
September 30, 2007, 09:03 AM
He's been writing for the magazines for twenty something years and has some books out. When I went to the firstTexas Concealed Handgun Instructor school at the Department of Public Safety, the cirriculum sounded a lot like what Ayoob had been writing. The commandant of the DPS academy, like Ayoob, frequently acts as an expert witness in shooting trials.

After the program got underway, Ayoob was mentioned in the Dallas Morning News as having identified some key improvements to the training program.

thumbody
September 30, 2007, 09:15 AM
Really? I wonder if Mike Venturino or John Taffin or Jim Wilson are members

I haven't seen them, but Bart Skelton and Tom Gresham (Guntalk) are seen from time to time.

alucard0822
September 30, 2007, 09:16 AM
Issue writer? He is one of the most respected and knowlegeable Authorities on all things firearm and SD. Among other things he teaches one of the best self defense classes in the country, You can be one of the lucky few to attend for $800. My father is a 2nd time alum, hopefully I can attend soon.

and a little more about the legend himself
http://www.defenseassociates.com/lfi.htm

massad ayoob
September 30, 2007, 09:20 AM
Born here. Parents, too. All four grandparents were immigrants. Welcome to the melting pot.

grampster
September 30, 2007, 09:37 AM
And what a tasty concoction the pot contains.

America! What a state of mind.

Second generation American on one side and fourth on the other.

hso
September 30, 2007, 09:48 AM
Sounds a bit foreign.:scrutiny:

My great grandmother could have said that about anybody whose ancestors didn't walk over to the Americas with hers.;)

StuckInMA
September 30, 2007, 09:52 AM
I hear this guy's a real good gun issue writer.

Not sure if you get the Outdoor Channel but you can see him on PDTV as well.

As a side note, I found THR due to a mention by Massad in a gun mag a few years ago.

Rexster
September 30, 2007, 09:55 AM
My surname is even worse, it's of FRENCH origin. :neener:

Rexster
September 30, 2007, 09:56 AM
In 1917 and 1941, the people with German names were demonized.

Geno
September 30, 2007, 10:01 AM
Doc envisions Massad sitting, trying to enjoy a morning coffee, when all the sudden his name pops up. Poor man is left sitting there pondering..."Now what did I do?!"

Top of the mornin' to ya! --or-- Welcome to a brand-new day! :D

Doc2005

massad ayoob
September 30, 2007, 10:07 AM
You nailed it, Doc.:what::confused::eek:

viking72
September 30, 2007, 10:13 AM
Mr. Ayoob, I am reading your book on Sigs. In the chapter on SIG PROs.
you point out an unknown hole in the slide. I have noticed a similar hole
in the slide of a P220. Could this be for the Euro built-in transponder?
BTW I am enjoying your book.

Later,
Doug

Alexfubar
September 30, 2007, 10:13 AM
Good Morning , Mr. Ayoob. Big fan of The Ayoob Files , you do a good thing for all of us , so thank you.

22-rimfire
September 30, 2007, 10:13 AM
The USA is a melting pot. It is part of what makes this country great and wonderful. Massad I still have a copy of that article you did on the Pythons years ago. I found it very informative.

DougW
September 30, 2007, 10:36 AM
I have been following Mr. Ayoob's writings for years. His work concerning self defence loads (commercial, not hand loads) and the possible implications in a court made way too much sence to me. All loaded weapons here for HD are loaded with factory loads, no reloads.

mec
September 30, 2007, 10:36 AM
Pythons years ago. I found it very informative

I think he's done a couple of them but one in particular stands out. A local gunshop kept a copy like, forever, because it was such a classic.

Bob F.
September 30, 2007, 10:43 AM
Maybe I'm too laid back, don't think so. Think the guy (OP) is just new and was asking a question. First tactial class I took was from a guy with a Jewish sounding name.

Mom was an immigrant and both praternal grandparents. But some of you guys are on up on me. Can't really figure out where the surname came from, maybe distant relatives in France??

Lighten up, learn lots and stay safe.
Bob

armoredman
September 30, 2007, 10:49 AM
I don't care where he's from - I'm just glad he's here.:cool:

ConstitutionCowboy
September 30, 2007, 10:50 AM
Sage Advice:

Get some old copies(and new, too!) of "Combat Handguns" and read up on Massad Ayoob's section, "Self-Defense & The Law". Don't adopt a self-defense attitude without it!

Woody

Look at your rights and freedoms as what would be required to survive and be free as if there were no government. Governments come and go, but your rights live on. If you wish to survive government, you must protect with jealous resolve all the powers that come with your rights - especially with the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Without the power of those arms, you will perish with that government - or at its hand. B.E. Wood

mbdolfin
September 30, 2007, 10:59 AM
I could care less what his name is. I am just glad Mr. Ayoob is on our side!

camacho
September 30, 2007, 11:04 AM
Get some old copies(and new, too!) of "Combat Handguns" and read up on Massad Ayoob's section, "Self-Defense & The Law".


Second that! His column in Combat Handguns as well as the "Ayoob Files" in "American Handgunner" are truly interesting and must for everyone who wants to learn more about SD.

WmCC
September 30, 2007, 11:15 AM
Howdy Mas,

We've missed you! Where are you hanging your hat these days? Would it be a northern latitude or are you back in the "Dead Tree" area?

Guntalk
September 30, 2007, 11:20 AM
Well, this gives me the perfect opening to let THR members know that the new season of "Personal Defense TV" starts this Wednesday, and every week you can see Massad Ayoob on the "Action Plan" segment of the show.

PDTV airs at 5:00pm and 10:30pm EASTERN on Wednesdays, and at 2:30pm EASTERN on Fridays. The show is on The Outdoor Channel. Check local listings. If you have DirecTV or Dish, you can add The Outdoor Channel for only $1.95 per month, but you must ask for it "a la carte."

Oh, and if you think Mas isn't "one of us," just don't have any cold Rolling Rock around and try to keep it all for yourself! <grin>

macadore
September 30, 2007, 11:26 AM
Everyone who contemplates using a firearm for self defense should read In the Gravest Extreme.

The Lone Haranguer
September 30, 2007, 11:28 AM
My real surname is even funnier than Mas's. :neener:

Rick O'Shea
September 30, 2007, 11:37 AM
Everyone who contemplates using a firearm for self defense should read In the Gravest Extreme.

Absolutely agree.

I keep buying copies because I keep giving them to people.

OK, Mas, now for the standard question: when's an updated edition coming out?
The bulk of the information is timeless, but a lot of law has happened in the world of CCW since that book came out...

And one more thing. Thank you.

camacho
September 30, 2007, 11:38 AM
Well, this gives me the perfect opening to let THR members know that the new season of "Personal Defense TV" starts this Wednesday, and every week you can see Massad Ayoob on the "Action Plan" segment of the show.

Glad to hear that Tom, I was getting a little burnt out from the re-runs (though I liked them a lot). I will be in front of the tube this Wed.

alucard0822
September 30, 2007, 11:45 AM
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/pdtv/

http://www.outdoorchannel.com/Shows/PersonalDefenseTV.aspx


Part of the reason I have satelite tv, awesome show Tom and Massad:)

BlindJustice
September 30, 2007, 11:45 AM
I started reading Masaad Ayoob's column much of which
addressed appropriate response in self defense in
the years of AMerican Handgunner about 30 years ago
when I was in the USN. .

To say he's real good, is like saying John Wayne
made some passable western movies.

Semper fi, Masaad

FLORIDA KEVIN
September 30, 2007, 11:47 AM
He Is An American !

1 old 0311
September 30, 2007, 11:51 AM
Hi Mass,

Thanks. I have never met you, but I do owe you. Your advice has saved my bacon, and legal fees, on more than one occasion.

Semper Fi

Just Jim
September 30, 2007, 12:03 PM
So what is your carry weapon now?? I remember reading American Handgunner and your first report as to how good the Colt Officers Model was. Heck I bought one on your say so. Wish I hadn't.

jj

Guntalk
September 30, 2007, 12:13 PM
When I created Personal Defense TV, there were two people I wanted to get for the show.

Massad Ayoob and Clint Smith.

With those two, we would have the "A Team," and the rest would work. I told the folks producing the show that these were the "go to" guys. Imagine the publishers of Guns & Ammo (who produce PDTV) reacting when I said we had to get guys who write for American Handgunner (NOT one of their magazines).

To their credit, they understood, or they just crumbled under my pounding <grin>, but they went with it. Clint and Mas said "yes," and we were on our way.

My role is and was to be the guy who introduces stuff and asks dumb questions for the instructors to handle. Oh, and I also serve as the foil for Mas to beat up on during his segments!

It's a fun show to do, and working with Mas and Clint -- true professionals -- really makes it special.

Nil
September 30, 2007, 12:15 PM
Just FWIW...Mas isn't a practicing Muslim. He is frequently seen wolfin' down ham sandwiches and blowin' the froth off a mug of suds from time to time.

Would it really matter if he was a practicing Muslim? I don't see what anyone's religion, or lack there of, has to do with them being a responsible gun owner and in this case, a prolific gun writer/trainer/etc.

granuale
September 30, 2007, 12:19 PM
What name isn't foreign? Sitting Bull?

RoadkingLarry
September 30, 2007, 12:35 PM
Tom/Guntalk - Thanks for the link in your sig line, for whatever reason I had no idea you had a radio show as well as your Personal Defense TV show. I've got enough of PDTV recored on my DVR that the wife is starting to complain...Great show done by great people.

sm
September 30, 2007, 12:37 PM
Still trying to get that Mas fella Americanized....
28 gauge shotgun will cinch it of course, but the boy just ain't caught on yet. ;)

:D

Hi Mas.

Yeah I know, I am in trouble again...

Steve

Robert Hairless
September 30, 2007, 12:38 PM
Born here. Parents, too. All four grandparents were immigrants. Welcome to the melting pot.

It's the Great American Fondue, so to speak, and Whitmanesque. :)

Massad Ayoob is one of those rare people who can look back on life at any time with the sense that he has made a positive difference. I wish I could do that.

anthrem
September 30, 2007, 12:41 PM
All of these cool people have accounts here? Tom Gresham, Mas Ayoob, Mad Ogre? I could <gasp>PM</gasp> these folks?

I'M NOT WORTHY I'M NOT WORTHY!!!!

Serious, love the articles that I have had a chance to read by Sir Ayoob. Incredibly intelligent, well thought out articles...I am in awe....

Simply in awe!:what: This place is the coolest!

Geno
September 30, 2007, 12:57 PM
Well, folks. This thread is interesting and all, but let's open it up and take some heat off our good friend Massad's name.

The study of first names is called "etymology". Here's a nice link. Go check your own name and see the contribution you all made to our melting pot. I'll start: (It has a search function too)

http://www.behindthename.com/

Paternal grandmother was Zella: German (From Marcella)
Paternal grandfather was Joseph: French, arrived via Canada
Maternal grandmother was Vera: Her father was a doctor in England (Dr. Smith)
Maternal grandfather was Robert: German says he...site agrees. The best was saved for last...this is the man who taught me to enjoy firearms.

Robert Hairless
September 30, 2007, 01:03 PM
I et a mology once. Tasted like chicken. :)

Geno
September 30, 2007, 01:04 PM
That's good!

:D

bogie
September 30, 2007, 01:09 PM
Look at the bright side...

After the immigration folks got through with it, it at least gets spelled like it sounds...

XavierBreath
September 30, 2007, 01:13 PM
Simply in awe! This place is the coolest!

New members would often be surprised at who reads THR, as well as who posts here. You are correct, it's a pretty darned cool gathering of collective knowledge.

It is often amusing to observe a member debating the research, shooting ability, knowledge or experience of a man when they do not realize they are conversing with the man himself. Or woman.

Present members would also be dismayed at some of the well known members who have left in disgust vowing never to return. That is why we as moderators try to maintain civility and we quickly cank threads that lack civility. This can become a very very cool place if we all simply try to treat each other with respect.

Now back to the original thread...........

Breath.........That's a Welsh name........speckled indeed!........;)

Larry Ashcraft
September 30, 2007, 01:16 PM
My name is Scots-Irish.

From what I understand, it was spelled Ashcrofte and pronounced Ashcraft in the old country. Some opted to keep the original pronunciation and simplify the spelling. Some opted to drop the 'e' and change the pronunciation (Ashcroft).

sm
September 30, 2007, 01:23 PM
STEVE

Gender: Masculine
Usage: English

Pronounced: STEEV [key]


Yes, my birth certificate has "Steve".
Not any other version of this name, and therefore shortened.

Truth is, my maternal grandma was real assertive I be named Steve.
NOT Steven, NOT Stephen, but Steve.
I know why, this name was important to her, and will not share all of the why - only this part:

"Young man should have a strong masculine name. One that folks cannot shorten or associate with any other thing, such as being Biblical and "Stephen the Martyr". It is not right for a child to start life with a stigma or stereotype. Life does not need to begin with such things, and in going through life which is often cold, harsh and ugly, never give a kid something others can use against them".

Maternal grandma felt this way about names for girls too.
"Just name the damn kid, a strong name, don't hang something on them to be cute, goopy or stupid. The kid will have to through life with this name - not the parents."


Steve

jfh
September 30, 2007, 01:25 PM
and about to make my second cup of espresso. (It's raining here today, no pressing range time.) At any rate--

Other than the somewhat banal celebrity-talk, it seems to me the posts in this thread best typify what the THR forums can be. Xavier-breath said it well.

After I jumped back into gunny-ism about 1988, one of the first articles I remember reading about tactical issues was Ayoob's writeup of the Miami FBI shootout. This was my introduction to a personal-defense (offense) shooting mindset, and I was riveted by it.

At the time, I was married and the father of two prepubescent daughters, and we lived in a exurban world, more than relatively safe. Ayoob helped me understand the issues, and I was well-on-the-way to becoming a 2nd A and semi-auto gunnie.

Now, if I were more of a TV-watcher....

Jim H.

Pigspitter
September 30, 2007, 01:25 PM
At least his surname is easy to pronounce. I've heard every possible pronunciation of mine. And its a Anglo-Irish name.

revjen45
September 30, 2007, 01:29 PM
"In 1917 and 1941, the people with German names were demonized." Yup. My Dad was an aeronautical engineer in WW2 and the authorities wanted to know if he had any contact with relatives back in the Fatherland or residual loyalties to it. My last name is common in Germany, not so here. His Dad was born in Freiheitsfahrt (freedom journey) fleeing the Czarist secret police. They were Menonites who left Germany to avoid conscription. The Czar offerred them farms in the Ukraine and promised exemption from military service, then reneged on the deal. They got out just ahead of the security apparatus and fled with my Great-Grandmother carrying my Grandfather. My point is that America has been a shining beacon for the whole world. It is the greatest nation of Earth because it is made up of people to who Freedom and Opportunity were more important than Life itself, and their descendants. I firmly believe that legal immigrants rejuvenate the national spirit- the preservation of liberty requires people who remember what life is like without it. Anybody whose name isn't something like Red Cloud or Black Kettle has a foreign name. Back to the original post- Good morning Mr. Ayoob. I hope to meet you sometime.

El Tejon
September 30, 2007, 01:30 PM
Darn right Mas sounds foreign, he says things like "pahhhk yer cahhhr close to the bahhhr, near Harrrvahhhrd yahhhrd" just like those foreign devils from Bawwwstan.:neener:

Guntalk
September 30, 2007, 01:43 PM
Okay, this will be fun. I just talked with Massad.

He's going to be a guest on my radio show today at 3:00pm Eastern, TODAY. Actually we come back from the commercial break at 3:06.

The list of stations carrying the show are at http://www.guntalk.com/site39.php.

Or, tune in to one of the stations which stream the show. www.kbnp.com, or ... wait. Here's a partial list.

Website Air Time
KBNP www.kbnp.com 11 - 2 pm Pacific
WNTK www.wntk.com 3 - 4 pm Eastern
WJNT www.wjnt.com 1 - 2:30 pm Eastern
WTKG www.wtkg.com 3 - 4 pm Eastern
KTBB www.ktbb.com 2 - 4 pm Central
KSBN www.ksbn.net 11 - 2 pm Pacific
KNRS www.570knrs.com 1pm-3pm Mountain

If you haven't seen Mas on TV, you are in for a treat to hear his melliflous voice. No wonder he is so effective on the witness stand.

Those with XM radio can hear the show delayed at 5:00pm (Massad will be at 6:00pm) on channel 166.

Oh, and you can call the show and ask Mas questions or just say howdy. The call-in number is 1-866-825-5486. (1-TOM-TALK-GUNS)

See you on the radio.

hankdatank1362
September 30, 2007, 01:44 PM
Hey El T, I don't mean to hijack, but is that you on the lawyer website?


And, more importantly, if it is, can I call you Cap'n Kirk?











(I'm sure you've never been called that before.)

Mtnvalley
September 30, 2007, 01:47 PM
Actually, legend has it that he actually changed his name TO Ayoob.

He used to be known for shouting "BOO-YA!" after kicking the ass of yet another person who said he didn't seem "American" in some way...but once that phrase became a bit more mainstream, he needed a new catchphrase.

Henceforth, he spelled it backwards, and took it as his name. Or so say the children's folksongs...

I eagerly look forward to training with him in 2008.

Jim Watson
September 30, 2007, 01:53 PM
Massad himself once recounted getting ready to leave for Bisley in the 1970s. The BOAC pilot said "I don't care what his papers say, nobody named Ayoob is getting on my aeroplane with a gun."

Norm357
September 30, 2007, 01:57 PM
Massad himself once recounted getting ready to leave for Bisley in the 1970s. The BOAC pilot said "I don't care what his papers say, nobody named Ayoob is getting on my aeroplane with a gun."


Heh. I was just going to post that.:cuss:

Hey Mas. Hows it going. :D

9mmdude
September 30, 2007, 02:03 PM
Mas Ayoob is a great teacher, great writer, and GREAT AMERICAN! I took his LFI 1 class in 1995. Best money I ever spent!!!

Thanks Mas!

armoredman
September 30, 2007, 02:04 PM
Thanks for the radio links! Now tuned to streaming audio, KNBP, waiting an hour to hear the program. I wish I could afford LFI - ADC training is pathetic.

Rexster
September 30, 2007, 02:09 PM
After _In the Gravest Extreme_, I recommend _Stressfire_. Good Stuff!

sm
September 30, 2007, 02:12 PM
Darn right Mas sounds foreign, he says things like "pahhhk yer cahhhr close to the bahhhr, near Harrrvahhhrd yahhhrd" just like those foreign devils from Bawwwstan.:neener:

El T,

After the second time Mas asking, and I was still standing there going "whut?" , "huh?" , the Universal Language came into play.
Mas just goes to the TV, with the video, taps the screen and points... and he wanted to know how I would shoot this "charging target stage".

"First thing I would do, is get rid of the pistols and use shotguns" - I suggested.

:neener:

akodo
September 30, 2007, 02:20 PM
The vast vast majority of us are children or grandchildren of immigrants. Trying to acertain anything based on a person's last name is unreliable at best and downright insulting at worst.

Anyways, my grandfather came from the Netherlands as a young baby. The family still has the basinette he came over in. I remember seeing it as a young lad of 7 or so, and being told basically word for word that statement. My first thoughts were 'WOW! Moses floating down the river doesn't hold a candle to grandpa!' invisioning in my young mind this basinette bobbing along the ocean.

Anyways, Massad Ayoob is a highly respected gunwriter and spends a lot of time in courtrooms as a 'firearms expert' to counterbalance what the jurors think they know after decades of watching TV.

I do have one minor beef with the man however. He is a proponet of posting on the internet with your given name. Something about 'hiding behind a pseudonym and theirfore not being open to critque of claimed expertise etc.' While there are some valid points that anyone can claim anything on the internet, it seems a simple solution that if you really want to challenge or discuss something further, PMing them and asking them for their identity to back up claimed credentials is all that is required.

Anyone on here who has a beef with me, a disagreement, or desires to properly credit a quote, all you have to do is PM me, I;ll give you my real name and address.

Thing is, by openly listing your name on internet forums, anyone can google and find your phone number and address, and that makes it easy for idiots to harrass posters. I see using a pseudonym on the internet as no different than a writer simply listing his name but leaving off his phone number and home address. If a reader needs to contact the writer, he must send his communication 'care of the editor' placing at least one barrier between the named writer and the reader. Same thing with using a pseudonym. I suspect most magazine and newspaper writers and TV reporters have unlisted numbers so you cannot phonebook search the nation with 3 keystrokes and give them a call, or easily dig up personal info.

http://web.public-records-now.com/Search/SearchResults.aspx?vw=people&input=name&fn=massad&mn=&ln=ayoob&city=&state=&criteria=massad;;;;ayoob;;;;;;;;;;

That's a lot less information than when I type in names of people I know. Heck, sometimes it even comes up with a listing of 'known relatives' including the person's children.

That's why I don't post using my given name, but if anyone needs to talk to me direct, I won't 'hide' behind it, just ask.

p.s. this is also the reason I am against news media posting lists of names of who has CCW, even if they only include names and not phone numbers or addresses.

bogie
September 30, 2007, 02:37 PM
Oh, it's even MORE fun when you start getting harassing phone calls from folks who are threatening you with all sorts of Bad Things...

WHY anyone would think that picking fights with gun nuts is a good idea I don't understand, but hey...

I'm also a public person... "Bogie" is just pretty much my name...

esheato
September 30, 2007, 03:16 PM
I'm listening now..

Sounds great!

Ed

Guntalk
September 30, 2007, 03:38 PM
>>Henceforth, he spelled it backwards, and took it as his name. Or so say the children's folksongs...
<<

Okay, I'm going to use that on the air!

armoredman
September 30, 2007, 04:04 PM
I am loving this program, Tom. Now I have to see if i can get a local station to carry it.

Koos Custodiet
September 30, 2007, 04:31 PM
The coolest Massad Ayoob quote, IMO, is not on the 'net anywhere. But I have it in print. Something along the lines of "You bought your eight year old daughter a *revolver*??? <Mas> Well, she's had her own *semi-auto* since she was *five*"...

Mtnvalley
September 30, 2007, 04:36 PM
Okay, I'm going to use that on the air!

Great! I sure wish a station local to me offered your show, or that it was on Sirius. I do look forward to the new season of PDTV, though...I never miss it, and keep every ep recorded.

armoredman
September 30, 2007, 05:17 PM
He did, I heard it, and Mas laughed. :)

Guntalk
September 30, 2007, 05:21 PM
If you can't hear the show live, you can download the shows from the web site.

www.guntalk.com/listen, and follow the links to the archives.

Apple iTunes has it, too.

massad ayoob
September 30, 2007, 06:00 PM
Thanks for the kind words.

To play a little catchup...

TOM: Thanks for having me on the show on the spur of the moment. That was a hoot!3

SM: I'll go to a 28 gauge when they make it...bigger.:)

JUST JIM: Sorry the Colt Officers didn't work out for you. I carry different guns at different times, depending what I'm doing and what gun I'm testing.

RICK O'SHEA: The book has stood the test of time pretty well. As I said a little bit ago on Tom's show, deadly force is a mature body of law, with few recent and substantive changes. The new "stand your ground" laws in some states, for example, are a great moral victory for our side, but not yet court tested.

BILL: When not on the road teaching etc., I divide my time between NH and FL, mostly the latter.

AKODO: We may have a misunderstanding. The net nickname is a tradition in the electronic forum, kinda like the "handle" at a cowboy action match. At the latter, I'll happily answer to "Camelback Kid," and in the usual exchanges of info and information that a forum is for, I have no problem at all with the nicknames. On the rare occasion that a flamer or troll badmouths another member or shooter by name, though, I do think he should have the cojones to put his own name on what he's saying.

MTNVALLEY: Good one. That's a new one, and Tom really did use it on the radio show.:D

El Tejon
September 30, 2007, 06:10 PM
*rolls on ground*

"Stand your ground" not court tested?:confused:

Mas, the elimination of the duty to retreat has been ongoing over the last 150 years. The Supreme Court of Indiana did it for us in 1865. We've been getting by just fine without a duty to retreat for over 140 years well before Florida became the first state in the Union (according to the media) to abolish the duty to retreat a couple of years ago.

Is there some other provision of a certain "stand your ground" statute that is unsually and would be subject to court challenge? If so, what would that be?:confused:

sm
September 30, 2007, 06:16 PM
Mas wrote
SM: I'll go to a 28 gauge when they make it...bigger.:)

They do, just take out the tubes and it becomes a 12 bore. :p


I actually have another reply, still this "is" a family orientated public forum and all...:)
Gee, all the "really good" straight lines and comebacks occur behind the monitor so many times.
:D

I know...I'm in trouble again. I seem to stay in trouble. ;)

Edmond
September 30, 2007, 06:37 PM
WHY anyone would think that picking fights with gun nuts is a good idea I don't understand, but hey...

Just like the same reason that people picked fights with Bruce Lee. People just wanted to see if he was the real deal or not. I guess some found out the hard way.:uhoh:

Only LFI class I've taken is Advanced Handgun Skills and it wasn't even designed by Mr. Ayoob. However, I will be taking more LFI classes once I get into a LE position.

Roadwild17
September 30, 2007, 06:52 PM
Tom & Mas, just to let you know, my fiance says doesn't like yall. For some reason yall are constantly filling up the tivo :rolleyes: .

akodo
September 30, 2007, 07:03 PM
AKODO: We may have a misunderstanding. The net nickname is a tradition in the electronic forum, kinda like the "handle" at a cowboy action match. At the latter, I'll happily answer to "Camelback Kid," and in the usual exchanges of info and information that a forum is for, I have no problem at all with the nicknames. On the rare occasion that a flamer or troll badmouths another member or shooter by name, though, I do think he should have the cojones to put his own name on what he's saying.

fair enough. When called for, a person should be willing to reveal who they truely are. Barring that, it is smarter to pick a nickname and attempt to remain somewhat anonymous

atblis
September 30, 2007, 07:36 PM
Did we ever figure out where his grandparents are from? I've actually always kinda wondered that. Csaba Csere is another name that I always see and wonder. Just now bothered to look that one up. I was guessing Turkish, but it is in fact Hungarian.

massad ayoob
September 30, 2007, 07:47 PM
El Tejon, I tossed that off too quickly and upon review, didn't phrase what I was trying to say clearly enough. What I was getting at is, I see a lot of folks on the boards who feel that new laws like Florida's, which include what some see as immunity from liability if a shooting in self-defense, as a shield against lawsuits. Those with that provision are too new to see yet how well that element is really going to work. In one FL case, prosecutor said he wasn't going to prosecute because he didn't believe he could get a conviction, which leaves shooter not exonerated by "no true bill" or any indication from criminal justice system that it was indeed self-defense.

I should have been clearer. Thanks for catching it.

Jim Watson
September 30, 2007, 08:23 PM
When did you move to Florida from the Frozen North?
I saw you at the Florida State IDPA in Orlando and thought that a long haul from N.H. But it wasn't, was it?

armoredman
September 30, 2007, 08:57 PM
Mas, some day I hope to meet you, if just to shake your hand, if you'll let an old knuckle dragging prison guard that close.:p Thank you for all you've done to keep people safe. I feel many good people are breathing, and many bad ones are not, because of your teachings. I am actually rereading your book In The Gravest Extreme right now. Still very good stuff - but would you consider writing an updated version?

Doug S
September 30, 2007, 08:59 PM
I’ve often wondered about the ethnic origin of Massad Ayoob’s name. Not because I’m prejudice, but because I’ve enjoyed reading his writings through the years, and quite frankly the name is somewhat unusual. I often get questioned about my surname, and I’ve never found the question offensive. My paternal grandparents were both from Lebanon. I’m Christian, not Muslim, and I'm very fond of firearms. If someone questions the ethnicity of my name in an appropriate manner, I certainly have no problem with that. It can actually open up some very good conversation. Our society seems to be becoming a little too thin-skinned concerning such matters. Maybe it's my anthropology background, but I enjoy the topic. We’ve got enough to worry about in 2007 America, than to allow the liberal mainstream to make us so overly sensitive, that we can’t discuss a simple thing like a name. Now, if one chooses not to discuss such info, in a forum such as this one, for personal/confidentiality reasons (or simply maybe because the just don't care to), then I can accept that point of view. I only wanted to comment on the oversensitivity that some people seem to have regarding such everyday topics of discussion, such as, where a name originated.

Mr. Ayoob, if you do read this, like many of the others here, I'd like to say that I do enjoy your writing. In particular, I found "In the Gravest Extreme" enlightening. The first gun magazine that I purchased was your 1998 "The Complete Book Of Handguns" (I still have it), and it was what prompted me to get my concealed carry permit, and purchase my first CCW firearm. These even helped to "convert" my wife, who is now very pro-gun. Also, if you don't find the question too personal, I would be interested to know the origin of your name. Thanks.

LaibYechiel
September 30, 2007, 09:01 PM
My wife and I had the pleasure of taking LFI-1 in December of 2006. Believe me, it is the best investment of time and money you could ever make for SD training.

The best way to describe it would be to imagine a garage band guitarist being able to study with Eric Clapton. Yep, I can't wait for LFI-II to be scheduled for Florida (c'mon Mas, please, huh, huh, pretty please).

In the meantime...

Peace and blessings,
Laib Yechiel (Rabbi Lar)

JohnKSa
September 30, 2007, 09:10 PM
In one FL case, prosecutor said he wasn't going to prosecute because he didn't believe he could get a conviction, which leaves shooter not exonerated by "no true bill" or any indication from criminal justice system that it was indeed self-defense. I'll admit that I've also been a bit skeptical that a failure to prosecute constitutes "justification under the law" which is the requirement for civil immunity under the statute...

Do you think a "no bill" from a Grand Jury would be sufficient or will it require an acquittal?

Just Jim
September 30, 2007, 09:14 PM
JUST JIM: Sorry the Colt Officers didn't work out for you. I carry different guns at different times, depending what I'm doing and what gun I'm testing.

It was the best lesson you could ever give on handguns. Just because it is the gun of the month doesn't mean it is worth a hoot, no matter who tells you it is. No hard feelings.

I do like your writing on gunfights, seems you can report in a fashion that gives a great mental image.

jj

One of Many
September 30, 2007, 09:15 PM
Concerning family names and national origin; It may be impossible for national origin of some people to be identified by the family name. My family name is one that has been listed in US census records all of the way back to the first census; the family name has been spelled 5 or 6 different ways, from one census to another over the past 200 or so years. In rural areas of the country, very few people could read or write, and the census taker would write the name based on his idea of the pronunciation the family used.

We do not know what the origin of the family name is, or when the first family member arrived on the continent; it doesn't make us any better or worse for only being known as 'Americans', because we can't claim to be descended from some ancient land and culture. The only thing certain is that we have as much, and no more, right to be called American as any other person whose family arrived here legally, and adapted to the local culture.

What matters is not where a person originated, but where he decides to plant and make new roots; to grow and build instead of slash and burn. To arrive here legally, assimilate socially, work and prosper, raise a family with respect for others, obey the laws; these are the important things. This country is large enough that people from extreme corners have widely different speech inflections and accents, even different phrases and words to mean the same thing; it is a mistake to assume that because a person 'sounds funny' that they are somehow less valuable to society, or even a threat to society. You may not understand every thing the person says, but eventually your ears (and brain) will start to make sense of what you hear; it happened to me when I moved to Tennessee - took a few months before I heard every thing 'normally', and I doubt the local people changed the way they spoke.

I wish I could still watch and listen to Mas and Tom on PDTV. Charter Cable recently moved the Outdoor Channel from extended basic to the digital area of their service, and I do not want to use a converter box, and pay a higher fee to see just one channel.

Is there any chance that the previous season's shows of PDTV could be made available for download over the internet?

Just Jim
September 30, 2007, 09:29 PM
No really the Colt Officers model when it came out with great fanfare had some serious problems. The recoil spring would lose it's keeper and fly out of the gun as you shot it. The tube that holds the spring detent on the side of the gun holds your safety in place and your slide stop in place would fly off the side of the gun while you shot it. Both events were death for sure in a gunfight.

I learned that just because an expert is paid to sell his name and a gun it doesn't mean the gun is any good. A man has to forget that his hard earned dollars that went for the gun and his dollars that paid to learn from an expert doesn't mean you get what you pay for.

Looking back though Mas it was the best thing that could happen as it taught me a lesson that will always will be remembered. For that I thank you as it saved me so much money after that hard lesson. I owe you a great deal.

jj

CDignition
September 30, 2007, 09:53 PM
Does Mas Ayoob have a schedule for training classes in Florida?

massad ayoob
September 30, 2007, 09:54 PM
John, it's hard to say. Traditionally, the grand jury ruling no true bill has been seen as exoneration. It's going to come down to how the courts interpret the law. Historically, judges have not looked with favor on laws that took away their discretion (as, in this case, to determine whether to dismiss a suit), and there are loopholes. I can see judges deciding that if the plaintiff alleges negligence, they may find the matter triable. We'll have to see how it shakes out and what precedents develop, and that'll take a while. I just think it's a little early to assume that these laws will make folks in those states as lawsuit-proof as they should.

Moondancer
September 30, 2007, 10:23 PM
I first took note of Mas Ayoob's writings in an old martial arts magazine, long since discontinued. IIRC, it was an issue of Karate Illustrated, a sister publication to (the still in print) Black Belt magazine.

Again, IIRC, the article was about the use of the PR-24 side-handle baton and it's evolution from the Okinawan tonfa. I soon noticed Mas' byline on articles in gun rags of the day. Recalling my own MA career, that would have made the article come out somewhere in the early-to-mid seventies, so he's be writing for 30 years, not 20.

Damn, I'm old! :eek:

LaibYechiel
September 30, 2007, 11:14 PM
CDignition,

For a complete schedule of LFI classes see http://www.ayoob.com/

From what I can see it appears that the only classes in Florida are LFI -I scheduled for December 6-9, 2007, and LFI-IV on November 11-17, 2007.

I am still hoping for LFI-II in Florida either late 2007 or spring / winter of 2008.

Laib Yechiel

JohnKSa
October 1, 2007, 11:54 PM
We'll have to see how it shakes out and what precedents develop, and that'll take a while. I just think it's a little early to assume that these laws will make folks in those states as lawsuit-proof as they should.A good friend of mine often comments that a law isn't a law until it's been tested in court.

I hate the wait and see, and I hate even more that someone's going to have to be the test case.

Thanks.

DBR
October 2, 2007, 01:25 AM
Mas, thank you for the six courses I took with you from 1994 to 2004 in NH. What you taught me stays with me to this day. Fortunately I have not had to apply that knowledge.

Bily Lovec
October 2, 2007, 09:54 AM
Mas,
you owe me some money.
Way back when, you used a spyderco harpy in you handgun pictures, I decided that was the kewlest knife in the world and had to have it. In the mean time, Ive bought dozens of spyderco's, including no less than 8 harpy's..

I hope spyderco at least gave you a free ball cap out of that deal...


p.s.
I have enjoyed your writing for too many years. Keep it up :-)

Monkeyleg
October 2, 2007, 06:52 PM
All of the Wisconsin THR members should be grateful to Massad for the efforts he's made on behalf of CCW in our state. He's spoken at two fund-raising banquets for our political action committee, and also testified at joint senate/assembly hearings.

I can't think of another nationally-know RKBA activist who's done this, and not expected payment.

damien
October 2, 2007, 06:58 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoob

Massad F. Ayoob (born July 20, 1948) is an internationally-known firearms and self-defense instructor. He is the Director of the Lethal Force Institute in Concord, New Hampshire, has taught police techniques and civilian self-defense in numerous venues since 1974, and has appeared as an expert witness in several trials. He has served as a part-time police officer in New Hampshire since 1972 and currently holds the rank of Captain in the Grantham, New Hampshire police department.

Massad Ayoob has authored several books and over one thousand articles on firearms, combat techniques, self-defense, and legal issues, and has served in an editorial capacity for Guns Magazine, American Handgunner, Gun Week, and Combat Handguns. Since 1995, he has written self-defense- and firearms-related articles for Backwoods Home Magazine.

Books
Armed and Alive (1979)
Ayoob Files: The Book (1995)
Ayoob on Firearms (year unknown)
Fundamentals of Modern Police Impact Weapons (1996)
Gun Digest Book of SIG-Sauer: A Complete Look at SIG-Sauer Pistols (2004)
Gunproof Your Children / Handgun Primer (1986)
Handgun Primer (1986)
Hit The White Part (1986) (on bowling pin shooting)
In The Gravest Extreme (1980)
LFI Handgun Safety (year unknown)
Physio-Psychological Aspects of Violent Encounters (year unknown)
Police Survival Shooting (How Close is too Close) (year unknown)
Post Shooting Trauma (year unknown)
The Complete Book of Handguns (19982001)
The Experts Speak Out: The Police View of Gun Control (1981)
The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery (with Chuck Taylor, 2002)
The Semi-Automatic Pistol in Police Service and Self Defense (1987)
The Stressfire series, three volumes: Handgun (1986), Shotgun (1992), Rifle (year unknown)
The Truth About Self-Protection (1983)

References
Grantham NH Police Department website

JohnKSa
October 3, 2007, 12:36 AM
Ayoob Files: The Book (1995)It's about time for a sequel (or two). ;)

benEzra
October 4, 2007, 03:45 PM
Everyone who contemplates using a firearm for self defense should read In the Gravest Extreme.
Definitely. I ordered that book in the early/mid '90s when I first got my CHL. The edition of the Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery that Mr. Ayoob edited is also an excellent resource, and would be the #1 book I would recommend to someone who was interested in purchasing a first defensive handgun.

I have a big binder of pages removed from 18 years' worth of his articles from Combat Handguns, G&A, American Handgunner, etc.; very good information, always. One of these days, I'm going to get up the time and funds to take LFI-1.

Phaetos
October 4, 2007, 08:30 PM
My surname is even worse, it's of FRENCH origin.

I work with someone who's surname is French .. and it means something really dirty.

BigCass
September 26, 2008, 07:37 PM
I know this thread has been dead for a while, but I'm a new guy and stumbled across this site from searching Google for Massad Ayoob.

Ive done quite a bit of firearms training at our Local Range under the instruction of Ed Santos, and he is always quoting Massad Ayoob, and his thoughts on things. I get many magazines in the mail that have articles written by Mr. Ayoob and I look forward to reading his column!

Very smart man in the ways of the "gun world", tactics and so on. Its a pleasure to know he chimes in on this site from time to time, and I look forward to following along with this site and it's membership!

Thanx to all!

Josh

TStorm
September 26, 2008, 08:12 PM
We all appreciate and respect Mas.

It is with that in mind, and the original question of this Thread, that I ask that the moderators lock this thread so the question itself doesn't get "bumped" again.

XavierBreath
September 26, 2008, 09:10 PM
Roger that.

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