Tripple 7 fffg for 45 Colt Cartridges?


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Ed Gallop
October 2, 2007, 06:20 PM
I've been loading black powder in 45 Colt cartridges but decided to go for the cleaner Tripple 7. I used my son's ffg Tripple 7 and it shot well last week. I bought fffg Tripple 7 and it says (in red) on the label, "Do Not Use fffg Tripple 7 in cartridges". It also says to use it as you would black powder. Am I missing something? I load the desired ffg powder (20 gr.), compress with a Vegetable Wad, fill with grits to a level for good bullet compression, and it shoots great. Is there a problem with fffg that ffg doesn't have?

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zxcvbob
October 2, 2007, 06:25 PM
Maybe they don't want you using it in huge rifle cartridges in weak antique firearms. (I believe 777 is about 20% stronger than BP)

Bob

Bad Flynch
October 2, 2007, 07:08 PM
I do not remember just what the problem was, but there was one and it has bee reported.

However, figuring that 777 is cleaner is an illusion. While it is true that is produces less black fouling, the fouling produced is at least as corrosive and maybe more corrosive than the fouling produced by BP.

Here is the scoop: BP is based on Salt Petre, Potassium Nitrate. When it gives up its nitrate, it becomes mostly Potassium Carbonate, a strong alkali like Washing Soda. That promotes rusting. However, it is mostly water soluble and can be effectively neutralized by vinegar.

777 and Pyrodex are based with Potassium Perchlorate. That is the same Potassium Perchlorate as was in the legendary corrosive military priming. When Potassium Perchlorate gives up its oxygen, it becomes Potassium Chloride (KCl). Potassium Chloride is a neutral salt very much akin to Sodium Chloride (Table Salt).

Potassium Chloride attracts moisture, penetrates the pores of the steel, and will allow corrosion under an oil film. Potassium Chloride must be removed with water and really nothing else will work. There is some indication that using commercial water-based solvents containing ammonia may make this worse. Maybe not, the jury is still out on that one.

Go ahead and shoot a faux powder. Pyrodex is an otherwise excellent product and works well in cartridges. I have used it myself. Just remeber to clean as vigorously with water as you would have with Black Powder and everything will be fine.

Ed Gallop
October 2, 2007, 11:05 PM
I've searched the web in vain for a reason not to use fffg Tripple 7 in cartridges, including the Hodgen site. I came to the conclusion that Tripple 7 of any granulation should not be used in a cartridge where a filler is needed to reduce the powder charge, such as the huge cavity of the 45 Colt.

It is strongly stressed that no filler of any kind be used with Tripple 7. The only thing between the bullet base and powder should be a wad no more than .030" thick. Guess I'll have to use it in my 1860 Army or other non-cartridge handgun. I'll stick with the old black powder in the Colt 45 just to be safe.

Tripple 7 is cleaner. There is less mess and odor, but it has to be cleaned just like black powder does. The rounds I fired in my 45 Colt had very little discoloration of the brass in comparison with black powder or smokeless.

zxcvbob
October 3, 2007, 12:50 AM
came to the conclusion that Tripple 7 of any granulation should not be used in a cartridge where a filler is needed to reduce the powder charge, such as the huge cavity of the 45 Colt.

Reduce the powder charge? You've confused me... I use a compressed charge of 777 whenever I load .45 Colts with it (which is not very often) But I am shooting a Ruger Blackhawk...

Ed Gallop
October 3, 2007, 12:56 PM
A full 45 Colt cartridge of Triple 7 is a heavy charge. It is considerably more power than black powder. I have shot a full cartridge of black powder and it is a little too much for me to be comfortable with. I normally shoot 25g to 30g with a pad and grits filler. Hodgen says that is a no no with Tripple 7. I do not know if it is though. I did it with ffg and it didn't seem to be a problem but I'm afraid to do it with fffg after reading Hodgen's warnings. That is what this post is about.

Hodgen suggest Tripple 7 not be compressed much if at all, but no air gap. They say it performs best when the bullet just touched the powder.

Bullet
October 3, 2007, 11:11 PM
Hodgdon has data for Triple 7 ffg -

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/muzzleloading/granular/t7cartridge.php

From Hodgdon -
Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads.

I'd give Hodgdon a call.

Ed Gallop
October 4, 2007, 11:25 AM
The 30gr load is a bit heavy for my comfort and it can't be reduced. I believe 30gr of Tripple 7 is equal to 35gr of black powder and that is about what I shoot in my heavy duty Wakler. I think it is a bit much for the 45 Colt. I shoot a lot of lead and want the revolver to last.

I did manage to reach Hodgen and the extra power of fffg is beyond the limit at 30gr and should not be used. I did shoot 20gr of ffg with a wad and filler and it seemed okay but apparently it is not safe so I will not do it again. My fffg will last a long time shooting in my black powder revolvers because I much prefer black powder with them.

I was told Hogden will be releasing a new Tripple 7 in the future that is much better for 45 Colt cowboy shooting. Looking forward to it.

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