schmidt bender? worth the money


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rob4570
October 4, 2007, 02:32 AM
A guy I work with just got a schmidt bender rifle scope, He swears it is so much better than his leupold lp. is he full of it or what

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rangerruck
October 4, 2007, 04:27 AM
these are argueably the best scopes you can buy, only top grade machining, and materials, space based quality glass, you name it.

English Bob
October 4, 2007, 04:47 AM
No, they are some of the finest scopes available and your friend is not full of it. They tend to chosen over many other manufacturers by Law Enforcement and the Military due to their rugged construction and superb light gathering qualities.

The major drawback is the price!

birdbustr
October 4, 2007, 06:31 AM
I had a S&B in 3-12X50mm. It was a very clear scope and held zero exellent.
Worth it? NO. When I bought my 7mm-08 and sold my rifle that the S&B was on, my intentions were to put it on the 7mm-08. I started digging around on the internet and came across some reviews on the Meopta scopes. I had a little spare cash and bought a 3-12X56mm with the 4B reticle for $650.
MEOPTA IS JUST AS GOOD AS A SCHMIDT AND BENDER FOR 1/3 THE COST. I sold my S&B and used the Meopta instead.
Get one before the prices go up to the high costs of the S&B, Zeiss, and Swarovski scopes. BTW, Meoptas are Czech made, so you still get the European quality like the above mentioned. www.eurooptic.com will treat you right.

stubbicatt
October 4, 2007, 07:49 AM
IOR is another choice.

That said, S&B scopes are outstanding.

USSR
October 4, 2007, 09:47 AM
"Worth" is another of those ambiguous terms, such as "cheap". While few people will argue that S&B scopes are not among the best available, whether or not they are worth the price is a subjective rather than an objective assessment.

Don

Jim Watson
October 4, 2007, 10:03 AM
The government thinks they are worth your tax money to put on sniper rifles. Hell of a note the USMC is dependent on Germans to shoot at Iraqis.

Ghost Tracker
October 4, 2007, 10:46 AM
Objectively, my Toyota will do everything my Porsche will do. Subjectively, however, the Porsche is worth every extra penny. "Worth It" is in the eye of the beholder.

S&B is the Porsche of Rifle Scopes.

MCgunner
October 4, 2007, 10:55 AM
Yep, I've shot with 'em, friend's rifles. I can't afford that sort of thing. They are outstanding. The optics have to be experienced to be believed. Do I need one to hunt deer with? No. I don't own one overkill. I get by with my Weaver on my .308, my Weatherby Supreme on my 7, and my Bushnell on my .257 (I'm going to upgrade that one in the future). Would I could I afford the price of admission? You betcha. S&B is the best I've every had the pleasure of putting an eye behind. But, I'm not in the wasting of money income class, yet. I've not made my second million, yet, and I've given up on the first.

Probably the highest quality I'll ever buy is maybe a lower level Zeiss or something, something in the 700 dollar range, maybe. That's better than all, but the top end Leupold and arguably better anyway. I'm sorry, but I just can't spring for 1000 dollar plus optics. Heck, my M7 is probably MSRP about that WITH the Weaver I have on it and I wouldn't have that if I'd not won it in a door prise raffle. :D Gave 200 for my Savage 7 mag M110 and put a Weatherby Supreme on it I got at a sell out price of $150. It's an amazingly good glass for no more than I gave for it. I'm happy with that one, for sure, and the Weaver does what I need it to do. I don't even think about Schmidt and Benders, it's that old deal, if you have to ask how much it is, you can't afford it, LOL!

Objectively, my Toyota will do everything my Porsche will do. Subjectively, however, the Porsche is worth every extra penny. "Worth It" is in the eye of the beholder.

Well, that all depends on the job. If you're judging lap times, the number of chics you can pick up, or just the "I'm better'n you cause I can get a loan on a Porsche and pay for it for ten years" factor, sure. If you paid cash for it, what the HELL do you need a car to pick up chics, for? :D But, how about gas mileage in a 3 dollar a gallon world, or car pooling with 3 other folks, or a long trip on I35? Anyway, I'd run you title for title on lap times at a race track with a $11,000 GSXR1000. :D Then again, I don't have a Jixxer. My sport bike is a SV650S, won't do, but 135, handles great, and it's a 70 mph world out there. I'm a utilitarian kinda guy. When I was racing, sky was the limit if you wanted to win. That's why I don't race big bikes anymore, well, that and age. LOL! I'm too old to break any more bones.

Now, the S&B would do my deer hunting better'n my Weaver, but whether I actually NEED to spend that much on a scope is quite debatable. No, I'll make do, thank you. Hunting, for me, is more than equipment. The marines need the best, some folks actually hunt deer with a stick and a string and sight over pins. Me, I often use an iron sighted .357 magnum revolver, just for the challenge of getting close and because of an eye dominance problem, I never learned to shoot a bow left handed.

ClarkEMyers
October 4, 2007, 01:21 PM
Yes and no - S&B means a great optical device - I might put a short dot on an M4gery see e.g. the history of their combat sight developed by request. For making small groups on a range the best is none too good. For a hunting rifle it's a gun sight not a see the craters on the moon and the moons of Jupiter moonscope.

For a gun sight Leupold makes a fine hunting scope. My prime hunting rifle is a Steyr Scout with a Leupold made long eye relief fixed power gun sight that works just fine - I've even been known to enjoy iron sights when my eyes and I were young once. I've also mounted a fixed power Leupold on a double rifle and it's easy to find folks who make a fetish of a fixed 3X Leupold. Time was I was content with a K3 Weaver.

Bad idea to go with an ultimate quality rifle sight when good binoculars and a decent rifle sight make a better combination in the field. Even in binoculars my own choice is to have a variety of mid-priced binoculars 6x30 - 8x45 -12x56 rather than to have a single $2000 binocular that however good the 2k optics are is inferior for a given use to an cheaper binocular in the right size and power range.

GunTech
October 4, 2007, 02:42 PM
If you shoot at 1000 yards, you'll notice S&B glass is superior. If you abuse you optics, you'll appreciate the heavy construction.

If neither of these two apply, you probably don't need a high end optic like these. Personally, I'll take USO over S&B. But for 99.9% of shooters, S&B is overkill.

Zak Smith
October 4, 2007, 04:06 PM
S&B is top of the line. It usually hard to find one of the popular PMII models in stock at MSRP or below. This indicates their market value. Whether or not someone needs that level of quality, or can realistically meet their needs with less is up to them.

atblis
October 4, 2007, 05:26 PM
Objectively, my Toyota will do everything my Porsche will do. Subjectively, however, the Porsche is worth every extra penny. "Worth It" is in the eye of the beholder.

S&B is the Porsche of Rifle Scopes.

Not a good comparison. There's considerably more difference between the Yota and the Porsche (like intended use). There are plenty of scopes that are the equal of the S&B (or so close it's not even noticeable). You could make the argument that in many respects the Toyota is a better vehicle. Put a couple hundred thousand on the Porsche and then compare.

The law of diminishing returns most certainly applies here.

Zeiss
Swarovski
Meopta
IOR
US Optics
Nightforce
Steiner
Kahles
Burris
Leupold
Weaver (pushing it, but it is 90% there).
etc.

Is S&B worth the money? Show of hands here. How many people own one? I'll bet not too many. They aren't that expensive. If it were truly worth the money, more people would own own one.

Zak Smith
October 4, 2007, 05:41 PM
The S&B PMII has features even the $1000-2000 scopes generally do not have. (besides things like image quality, reliability, etc.) Also, if you spec out a comparable USO SN3, the price will be within about 10%.

TheShootist1894
October 4, 2007, 05:42 PM
Make two car payments, buy a Leupold, and call me in the morning if the thought of buying a BS. . . oh i mean a SB, has not subsided:what::banghead:

GunTech
October 4, 2007, 05:55 PM
The law of diminishing returns most certainly applies here.

Zeiss
Swarovski
Meopta
IOR
US Optics
Nightforce
Steiner
Kahles
Burris
Leupold
Weaver (pushing it, but it is 90% there).
etc.


Try dealing with Meopta or IOR's customer service. I put USO way above them for that reason.

GunTech
October 4, 2007, 06:01 PM
The correct answer to is S&B worth the money depends on who you are and what you do - the same for any high end optic. Once you start shoot 1000 yards plus, you'll understand why people pay exobitant money for good glass.

Even at 100 yards put up a resolution test target and compare scopes. It's easy to see the difference.

Yes, for most people a cheap scope is 'good enough'. Most animals killed each hunting season are probably targeted thorugh scopes costing under $100. I certainly don't advocate spending $2500+ on a scope. But there are times when you'll appreciate it.

Most people don't need a formular 1 race car either, unless you happen to be racing formula one. It's the same situation.

atblis
October 4, 2007, 10:09 PM
Try dealing with Meopta or IOR's customer service.
I didn't know they had customer service in the US.

Most people don't need a formular 1 race car either, unless you happen to be racing formula one. It's the same situation.
Again, not a relavent comparison at all

Honda Accord v. F1 car Huge difference in price and performance

Zeiss v. S&B much smaller price difference, marginal performance difference.

Mute
October 5, 2007, 01:35 AM
Of those listed, IOR and USO are the only other two manufacturer's besides S&B that offers FFP reticles, and mil based reticles. Zeiss and Swarovski can probably match S&B's optical quality but doesn't offer certain options. So unless you're comparing like features I don't see how you can actually say how one scope is worth such and such and another isn't.

Just because a person doesn't need certain features it doesn't mean it's not worth the cost. It just means those features are of no benefit or value to the person that doesn't need it.

As for Meopta scopes. Good scopes, but not close to S&B's quality by a long shot.

Zak Smith
October 5, 2007, 01:41 AM
A friend of mine broke a Meopta within 700 rounds on an AR-15.

taliv
October 5, 2007, 03:21 PM
Of those listed, IOR and USO are the only other two manufacturer's besides S&B that offers FFP reticles, and mil based reticles.

almost

http://www.leupold.com/_pdfs/L248-008014_Mk4_LRT_FF_SS.pdf

Mute
October 5, 2007, 03:25 PM
My bad. Forgot to include Leupold.

atblis
October 5, 2007, 05:59 PM
Zeiss does
Weaver does
I think Meopta might.

Mute
October 6, 2007, 02:37 AM
The only Zeiss with a FFP mil dot reticle is a $3000 scope. That's even more than S&B. There's no such thing as a free lunch. When you get glass of that quality and the same types of feature, you're going to be paying similar prices.

jmorris
October 6, 2007, 09:35 AM
Some of what’s in this thread reminds me of the guy that was selling his 50bmg because it kept turning his BSA’s into kaleidoscopes. But, I wouldn’t put a S&B on a mini 14 any sooner than I’d put retreads on a racecar. But if you want top shelf performance your product needs to come from the top shelf. Now you need to be honest, on most rifles a S&B would be like icing on a turd.

atblis
October 6, 2007, 10:09 AM
The Zeiss 3-12x56 Classic Diavari with a #43 is in theory an $1800 scope. Never seen one though, so it could be one of those cases where the Manufacturer lists it, but they don't really exist.

I actually find the Weaver most curious. They're usually quite decent scopes. The adjustments usually are spot on. The optical quality is discernably lower than the top notch stuff, but still quite good.

Though, despite all this I think the original post was talking about hunting scopes. In that case, S&B is most definitely not worth the money.

Specialized tactical/LR stuff, perhaps.

Mute
October 6, 2007, 02:11 PM
I definitely wouldn't buy the S&B PM scopes for hunting. They do have less expensive scopes that I think are good for hunting.

Ghost Tracker
October 12, 2007, 11:05 AM
You could make the argument that in many respects the Toyota is a better vehicle. Put a couple hundred thousand on the Porsche and then compare.

I've driven BOTH brands for well over "a couple hundred thousand" and my analogy still stands. My intended use is to cover miles driving an automobile. Both will do that. Maybe a better choice would have been a comparison between Rolex and a Seiko wrist watches. My intended use is to know what time it is. There's nothing wrong with a Seiko, in fact, it may actually (objectively) keep more accurate time than the Rolex. But if you're a fan of precision, hand-crafted devises (subjectively) the Rolex is the choice if you have the coin to afford one.

To hear you say that there are "plenty of scopes" as "good" as the S&B means I can only guess that you are a purely "objective" buyer. There's nothing WRONG with that. But does that mean you've never paid a premium for a rifle or shotgun with extra-nice wood? Because a synthetic stock will actually do everything just as well.

Dravur
October 13, 2007, 03:11 PM
[QUOTE][A friend of mine broke a Meopta within 700 rounds on an AR-15./QUOTE]

Was he shooting at the scope?

Zak Smith
October 14, 2007, 06:05 PM
Was he shooting at the scope?
No.

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