[Zundfolge]

...are we going to start big boycotts of any firearms manufacturer that makes compliant guns?

I believe we need to, even if we put someone big like Glock or S&W out of business.

If manufacturers comply in California you can be guaranteed that we'll see Microstamping laws all over the place ... if NOBODY complies then they lose a lot of momentum to get these laws passed elsewhere.

Any manufacturer that builds microstamping handguns is a traitor. Period.



So should we wait and see what happens, or should we start putting gun manufacturers on notice that there will be repercussions for making such guns?

[ArcherandShooter]

I think a boycott is a good idea, but if you boycott gun makers who are just trying to survive (however mis-guided you think they are) you will only make the CA gun-haters happy, happier than they will already be if the law passes, because this is their goal - to drive S&W, Glock, and every other manufacturer into the grave! :fire:

Instead, know who our enemied really are - the people and institutions of California who are attempting this back-door repeal of the 2nd amendment - and make them the target of our counter-action.

Just a few ideas of products and services that can be targeted to hit CA where it hurts - the wallet:

- ANY California city: don't vacation there, don't attend conventions there, work hard to convince companies and organizations you are part of to keep their conventions / meetings / user group conferences out of there. Then, write to the mayor of the city where you had been planning to go, and tell them of your cancelled plans, mentioning the amount of $$$ you would have otherwise spent there.

- California wine: there's lots of very good wine from other places

- Oranges and other fruits and juices, artichokes, garlic, iceberg lettuce, grapes, olives, almonds, etc, etc, etc that comes from California. The packaging will tell you where it is from, and there are alternatives to just about all of it. If there aren't, live without it.

- Movies: read a book, take a walk with your spouse, kids, and/or dog, go scouting for deer. Just stay out of the cineplex.

- Levi's jeans, Bank of America, and many other large corporations are headquartered in California. If they supported this travesty, let 'em have it.

And when you take these actions, WRITE a letter to the HQ of the companies concerned. Copy their local media. Copy the governor. Copy YOUR local media to try and stir up others to join the action.

"Know your target"
"Never pull the trigger until you are aiming at something you intend to shoot"

Firearms manufacturers shouldn't be in our sights.

[cavman]

I wrote Arnold last night and voted "con" to the microstamping resolution and sent a quick note to throw this out.

[url]http://gov.ca.gov/interact[/ur

(copy and paste http..to...interact in a new window)

[Zundfolge]

Firearms manufacturers shouldn't be in our sights.
I understand your point, but the only people that will have an impact on the spread of this law are the gun manufacturers.

Stop buying Levis but Glock makes microstamping guns and you'll see the microstamping spread. Stop buying Glocks and you may see other manufacturers decide not to make microstamping guns so it will be harder to pass these laws elsewhere. (please note I was using Glock as an example ... I have no idea where they stand on the issue).

If this law passes beyond California it will spread like wildfire. If we have to sacrifice a turncoat gun manufacturer (and there is NO gun manufacturer that will live or die based on their California sales) so be it. Make them choose between California and the rest of the US.

Conversely, if any gun manufacturer stands up to California in the way that Ronnie Barrett did and cuts off police sales and service to California we all need to support that company by buying their guns ... even if we don't need them (hey, its not like we don't all own guns we have no use for :evil: ).

[glockman19]

Guns Already on the DOJ Approved list are NOT affected therefore, you will be able to continue to buy all of your favorites as long as they don't fall off the list.

Believe me Manufacturers will just stop selling NEW guns in state. That's all. They won't comply and will just keep the guns already on the list.

The part that doesn't make sense is that PPT guns are Exempt ans are out-of-state firearms that are brought in by new residents. I guess anyone who is moving into state should buy off list pre 1471 guns to sell, at a premium, when they get here to off set moving costs.

[Zundfolge]

On a side note; Arnie lets this thing become law (or worse signs it into law) and he needs to be run out of the Republican party.

[Snowdiver]

My note to Arnold reminded him that I voted for him and I don't like this proposed law and all my friends don't either. It will be political suicide if he signs it.

[Fortyfied]

This webpage has instructions on making a call-in vote to an automated system for or against AB1471: http://www.gs2ac.com/

[Jim Diver]

Guns Already on the DOJ Approved list are NOT affected therefore, you will be able to continue to buy all of your favorites as long as they don't fall off the list.


Almost.. As I understand it they will have to submit to the stamp when they expire after a few years and have to resubmit to testing.

[Librarian]

Almost.. As I understand it they will have to submit to the stamp when they expire after a few years and have to resubmit to testing.Guns on the Roster need not meet any requirements added after they were added to the Roster, so long as the manufacturers keep paying the yearly 'fee'. The new requirements would apply only if a manufacturer allowed a gun to fall off the list and then wanted to re-add it.

Guns expire every year, unless renewed.

[glockman19]

Guns on the Roster need not meet any requirements added after they were added to the Roster, so long as the manufacturers keep paying the yearly 'fee'. The new requirements would apply only if a manufacturer allowed a gun to fall off the list and then wanted to re-add it.

Correct

[MrTuffPaws]

My note to Arnold reminded him that I voted for him and I don't like this proposed law and all my friends don't either. It will be political suicide if he signs it.

Hardly. Arnold's a Democrat now ;)

[Zundfolge]

Hardly. Arnold's a Democrat now ;)
Hell, Arnold's a Kennedy now :p

[Jim Diver]

You folx in FA need to vote to kick California out of the Union. It no longer is a part of the US in principal.

[glockman19]

Let's get back on target.

If it becomes law in CA then it will soon become law in your state.

As the Who said, "We Don't Get Fooled Again".

Let's stop the negative and focus on what we can do, "this is the Activism Forum".

Please call and vote in opposition of AB 1471

Phone: 916-445-2841
press 1 - For english
Press 2 - To voice opinion on an Assembly bill
press 1 - Assembly bill 1471 Firearm microstamping
Press 2 - If you Oppose

Thank You

[jeepmor]

Do what we can to stop it, but if it passes, do what we can to show how easily it's defeated. IIRC, it's a micro engraving, like that done with a Focused Ion Beam tool, and it can easily be negated.

You pull the firing pin, spin the primer contact surface on some 600+ grit sandpaper, and reassemble. You will very likely need a microscope to see the imprint in the first place. It will only be microns deep. A few microns off your firing pin will not affect its function.

I run focused ion beam tools for a living in the semiconductor industry, this is an easy fix. I know, I know, it's not the point, but should it come to that, I think it will be our duty to provide the documentation necessary to disassemble any microstamped firearm and negate this feature.

My fear is that manufacturers will comply, and ALL guns will have said microstamp. As I stated, you cannot see this stuff with the naked eye, and sometimes, barely even with an optical microscope.

[glockman19]

jeepmor,

But did you call?

[Sir Aardvark]

"Guns on the Roster need not meet any requirements added after they were added to the Roster, so long as the manufacturers keep paying the yearly 'fee'. The new requirements would apply only if a manufacturer allowed a gun to fall off the list and then wanted to re-add it."

Laws can be changed... don't think for a minute that this requirement won't be thrown out the window and the new microstamping law become effective for ALL firearms sold in California - rifles, shotguns, & handguns - once this thing passes.

Creeping Incrementalism, folks! They have already started nickel-and-diming to death our firearms rights in California - it's never gonna stop.

[Madmardig0n]

OK, let's say the microstamping bill in CA passes. I think that it is very unlikely that manufacturers will retool production lines to comply with this bill. IMO, it's more likely they will just stop selling in CA.

[dasmi]

Do what we can to stop it, but if it passes, do what we can to show how easily it's defeated. IIRC, it's a micro engraving, like that done with a Focused Ion Beam tool, and it can easily be negat
Or use a revolver.

[jeepmor]

jeepmor,

But did you call?

Yes, I did.

Or use a revolver.
Already seen plenty of news stories how the gangbangers are doing just such because of this issue.

[glockman19]

jeepmor,

thank you.

[Owens]

Called.

[Zundfolge]

glockman ... I too have called.

Still doesn't answer the question of what to do when this passes (the longer Arnie goes without vetoing it the less likely I believe he is to do it).

[glockman19]

Well, PPT's will still be legal. also if someone moves into state they will still be able to sell off list guns. I believe he will veto it and is signing many other Democratic bills so he can sign it Saturday and have that be that.

I have som more Info I'll PM you with.

[Librarian]

Laws can be changed... don't think for a minute that this requirement won't be thrown out the window and the new microstamping law become effective for ALL firearms sold in California - rifles, shotguns, & handguns - once this thing passes.True, but they won't be able to continue the fiction that the Roster is about "safety".

And it won't apply to about 30 million guns already here, and it won't be effective for the roughly 50,000 revolvers sold here annually, since they don't eject casings with every shot.

Arnold hasn't signed yet; please call and register opposition, please email and ask for a veto.

[M_Olson]

i dont have long distance, so i made a 10-10-220. my fingers are crossed.

[DomMega]

Well, I do think we have a little bit to worry about. These are some of Arnie's new friends.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1082/575351623_5019abf0e1_o.jpg

I think he is actually a democrat now and just plays the role of Republican, but he's not.

I read here that some of the members called gun manufacturers and Glock was one that said they would no longer back the law enforcement entities and other agencies dependent on them for servicing their weapons.

Either way, if this does pass, I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do. When the gun grabbers start grabbing guns, it might be time to move.

[Snowdiver]

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[MikeyLikesIt]

Why would a gun manufacturer even bother to make the mods to sell here in Kalif.?

I think they all will just boycott us.

[BobMcG]

Called.

[Scorpiusdeus]

Is it the guns serial number that will be imprinted? Where on the bullet or casing will it show up?

[MikeyLikesIt]

I think its the serial number, knowing these idiots they would want the owners name too.

I believe it would stamp the side of the case and the tip of the firing pin would stamp the primer on impact.

unless raised numbers are filed off

Pick up your brass at the range or you may get a visit when someone else picks it up and leaves it at a crime scene.

[Zundfolge]

Well ... Arnie did it ... now what?

[average_shooter]

Is it the guns serial number that will be imprinted? Where on the bullet or casing will it show up?

According to a video posted on the Brady Bunch's main page, the number will be stamped on the primer from the firing pin and perhaps from the breech face, and on the headstamp from the ejector. Also, a type of radial bar-code will be embedded in the primer around the number. It's weird. It did appear to me to be easily defeated.

[gyp_c2]

Well ... Arnie did it ... now what?
I dunno' yet...I guess it'll be headed this way now...I'd support a buy for boycotters or a boycott for bootlickers, sucks big time and I feel for those stuck in Cali'...Thing is, a ton of 'em have moved this way and the front range is lookin' more and more like a lil' California 'burb...One thing's for sure, we have got to make our reps aware of our anger @ this crap...I'm still mad about the state bill that puts our CCW into the database like criminals...It's gonna' be a long year...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif