Okay, folks. Let's keep it clean.


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Aaryq
October 7, 2007, 03:29 AM
Howdy, folks. Let's keep it clean. I go to Iraq in about 10 days. I'll be in Iraq during the rainy season/winter. I need to keep my weapon clean but CLP will attract dust (I've seen some sand storm vids). what wnould you say to help me keep my M16 in a good operating condition without using a wet lube on the rifle? It can't be dry and covered in dust because I'll get in trouble for that too. What techniques/tools would you use to help me.

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kd7nqb
October 7, 2007, 03:40 AM
Ok so I dont know, I do however know that there are a LOT of similar weapons in Iraq so why not just ask the guy next to you when you get there or someone who has deployed before.

Or there is the tried and true method, find yourself and AK. Ok I know you cant do that but it does solve your initial issue.

billdeserthills
October 7, 2007, 03:40 AM
I'm a Locksmith/Gun Dealer in Arizona, I use a lot of graphite to keep locks working smoothly, same problem your gun has, lots of dust blowing over here, if I use an oil based lube, locks get gummed up. Other thing useful is a dry-lube, Superlube makes one, it is alcohol based with Teflon in it, sprays on, let it dry,
it will leave some white marks from the teflon.

jpcampbell
October 7, 2007, 07:17 AM
First good luck, kd7nqb is right check with the guys their, your rifle should only need three drops of lube one each in the two holes on the bolt carrier and one down the gas tube extension on the bolt carrier. I carried a m-16 for 16 years from Viet Nam to Alaska and put thousands of rounds through them with out problem, over lubrication is one reason for malfunctions.

rero360
October 7, 2007, 07:32 AM
well, I'll be leaving the sandbox in about 10 days, perhaps our paths will cross along the way.

I used militec with great results. I got my M4 brand new, I cleaned off all the packing grease, then wiped everything down with the militec. I put about two layers of militec on then after that just put it on wear parts, I never had any problems of the weapon jamming or anything.

Hokkmike
October 7, 2007, 07:34 AM
Others will give you the needed info; I just want to say thank you for your service!

sanchezero
October 7, 2007, 09:21 AM
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/2071025143

I used to be a dry guy but I had problems while in Afghanistan. I'm a wet guy now and currently in Iraq and have no issues. I carry lube in my rack and occasionally give it a squirt when I don't have anything better to do.

:)

Have fun.

GRIZ22
October 7, 2007, 11:40 AM
The answer to the problem of keeping your weapon dry and lubed is Drislide.

https://www.russack.com/view_doc.php?view_doc=7&PHPSESSID=3af766a3e14515b9dc6c32acd522dcb6#anchor_12

This takes you to the gun lubricant page. I used it in Vietnam (the dust can be pretty bad there). You squirt it on and the vehicle evaporates leaving a dry molydendum lubricant. A small bottle lasts some time as you only use it for lubricant.

Give them a call for case pricing (a case will probably last a year). they used to give discounts shipping to APOs or FPOs so it's worth asking.

Not a new product just one that works.

Thanks for your service and stay safe.

Heavy Metal Hero
October 7, 2007, 11:42 AM
Graphite.

highfive
October 7, 2007, 12:27 PM
Well Aaryq... I went to Iraq twice and basically what work for me was, I basically cleaned my rifle throughly every time I went out and most of the time every day, never had a jam or nothing.
That's what worked for me . Hey good luck out there and remember don't trust anybody. They want to be friendly, don't trust them. Trust your family that's about it. God bless buddy

waterhouse
October 7, 2007, 12:28 PM
I won't presume to know what is best for your weapon in your conditions, but stay safe and thank you for your service.

Ragnar Danneskjold
October 7, 2007, 12:30 PM
Or there is the tried and true method, find yourself and AK. Ok I know you cant do that but it does solve your initial issue.

I think he wants to hit what he's firing at though :P

Harley Quinn
October 7, 2007, 12:50 PM
Others will give you the needed info; I just want to say thank you for your service!

Also

bogie
October 7, 2007, 12:54 PM
You'll use whatever the guys who yell a lot give you, and like it.

Bartkowski
October 7, 2007, 12:57 PM
I am surprised it took so long for someone to say thanks. So thank you for doing what you do.


EDIT: You'll use whatever the guys who yell a lot give you, and like it.

If that is a joke it's not funny, and no matter what it is, it's neither respectful nor appreciated.

Harley Quinn
October 7, 2007, 01:14 PM
You'll use whatever the guys who yell a lot give you, and like it.

Well the response is old school and might have been correct before they started talking about thinking for ones-self of late.

The Corps has changed, it is still the same regarding many things:uhoh:

So I can understand where this quote is coming from for sure.;)

You have to had been there:banghead:

HQ

RLsnow
October 7, 2007, 01:37 PM
i found the comment fairly amusing...but then again i treat humor as humor :P

bogie
October 7, 2007, 03:10 PM
Oh, fahchrissake. The US Military is NOT what you see in the video games, the television and movies, or read about in the comics.

When you get to your area of operations, there will likely be an AO specific method of cleaning/lubrication specced for your hardware. This likely has been tested, and works. If it doesn't work, you will hear via Rumor Control about what actually does work, and someone, possibly the same person who told you about the approved method, will provide you with What Works.

It ain't all that hard. And "thinking for yourself" only goes so far, because there's always gonna be some Private Numbnuts who read on the internet that the best lube for his weapon is toothpaste or preparation H, and if allowed to _continue_ to think for himself, will persist until he becomes a casualty, and a hindrance to his unit's integrity. He is not supposed to become a casualty. And he is not supposed to, through his slackness of becoming a casualty, allow other members of his unit to become casualties. So pay attention to the guys who yell a lot.

benEzra
October 7, 2007, 03:29 PM
DoD has recently reversed itself on the "dry rifle vs. wet rifle" thing. They used to recommend that the rifle be kept as dry as possible to theoretically keep dirt/dust from sticking, but the current thinking is that if you actually do get dirt/dust in the receiver, the rifle needs plenty of lubrication in order to keep the sand/dirt/dust from locking up the rifle. So the DoD recommendation is shifting toward the idea of lubing heavily, although it may still be filtering down to the unit level, and I'm not sure if Marine maintenance doctrine has changed yet.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/07/army_carbine_lubrication_070716/

Heavy lubrication shown to improve M16, M4 effectiveness

By Matthew Cox - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Jul 16, 2007 17:34:05 EDT

Army weapons officials might have found a way to improve the M16 family’s performance in the desert.

“Dust chamber” tests at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Md., last year show that M16 rifles and M4 carbines perform dramatically better when the weapon’s bolt assembly is heavily lubricated.

During each phase of the two-part “system assessment” at Army Test and Evaluation Command, testers fired 60,000 rounds through 10 weapon samples of each model.

Treated with light lubrication, new M16A4s and M4s, performed poorly in the extreme dust and sand conditions of the test, according to a January report from ATEC.

But when testers applied a heavy coat of lubrication to the weapons, the test results showed a “significant improvement.”

Out of the 60,000 rounds fired in each phase, the M4 stoppage-rate dropped from 9,836 with light lubrication to 678 with heavy lubrication.

The M16A4 stoppage-rate dropped from 2,124 with light lubrication to 507 with heavy lubrication, results show.

For years, Army weapons officials have preached to soldiers to virtues of applying a light coat of lubrication during weapons maintenance.

But the test results reinforce a recent change in weapons maintenance guidance Army units are practicing in Iraq and Afghanistan, said Col. Carl Lipsit, project manager for Soldier Weapons.

Note the date, though--this change is VERY recent.

Whatever you end up doing, stay safe, and thanks for your service.

Jinzoningen80
October 7, 2007, 04:17 PM
+1 for militec - When we got to our FOB in iraq, there was an endless supply of this stuff. The key is to read the directions and apply it in a very THIN layer. Too many guys used it like CLP and coated everything in it. If you do it right, dust wont stuck to it.

The guy who runs owns the company has been really great. He sent my unit 2 cases of the stuff when we redeployed back home and had to go back to CLP. I use it on ALL my personal and professional weapons.

wideym
October 7, 2007, 04:45 PM
Make sure you clean and inspect your rifle every other day. I don't know how many times we would see Fobbits carrying around rifles with enough dust to grow corn on. It only takes 10 min. to make sure your weapon will work when you need it. If you leadership is ignoring the problem, tell them.

For everybody who wants to express their thanks, CALL your congressman and DEMAND a pay raise for servicemen.

koja48
October 7, 2007, 04:54 PM
1) Good Luck
2) Thanks to you & all of the others for your service
3) Listen to the voices of experience.

God Bless you all.

SaMx
October 7, 2007, 05:04 PM
I just want to add, come home safe! we want you to keep posting here :)

bogie
October 7, 2007, 05:25 PM
Yeah - as many of y'all know, the military is best defined as "a few seconds of excitement, surrounded by hour upon hour of 'Hurry up and wait.'"

If you're sitting, make a habit of at least pulling your bolt and clearing any crap out of it. Brush/blow the crud outta the trigger group while you're at it.

Takes 30 seconds to a minute, and you're good...

If you are in a small unit leadership role, get your guys into the habit of every time you have a "smoke 'em if you got 'em" break, a third does a quick clean, then the next, and then the next... Not talking CSM inspection-time here - just making sure stuff is operational.

A pull-through kit probably won't make a lot of difference here - you're not concerned about the bore (just watch for obstructions).

And pay attention to the folks who've been in theatre for a while...

Ragnar Danneskjold
October 7, 2007, 05:43 PM
Maybe a brush with lots of large bristles, like a shaving brush. I've heard that they are good for getting sand and dust of parts in a hurry.

Mannlicher
October 7, 2007, 06:01 PM
you could consult your unit armorer...................

DC3-CVN-72
October 7, 2007, 06:36 PM
Hey, Harley Quinn, Golden Shellback. That's a rare crustation. I'm just a regular kind of Shellback. I would like to take the time to thank you and all my fellow veterans for their service.

hksw
October 7, 2007, 08:56 PM
what wnould you say to help me keep my M16 in a good operating condition without using a wet lube on the rifle? It can't be dry and covered in dust because I'll get in trouble for that too. What techniques/tools would you use to help me.

I hear picking up an AK and using that instead will keep your M16 clean.

KC&97TA
October 7, 2007, 10:37 PM
I hear picking up an AK and using that instead will keep your M16 clean.

Good way to get shot at, by friendly fire or pick up a boobie-traped weapon.

"TW-25" we're haveing good luck with it, it hasn't integrated through out the entire Marine Corps though. The Air Wing had been useing it for a few years, it's makeing it's way to the ground side slowly. It is like LSA-T, but a little thinner, it bakes into the metal, it does attract a bit of dust, but nothing like CLP. The Air Wing has it, about the only thing tactical I've ever learned from that side of the house, so if your lucky enough to get time on the FOB with BOB, try to track down one of the door gunners, they buy it by the gallon, but it does come in tubes and small bottles.

You have to clean a M16 daily, weather it's a A2, A4, M4, M41, SR-25, MK-11, they're just designed to be a tight rifle. Seems like a pain in the butt, but the accuracy you get out of them puts the AK to shame.

Use compressed air to clean the dust off, 7 ton air compressor, some of that canned air they use on computers or a small air compressor for a nail gun. Get one of those plastic barrel caps, (you can shoot through them) that keeps the bore almost clean, if you can't find one of those caps, just use black duct tape, the mag well is just a magnet for crap to get under the bolt and into the bolt lugs, not much you can do there, but if you're out of the wire alot it really does stay cleaner than strolling around the FOB.

21H40
October 7, 2007, 10:48 PM
Don't forget to check your mags. They get sand and dust build up, too. Also, the first bit of ammo my squad was issued had several rounds with dents and corrosion. I was even issued a mag with a dent that stopped the follower after the 5th round. Its always better to find those things before you leave the wire.

I had my squad wipe out the upper and the bolt each time before we loaded up to leave. We just used a dry cloth to wipe off the dry dust and sand, and then lightly oiled the bolt (AND SHUT THE DUST COVER).

Don't stress too badly, there are many ways to keep the tools working, but absolutely ask the guys doing "cordon and search" when you get there. They should've seen several things that work (and some that don't).

Let us know if there's anything lacking at the PX when you get there!

Flak_Jakett
October 8, 2007, 12:39 AM
Okay I spent about 14 months in Sadaam's ash tray. Here's the scoop.

Make sure you clean and inspect your rifle every other day.

You should inspect your weapon at the mimimum of once per day. I suggest cleaning and inspecting your weapon 2-3 times per day. More if the wind and sand is kicking up. At the end of your shift before you hit the rack inspect the weapon clean it and apply a light layer of lube to keep it while you sleep. When you wake up wipe off the oil and apply dry powdered graphite. Again PMCS, functions check, and clean.

performed poorly in the extreme dust and sand conditions of the test, according to a January report from ATEC.


What kind of extreme dust and sand conditions can you create in a facility in Aberdeen? I picture of a bunch of dorito munching pogues in full tactical gear tossing sand into a fan while their buddy is shooting and missing his qual target at 25 meters.

The numbers are stunning in the test though. With light lube about 1 out of every 6 shots malfunctioned. That ate up like a soup sandwich. With heavy lube the thing still experienced stoppage at an around 1% of the time. That's about .99% too many. I'd say stick with the powder graphite. I think the stoppage rate I personally experienced with powder graphite was... I can't remember the exact amount, but I only had 2 stoppages, both had to do with crappy old dinged up magazines, which was the leading cause of malfunctions in my platoon. They should test the graphite next.

So pay attention to the guys who yell a lot.

Alot of those guys yell "Don't forget to put a light lube on your weapons!!!!"
Guess those pogues in Aberdeen proved them wrong though eh?

Of course if you listen to me when I was yelling it went something like this...

"Why do I smell CLP on your weapon?!?!?! Your as smart as a box of rocks!!! Use your brain for something besides keeping your ears apart and reclean and administer graphite to that rifle!!! When Al attacks I don't want my wife to get all of my life insurance because you couldn't kill im before he killed me so get it into shape before I make you probe a mine field pollock style!"

As for tricks for cleaning your weapon. Cotton swabs, Q-tips, pipe cleaners, bore patches toothbrushes, good ol' fashioned elbow grease, and if your anal like me about a clean weapon some dental picks.

+1 for the air compressor. The back of Hemmets have a compressor perfect for use in weapon cleaning.

KC&97TA
October 8, 2007, 01:34 AM
What kind of extreme dust and sand conditions can you create in a facility in Aberdeen? I picture of a bunch of dorito munching pogues in full tactical gear tossing sand into a fan while their buddy is shooting and missing his qual target at 25 meters.


LMAO...

Harley Quinn
October 8, 2007, 01:49 AM
This makes some sense to me for sure. Bottom line clean it at the end of the day and lube it up again.
Works for farm equipment.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/07/army_carbine_lubrication_070716/

DC3-CVN-72
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-crossing_ceremony

;) "Salty/old salt" is another term some of us can say, golden or regular many miles on the sea and lots of countries, paid for by my favorite uncle:) That time we were headed for Australia :D They mention the event as being brutal, yes you could say that:what: Yes, Marines, got special treatment:uhoh:

I truly am lucky, I hope the PO is as fortunate.
When in Red sea and Suez canal, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sea
it was hot and not real friendly, and we were at sea, that location he is headed for is one that will test him for sure.

HQ

sixgunner455
October 8, 2007, 01:59 AM
Keep it wet, keep it wiped free of dust. Check both at least one time daily.

God bless.

possum
October 8, 2007, 02:24 AM
i have been there once and curently on rxr from my second deployment, i use militec, and it does great, i keep my weapon clean and well lubed and i have not had a problem yet. depending on where i am working depends how much lube i use. i am an nco and i guarantee you that if you were one of my soliders i would square you away and teach you the tricks. i am here as much as possible if you need help in the future, or now in any area, let me know.

MikePGS
October 8, 2007, 02:28 AM
Take care of yourself over there aarq, and thank you for your service.

bogie
October 8, 2007, 04:23 AM
What kind of extreme dust and sand conditions can you create in a facility in Aberdeen?

I'm guessing they probably threw a lot more at them than you'll ever see, Private... I'm picturing more of a sandblast chamber... Then again, I have friends who are military contractors, and I know what the gear goes through before it hits the sandbox. I've never seen Doritos involved, and I'd wager that far over 99.99% of the individuals involved are +highly+ into a zero defect mode, because they know where the things are going.

At any rate, our service member needs to pay attention to his NCOs (especially if he are an ossifer), and do what they tell him. Because that'll more than likely be what works.

He sure as **** don't need to be getting his SOP off the internet.

wideym
October 8, 2007, 05:04 AM
Flak Jacket: Saddam's ashtray is good. Seemed more like Saddam's Outhouse to me.:)

I never had a problem with every other day inspect and cleaning, that was with three patols a day. Although it was in the Adhamia district in Baghdad. We never ran into boobytrapped weapons, they were generally still warm from the mofos shooting at us. A Seal instructor training new guys at Ft. Chaffee did show us how they boobytraped AKs, two rounds in the gas tube and when you release the charging handle the first round strikes the primer of the second.

HeXeD775
October 8, 2007, 08:05 AM
God Luck, God bless you & Thank You! please be back home safe.

wheelgunslinger
October 8, 2007, 08:25 AM
Try a pantyhose leg.
This worked well back in 91 on the bolt rifles and brass pukers.

But, maybe that's old school and irrelevant now.

Whatever the case, good luck, shoot straight, and be always ready.

hksw
October 8, 2007, 12:58 PM
Good way to get shot at, by friendly fire or pick up a boobie-traped weapon.

I don't use those emoticons much but maybe I should have put one of these in my post: :p or :D

RyanM
October 8, 2007, 06:45 PM
I think Eezox forms a dry layer, sorta like Militech. Neither of them are much of a cleaner, though, compared to CLP.

Black Knight
October 8, 2007, 07:26 PM
I am a DA Civilian Police Officer and my facility sends soldiers over quite often. Being one of the armorers for the police force I clean and lube most if not all our weapons. We also issue M9's (Beretta 92FS) to those from our facility going overseas. We use Militec-1. It is soybean based, does not attract dirt or sand. It will eventually saturate the pores in the metal and will need to be lubed less. You should be able to get through normal military supply channels. If not check out their web site and they will do their best to get it to you. We have had nothing but great results with it and we have been using it since 2004.

808_guy
October 9, 2007, 05:20 AM
Listen to your team leader. Do what he says when it comes to weapons maintenance. He knows everything and will more than likely save your life more than once. Mine did.

Barber's brushes with a few drops of CLP work wonders on keeping the dusties off and lubing the insides. Too much CLP is just as bad as none at all in a dusty environment.

Flak_Jakett
October 9, 2007, 06:49 PM
I'm guessing they probably threw a lot more at them than you'll ever see, Private... Actually that's SSG. Call me a private and I'll ask you to drop and give me 5 million.


and I'd wager that far over 99.99% of the individuals involved are +highly+ into a zero defect mode, because they know where the things are going.

I wonder how much money you would have lost when the stryker came out?

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