quite surprised


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QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
October 8, 2007, 11:57 PM
well i was at work today and had nothing going on so i asked the owner if he minded if i carried while at work, and before he said anything i also added that if he didn't want me to it was not a problem at all.

well he said no, not any problem by me ill just leave it in my car.

so about 30minutes later he turns to me and asks why i am going to carry and i try to go into my explanation why i want to carry as well as a right of being a free person of the USA (personal protection in the area we work litalone ive grown up with my grandfather being police and a marine and being around firearms my whole life)

he freaks out and starts yelling at me (korean man in mid 30's multiple martial arts background) so i let him finish and then ask him why did you take martial arts, was it disiplin? was it a good work out? or was it also to be able to protect ones self and family. he shakes his head and just says stupid white people, because you see one person carrying their gun you think its cool and what if you get into a fight you will just pull it and kill the person.

once again i try to explain that i need to feel eminate danger for me to leagally draw my weapon and fire. and i also added that if its a fist fight, i will throw down and scrap with them (6 years muy thai kick boxing, 5 years tae kwon do, and highschool wresling), but if i am being beaten into abolivioun by 5 people, yes i woul draw.

so i dunno all my family seems fine with it even though my mom didn't like the idea at first she is fine now. is this common i have no problem with him being ANTI or not wanting it in the building.

but who else has come into a problem like this or delt with someone so closed minded.

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yesit'sloaded
October 9, 2007, 12:06 AM
i will throw down and scrap with them (6 years muy thai kick boxing, 5 years tae kwon do, and highschool wresling),
No offense, but that is a great way to lose your weapon and have it used on you. Just remind him that if he does not allow you to carry that he is responsible for your safety while you are at work.

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
October 9, 2007, 12:10 AM
very true about me fighting while armed but i was just trying to get a point acrost.

and i have explaind that he is liable for my safety while im at work and he again shakes his head and walks away.

Kentak
October 9, 2007, 12:13 AM
Just remind him that if he does not allow you to carry that he is responsible for your safety while you are at work.

Do you have any case law to cite where that was successfully asserted?

K

yesit'sloaded
October 9, 2007, 12:17 AM
Not off the top of my head. I wonder where the legal eagles on the board are?

Jorg Nysgerrig
October 9, 2007, 01:29 AM
Just remind him that if he does not allow you to carry that he is responsible for your safety while you are at work.

This statement is wrong. First, it implies that if he does allow you to carry, he is not repsonsible for your safety. This is not true. Whether or not he allows you to carry, your employer only has to provide a reasonable standard of care when it comes to safety and security. Not allowing to carry is does not flip some magic switch that holds them to a higher standard.

Oleg Volk
October 9, 2007, 02:16 AM
My suggestion would be to try salvaging the situation by explaining in very few paragraphs that any use of force would be undertaken reluctantly and only if no other options to preserve life remain.

HKUSP45C
October 9, 2007, 08:43 AM
Not off the top of my head. I wonder where the legal eagles on the board are?
Edit: Jorg beat me to it and explained reasonable care better than I did.

They won't find any either. It simply doesn't exist to the best of my knowledge. Believe me, I've looked, a lot, because I see this argument, a lot.

Nobody at your place of employment is responsible for your safety. (OSHA regs and negligence or fraud aside)

It's a simple legal theory really, since you aren't required by virtue of your employers ownership of you to be there, you can leave anytime you'd like. Therefore, your employer is not putting you in undue harm's way against your will. Therefore, he's not responsible for your safety from crazy people, criminals, the flu, hang nails, falling over when you nod off .... ect.

Even on the off chance you got the job and there was no mention of a weapons policy, your employer can change the employment contract anytime he wishes. You can too, by the way.

So, no, your employer could not, under any legal theory I'm aware of, be held liable for your injury due to following a "no weapons" policy at work.

IANAL, YMMV, FWIW

Back to the topic:
Yes, I've had and have employers who are ignorant and abusive, just like the one you described. I just cashed their checks after selling them my time and went home without another thought wasted on them. I'm in a much better place now.

cambeul41
October 9, 2007, 09:01 AM
See this:

10 things non-gun people should know about CWP holders.

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176240

RoadkingLarry
October 9, 2007, 10:31 AM
he shakes his head and just says stupid white people,

Get a good shyster and sue him for racial discrimination and hostile work environment. Take his business and then do as you please.

Black Knight
October 9, 2007, 11:01 AM
Why not find a class nearby and take him to it. Pay his expenses for the class. That way he will personally know what it takes to carry and use (hopefully will never need) legally. Some folks from overseas view the handgun as a symbol of authority. In their native country the cops (sometimes they are the military) may be extremely corrupt and abusive. They may feel that anyone who carries a gun is the same.

40SW
October 9, 2007, 11:09 AM
Based on what you said., you are not going to change his mind and he is not going to change yours. The relationship is probably beyond repair. There is most likely a language barrier as well. He also resorted to racial bigotry against you. The best you can do is leave there and find another job.
Word of advice. Don't discuss cwp with your employer. Find out what the policy is and adhere to it. If there is no policy, comply with the applicable state and federal laws. (that includes carrying, you are not a psychic).
Your attitude of martial arts bravado is not conducive to your safety. Your number one priority should be threat assesment and not the use of force( physical or ballistic) necessarily as a first option, unless it escalates to that.
You need to be aware of issues like weapons retention and escalation. Be careful out there and reexamine your mindset.

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
October 9, 2007, 11:59 PM
thanks for the help everyone, i agree with you 40SW,

he is quite racist, but i am the kind of person that i just go on with my work, i get yelled at almost every day from the guy but ive been there over a year. im just getting to the point that im just about to turn in my snap-on tool box i just bought and say screw it and quit.

Guitargod1985
October 10, 2007, 03:08 AM
he shakes his head and just says stupid white people

That's just wrong. I'm sorry, but if your boss was caucasian and he had uttered the same sort of comment toward an employee of Asian descent, that employee would own his own business in a short time. I'm so sick of these double standards. Along the same lines, when was the last time you heard of a man suing a woman for sexual harrassment? You can't tell me that a woman never harrasses a man.

It really irritates me how a some people in our society want to blame everything on the "white man." I suppose some people will never wrap their ignorant heads around the fact that it is an INDIVIDUAL who is at fault in a given situation (not saying you did anything wrong in this situation), not some group that they happen to belong to. Just because Hitler was Austrian and a Protestant, does it logically follow that all Protestants or Austrians are evil? No.

I'd say this boss of yours needs a real education - and not just about firearms.

rrruuunnn
October 10, 2007, 03:18 AM
i'm was just curious. what kinda of business are you working at?

ExtremeDooty
October 10, 2007, 03:49 AM
I wouldn't have brought up the subject in the first place, especially with someone that can fire me on a whim.

If it's not posted or clearly stated in a readily available company policy handbook, keep it concealed and keep it quiet.

Robert Hairless
October 10, 2007, 05:15 AM
well i was at work today and had nothing going on so i asked the owner if he minded if i carried while at work, and before he said anything i also added that if he didn't want me to it was not a problem at all.

The result of your impulsive behavior is that you relieved your boredom. Now you have something going on. :)

AntiqueCollector
October 10, 2007, 08:39 AM
he is quite racist, but i am the kind of person that i just go on with my work, i get yelled at almost every day from the guy but ive been there over a year. im just getting to the point that im just about to turn in my snap-on tool box i just bought and say screw it and quit.

I'd go after him for the racism.

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
October 10, 2007, 01:15 PM
i work in a automotive performance shop.

there is no "policy" on any thing, no osha signs posted, nothing is state or federal complyant with regards to building/ working enviroment.

anyways i was simply asking a question to see if he was ok with it or not. if not then its left in my car which is NOT a problem with me at all. i understand some people don't like guns and some do, i dont care ether way.

DoubleTapDrew
October 10, 2007, 04:50 PM
what if you get into a fight you will just pull it and kill the person.


The people that say things along this line are just projecting their own lack of self control or discipline.

30 cal slob
October 10, 2007, 04:58 PM
Koreans are a stubborn lot. i can say that with impunity and authority. :evil:

on top of it, Korean immigrants bring their anti mentality with them to the U.S. ("only the police should have guns.")

there is no real gun ownership in Korea.

you won't change his mind overnight.

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
October 10, 2007, 05:36 PM
i don't care if i do or don't its his decision, i can only defend my beliefs not try to change his.

AntiqueCollector
October 10, 2007, 06:05 PM
I don't quite understand why you'd tolerate his bigotry or the possibly dangerous working conditions (you said nothing is state or federal compliant so I'll assume you mean safety wise). I'd carry anyways and if he retaliated sue him for racism and get the government on him for not complying with any safety regs.

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
October 10, 2007, 09:43 PM
believe me i have thought about it, but i love the work i do building high horse power cars and stuff like that. this is why i spent over 30$K on school to do this and this is the top shop in the pacific northwest really.

but if it ever does come to a blowing point i wouldn't do anything just pick up and move on. i don't like to go after people or anything like that, i dont like bad karma.

and he said if he catches me carrying while at work i will be fired on the spot.

RoadkingLarry
October 10, 2007, 10:32 PM
Next time Kim Jong Ill Jr. threatens to fire you tell him the day he fires you, you call OSHA and fill them in about all the noncompliance in his shop and your next call will be to file racial harassment and hostile work environment complaint. Of course you will very likely have the opportunity to back that up in short order:neener:

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