6.5x55 Swedish Mauser...need advice


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Stinkyshoe
July 11, 2003, 11:28 PM
I found a 6.5x55 Carl Gutstafs Stads M96 Swedish Mauser brand new in the cosmoline for sale. The guy wants $250 for it. Is this a fair price? I have heard a lot of great things about this caliber. What do you guys know about it? I want it for deer hunting, and target shooting. Please give me some input on the pros and cons.
Thanks a bunch
Ss
Ps Wow is the barrel long on this thing!

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DnPRK
July 11, 2003, 11:46 PM
If it is all matching and has a good bore, then $250 is a steal. They are getting hard to find in good condition. Please do not bubba-ize it as it will continue to increase in value. Taking a hacksaw to it or drilling for a scope mount will destroy it's collector value.

BusMaster007
July 12, 2003, 12:32 AM
:what:
What are you WAITING FOR? Christmas? That IS Christmas! :D

Go for it before someone else does.
If it is what you say it is, cleaning it and shooting it will be a pleasure.
Good deal!

Wildalaska
July 12, 2003, 01:39 AM
Great rifle, if ya wanna go deer hunting with one I have a semi sporterized one I will trade ya....

WildloveswedesAlaska

OEF_VET
July 12, 2003, 04:36 AM
I bought a short barrelled Swede (I guess a Mdl. 38) last year in a pawn shop in Maine for $75.00, so I guess I really got a steal. It has a new, hand made stock on it, but the individual was thoughtful enough to put the disc on the new stock. It's a real nice rifle, especially given the price I paid.

Frank

Mesa
July 12, 2003, 06:36 AM
Yeah I found one in a pawn shop a few weeks back and figured it was $300+. I asked the guy behind the counter about it and he said he'd have to get $100 for it. I couldn't believe it! I checked it over and rechecked it. I couldn't find anything wrong with it at all. It was in very good shape. I purchased it right away. Shoots like a demon, recoil is practically nil, and looks great to boot!

ACP
July 12, 2003, 07:29 AM
Sounds like a good deal. Check this site for more info:
http://www.samcoglobal.com/rifles.html#m96

mete
July 12, 2003, 08:26 AM
The 6.5x55 is a fine cartridge, exceptionally accurate,still used for serious target shooting. An off the shelf rifle should give you 1" groups, a good one 1/2". I used it for deer hunting for many years. The 140 gr bullet has high ballistic coefficient and sectional density which does a great job without much recoil or muzzle blast. About 10 years ago they reduced the loads as it was then 100 years old. But if your gun is new it will take loads of 48,00 psi max. Buy it.

jem375
July 12, 2003, 10:51 AM
You will probably have to get a taller front sight to bring the point of impact down...........I did with mine since it shot so high.......

Mike Irwin
July 12, 2003, 12:11 PM
If you don't buy it, I shall slap you silly.

As for the cartridge, you can do some wonderful things with it. Very accurate, almost no recoil, easy on powder if you reload. It's one of those cartridges that someone on a budget could take just about anywhere in the lower 48 and take just about any game with.

I'd hesitate to try bashing an Elk or Moose, but if I had the right bullets and a perfect shot it wouldn't be out of the question.

M67
July 13, 2003, 01:20 PM
I'd hesitate to try bashing an Elk or Moose I have seen a couple of surveys that indicate that the 6.5x55 is used to take close to one third of the moose shot in Scandinavia. The numbers may not be quite up to date, more hunters are using "new" calibers just because they can, the shiny new toy syndrome. But even if the number is somewhat less than a third, and considering that the cartidge is less popular in Finland since they never used it as a military round, the number of moose taken with it is considerable. The total number of moose taken in Norway, Sweden and Finland combined is somewhere around 220,000-230,000 per year, give or take a few. 50,000 moose killed by the "six-and-a-half" can't all be wrong... :)

AC
July 13, 2003, 01:48 PM
Dave Scovill in his column in Rifle or Handloader (he's the editor) in the past year recorded information sent to him from Norway or Sweden on moose harvests. This included data on right around 10,000 moose. Recorded were caliber, shots fired, and distance that the animal traveled. There were literally thousands of entries for the popular calibers like 6.5x55 and .30-06. The 6.5x55 was the smallest caliber if memory serves and there were .300 magnums and .375s in the data.

There was virtually no difference in any of the cartridges in regards to shots needed and distance travelled. The column made me want to sell the other rifles and buy a 6.5x55 to use from now on. Fortunately that feeling passed.

mete
July 13, 2003, 02:35 PM
In sweden the minimum moose cartridge is the 6.5x55. When used they strongly suggest the 160 and a premium one at that . But with a sectional density of .330 it penetrates.

Futo Inu
July 13, 2003, 02:36 PM
"but the individual was thoughtful enough to put the disc on the new stock."

Just hope he didn't put a "good" disc on a not-so-good rifle's stock. So hold up a sec. That disc is the key - it will tell you the bore's condition upon refurb by the Swede gummint, post-issuance, and since it's in cosmo, it should not have changed. Do a search and you will find websites that explain all the markings on the disc, one of which is the bore's overall condition (rating), and another of which is the exactly bore groove diameter upon slugging at refurb, with the smaller the better for accuracy (but don't use hot reloads on the smallest bore sizes). On second thought, it may be the land diameter that's marked on the disc. Check it out. So I'd not pay more than 175 or so if the bore is marked good or excellent. Oh yeah, scandinavian "meese" are reindeer, as I understand it, and a tad smaller than NA meese, FWIW.

Mike Irwin
July 13, 2003, 04:36 PM
I'm aware of how popular the 6.5 is for the larger critters in Scandanavia.

I've got to wonder, however, how many are wounded and lost every year because of a shot taken under questionable circumstances resulted in a wound.

Perhaps not that many, but who knows.

I just know that were I hunting moose or elk I'd want something with just a bit more hole cutting ability, something along the lines of a .30-06 with Nosler Partitions.

Capt Teach
July 13, 2003, 05:44 PM
If memory serves (it doesn't always) the 6.5x55 bc is right up there with the .308. I have read that beyond 500 yds. the 6.5x55 actually begins to gain an edge with proper loads. Those long barrels 23.6" to 29" + really lets you get creative with the slower burning powders. People get a little carried away over the collector value of such weapons. I like to shoot mine and am currently looking for a smith to properly mount a variable powered scope on my m38. jmho

Capt Teach

mtnbkr
July 13, 2003, 10:45 PM
I like the 6.5x55. I just put 100rnds through mine (Winchester Featherweight) this weekend and easily shot "minute of bowling pin" offhand at 100yds. I think I've found a new "favorite rifle". It's easy to shoot and should be more than adequate for east coast deer.

Chris

Wildalaska
July 14, 2003, 03:17 AM
I picked up on my recent East Coast trip a Parker Hale 98 Mauser in 6.5x55. It has a crappy reblue, beat up sights and a hideous stock, but it has a featherweight countour bbl. Took it out last week (threw a 6.5x24 Swift scope on it which is possiblly the worst optical junk I have ever seen) and it shot 1/2 inch.

So now I have cut the barrel back to 21. Stock has been tossed, hi tech synthetic on the way. New Marbles folding rear, new Williams front. Three psoition saafety will be installed and probably ditch the Parker Hale trigger (anyone want to buy?) in favor of a Timney. Gonna teflon it, think it will weigh out just at 6 lbs. Will use this year for moose and caribou.

Wildloves6.5x55Alaska

Wildalaska
July 14, 2003, 03:19 AM
That disc is the key - it will tell you the bore's condition upon refurb by the Swede gummint,

Interestingly enough, I have a M38 and the bore disc is a unit disc (Coast artillery) instead of a bore disc.

WildnicecollectorsitemAlaska

Baba Louie
July 14, 2003, 08:10 AM
Check out Parallax Bill's Forums, specifically the Swedish Mauser board.

http://pub113.ezboard.com/bparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums

My 96 is an Obie made in 1900, all matching numbers ('cept the cleaning rod), shoots like a dream, albeit 14" high at 100 yds... seems to be sighted in for a 300 yd (or meter?) zero.

Buy it. I paid $69 for mine back in 87 (bought several as gifts). Look to see if its already been drilled and tapped for micro sights, if so, purchase and install. Some say the B-Square scope mount (Scout position) isn't the strongest thing out there and Darrel hasn't yet gotten around to producing mounts for the Mauser clan (if you visit Parallax's site you'll see what I mean).

The 6.5x55 is one sweet shooting round. The 96 is one sweet shooting rifle (as is the 38 and the Ljungman).

Ask MauserLady about hers sometime. She's got this Huuuge scope mounted on hers and I think she probably hits whatever she aims at... anyway she calls herself MauserLady for a reason :D .

But is it really "new"... maybe cherry or armory re-built? It's worth the money I'd claim.

Adios

scotjute
July 14, 2003, 10:00 AM
They were selling for around $215 and up about 6 months ago at a gun show down here. Pawn shop is selling them for about $229. They are becoming harder to find, so expect prices to go up.
They are very accurate and are devastating on whitetail.
I prefer the shorter-barrelled ones personally, (23.6" barrell and sights already set for 100 meters). These are even harder to find and will probably run $250 +.

Stinkyshoe
July 14, 2003, 02:42 PM
Thank you all for the information. As far as I can tell, it is new from the factory. The serial numbers match up, the barrel is packed with cosmoline, the stock doesn't have any scratches dings or anything. The only thing that looks "used" is the metal butstock plate. I would imagine this comes from years of transporting and moving the gun and setting it down on the butstock. As best as I can guess, the barrel is atleast 26 inches long. I stuck the tip of the gun to my arm pit(kinda where you would position a rifle with a lot of recoil so it does hurt much) and my middle finger touched the start of the chamber(I am 6'5") There is a small tag with a wire that appears to keep the bolt from being able to be opened. I am thinking this might be how they come from the factory, but I really don't know. The blueing looked in perfect condition(although I am not the best judge of this). I am hoping that this a something worth jumping into. How is the availability for the ammo. I do have a reloading press and have loaded about 500 rounds of 308, and still have all fingers :D .Is 6.5x55 difficult to reload for? I know a guy who used to be the editor for the Hornady reloading book(His wife was my high school english teacher) He reloads for over a 100 calibers, so I am sure he would have experience with 6.5x55.

What are somethings I can be aware of to detect if this is really new or not?Thank you again for all the info and suggestions

Capt Teach
July 14, 2003, 04:27 PM
Follow Baba Louie's advice. I have one of Darrel's mounts for my M-39 for a scout setup, but I want a "real" scope mounted on my Swede 38.
Reloading isn't particularly difficult, but finding quality brass is. For some reason the domestic variety doesn't seem to hold up well. I have heard good things about Norma brass, though it's a bit pricey. Not as pricey as my 6.5X53R however.

Capt Teach

Baba Louie
July 14, 2003, 05:05 PM
New?
Look at the receiver where it should state Manufacturer "Carl Gustav WaffenFabrik" or something or other with a date. As I said earlier, mine says Oberndorff Waffenfabrik 1900, thus it was made in Germany (as opposed to Sweden) in the year 1900, some 103 years ago... and it will outshoot ALL of my other toys and I only wish my eyes were those of a 20 year old soldier so I could shoot up to it!

http://www.surplusrifle.com/mauserswedish/index.asp

Another link to follow re: loads, takedown, etc.

Please do visit Parallax Bills Site and read back thru the posts on the Swede page(s). Those are some serious die-hard collectors and shooters, boyo.

Adios

Vic303
July 14, 2003, 06:09 PM
The swede is easy to reload for--just watch your max loads for pressure as you're loading for an OLD action...Reloader 19 is a good powder and reportedly is very similar to what the Swedes originally used.

--vic303
happy owner of 2 M96's

M67
July 16, 2003, 03:41 PM
This is a bit off topic, but:
Futo Inu: Scandinavian moose are a bit smaller than North American ones, although I've never seen the latter, nor hunted the former. One second... according to a nearby encyclopedia a large bull can reach 600 kg, a very large one 800.
Mike Irwin: I think very few critters are wounded because they were shot with a 6.5, a bad shot is a bad shot regardless of caliber. Also, in Norway you are required by law to track a wounded animal (big game) and finish the job, even if it moves onto someone else's property, cross county lines or whatever. If you don't manage to do it yourself, you're required to notify relevant authorities. I'm sure "questionable circumstances" occur, but it's not something you want to brag about to fellow hunters.
To hunt big game in Norway you need a rifle cartridge whith a minimum bullet weight of 9 grams (139 grains). If the bullet is between 9 and 10 grams (154 grains), the energy required is 2700 joule at 100 meters, if the bullet is heavier than 10 g the energy required is 2200 joule at 100 meters. I know, give a bureaucrat your little finger...

Baba Louie, I think "Carl Gustafs Stads Gevärsfaktori" or variation thereof is closer, "Waffenfabrik" is German, the Swedish word would be "vapenfabrik" or in this case a more old fashioned "gevärsfaktori".

Stinkyshoe, sorry about the digression. The 6.5 is a great caliber. It's not difficult to reload, which reminds me that I have several hundred cases awaiting my attention. :)

Stinkyshoe
July 16, 2003, 09:42 PM
"Baba Louie, I think "Carl Gustafs Stads Gevärsfaktori" or variation thereof is closer, "Waffenfabrik" is German, the Swedish word would be "vapenfabrik" or in this case a more old fashioned "gevärsfaktori"

The rifle I looked at said Carl Gustafs Stads and then said Gevarsfactori on it. Does this mean that it was made in Sweden? Is there a German made model? Is there a sight worth putting on it that would make for more precise target aquisition?

Thank you again for all the replies
Ss

P.s. Ballistically, what common cartridge would this be similar to. A .270 Winchester perhaps?

JohnKSa
July 16, 2003, 10:36 PM
The 6.5x55 is one of those rounds that performs much better than its paper ballistics say it should.

The 260 Remington, which is a clone of the 6.5x55 ballistically, is the same way.

On the hog hunting forums, the guys will tell you that you need a cannon to reliably stop a hog--or a something with a 6.5mm bullet. You see guys talking about their 300Win Mags, their .338s, their 45-70s, and then there's the guys talking about their .260s and 6.5x55s.

A friend of mine owns a gun shop, does a lot of hunting and shooting. He bought his youngest a 260 because of the light recoil. He's a bigger is better guy, but after watching the kid take a few deer, he just doesn't know how to explain it. He says: "I've never seen a deer take a single step after being hit with that 260." And although his kid isn't a bad shot, he's nothing like a hunting expert--you can't give him all the credit.

I finally talked another friend of mine into a .260 This guy buys a gun a month--literally. He buys, trades and sells guns faster than anyone I know. He hardly ever has more than 3-4 guns on hand, but he's always ready to buy or sell at a moment's notice. He hunts when he gets the chance. He was impressed at the accuracy of the .260, but didn't think it would work well on deer. After taking a couple deer with it, he changed his tune. Same song as the other guy--it kills them dead in their tracks.

M67
July 17, 2003, 11:15 AM
I don't know much about Swedish Mausers, but I have a head start on you guys - I read Swedish, so here's the result of a quick search. :)

Carl Gustafs stad, "Carl Gustaf's city/town", was a freetown for blacksmiths (tax free area) outside Eskilstuna, Sweden in the 18th century. Carl and Gustaf/Gustav have been very pupular names in the Swedish royal family, with a number of Carl Gustafs thrown in for variation... Anyway, the rifle factory was set up in 1812 or 1813, it's still in business, I think it's owned by Bofors now.

Swedish Mausers were produced mainly at Carl Gustaf but a number were also produced by Mauser in Oberndorf, Germany to supplement Swedish production, both M94 carbines and M96 rifles. There is no "German model", they are all the same model(s), just that the Swedish gov't had some of them made in Germany because of production capacity. The rifles were designed by Mauser, the Swedes paid a royalty for the ones they produced in Sweden. M38 rifles were made by the Swedish company Husqvarna from 1941 to 45. I think Husqvarna was later bought by the same division of Bofors that owns Carl Gustaf. I think the standard marking on weapons made by Carl Gustaf is a C with a crown, those made by Husqvarna should have a crowned H. I don't know if civilian rifles made by the same factories are marked in this way. I have seen and fired a number of rifles made by both, I just can't remember looking very closely at the markings (he says and hangs his head in shame... :) )

The 6.5x55 cartridge was designed by a Norwegian-Swedish committee. The two countries were in a union at the time. The military forces were separate but were supposed to have a common strategy for defending the two countries, hence a certain degree of logistical cooperation. The Norwegian parliament fired the union king in 1905 and dissolved the union, but no shots were fired.

The 6.5x55 was chambered in the Swedish Mauser models mentioned above, and in the Norwegian Krag Jørgensen model of 1894. That rifle, for those who are interested, was designed by two Norwegians (army officer Ole Krag and gunsmith Erik Jørgensen). The Krag was adopted by Denmark (8x58R) in 1889, by the US (30-40) in 1892 and in Norway (6.5x55) in 1894. (In Norway the Krag replaced a bolt action magazine-fed rifle, the Jarmann rifle was adopted by the army in 1884.) The 6.5 has later been loaded quite a bit hotter for Mausers and modern rifles than the original loading. The Krag is not strong enough to handle the higher pressures, so in Norway we have "Mauser-loads" and "Krag-loads" in 6.5x55. The dimensions are identical, the only difference is chamber pressure.

Stinkyshoe
July 17, 2003, 01:44 PM
JohnK
Thank you for the comparison. That really helps a lot. It is good to know it will take deer sized game with good shot placement. That is really what I want it for. I would like to try the Military rifle competition in the state games next year. We'll see...


M67
Thanks for the historical background on the gun manufacturers during that time. Would all three Krags(Denmark, US, Norway) all having the same side loading box magazine? Because the M96 is a Mauser, does that mean it can handle higher pressure "mauser" loads?


Thanks again

M67
July 17, 2003, 02:40 PM
Stinkyshoe, thank my employer, they're the ones paying me 35 bucks an hour to sit here and talk guns on line. :D

The low pressure Krag loads I mentioned is a Norwegian thing, the M96 should handle "regular" factory loads or equivalent handloads. Disclaimer: Any 100 year old rifle is ... well, a 100 years old. No point pushing one's luck by loading hot. 6.5x55 ammo fired in Mausers in Norway is generally fired in 98 Mausers, which I believe is a bit stronger than the 96. Or is it? Someone here probably knows.

All the Krags had basically the same magazine, but on the Danish rifles the magazine was hinged in front instead of at the bottom. I have never tried to shoot a Danish Krag, but it looks just plain wrong to me. This is one of the changes that were made as a result of the US rifle trials, the Norwegian model is more or less identical to the one adopted by the US, although we used it longer, so there were a number of minor changes through the years, including a "Boy's Carbine" for use in teaching school children to shoot. That one came along in 1912, I think. I believe close to 200,000 Krags were made for the Norwegian army, a few thousand for the navy and tens of thousands for the civilian market, in a population of less than 2.5 million at the time. A couple of hundred rifles supposedly ended up in Boer hands during the second Boer war, through a private purchase, but the facts about this are somewhat hazy.

scotjute
July 17, 2003, 04:01 PM
The '98 Mauser is a stronger action than the '96 Mauser and can handle a wider variety of cartridges.

JohnKSa
July 17, 2003, 09:51 PM
Must read for someone interested in Swedish Mausers.

Neutrality Though Marksmanship
"A Collector's and Shooter's Guide to Swedish Military Rifles 1867-1942"
Doug Bowser
Published by Camellia City Military Publications in1996

I found my copy from a bookseller in the Shotgun News. Can't remember the name. If you can't find it, PM me and I'll give you his email. Nice guy. He autographed the M1 book I bought from him.

Anyway, the Swede book is a good read, and a good reference too.

Any U.S. Commercial ammo should be good for the old Swedes, with the possible exception of the Hornady Light Magnum stuff.

If you handload, they tend to work best with the 140 grain bullets. Don't hotrod them. It's not necessary to get good performance or accuracy, and they ARE, after all 100 years old...

coyote shooter
April 3, 2009, 01:25 PM
i got this rifle from an good friend and been trying to find some information on it .i have gotten evrything on it and i am still trying to find out why it has a threaded barrel and how ot interpit the shooting ranges that is stamped on a metal tag on the stock next to the circular disk. its in exellant condition and a cpl of guys has offered me $800 for it. is it really worth that much???

Vic303
April 3, 2009, 02:06 PM
Coyote, the threads are so you can place a flash hider on the barrel. You can buy one for about $27 from Samco Global.

I'm not willing to pay $800 for a Swede, but I'd need to know more about your particular rifle to get a sense of its value.

rust collector
April 3, 2009, 07:41 PM
I understood that the threaded muzzles were for mounting a device which shredded the wooden bullet used in blank cartridges used for training.

The metal rectangular tag is probably a bullet drop chart.

A rifle is worth what someone is willing to pay. Sometimes rarity makes them more valuable. Make sure you know what you have, and sell if the rifle is worth less than 800 to you.

They are great fun to shoot.

Tamlin
April 3, 2009, 08:29 PM
I found a sporterized M94 Carbine recently for $229. All the numbers match - just has a modern stock on it (and a Williams peep sight). Love it. The one you are looking at sounds like a great deal. Do you think the price is going to go DOWN???

Plank Road Farm
April 3, 2009, 09:00 PM
Glad you guys resurrected this thread after nearly "six" years.

I have a Swede with the markings:

Crown stamp
Captial C
Carl Gustafs stad
Gevarsfaktori.
1903

If "M67" is still around six years later, can you share a little about my rifle?

Float Pilot
April 4, 2009, 12:15 AM
Coyote, the threads are so you can place a flash hider on the barrel. You can buy one for about $27 from Samco Global.

No they were not.

Some of the Model 96 and Model 38 rifles were later rebarreled with a threaded barrel for the use of a blank firing adapter. Making them M/96B and M/38B

The Swedes used wooden bullets in their blanks which were rather dangerous up close. For many years they used the blanks without any sort of adapter and simply told the troops to aim off to one side when the target was close enough to hurt.

Since any GI can screw up just about anything, they decided to make a wooden bullet shreader for the end of the muzzle. I own a couple.

The Swedes then used a semi clear plastic thread protector to keep the threads from getting all messed up in the field.

The Swedes NEVER issued a flash hider for their M96(b) and M/38(B) rifles. They also did not issue the blued steel thread protectors. Both are the invention of US importers and after market dealers.
Many rifles that were arsenal rebuilt in the 60s and 70s have the threaded barrels since they appear to have had lots of those on hand.

Sniper rifles never had the threaded barrels.

The best book on Swedish Mausers is (Crown Jewels - The Mauser in Sweden: A Century of Accuracy & Precision) by Dana Jones.

The other books are full of errors.

This is a good web site.

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/

Here is a page showing the blank adapter. The pics of mine are on another old thread here and I can't reload them.



how ot interpit the shooting ranges that is stamped on a metal tag on the stock next to the circular disk.


The round brass disc is an inspection notation disc. It gives the bore condition at the last inspection (the section with 1,2 and 3) No mark meaning new or like new. A mark opver the 1 means slight wear, 2 is still ok and 3 means it is about ready to be replaced. Another section has the bore diameter and so on.

The rectangular plate is the range conversion chart for one of two types of commonly issued ammunition. The old 156 grain m/94 round nose bullet and the later m/41 spitzer bullet of 139 grains.

If your plate says:

G m/38 .............................on top it means Rifle m-38
Sitke for trubbkula...........if the rifle has the old sights for the round nose.
Skjutning med spetskula......shooting with the newer Spitzer bullet.

If the m/38 rifle has sights for the Spitzer ammo there should be a big T on the back sight. Then the plate will say Sitke for Spetskula (sights for spitzer) and the next line will say Skjutning med Trubbkula...shooting round nose.

Then it has two rows of numbers. The left row is the actual target range and the right row is the sight setting.

For instance with a m/38 rifle sighted for the spitzer m/41 cartrdige, if you were issued old round nose ammo, and the target is at 250 meters, you need to use the 300 meter sight setting.

The Swedish volunteer battalions who walked across the border into Finland to fight the soviets seem to have used older round nose ammo throughout the Winter War and the later continuation war.

Float Pilot
April 4, 2009, 12:41 AM
Glad you guys resurrected this thread after nearly "six" years.

I have a Swede with the markings:

Crown stamp
Captial C
Carl Gustafs stad
Gevarsfaktori.
1903

Is yours a m/96 rifle 29 inch barrel, an m/38 made from a m/96 rilfe (24 inch barrel) or a 16 inch M/94 carbine ?

Plank Road Farm
April 4, 2009, 10:07 AM
Is yours a m/96 rifle 29 inch barrel, an m/38 made from a m/96 rilfe (24 inch barrel) or a 16 inch M/94 carbine ?

Mine is a M/96 rifle with a 29 inch barrel.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q195/Plankroadfarm/M96Mauser1903SmallRing.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q195/Plankroadfarm/M96BoltHandle640x480.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q195/Plankroadfarm/RearStightRear640x480.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q195/Plankroadfarm/StockDecal640x480.jpg

Float Pilot
April 4, 2009, 05:01 PM
We are having more volcanic ash fall here, so I will see how long my computer connection holds up.

Your 1903 Carl Gustafs manufactured rifle (CG the Crown (royal) rifle factory) was one of about 14,700 made during 1903 at the Government Rilfe factory. The Crown over the CG was the factory crest.

You should have either a K.B. or maybe a H.R. in front of the serial number on the receiver. That is the Inspectors initials.
K.B. is Capt Konrad August Berglund of the 5th Artillery and H.R. is Lt. Erik Herman Ribbing of the 3rd Art.

Also look to see if there is a mark that looks like [SA] anywhere. If so, that means the rifle was lent to the Finns during the WWII period.


Your bolt was originally a straight bolt back in 1903. Sometime during the rifles life the bolt sleeve (body) has been replaced with a Husqvarna made turn-down bolt sleeve.
Many base rifle clubs, shooting teams and the Civilian Shooting program rifles had repacement Husqvarna turned down bolts.

If you look on the bottom side of your bolt knob, you will notice that the crown acceptence mark is tilted. The Tilted Crown was the mark of Husqvarna made parts. The CG crown is just like you see on your other bolt parts.
Your bolt serial number should be upside down if you are looking at it with the bolt closed from the right side of the rifle. It was made to be looked at from the other side by opening the bolt. Some replacement Swede rifle bolts in the US have the numbers upright since they were done by bubbas who did not know how they are supposed to be stamped.

During 1899 and 1900 some m/96 Rilfes were made at the Mauser factory in Germany (on the Necker River) using Swedish steel. The crown on those rifles looks a little different from the CG crown. The bottom looks baggy. Sometimes you will see German Mauser partys on rifles that have been rebuilt.

Your rear sight has a METALLVERKEN REFINED SIGHT ADAPTER type 3.
There were 3 different versions of this sight adapter. These were designed by P.O. Faldt,and were manufactured by Metallverken, in Vasteras, Sweden. Many sellers mistakenly refer to these as "naval" sights, because the Metallverken logo is a Viking ship, they assume they have something to do with the Navy.
The earliest was designed for M94 ammo in a M38 barrel length, it is calibrated from 300-600 meters.
The Type 2 was designed for the M41 ammo in an M38 barrel, it is graduated from 250-600 meters. These are in 25 meter increments, with a dot signifying 25 meters, and a line signifying 50 meters. On the Type II, 3 is the lowest number,
The Type 3 Metallverken adapter was strictly civilian. It is graduated from 100-600 meters, and was regulated for Metallverken target ammo (very similar to military M41 ammo) in an M96 length barrel. These were used extensively on civilian M96's.
I think yours is the type 3. That would also go along with the turned down bolt.

You probably have some cartouche marks on the underside of your stock between the trigger guard area and the rear sling swivel mount.
Those could tell us how many times the rifle was rebuilt and by whom.
A crown over a C means Carl Gustafs Inspection, a Crown CH means the rifle was reworked at the Kristianstad armory.
A Crowned S means a rework at the Stockholm Armory.
A couple of mine are stamped Crown over CB. This means they were rewokred at the Karlsborg Armory. Since it used to be spelled CARLSBORG.
There are also a few other stamps.

There will also be some stamps on the barrel chamber area. this is inside the stock and requires the barrel action to be removed to view.

You bore condition disc shows a new barrel, with a 6.51 mm bore. It also shows no hold over or hold under for the change to the newer ammo.

The new barrel, the target sight insert and the good condition make me think it was a shooting club or rifle team weapon. It probably shoots like a house-a-fire....

Your rifle has a 1 in 200mm twist. About 1 in 8 inch. Since it was originally made to shoot the 156 gr round nose bullets. Of course the 139 to 140 grain bullets work just fine as well.

My m/96s seem to like handloads using the 160 grain Hornady round nose bullet and RL-22 powder.

My wife is wigging out and trying to clean the house during a volcanic ash storm...., so I gotta go...

xx

doubs43
April 4, 2009, 05:24 PM
At the beginning of this thread the comment is made that Swedish Mausers were not issued to the Finns. As a standard issue weapon that would be true but Sweden apparently did send some M96 rifles to the Finns, possibly during the Winter War or the WW2 years. I can't vouch for them having been issued to Finn troops but the Finns did have some.

Vern Humphrey
April 4, 2009, 07:33 PM
The swede is easy to reload for--just watch your max loads for pressure as you're loading for an OLD action...
One thing more -- the 6.5 was designed to shoot a long, heavy (160 grain) bullet, so Swedes have loooong throats. Accuracy will be much improved if handloaders understand that and load the bullets way out.

By the way, many 140-grain 6.5 bullets have two crimping cannelures. If you're shooting a Swede, start by loading with the back cannelure at the case mouth -- that puts the bullet about where it belongs for best accuracy.

jkingrph
April 4, 2009, 07:45 PM
One of my favorite rifles, Guess that's why I have so many. My best find is a 1900 Obendorf with a two digit serial number, all matching, converted to M 38 short rifle form. I also have a Husqvarna sporter, built on the 96 action, identical to the military action in 9.3x57 Mauser. This one dates to about 1934 and has a really attractive stock.

Float Pilot
April 5, 2009, 12:40 AM
At the beginning of this thread the comment is made that Swedish Mausers were not issued to the Finns.

During the Finnish Civil War 1917 to 1918, the Swedes managed to somehow inmport about 1,300 rifles into Finland from Sweden. They also provided (volunteer Troops). How those rifles were used is not well documented.

In 1919, the Finnish Civil Guard was issued Swedish Mausers in the mostly Swedish Speaking areas of Southern and Western Finland. Some were privately purchased by Civil Guard members since they were well liked for their superior accuracy. By 1924 the Finnish Civil Guard showed 1,913 Swede rifles in use.

The Finnish Winter war of 1939-1940 resulted in the purchase of 77,000 Swedish rifles by the government of Finland. These were sold with bayonets, ammo, slings and all sorts of other goodies. The first lot of rifles and ammo was shipped across the boarder in January 1940.
Rifles from the first delivery were issued to Troops in the Northern front, units of the coastal artillery and home guard units. Once again most were in the Swedish speaking areas. They were not considered as first line issue.

As a side note: 80,000 Finnish children were taken into Swedish homes to protect them from the invading Soviets....

During the winter war more than 8,000 Swedish troops were allowed to take leave from the Swedish Army and join the Svenska Frivillig Karen The SWEDISH VOLUTEER CORPS.
They were armed with standard Swedish Rifles and Carbines which were supposedly all paid for via donations... Wink-Wink...

In late 1940 the volunteer Corps gave some 7,897 of the rifles and carbines to the Finns. So the Finns now had around 1,000 M/94 and m/94-14 carbines..

In 1941 the Soviets and Finns were back it fighting again. This is referred to as the Continuation War During this period most of the Swedish made rifles and carbines were isued to the Finnish Navy, Anti-Aircraft units and supply depot guard units. Swedish made rifles accounted for just over 8% of the entire Finnish military inventory.

Around 52,063 Swedish rifles were still on the the Finnish Army's inventory list at the end of the Continuation War in late 1944.

There were also Swedish volunteer battalions fighting the Soviets inside Finnland during the Continuation War. Just as there were German Troops in Finland as well. In fact there was the LAPLAND WAR of late 1944 early 1945 in which the Finns turned on the German troops.

Plank Road Farm
April 6, 2009, 11:39 AM
Float Pilot.....you are the man for Swede information!
Thanks for shedding some light on my rifle.
Hope you have the ash under control by now.

Also look to see if there is a mark that looks like [SA] anywhere. If so, that means the rifle was lent to the Finns during the WWII period.

I cannot find a mark that looks like [SA] anywhere. But I haven't taken the barrel out of the stock to look at the under side.

You should have either a K.B. or maybe a H.R. in front of the serial number on the receiver. That is the Inspectors initials.
K.B. is Capt Konrad August Berglund of the 5th Artillery and H.R. is Lt. Erik Herman Ribbing of the 3rd Art.

There is a "K.B." initial in front of the serial number which ends with "xxx606".

If you look on the bottom side of your bolt knob, you will notice that the crown acceptence mark is tilted. The Tilted Crown was the mark of Husqvarna made parts. The CG crown is just like you see on your other bolt parts.
Your bolt serial number should be upside down if you are looking at it with the bolt closed from the right side of the rifle. It was made to be looked at from the other side by opening the bolt. Some replacement Swede rifle bolts in the US have the numbers upright since they were done by bubbas who did not know how they are supposed to be stamped.

Here's two views of my bolt. The bolt "606" looks upside down. Not sure if the bottom side has a tiltled crown or not.
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q195/Plankroadfarm/Bolt2views_1.jpg

You probably have some cartouche marks on the underside of your stock between the trigger guard area and the rear sling swivel mount.
Those could tell us how many times the rifle was rebuilt and by whom.
A crown over a C means Carl Gustafs Inspection, a Crown CH means the rifle was reworked at the Kristianstad armory.
A Crowned S means a rework at the Stockholm Armory.
A couple of mine are stamped Crown over CB. This means they were rewokred at the Karlsborg Armory. Since it used to be spelled CARLSBORG.
There are also a few other stamps.

Here's two views of the cartouche marks. It is not stamped very well, can you tell what it is? It looks like a small letter "g", not sure.
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q195/Plankroadfarm/Cartouche2viewsvert_2.jpg

The new barrel, the target sight insert and the good condition make me think it was a shooting club or rifle team weapon. It probably shoots like a house-a-fire....
I haven't shot it yet.
TIA

Float Pilot
April 6, 2009, 05:38 PM
The [SA] would be where you could see it. So it was not sent to the Finns.

The Cg under a Crown means it was rebuilt or upgraded by the Swedish Army Arms Depot at Goteborg. You do not see many of those.

Your bolt is a Husqvarna arsenal replacement. The stock seems to be in great shape as well from the few photos I have seen. I have one almost like it that was probably used as a Shooting team rifle at a military base.

Even the rifles issued to the civilain shooters groups, were still military and had to eventually be returned. It was a sort of super CMP program.

Mine likes 45-46 grains of RL-22 powder, a CCI-200 primers, Winchester brass, and a 160 grain Hornady round nose loaded to the cannelure. (around 3,00 inch col)

Here are groups from three different types of Swede Rifles:

Plank Road Farm
April 6, 2009, 07:34 PM
Float Pilot:
Sorry that I mistyped your name in my last post.
I went back and corrected my mistake.
Just wanted to thank you for filling in the blanks about my M96 Swede.

Mine did not have a cleaning rod when I bought it.
I guess I would need one to clean it once I shoot it.
Are the hard to find?
TIA

Float Pilot
April 6, 2009, 09:02 PM
Rifle Rods are not hard to find, but they are actually too short to use for cleaning.


http://cgi.ebay.com/SWEDISH-MAUSER-M96-CLEANING-ROD-&-EXTENSION_W0QQitemZ180343674545QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090405?IMSfp=TL090405153001r13869


The Swedes had an adapter that made them long enough. Their cleaning gear was overly complicated.

This photo will help you remember the pen name...

Float Pilot

M67
April 7, 2009, 05:56 AM
If "M67" is still around six years later, can you share a little about my rifle? He is. :)
He doesn't have anything to add though, Float Pilot seems to have it covered. Except that the Swedes did sell rifles to civilian shooters, but that may have been only the rebuilt target rifles (CG63 and CG80), don't know about the "original" military rifles until they were surplused out in recent years.

The cleaning rod is of the "three-piece" variety, isn't it? Like the German Mausers. You're supposed to team up with two of your squad mates and make one cleaning rod out of three short ones.

Float Pilot
April 7, 2009, 03:44 PM
M67 is correct, there were civilian sales as well. I just mentioned the semi-government sponsored shooting groups since they could have their rifles worked on my the Army repair depots. Or could rotate weapons through that system. There is even a list of civilian gunsmiths who were approved to work on Military rifles. Remember that at one time everyone was expected to have a rifle at home for the denfense of the country.

My friends who live in Sweden say that the political situation has really changed. We see many rifles coming into the USA that have custom name plates on the side as they were awarded for winning various target matches. I cannot see any family willing giving up such a piece of family history. So things cannot be all that great over there for the average gun owner.


The m/96 (1896) and m/38 cleaning rods are longer than the M/98 style cleaning rods. The German m/98 system requires three guys to get together and combine their rod sections. The Swedish system was similar to the old M-1891, M-1993 and M-1895 mauser systems with the longer rods.
But they were still about 75mm (3 inches) short, so you need to have the adapter piece.

The m/94 (1894) Carbine did not have a rod. the cleaning kit for the Carbine had a pull through piece of cord.

I just tried to take a photo of the Swede cleaning kit and my camera died...it has been dropped into the water one too many times.

Anyway the field kit has two chambers made of metal. They look like they could be made to go into a butt compartment in a rifle stock,,,,BUT,,,, the Swedes did not use butt trap compartments for their M/96 and M/38 rifles... I always wondered why not...

skidooman603
June 25, 2009, 01:08 PM
Wow! Interesting Mauser thread

Rubio
October 5, 2009, 01:28 PM
Hi Everyone!

This is truly an extensiv thread. I've read a lot, but not all of it.
The year of my Carl Gustafs is not particulary mentioned. I got it only last Saturday and I didn't pay much for it. No idea what it would be worth.

On top of the chamber is stamped:
CARL GUSTAFS STADS
GEVARSFAKTORI.
1919
above it has the crown and... something like a moon cresent with a... fancy letter..., may be a "T" or the number "1", inside the cresent.
On the left, just behind the chamber is the serial number, 462781 , it has H.K. stamped in front of it.
The bolt, the bottom plate and everything else has the matching numbers (781).
The shoulder strap just about seems original. It is pretty worn and has a crack too.
The brass medal/coin on the right of the stock says on the outer circle:
"Overslag" and than there is a "punch mark". On the other half of the outer circle it says:
"2345", than a little separate is the number "2" stamped in.
On the inner circle it says "Torpedgm". On the other half of the inner circle it says:
"901" with a "Punch mark" above the 0 (zero). And again separate the number "1", but also with a "punch mark" above this number 1.
The rifleing in the bore is in good to very good shape.

Unfortunately someone has shortened the stock, I was told.
It looks good and the job was done very neat.
And the last downturn, the butt at the bottom of the stock is missing.

I would appreciate, if someone could give me a rough idea of the value of this Swedish Mauser here in North America/Canada.

Also, it would be great, if someone could point me in the right direction, where I may be able to find the butt for the stock.

Thanks in advance for all your advise and support!

Float Pilot
October 5, 2009, 03:30 PM
Need pics to assess the damage

jbech123
October 5, 2009, 08:33 PM
The 6.5x55 is a fine cartridge, exceptionally accurate,still used for serious target shooting. An off the shelf rifle should give you 1" groups, a good one 1/2".
It is a fine cartridge indeed and has some high bc bullets available. Hoever I certainly wouldn't expect 1/2" accuracy out of a surplus swedish mauser from the early 1900's. Certainly anything is possible as an exception, but that is not the rule for even a good one. Heck even with all the internet chatter to the contrary, very few stock rifles of today will consistently shoot 1/2moa out of the box.

Float Pilot
October 5, 2009, 08:43 PM
The up side of the Swede Mauser's is that they were used (issued) until the 1970s. They had their barrels replaced when they became worn and many were stored with new barrels. Plus you have the rifles that were issued to shooters in the FSR. Many of those were target grade rifles.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=472517

It does help if you know what you are looking for when shopping for a shooter Swede.

JohnKSa
October 5, 2009, 09:32 PM
Hoever I certainly wouldn't expect 1/2" accuracy out of a surplus swedish mauser from the early 1900's. Certainly anything is possible as an exception, but that is not the rule for even a good one.All I can say is I've never shot one that wouldn't shoot better than 1MOA, and that's using iron sights.

Buying a surplus rifle and expecting 1/2MOA accuracy out of it is probably going to result in disappointment but on the other hand, with good ammunition it's been my experience that a decent example of a Swedish Mauser is capable of better than 1MOA. That seems to be true regardless of the date of manufacture.

A local club used to have military rifle matches that were shot from a rest. When the Swedes started hitting the market some years back they had to change the match rules. Several people bought Swedish Mausers and their accuracy was so uniformly good that no one else could win. The non-Swede shooters complained and they changed the rules to eliminate the benched shooting so that the field would be evened up a bit.

Float Pilot
October 5, 2009, 09:42 PM
A couple of our range guys either try to change the rules or make sure the match is held when I can't come.. All because I started using Swede Mausers.
And here one of them was using whimpy velocity cast lead hand-loads in his Swiss K-31, while I was using full house loads. My little m/94 carbine is fairly accurate so I may try using it next with the long bayonet attached. That should rub some salt in the wound.

Float Pilot
October 6, 2009, 12:39 PM
RUBIO:

Your m/96 rifle was built at the Carl Gustaf State Rifle Factory Eskilstuna Sweden in 1919. It was inspected by H.K. who was Helge Gustaf Ludvig Kolhoff. Born 08/07/1878.
He inspected rifles for acceptance from April 1, 1912 until Feb 28, 1923. He was a Lt. in the 6th Artillery.

They made around 18,000 m/96 rifles in 1919. Yours was made during the very first part of 1919.
If your is still in m/96 form it will have a 29 inch barrel. I say IF because many m/96 rifles were cut down into m/38 rifles with 23.5 inch barrels just before WWII.

Here is a good place that explains the bore condition disc.

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/disc.html

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/swede/index.asp

scotjute
October 6, 2009, 03:39 PM
I have one in which I had the barrell free-floated. The gun shot 3/4 MOA at 110 yds. It had a #2 barrell.
Doesn't seem far-fetched to me that some of the Swedes are capable of 1/2 MOA.

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