Do I want a Smith and Wesson Sigma?


October 10, 2007, 05:23 PM
I was looking at the local gun shop Monday. My 1911 jar is full enough to get a pistol.:D:D

I call it the 1911 jar because I originally intended to use it to save for a 1911, but I had a change in heart and the 1911 is on the waiting list while I first get something practical for H.D. I am relying on a 1943 Star Model B 9mm. Those who are familiar with my posts know that it only shoot WWB HP and FMJ and lead well. Other HP ammo is unreliable.

So I tried out a few pistols in my range ($400) and the S&W Sigma felt to me. Do I want to buy this? Meaning do you love or hate yours and why. Make suggestions about other guns if you want in my price range. Don't worry about the CA "safe gun list" I'll make a list and bring it to my gun shop and see what he has and can get. But please no used gun suggestions, I'll look at what the local gun shop has in used guns this weekend, but price and condition vary so I just don't want this thread to drift there.

My requirements:
9mm or .40 S&W
$400+/- $50
10+ rd capacity (if I move out of state I would like to have a 15+ rd option)


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October 10, 2007, 05:24 PM
Sigmas around here are $300 around here. And no, I wouldn't want one.

October 10, 2007, 05:28 PM
Sigma's are probably the worse guns S&W has ever made. I would seriously be looking at the new M&P line, everyone I have talked to has loved them and they have been very reliable and they should be in your price range if not a little under. You could also get a new Glock for about $50 more bucks.

October 10, 2007, 05:32 PM
You start your fund wanting a 1911 and settle on a Sigma? :confused: Keep saving your pennies & get that 1911 :cool: ;)

Mikhail Konovalov
October 10, 2007, 05:34 PM
Don't do it, man!

That thing's a nightmare pistol. Got a trigger heavier than my AK's bolt and twice as rough, jams more often than a Raven .25, it's even lousy as a paperweight. The only thing a Sigma's good for is whacking people, and even then there are better guns for the job. Grab an M&P if you love Smiths. Try an XD, though, you may be surprised. I know I was.

October 10, 2007, 05:37 PM
Why do you want the Sigma?

If you want a good, inexpensive 9MM, look at police trade in Berettas or S&W 5906s. Just my .02, of course.

October 10, 2007, 05:41 PM
The Sigmas do have good ergonomics.

Generally I've read the new Sigmas are actually "okay", as in they work well, but all owners tell me their trigger is just gods awful. I concur with the other posters, if you've been this patient, just keep saving away for an M&P or the 1911 you originally wanted. I feel you will be happier in the end.

October 10, 2007, 05:44 PM
Sigmas around here are $300
They were $350 and less. depending on which I got. I will look at the M&P line. The place by work where I was looking didn't have any. What's sad is that the Sigma felt much better (in my hand and trigger) than the Ruger did.

October 10, 2007, 05:46 PM
HAng on....getting clearer...yes....yesss....yessssss

You don't....I can tell...but you can get one anyway

If you liked the SIgma you will LOVE the M&P

October 10, 2007, 05:49 PM

I have seen SO, SO, SO many newbies to handguns get sucked into the price of the sima. When they get it home and shoot it the first time - their next post is: "How do I lighten the trigger pull."

The gun works, but the trigger is horrendous. U will NOT have fun shooting the center of the bullseye at the range because the heavy trigger will make U move the gun a bit as you try to pull the trigger.

Go buy an FNP ($400) which has the best D/A pull I've felt on a DA/SA gun with an external hammer. Go Buy a Stoeger Cougar - which is a clone of the Beretta Cougar ($300 range). Hell, even go buy a Ruger Semi-auto. Do yourself a favor and skip the sigma.

Or, save $100 more and get a Springfield Mil Spec if U reallyw ant that 1911.

October 10, 2007, 05:53 PM
Oh, the 1911 would be more of a range gun for me. It's on the list but further down. I don't want to settle for a bottom end 1911 to replace my star as the HD weapon. I will get something else for HD (probably not a Sigma now) and will save up for the 1911 of my choice. I can wait longer to get something, I was just amazed that by throwing pocket change in the jar (and some bills) since April I've saved $450 without trying. I can pitch in some more money but not a whole bunch.

So far I'm seeing;

How about the CZ75?
I'm open to most suggestions.

October 10, 2007, 06:25 PM
I'll second the M&P. Mine has 1500+ rounds with no issues at all. It's a great gun, So is the Stoeger Cougar. It's not EXACTLY a Beretta clone. Basically, it's a Beretta. Stoeger is a subsidiary, and they just moved all the tooling and machinery to Turkey. $349 for a great gun. It eats everything, and mine has 1000+ rnds through it. like the M&P, no issues. Holsters and mags for the Beretta version work fine (same gun). I have both of these. They split time for my EDC.

October 10, 2007, 06:43 PM
and now for something completely different...

yes, the sigma has a long, heavy trigger pull. yes, it was a glock rip off. yes, it's less than $400. yes, it's ugly.

these facts, however, do not make a bad gun.

i own and shoot the 9ve, with over 1,000 rounds through mine so far. i have not had a single problem, not one jam, FTF, FTE, nothing. i also own, or have owned, and shot: a glock 19, a colt defender, a hi point .45, an astra 44 magnum, a .38 colt, and just recently got the M&P compact 9mm. i say this just for a point of reference. i've only ever had problems with the defender.

the trigger pull will smooth out over time, if you shoot it regularly. if you have experience shooting revolvers, the trigger really shouldn't be an issue, anyway. the trigger, IMO, also discourages ND.

it originally was just a glock rip off, this is true. but you know what? i shoot better with the sigma than with, say, a G19. the ergo on glocks IMO are terrible, not to mention outdated. the sigma fits my hand quite well, and aims naturally for me. i eventually sold my glock to buy the M&P.

it's not a pretty gun to look at, like a sig or kimber is. but you're not buying a gun for looks, you're buying it to shoot. the sigma does what it's supposed to do: go BANG on demand.

one of the biggest problems with the sigma is not its performance, its ergonomics, or appearance. it's its REPUTATION. unfortunately, many people base their opinions and criticisms of the sigma on their first incarnation, which were total crap. the sigma line was overhauled, and a lot of the initial problems were fixed, except the dreaded trigger. many times, people who bag on the gun have never even fired one; they're just repeating what they've read, or have been told. this is especially true of "glockers" and 1911 lovers. many of these people will tell you that low priced guns, such as kel tec, NAA, cobra arms, and hi point are worthless, that it's better not to have a gun at all than to shoot one them. but not everyone can afford a kimber, or a detonics, or a springfield xd. avoid firearm elitism.

the bottom line is: how does it feel in your hand? can you aim naturally? do the bullets go where you want them? is it reliable? this is what's important, not the opinions of others. if you're looking for inexpensive guns, any one of the brands i mentioned are worth looking into. if you need a gun purely for self defense, then you can easily buy one without having to break the bank.

good luck with whatever you choose.

October 10, 2007, 07:43 PM
I was wondering about the opinions being based on the first generation vs. 2nd. The trigger was better on the Sigma than on the Ruger P95. I will have to go to the indoor range and rent one (hope they have one) to see if it shoots well for me. I ruled out the Taurus 92 by trying one out and also opted against the Walthers PPK/S and P99 by trying them out. I did like the Sig P226 and the CZ75, and the high I guess I picked a black sheep to get input on. I will go try one first in case I really don't like it. But really the trigger on the display model was smooth and no to heavy. It was longer than I'm used to but a Kahr MP9 that I tried a while back had a longer trigger pull that this and is was not smooth pull effort varied a lot.

lee n. field
October 10, 2007, 10:00 PM
9mm or .40 S&W
$400+/- $50
10+ rd capacity (if I move out of state I would like to have a 15+ rd option)

Glock or XD.

October 10, 2007, 10:04 PM
I have 3 sigmas, a 9ve, a 40ve and an older 9mm compact version. Fired several thousand rounds between the three and never had a malfunction of any kind. I have much more expensive guns with better trigger pulls and nicer finishes but none can be said to be more reliable. I trust the Sigmas explicitly which is more than I can say of some of the others. If you feel you need to buy a pistol now for hd and save some money for a 1911 then a Sigma could be a good way to go(gives you a $100+ head start). I have NEVER met a person who OWNS a Sigma which was not dead reliable, not a target shooter but reliable!

October 10, 2007, 10:07 PM
I had one of each generation, I taded the 1st in on the 2nd since it was supposed to be better. Ok it was a better trigger but the thing shot an 8" group at 5yds. That is pathetic. Got a 642 with the trade in.

October 10, 2007, 10:46 PM
If you want the most inexpensive, reliable out of the box gun with the best warranty in the industry I'd say why not! Their two free magazine coupon offer really sweetens the deal.

Sure the trigger is heavy with a long reset, making it a poor choice for trying to shoot them all thru the same hole, or playing speed shooting games, but it goes bang every time which is job one for a defensive handgun. Did I mention the great warranty and if you have a problem S&W will fix it with you only being out of pocket your time to box it up and drop it off at the nearest FedEx.

You can easily spend more and get less in a gun for defense.


October 10, 2007, 11:17 PM
My sister won a 9ve two weeks ago at a Gunbash. She asked me (the Gun Guy in the family) to check it out and make sure it worked.

Put 100rnds quickly through it without a glitch. The trigger WAS pretty heavy and crunchy at first, but really smoothed out once I cleaned and lubed it. Still heavy but actually pretty short and smooth.

I would opine that someone who got a new Sigma and worked to actually learn how to shoot it would be a much better shot than someone who can only shoot a 4lb glass rod 1911.

If you can shoot a Sigma well, you can shoot anything you pick up decently. I wouldn't discount them totally until giving one a try.

October 10, 2007, 11:27 PM
Better a Sigma than a High Point.

October 10, 2007, 11:33 PM
I traded for a newer model sigma 40 recently. Yes the trigger is heavy, but the gun is absolutely reliable with everything I have been able to put thru it. 10-12 yard accuracy for me hovers around 3 inches which is more than acceptable for home defense purposes. It is not a range gun for me, but resides in a safe at the office for those instances it might be necessary. I wouldn't drop $400 on one, but if one came up in the $250-$300 range it is worth considering. I have also picked up used CZ75's and XD's in the $300-$350 range and would consider them superior though.

October 11, 2007, 12:00 AM
Reliability is near perfect on new Sigmas. Ergos are great, but I would add that the grip is hard plastic and slick with the least bit of lube smeared on it. Smith could make it better by giving it the M&P grippy coating. Another possible hang-up is the blocky shape of it, but it realy doesn't print any worse than the M&P. It just makes it a bit on the homely side. The only reason I switched top the M&P was the full-supported feed ramp and lighter trigger.

If it's a matter of just getting a carry piece, there's nothing wrong with the Sigma. Inexpensive, reliable, durable, and eats anything. Plus what some consider the best Customer Service in the industry. I also seem to remember the 2 free mag offer was extended again. That's 60-80 bucks worth of mags.

I have a Stoeger Cougar. It's a nice gun. I paid $329+ for it on a whim. Completely reliable so far, but I'm still low in the count. DA trigger is about the same as the Sigma, maybe a touch less. SA trigger is crisp and light. I posted a review of it somewhere here. It's also a bit more concealable than the Sigma due to it's slightly shorted length, lower bore-axis, and rounded edges. It's worth a look if you can find one. Ergos are okay. Plus it's all metal. I don't know if the overall wear/tear survivability is as good as the Sigma, though.

October 11, 2007, 12:50 AM

Seriously man, get a CDNN catalog, then call CDNN and ask about anything that piques your interest. I mean actually call them, on the phone.

2nd generation Glock 19s were going for $339 a couple of months ago.

I have personally purchased an XD40 Tactical for $350, barely used at all.

Yeah I get that whole point that not everyone can afford a brand new XD or whatever, but there are better guns available for that same $350. Go to $400 and your options are even better.

CZ 75, $406 brand new, every day at Academy.

October 11, 2007, 12:53 AM
I called the local range today and they have a Sigma 9ve to rent. The owner (a real arrogant guy who hates anything that isn't a Sig) told me they have a rental one so you can convince yourself to spend more and buy a Sig.

I think for what I want it might be a good choice. I'll be testing it tomorrow or Friday. I'm not looking for a range gun, I'll be saving for one after I get a defense gun.

I am looking for something that goes bang every time and doesn't complain about what I feed it (FMJ or HP) My Star only likes one brand of HP and only really likes 124 grain bullets. I love my star, it's my skinny 9mm 1911 clone, but it is not reliable, of course it's 64 years old and spent most of that time behind the Iron Curtain so it is reliable for a pistol of that age and condition.

October 11, 2007, 12:57 AM
no save your money get something else.

October 11, 2007, 01:09 AM
I don't know where people get these super-low prices on Glocks, M&P's etc. And the Sigma new runs about $370.00 out here. A Glock is at least $550.00, the M&P is at least over $500.00.

I own a Sigma in 40. It is totally reliable, and I paid $319.99 for it on sale. The trigger has gone through a lot of dry-firing and I have shot about 600 rounds through the gun. The gun is better than new because the trigger has been broken in. You don't even have to clean or lube it. Trigger is a lot better now. The only concern I have is with the muzzle flip on the 40. Since purchasing it, I obtained a CZ-75B in 40, the Sigma was purchased before because that is what I could afford at the time. CZ is a better range pistol. Buy what you can afford. If you want a cheap self-defense weapon in 9, get the SW9VE. I bet muzzle flip isn't as pronounced as in the 40. I was even thinking about getting one in 9, myself, but I'm getting a new Taurus Stainless 92 because I want a better target pistol. Contrary to what others have said about looks of the Sigma, I think it's quite appealing. It's a lot of fun to shoot and it will not let you down. I'm not aware of ejection, extraction, type problems. Plus there's a lifetime warranty from Smith, and I believe they are now offering two extra mags for a total of four. This newest offer of additional mags went into effect on Oct 1.

But if you can afford more, go for it. But the Sigma is a good value. And it fits my hand better than any other handgun. It points well, too.

October 11, 2007, 01:14 AM
I have and use a 40VE (3rd Gen) as my HD gun with a light on it. It is dead reliable with 4k+ rounds, great ergonomics and 15+1 or 14+1 mags in a full size gun. I trust it completely.

Other good options are:

Stoeger Cougar

Choose one that feels right in your hands, points naturally and is reliable.

October 11, 2007, 01:16 AM
I don't know where people get these super-low prices on Glocks, M&P's etc. And the Sigma new runs about $370.00 out here. A Glock is at least $550.00, the M&P is at least $479.

Internet. Buying used.

October 11, 2007, 02:08 AM
I wouldn't buy the Sigma if you haven't shot it, IMO. If you shoot it and you like it, and he'll sell it to you for $269 + tax, then consider it. I would not pay $300+ for that gun, just knowing it can be gotten for less.

If you're in the $400 range, try an M&P. Similar to the Sigma, more balanced in my opinion, comes w/ optional S/M/L backstraps to fit your hand, comes in both standard and compact options, that compact would probably be more concealable than the Sigma, and feel/shoot better. The M&P will hold it's value better. It has more accessories available for it, is better built and has a better trigger.

My local shops charge too much too. They wanted almost $400 for a sigma, and $550 for an M&P. But I saw better prices at gun shows and online. For some reason, it seems some shops have better prices than others on certain guns. This place, Bud's Gun Shop, typically has good deals on S&W stuff. They were selling the Sigmas for $270 at one time, and the M&Ps for $399 or less at one time.

Right now, on those two pages I sent, either a 9MM or a .40 are selling starting as low as:

Sigma $317 DELIVERED

(no tax on the Internet sale)

If your gun shop has a crazy FFL fee, find a pawn shop that will do a transfer for $20 or less. In my area, I heard transfer fees between $30-$70, then I found 2 pawn shops that would do it for $25, and an FFL that did training but not yet had a store, did it for $20.

Do your own research, there's lots of shops out there, but at these real quoted prices, you could have a NIB M&P for $459 OTD after delivery and FFL transfer, or that Sigma for $337 OTD

Now if you add Night Sights, or some other mod, then the price goes up.

Someone also mentioned Glocks, and the abundance of used or reconditioned Glocks, at places like CDNN Investments, or another popular glock source is Summit Gun Broker where you can see they have used/rebuilt various models starting at $400 for regular sights, or he was selling NIB G19s for $459 + shipping, still get OTD for less than $500

I personally liked the M&P a lot. For some reason, I shot the Gloick better at the range, and bought a Glock 19. In case your interested, the size from biggest to smallest of these, say in 9MM is

Glock 17 9MM (standard frame)
M&P 9 (standard frame)
Glock 19 9mm (this is there compact frame model)
M&PC 9 (compact frame)
Glock 26 9 MM (sub compact frame)

So, the G19 is a little smaller and concealable than the M&P, then the M&PC is a little smaller than the 19, w/ the G26 being the smallest.

I think the G19 or the M&PC are the best all around size, big enough to hold, small enough to conceal, YMMV

I chose the Glock coz it shot better for ME, and more accessories available at the time, including 33rd magazines as a standard option :)

Good luck


October 11, 2007, 03:43 AM
Do I want a Smith and Wesson Sigma?No.

Wayne G.
October 11, 2007, 08:57 AM
Sigma triggers suck compared to other comparable designs like glock, xd, and m&p.

Do I want one? NO WAY. Do YOU want one? Totally personal preference. Baskin-Robbins has 31 flavors for a reason.

October 11, 2007, 09:05 AM
kungfuhippie -

Where do you live in Cali? Are you in SoCal? If so, go down to your closest Turner's and pick up a blingin PT92.. Much cooler than a Sigma :)

October 11, 2007, 09:14 AM
I have a Sigma 40, and it has been reliable through 4k rounds or so to date.
As already stated, the trigger was a bit rough initially, but has smoothed out nicely.

It's not my go to gun, but I would not hesitate to make it so if it were my only option. I used it as a primary handgun down in New Orleans after Katrina.

Bottom line: Test drive it as you plan, if you like it, then go for it.

October 11, 2007, 09:23 AM
I don't know where people get these super-low prices on Glocks, M&P's etc. And the Sigma new runs about $370.00 out here. A Glock is at least $550.00, the M&P is at least $479.

Buying used.

Gun shows too. New Sigmas are generally $290-$300, sometimes $280 at the larger shows here. M&P models run $100-$200 more depending on the caliber and if it has the mag disconnect or not and the external safety or not.

I like my Sigma for what it is, an inexpensive, reliable firearm. But if you want a gun good for both defense and range games I'd save up and get something else.

I prefer gun shows to Internet buying so I can see what I'm actually getting. I can usually match or beat the internet price + shipping + transfer fee at larger gun shows around here. BUT it definitely pays to check internet prices on what I'm interested in before going to the gun show, as for every good deal at a gun show there are usually three or four bad ones.


October 11, 2007, 09:30 AM
I've been tempted to buy a Sigma based on all the bashing I've seen on the internet. I saw the same thing about Hi-Point. People who don't have one hate them. People who actually own one like them. My Hi-Point has run like a watch.

I've never fired a Sigma, but I have dry fired them. For all the talk about how bad the trigger is, the ones I've handed were no where near as heavy/long as my Kel-Tec, P-11, and the P-11 smoothed up a lot after a few hundred rounds.

If I find a Sigma in 9mm, one day when I have the money, I might get it.

October 11, 2007, 09:50 AM
I've been tempted to buy a Sigma based on all the bashing I've seen on the internet.

Basically what I did, the two free mag offer sealed the deal. Actually shooting it far exceeded my expectations. But clearly the trigger is the worse thing about the gun. Sights and ergos are very good.

Do understand that they had problems initially, but then so has the M&P, but with S&W's outstanding warranty you are out only the inconvience of sending it back, won't cost you a penny extra for them to make it right should you get a bad one.

Few other makers match this unless you spend a long time on the phone trying to somehow reach the "right" person -- eventually if you are a big enough PITA to them they might agree to pay shipping to get rid of you :)

I sent S&W an Email when my M22A broke, they replied with the FedEx return number and instructions on where to send it. That's support!


October 11, 2007, 10:51 AM
I've come close to picking one up many times. They simply feel great, and the trigger is no worse than most wheelguns (save for a tuned S&W), and worlds better than the DA pull of the USP triggers I've felt...

Granted, I do have glocks and CZs instead, but I wouldn't discount the SW9VE based on internet opinions of the early models.

October 11, 2007, 12:23 PM
Well this is fun to read. It seems like all things firearm related it is a love/hate with little middle ground thing.

The thing I must reiterate is that I want a gun that will go bang ever time for home defense. Not for CCW and not for target shooting. It's so when something goes bump in the night my gun goes bang and not click. Or for when someone decides to invade my home. Or when I'm out in the desert exploring old ghost towns and some meth-head gets the idea of stealing my truck. I agree that I need to test one before I buy (just like any large purchase-car, TV, computer, etc.)
I'd get that Taurus 92, but I really didn't like how it shoots, like I said a while back in this thread. I sure wish my local gun shop stayed open late.

October 11, 2007, 12:55 PM
I would recommend either a Keltec P-11 or a PF-9. Don't know anything personally about the Sigma.

October 11, 2007, 01:59 PM
my sigma goes bang everytime, and my groups are 3" at 20 yards. 'nuff said.

October 11, 2007, 02:25 PM
I owned a SW9VE for a few years and admit it's a good self-defense handgun. Never once did it misfire on me. Shortly after purchasing the weapon, I ended up buying a stainless Springco recoil reducer (in retrospect, I don't know why, it was a $80 part for a $350 gun), and it noticeably improved the recoil.

Still, it wasn't very accurate, even at 20 feet. It was however, very light and very ergonomic. In the end though, it just felt too cheap for me to want to hang on to it. I ended up replacing it with a S&W PPK/S, which is smaller but a LOT heavier and with a Beretta M9, which is larger and heavier still. Suffice it to say, I'm now poorer, but happier.

I wouldn't say DON'T buy it, since it's a reliable, lightweight weapon that carries a LOT of ammo, and it makes for a good SD and even CC gun. Also, you can't beat S&W's lifetime warranty. What I WOULD say is to try out the many offerings that are only $100 more before settling on it.

And oh, if you decide to get it and you want to upgrade with a recoil reducer, shoot me a message, cause I'll give you a helluva deal on one. :evil:

October 11, 2007, 02:44 PM
I don't own a Sigma, but I did shoot one (9mm) at a range not long ago. The trigger pull was kinda heavy, but I found it extremely easy to shoot accurately. The trigger did not cause me to pull my shots right or left and rapid aimed shots were no problem. I'd say if you try one and find it fits your hand comfortably and you can deal with the trigger then get one.

On the other hand, if this gun is to be for home defense and field carry then why not get a full-size pistol in .45ACP? Is there some reason why you think a 1911 won't make a good, practical HD weapon? I own a S&W 1911 and my wife has a S&W 457 (.45ACP DAO) and I consider them both practical for HD and SD purposes.

October 11, 2007, 04:45 PM
I like the 1911. Want one, and would be fine with one for HD. But I like having more capacity than a 7rd magazine and honestly I don't like the grip safety. My Star does not have a grip safety. I know I can get the grip safety pinned but that would probably make the gun become a range only gun for me. I like the idea of getting something in .40s&w for the added capacity (10 rds. now, 14+ when I move) and I like how .40s&w shoots. I also want a DA trigger for a HD gun if I can get it, I know accuracy will suffer but few steps involved in a self defense situation sounds good to me.

October 11, 2007, 05:45 PM
My SW9VE pistols have been 100% reliable. Several of my friends have purchased Sigmas after handling mine. When they first came out I bought a
9F, and one of the .380 Sigmas. They both were junk. The SW9VE, and
40VE, are much better guns than the original Sigmas. Check with S&W about a couple of free magazines with the purchase of a new Sigma. They were running the offer last time I checked their website.

Jeff Timm
October 11, 2007, 06:01 PM
The Sigma is the lowest common denominator of pistols. The equivilent of the S&W Model 10. A good basic gun for security guards. My wife liked the grip and when the gun went on sale I bought it, put 250 rounds through it without a problem.

My wife can rip the center out of a silhouette target at seven yards. That's all she wants.

Who prefers the S&W M&P 9c. :D

October 11, 2007, 06:04 PM
Definitely look at the CZ's .. I would stay FAR away from the Sigma's

October 11, 2007, 07:27 PM about the Taurus 24/7. I have never even held one, but am looking into them, as I am also looking for an inexpensive hi-cap 9mm.
They have a rail, and it is a standard rail, rather than the proprietary one on the Sigma, 15 round.
I've heard very good things as well.

October 11, 2007, 09:42 PM
this friend of mine is always doing a lot of gun tradin'. he keeps me green with envy with the guns he shows up with. then i think he has flipped is lid when he trades off or sells a real keeper.

anyway.....he shows up with a sigma. it was one of the funny colored ones, with the 'ladysmith gray' frame and stainless looking slide. well, my first opinion wasn't all that favorable. that is 'till i started shooting it. i do the lion's share of my handgun shooting at 7 to 15 yards. the sigma was a real shooter!!! i warmed up to it quick, felt real good in the hand. pointed well and it was derned accurate. it never failed to function, even with lead reloads. i was tempted to make him an offer, but i really did not need it.

i do not know if his sigma was better than most, but if it is a normal speciman, you could do a heckva lot worse than a sigma.

October 11, 2007, 09:54 PM
Some folks have suggested their favorites such as CZ, Kel-Tec and Taurus 24/7. The CZ is a great pistol and super accurate but real world prices are about $100 dollars more than the Sigma. At that price you can get some much better autos, of which the Beretta PX4 is my current favorite($420). I am no gun snob by any means, I have a Kel-Tec P-11 and love it. It however, is my third one and the first to be 100% reliable. I have shot the 24/7 but don't own one, on reputation alone and customer service to boot, I would stick with the Sigma. Taurus has come a LONG way, but still has a ways to go.

October 11, 2007, 10:55 PM
I own 2 of them both in 40 S&W, buy it go to wally world and buy 500 rounds of ammo and shoot it all through, clean and lube before, halfway through, and after you finish, the trigger smooths out as mush as you can expect from a DAO. My wife is also deadly accurate with it. I bought them for an inexpensive SD BOB gun, they are loaded with 4 mags each and a extra 50 rounds, locked in a case that is ready for me/us to grab at a moments notice. Got mine before the price increase, paid 289 each for mine, they are now 329.99 still not bad for a reliable firearm.

I wished I had the one I bought and then sold because I listened to the arm chair quarterbacks telling me how bad of a gun they were. Then I'd have 3 of them, actually thought about getting another but when I went in looking at them my gun dealer says "I have something to show you", that ALWAYS costs me money, had a 92FS Police Special Beretta brand new sealed in the box so no one has touched it except the man. I know it's not a "collectors item" but I've always wanted a "police special" 92fs so now I have one.

October 11, 2007, 11:02 PM
If you really want something that will go bang EVERY time, you might consider a revolver. I personally prefer having a few more rounds at my disposal, but reliability and shootability are primary considerations. ruger sp101 357's or 38's are going for $350-400 online, and Taurus revolvers aren't a bad product either, anymore. just a thought.

I also own a CZ "clone" (witness 10mm) and am looking at the cz 2075 RAMI as a concealed carry gun. my experience with the witness has been nothing but pleasurable.

loose cannon
October 11, 2007, 11:28 PM
try all the ones the posters b4 put forth,,,,

buy the one that works best in YOUR hand if it costs a few bucks more save more then get it.

handguns are very much personal preference weapons.

ignore the fanboy drivel.

October 11, 2007, 11:44 PM
I've thought about a revolver but have very little experience with them so I don't want to get one for HD and decide I don't like shoot revolvers...
I'll get one later on, just not a priority right now.

Crystal River Charlie
October 12, 2007, 01:49 PM
I wonder if all of the negative posters have even realy fired one let
alone owned one.
Buy one. Put 500 rounds through it . Trigger gets better. And it hits
minute of human at reasonable ranges. Thats what it was made for.
And yes I own two. Bought them at Cabela's Kansas City for $259.00
each and got the free extra mags.
C R Charlie

October 12, 2007, 02:27 PM
I have fired one that a friend had. It is a .40 VE and is a very reliable pistol. To me it was more controlable than the Ruger P95.

I think for the most part people are still holding to the bad publicity S&W got for making a "Glock Clone". And, all the problems that the original Sigma's had. A lot of guns have problems when they are first introduced until the kinks get worked out.

You don't see as much negativity about them. To me, the Sigma is a whole lot better feeling than a Glock and you can get one for a whole lot less money. And, they look a whole lot better for whatever that's worth.

October 12, 2007, 03:39 PM
I always take a moment to steer people away from Sigmas.

It's the only handgun I ever regretted buying. The front sight fell out, it wouldn't feed hollow-points, and I was young and stupid and didn't realize what "LE-style 12lb trigger" means.

There are too many good handguns out there to waste any time on one that is the least bit iffy. The M&P might be the best thing to come around in 10 years, but it's still at the bottom of my list. How many chances does S&W deserve to get it right?

October 12, 2007, 06:01 PM
Went to the range today on my way home. I rented a 9mm sigma (they didn't have one in .40), a MP in 40, a Ruger P89, a glock 17, a HK USP 40, and a Taurus 24/7 in .40 I took a friend and we split the rental cost so it wasn't too bad.
We shot sillouettes at 7 yards using reloads that the range makes you use on their rentals-I don't like their reloads, they are dirty and inconsistent compared to WWB:what:

the results:
The MP, Sigma, P89 and 24/7 fit my hand well
The Hk usp 40 and glock we not a good fit for me.

I know they're range guns so the get a lot of use with little attention, but the 24/7 and the P89 both had FTF, a quick tap or pull of the slide solved every instance. The all shot fine besides the feeding issues mentioned above. The all seemed to be easy to work for a left handed person, minus some decocker issues due to my lack of familiarity with the gun, if I bought it and shot it I'd be fine using it)

Each gun for a test shot 20 rds at 7 yards offhand, weaver stance. The glock and Hk got scratched off the list quickly. The HK was a very sharp recoil and didn't fit my hand. I was unable to shoot well with it. The glock didn't fit my hand well and the trigger safety bugged me, I also wasn't aiming it well. At this point I was thinking about getting a 1911 instead since they fit my hand well. Next was the Ruger p89, I was able to shot it well and hit COM well, it was easy to operate for me. It did have a bit of muzzle flip compared to the glock, yet I was able to shoot it better minus the couple FTF (I am taking that into consideration though). The 24/7 shot very well, the trigger pull was smooth and it aimed well for me, just had a few FTF-I may have limp wristed it. The I got to the S&W MP, I wanted to save the Sigma for last so that I'd see a difference. The Mp fit me well, had a very good trigger and shot where I aimed. It had no issues like the 24/7 or P89 and it grouped well for a worn out range gun (I am not too worried about grouping since the RO's method of cleaning his rentals involves a boresnake and a rag "unless it's really messy". The MP was at this point the victor with the Ruger and 24/7 only falling behind due to their FTF issues.

The Sigma, it fit my hand well, as it did in the store, and it was almost the same feeling as the MP. The trigger was smooth and HEAVY I shot it as well as the MP but I could tell a difference with the trigger (good thing since there is a $100+ price difference) After the 20 rds. I finished off the box of 9mm between it and my Star B. I aimed most of these guns faster than my old star. I tried a little double tapping since the RO lets you, if he knows you:rolleyes: I could get follow up shots off faster and more accuratly with the Sigma than with my Star. I bought some more .40 to play with the MP some more. I like them both. they are both quicker to aim and shoot than my star (that just baffled me, except the sights are much better on them) My buddy is now looking to get a Glock and hates the 24/7 both S&Ws and Ruger...they are "uncomfortable" to shoot.

So now that I've shot both (50-70 rds in each one) I've decided I like both. I'm going to now spend some time reflecting on the trigger. The difference isn't that much to me but I do notice it. So for now I'll just keep saving and by the time I decide I may have enough for an MP anyway.

October 12, 2007, 06:12 PM
awful trigger; poor workmanship; had to price it way low on Gunbroker to get anyone to buy it.

October 12, 2007, 06:18 PM
I own a 9ve, flawless in performance!!
Not the prettiest and not the best all around firearm but for what I paid, plus the 2 free mags from S&W its a deal!!

My 9ve will shoot anything put through it, the trigger pull isnt as bad as it seems, and at $300 with 4 high cap mags-you cant go wrong!!

October 12, 2007, 06:57 PM
There's more BS about the Sigma than almost any gun other than the Mini-14.
They are reliable, comfortable and inexpensive. It ain't a bullseye gun. For HD it is a very capable firearm. If you're new to handgunning I'd get the 9mm. The 40 is not very controllable in the Sigma.
I own a Sigma 40v and a M&P 9mm. I've had one FTF with the M&P when it was brand new. The Sigma has had a zero failure rate and it has fired a lot more rounds than the M&P.
Sigma is good value for the money.

JP from Phoenix
October 12, 2007, 07:03 PM
If i was to get a gun along those guidelines I'd get a taurus 24/7 over the sigma. About the same price and a way better gun. Either that or i'd save the cash and get the 1911 you wanted in the first place

October 12, 2007, 07:13 PM
Kung-fu, you did the right thing on the rental method. If you're mostly looking for a carry piece, you might consider the Sigma more than the M&P. Some like the stiffer trigger to guard against ND a little better. The M&P trigger isn't exactly a hair trigger, though. I'd feel comfortable carrying either in a good holster. The nice thing about the Sigma is that it'll fit almost any Glock holster.

The issue you had with the Fail to feeds in the two pistols is likely the ammo. IF the OAL is slightly long they can jam like that. Happens with my reloads every now and then.

If you're looking to reload at any point (something of a cost saver on 40cal) spend the extra money and get the M&P. It doesn't abuse the brass as much and functions on relatively soft loads. Incidently, the Sigma's grip angle was carried over to the M&P. Whatever their hang-ups were on the Sigma, the ergos were great.

Sounds, like you're narrowing it down. I'm sure youll be happy with whatever you get.

October 12, 2007, 09:02 PM
no, my first experience with poly guns was the sigma, i was not impressed with it then, and still not to impressed now. the triggers are horrible, that is one thing, they are reliable though that is for sure, there is much better out there in my opinion that will cost you only a little more, that i think you would be much happier with.

October 13, 2007, 08:08 PM
+ a WHOLE bunch on the M&P over the Sigma.

For inexpensive HD, I've had a Rossi .357 snub (and will have another).

The M&P9 (with 147gr hydrashocks) is ideal IMHO - heavy 9mm that actually expand and 17 rounds.


Tropical Z
October 14, 2007, 01:26 PM
95% of these naysayers are jumping on the "don't do it" bandwagon because of things they've heard.They're wrong,and I'd bet that the vast majority have never held let alone shoot a new SW9VE ( I own one) and are therefore unqualified to offer an honest opinion.The SW9/40VE is quite possibly the best value out there in a semi-auto handgun.

October 14, 2007, 01:50 PM
My best friend has one in .40 and I shoot it probably every other time we go to the gun club (about once a week). I would never hunt anything with it, it is terrible for target shooting anything less than mansize past 25 yards, and it has a heavy trigger. It also has never jammed, shoots to point of aim, and loaded with Remington Gold Sabers leaves nasty holes (box of wet newspaper test). Considering that most self defense shootings happen at ten yards or less and across the room distances, I feel that it does exactly what it is made to do. It is a reliable and simple DA only autoloading pistol made with self defense in mind. It works great, anyone can be taught to use it, and the heavy trigger is there because it is the only safety you get other than the one between your ears. Does it shoot 1" groups at 50 yards?, Does it feel like a piece of art in your hand?, If someone broke in with evil intent at dark:30 would I trust my life to it to be able to function properly?...YES.

October 14, 2007, 08:43 PM
Yes IF you want the best bargain out there with the factory support and the extra mags for a low dollar dependable gun that will go bang every time with whatever you feed it. I won't part with mine even if I have better ones.

October 14, 2007, 11:03 PM
I have had several, and still have 2. I even had one of the early ones. 100% reliability with all of them. The trigger is stiff, but I'm actually quite accurate with the ones I have. I think they are quite a bargain. I would just recommend that you try one first, but that really applies to any handgun purchase.

October 15, 2007, 12:57 AM
I have a SW40G, bought it used - hardly ever shot until bought it. It is a heavy trigger but smoothing out, it's eaten everything I've fed it and only experienced a couple jams after 300 rounds of really dirty reloads.

Sigmas got a bad rep from the early models and some folks here are really unforgiving.

October 15, 2007, 05:45 AM
I have one of the very early Sigma's I bought from a buddy for $100.00. He hated it after taking it to the range and went and bought a Glock, which is what he really wanted in the first place. It sat in his closet for well over 10 years before I saved it. His lose my gain. Me and my friend sat there watching tv for a couple hours and took turns pulling the trigger racking the slide pulling the trigger racking the slide pulling well you get the point, after pulling the trigger about 1000 times and putting a few thousand rounds through it over the last year I would say it has a very smooth and not very heavy trigger pull now. It wasnt really that bad when I got it but it smoothed out and lightened up alot after a few thousand pulls. It has never jammed on me and it shoots anything I feed it. I really dig these Sigma pistols and Im in the process of trying to rescue some from owners who hate them and will let them go for a good price.

October 15, 2007, 08:34 AM
damn, that is nice lookin'......maybe i'll paint my frame.

October 15, 2007, 02:56 PM
im thinking of getting one and torture testing it figure get one, plus the 2 free mags. then 2 more. me and 4 friends taking turns shooting and loading mags of cheap 9mm. wolf, SB, WWB see how long it goes till it crashes (after break in period)

nothing but a little oil and making sure we dont heat the chamber enough to cook off rounds.

October 15, 2007, 03:47 PM
im thinking of getting one and torture testing

Won't take long to have spent more on the ammo shot thru it than you did on the gun!


Jeff Timm
October 15, 2007, 06:37 PM
When it comes to 9mm pistols in the Sigma's price range, around $299 on sale, there is only a short list.

The Sigma,
The Ruger P series,
The Stoeger Cougar
The Taurus P111

The only metal framed gun is the Stoeger Cougar formerly the Beretta.

Who wishes he could afford a comparison test. :banghead:

October 15, 2007, 06:49 PM
Won't take long to have spent more on the ammo shot thru it than you did on the gun!

well thats the point.

if the guns as bad as alot of people claime, it will break down well before i shoot off 300$ worth of ammo.

if i manage to shoot a good amount before she fails then id call that a high price/reliabilty ratio

obv my funding wouldnt allow me to perform a large test like a manufacter could but it would give me an excuse to buy a gun and shoot the crap out of it.

October 15, 2007, 07:43 PM
The .40 Sigma was my first handgun. I bought it beacuse the price was great and it looks awesome on paper. I had shot a usp .45,a .380 ppk, and a star police .45 before that, and i was horrified by my accuracy. I sold it for as much as I could and got a 2005 Springfield 1911 Gi model for 450$ and i never looked back.

October 15, 2007, 09:27 PM
I went through 500 rounds in a little less then 45 minutes a few range trips back with that 15 year old Sigma and it was hot as hell but it never stopped. I normally try to put about 200-300 rounds through it each trip and with well over 3000 rounds in a year it has not once given me a problem. I have 2 16 rounds mags for it and 4 17 rounds mags

October 16, 2007, 08:06 AM
I enjoyed reading everyone's postings regarding the Sigma...I own a 40ve and love the gun. The trigger is heavier than more expensive models of guns, a few of which I own as well. The Sigma has NEVER jammed on me (no FTF or FTE). I bought it as my first semi-auto in Orlando, FL for around $300, and it now resides in my vehicle (thanks to a CCW).

One thought that my grandfather was adamant about...if you want a home defense weapon, nothing beats the price or reliability of sawed-off pump action 12 gauge. I believe legal limit from the bolt face is 18" (verified by a local gunsmith and Gander Mt products). Sure it's not as convenient as a handgun mobility wise, but imagine waking in the middle of the night from a deep slumber after hearing something strange. It's dark, you aren't going to turn lights on, you don't know where the perp is exactly so why consider aiming precisely with a Sigma (or any handgun for that matter)? After your shot, spackle the extra holes, repaint and rest assured that your few hundred bucks has bought the most effective cost-to-benefit weapon ever made for HD...the good 'ole 12 gauge.

I'll be the first to say I love handguns, but for HD...shortened shotguns are it for me. Mine is sort of tactical...mossberg synthetic, all black, legally adjusted barrel. Sigma is cool for the price, and the trigger will improve, but it is heavy. It took me awhile to hit the 3" groups as heavy trigger pull led to changes in my aim just prior to firing. Good luck...

October 16, 2007, 01:36 PM
agreed....a pitbull and a mossie five is the best insurance against home invasions.

October 16, 2007, 07:38 PM
No !:evil:

October 16, 2007, 08:10 PM
Thanks everyone for the input.
Well, to disappoint many of you; The Sigma goes on sale (Both .40 and 9mm same price) locally in two days and I plan to get one unless they are putting the M&P up on sale too and I missed it. I appreciated all the input, but in the end shooting one next to an M&P I realized that for what I want it for the heavier trigger is not an issue and may be a benefit. I will have money still in the 1911 jar (maybe I should change it's name) and am selling a few rifles locally that I never shoot. So, I will end up with a nice HD pistol and probably by Christmas a 1911 (or something else) that I'll use mostly for range trips.

October 16, 2007, 08:37 PM
Polish your slide and it will look like this.

October 16, 2007, 08:45 PM
I was thinking about duracoating the slide black...but I won't know until I've owned it a while and shot it a lot.

October 16, 2007, 08:46 PM

October 16, 2007, 08:47 PM
That does look nice...

October 16, 2007, 11:21 PM
What did you use to polish it?

October 17, 2007, 07:38 AM
im thinking of getting one and torture testing

Won't take long to have spent more on the ammo shot thru it than you did on the gun!


So? What would be the problem with that? I've spent more on ammo than I did for the gun itself on a lot of guns.

October 17, 2007, 08:56 AM
What made you think I'd suggested it was a problem? Its a feature, not a bug :)

I'd suggest a good figure of merit for a gun's "quality" might be cost of ammo shot until a problem, divided by the cost of the gun :)


October 17, 2007, 02:18 PM
Biggest piece of junk S&W ever sold...can't believe they still polute their product line with it. I asked their rep once last year why they still sell them...he said "well...they are so cheap -we sell a lot of them every year so why stop"

We don't take them in trade make lones on them or sell them...when a pawnshop refuses to carry them -well...Jennings bryco loricin Hi-point davis ect...those are some of the others that share the banned staus...I guess you could say it's the nicest piece of junk on the list of junk we don't carry or mess with-LOL

April 27, 2008, 02:34 PM
Value wise it is worthless, I had one , it shot ok , once you got past the 2 inch trigger pull. At best i would put it in a box and burry it in my back yard for an End of the world issue, or use it for a paper weight.

April 27, 2008, 04:08 PM
If you can help it, my answer would be "no." There's better stuff out there in that price range that can do the same thing.

Kilted Cossack
April 27, 2008, 05:23 PM
Wow. Where's the love for the Sigma? Way back in the day when they first came out, I bought one with four 15 round magazines (and this was in California, to boot!), found the trigger a bit heavy and recoil a bit brisk, and traded it for . . . hmm, some other gun.

Since then I have shot a lot of revolvers double action, and recently picked up a pair of SW9VEs. (Spelled SW9VE but still, to me, pronounced Sigma. Have you tried to pronounce SW9VE?)

The trigger is still pretty heavy, but if you shoot it like a double action revolver (i.e., "roll on through") instead of a 1911 (find the break, wait, press) it's not bad at all, and 200 rounds in (and lubed) it's already smoothing out. I put all 200 rounds, alternating strong hand/weak hand by magazine, offhand, into an 8" pie plate at 7 yards. (With some yanks, I admit!) Some of them were me, some of them were getting used to the trigger, but MOST of the rounds went into about four inches at that distance.

It's not the same gun it used to be. S&W had some problems with the first run, but they worked away at it and fixed it. Is it the world's best pistol? No, I wouldn't say that, but it's American made, dirt cheap, backed by S&W's customer service. I don't have my rebate or free magazines yet, but when all is said and done I'll have spent $640 for 2 Sigmas and 8 magazines.

Plus it's the pistol we're providing to the Afghan National Police, and that's just how I like to roll----AFGHAN STYLE!

April 27, 2008, 05:37 PM
in your price range, you can have an FN FNP-9 or FNP-40.

April 27, 2008, 06:21 PM
Sigma was a typo, It's really called the Stigma.

April 27, 2008, 07:12 PM
This is a very dated thread - I'm sure by now the OP has both his Sigma and a 1911.

But I did notice that those who don't have a Sigma really don't like them - based on what, I have no clue. Those of us who do have a Sigma really like them.

I've had mine for about 2 years. It shoots flawlessly and about 3 inch groups at 15 yards; definitely good enough for a self-defense gun.

For those of us who are not avid competitive shooters, a longer trigger pull is not such a bad thing; it makes the gun a little more safer in our less-experienced hands. The trigger works about like all my other handguns - every time I pull it, the gun goes bang. One pull, one bang. And it only takes a split second to make it go bang.

So where's the problem with the trigger? I don't see it. I suppose I never notice the trigger pull because I don't have an IPSC-ready race gun in 1911 to compare it to.

April 27, 2008, 07:16 PM
By the way, about your signature line:

"The true [American] revolution was not to defy one earthly power, but to declare principles that stand above every earthly power—the equality of each person before God, and the responsibility of government to secure the rights of all."
-George W. Bush, September 13th 2003

That's a bunch of crap. The revolution established the rights in spite of government and established only that the government could not infringe those rights, not that government was the guarantor of those rights.

April 27, 2008, 07:18 PM
'do I want a sigma?'

No, they aren't worth it. Most any other gun in the price range you listed($400) is gonna be better. In that range you are looking at(if only new guns are considered) taurus pistols/revolvers or the sigma. I would go with the taurus over the SWOCK any day of the week.

April 27, 2008, 07:20 PM
and why was such an old thread bumped from the dead? :uhoh:

May 24, 2008, 10:48 AM
Ok, so I'm new to the sport so please bear with me here. The 9mm is the first handgun I've owned and only the second I've fired. I went down to the range yesterday with the Sigma for the 1st time. With almost 200 rounds fired (poorly-I definately need plenty of practice) I experienced about 6 ftf and 2 fte (Magtech coated ammo). At first I thought it was me, the new shooter. Maybe I was "limp-wristing" it or something, but I had no such issues when firing my coworkers Glock 23, and that's a .40. I am going to strip it down, clean it, oil it and maybe try some different ammo, but I can't help wondering if I made a $300 mistake by buying the gun! Any suggestions?

May 24, 2008, 12:22 PM
Oh yeah, my slide only locks back on an empty mag about 4 out of 5 times. Any ideas?

May 24, 2008, 06:36 PM
Not unless it looks like...

May 24, 2008, 07:15 PM
weak ammo can cause the slide to not lock back. try some hotter ammo :) with Monarch ammo my SW9VE does not lock on empty ever, but it works fine with WWB.

Sato Ord
May 25, 2008, 10:40 AM
Old thread I know, but here goes anyway.

I am certainly not a novice shooter. I bought a 40VE about two months ago. Been a 1911 fanatic for years.

The Sigma is a great reliable firearm that has acted like a bull dog and eaten everything I've thrown in it's dish. At ten to fifteen yards I can do accurate double taps all day long. I can empty fifteen into a target at those ranges quickly, and easily cover the group with the palm of my hand.

Can I drive nails at twenty-five to fifty yards? No, I haven't tried. That's not what this pistol is made for, and it's not what I bought it for.

I bought the weapon because it is a good reliable piece that I can carry. It will get the job done. It is inexpensive enough that if I lose it to some LE evidence room after I've used it to save my life I am not out the price of a fully re-worked .45.

I am as willing to trust my life to this weapon as I have been to any other firearm I've ever owned.

Would I buy another? Probably not as long as I have the one I have; there's simply no need for me to own two of them, but I definitely don't regret buying this one.

Oh yeah, if the trigger pull is too much for you, I suggest you work on those weak wrist muscles or something. Twelve and half pounds is a lot, but it's quite doable.

May 25, 2008, 12:26 PM
Ditto FIERO... bought a COUGER for $325, heard alot of positives about it (and the direct Beretta relationship/history a plus)... to ME, looks good, fits my hand perfect, nice all-metal feel (have 3 CZs), very accurate shoot, breakdown/cleanup 'OK' with the funky rotary barrel... with 500+rnds, ZERO problems, NOT ONE!... All-in-all, a 'Super' gun for the $$ and worth every cent! Not too keen on 'polymers' especially 'strikers', so this was an inexpensive 'natural.' Have shot 300+ thru the 9mm SIGMA (a friend's)... OK, but for me, trigger pull was real hard and ackward and just didn't like the feel!... Mechanically, don't think you'd ever go wrong with a S&W... but would BUY a M&P 100x before the Sigma! First 'poly-9mm' I ever bougth was the FNP-9... A SUPER GUN!!!... Alittle more expensive ($425) but for the money, one of the BEST pistols I have... FLAWLESS, ACCURATE, looks and fit are great (for me)!... Check it out!

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